Note: You must be registered in order to post a reply.
To register, click here. Registration is free.
T O P I C R E V I E W
electrogen
(Disclaimer) i am by no means an expert in the following post but these tips are just some stuff that i have struggled with for over ten years and am now just getting used to. These tips are meant as a guide for you to take as you will. i would suggest you read them a few times over many days if you dont understand them.
EQ;
You shouldnt need to eq at all during tracking. The only exception is filter eq. Everything except the bass elements (Kick, bass And sub elements need a cutoff of at least 100Hz. Hats and cymbals (Trebble Elements) i usually higs pass at 500HZ twice to make sure there are no bottoms. And the sub elements low pass at 100-250HZ to get rid of any lingering high frequencies. this may seem obvious but if you follow tis to the letter you will find your mixes have better clarity. Once tracking is finished and you move to mixing, then you can add creative eq. IE if something isnt fitting then do a sweep and see what is best. you will know when you hit the sweet spot as another instrument will pop out too.
Bass elements need cutting at 40-50Hz too as we rarely hear sub 50hz just adds too much headroom.
i used to peak my subs but not anymore. theres no need if you follow this. trust me.
Tracking;
I only just this week started tracking first. this is where you get the samples and lay them out to make the basic layout using filter eq as you go along.
Mixing;
once tracking is done, wait a few hours and then start listening to your mix element by element and use creative eq to get your sounds how you like them. After all elements are done do it again but this time use corrective eq to make your sounds stand out. If you use a hihat with more tops than mids reduce eq on tops and increase volume to original.
Mastering;
Mastering is overrated. Mastering is a process of getting a track ready for cd or vinyl. making sure that everything has its own place in the mix and stereo field.
mastering isnt essential these days but it does help either way.
tracks from iTunes etc can sound that good before mastering and tracks have never been mastered.
basically you can get a mastered sounding mix without mastering, straight from your daw.
if anyone has any other tips, feel free to share :)
cruelcore1
I would like to add that it is a good idea to use spectrum analyzers, as they will help you with mixing down and EQing. I personally prefer Voxengo SPAN which is free, and it has advanced configuration for the type of equalizer you want.
And do you include Bassdrum in bass elements? Because I wouldn't recommend cutting bassdrums so much. Human hearing can hardly notice frequencies bellow 40Hz, but cutting them still makes important overall difference. If you're producing music such as UK Hardcore or UK Hard Trance, you should avoid cutting low end that much. Just a little, such as setting top frequency of the HP filter to 20Hz can be really useful, but I don't recommend cutting it any more.
electrogen
Yeah spectrum analyzer is good. I use the high res as it shows exact fundamentals. Using these you can tell what has harsh tops or bottoms
electrogen
Also do research! Research what you dont know and review what you do. It sounds wierd but i looked up mixing last week. Learned alit these past few months
DJ_FunDaBounce
quote:Originally posted by electrogen:
Also do research! Research what you dont know and review what you do.
QFT
SmashingTheSirens
I personally think mastering is under rated! But that's just me. Obviously so much has to be right before you get to the mastering stage, but with some nice mastering tools and a little tweaking it can bring so much more out of your track and give it that fullness and energy you just can't get with a mix down :-)
Hard2Get
It's insignificant compared to good music to begin with though.
SmashingTheSirens
I did put that a lot has to be right before you master. I just don't agree with saying its over rated. But I agree that you have to have everything set right and sounding spot on before you get to mastering :-)
electrogen
At the end if the day everything that is done in mastering can be done in mixing down stage. Alot of inside producers see it as a magic pill that turns crap into gold but this isnt so. Like i said in op if you use minimal eq everything sits better. It also has to do with sample selection and sounds but even that doesnt ueally matter as you can layer. As long as you fill the spectrum. If you have a pad made up of a sub layer, low mid and high layer then you are filling the spectrum but there is more to this than just that. The layers them selves have to be at least half full. Then remove what you dont really need but by keeping as much sonic character as possible. Like i also said it is possibke to get tracking mixing and mastering done all At once. Mastering used to be used to allow for vinyl tape and radio playback. In a digital world this isnt an issue. There us one real advatage if mastering from stems though. And that is that you are using stems. If you compress a lead somtimes there is a loud attack at start if leads and high transient samples. Exporting thi as a stem you can then remive the transient and you whld never know the attack was there. Also to compress a channel and then its grup and then it master would be too much. But in stages... Different story
Hard2Get
Edit.
Dys7
The idea behind your producing is to get it sounding as good at possible. Masters are a way to make it sound better. Yes, the mixdown is the ultimate and most important bread and butter, but to not master is pointless as it is indeed a good way to improve the final character of your piece. Not as a golden pill, but as a real tangible improvement to the song.
Im not 100% sure you've heard the difference between a non-mastered and a well mastered version of a song side-by-side, you can really hear the difference. And these are with professional mixdowns.
cruelcore1
Mastering, if well done, improves overall dynamics. It results in compressed envelope keeping qualities of the original, being able to sound louder than unmastered version when pushed to the volume limit. That's why it's important, especially in Hardcore where producers are aiming for a powerful sound.
electrogen
I do agree that mastering is a good thing to do but you can get good release quality material without mastering.
Audio Warfare
"Bass elements need cutting at 40-50Hz too" Wouldn't agree with that myself. A decent club system will certainly hit them frequencies, a mastering engineer will take a bit off the bottom of the overall track if needed. The odd sound will need it if it's got too much presence there but it's not needed most of the time I'd say.
It's good you are trying to help newcomers and all but I think you're trying to hard to work to a rule book, everyone works in different ways. It's fine that you work in this way but you shouldn't lay it out like rules IMO.
Many people do some EQing as they go and that includes professional engineers I've worked with. Mastering is not overrated either, it's essential if you want your track to have power in a club next to all the other super load mastered tracks. A professional master from the right person, with the right tools and mastering environment will really put it a cut above too (provided you have given them a decent mixdown to work with of course).
Sorry, I'm not trying to shoot you down or anything. It's perfectly valid tips if it's written in a "this is how I do it" way. It's just a shame to see so many people working strictly to advice like this they have seen on forums or whatever when really there is near absolute freedom in production.
cruelcore1
quote:Originally posted by electrogen:
I do agree that mastering is a good thing to do but you can get good release quality material without mastering.
That depends on the genre and scene you're aiming at. A UK Hardcore track, for example, definitely should be mastered, and some people even overmaster them to get even louder dynamics.
(by overmastering I mean overcompressing and/or adding much gain on the limiter)
Mortis
quote:Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
"Bass elements need cutting at 40-50Hz too" Wouldn't agree with that myself. A decent club system will certainly hit them frequencies, a mastering engineer will take a bit off the bottom of the overall track if needed. The odd sound will need it if it's got too much presence there but it's not needed most of the time I'd say.
It's good you are trying to help newcomers and all but I think you're trying to hard to work to a rule book, everyone works in different ways. It's fine that you work in this way but you shouldn't lay it out like rules IMO.
Many people do some EQing as they go and that includes professional engineers I've worked with. Mastering is not overrated either, it's essential if you want your track to have power in a club next to all the other super load mastered tracks. A professional master from the right person, with the right tools and mastering environment will really put it a cut above too (provided you have given them a decent mixdown to work with of course).
Sorry, I'm not trying to shoot you down or anything. It's perfectly valid tips if it's written in a "this is how I do it" way. It's just a shame to see so many people working strictly to advice like this they have seen on forums or whatever when really there is near absolute freedom in production.
Well said.
Also, thanks Electrogen for the tips. I'll have a play with some of them when I start mixing down my next track.
electrogen
I never said they were rules. Just some stuff i found out along the way. Many people myself included track and mix together and then master. I used to master my way was to multiband compress and eq the whole mix. But now i know mastering is different. And thats fine im having my track mastered as i type. But if yu ue hig. Quality full rich sounds from the start and this includes keeping as much eq as possible they you dont need to mster ut s much as i originally was led to believe. Basically you can produce a song on thursday and use it in a set on thursday night. There are a few tricks i know to get loud mixes without mastering. Also good mastering relies on excellent mixdowns. But then you can get too excellent an your back to mixing.
I posted on here about that i never knew hiw i got a mix so good without knowing how. The answer was using only filter eq and better understanding of eq and dynamics plugins and reverb etc. also gainstaging but thus is another thing altogether.
No one has to use the tips but if your starting out or if like me been producing for years and still have not good mixes, it cant hurt to try. Also opposite eq helps me.
cruelcore1
I remember when my tracks relied on mastering. And when I started trying to make them sound good without mastering, well, the mastering became a problem in some cases. Some sounds are supposed to keep their spikes, yet mastering can soften those spikes.
electrogen
the spikes or peaks need to be limited as the peaks are what contribute to gain and removing them can make tracks louder. if you have a kick and snare and ride playing together at same time all with peaks you get a bigger peak so by having just the kick with a peak makes smaller peak thus louder potential mix. if you have all three together you dont need all of them to have peaks as it contributes to clicking kicks. removing them contributes to thumping kicks.
electrogen
at the end of the day making good music cant really be taught. principles can but good producers also sacrifice years and many hours every day learning and striving to learn more.
were a bit like cooks too. as someone said there are no hard and fast rules to making music. anything works infact this is how we find new tricks. but the eq side of things, if your having muddy tracks chances are its because you havent rolled something off.
i layer everything, kicks hats snares bass everything. and buss them and process the busses with rolloffs and the channels with creative eq.
google "soundonsound EQ"
and read their articles also anything else you dont understand.
and listen to classical music they dont have EQ
cruelcore1
I had spikey decay on my lead which was really important to the track, and I remember I had to watch out with comp and limiter during mastering because they smoothened my spikes. That's what I was talking about.
By the way, is it just me or do spikey leads sound less spikey on high volumes than on low volumes to human hearing? Or is it my audio driver limiting the track in its own bad way? I make sure my sound never crosses +0dB marker, so that shouldn't be the problem.
Dys7
That's because human perceptiveness of volume is logarithmic.
DJ_FunDaBounce
quote:Originally posted by electrogen:
at the end of the day making good music cant really be taught....
So true.
I also agree on the 'being like cooks' part. one thing, though. coming from a musician (i.e. playing guitar, keyboards, drums, bass) background, I feel your posts suggest music making on the computer a bit of a freeform art. Don't get me wrong, I myself see it as that to a degree but seriously, if you're lacking in the 'traditional' aspects of learning an instrument there are so many things you'll miss out on in terms of musical progress. So much has already been done in other styles of music that, if not applied to what you're currently trying to make, you're going to burn out trying to re-invent the wheel. Never do we hear about ear training or knowing your intervals. It's almost always talk about unlimitied options in your DAW's and synths; about 'plug-ins that add character'. About "sounds you've never heard before".
I sometimes feel we're forced to bite off more than we can chew in this industry. So while I agree some things, like taste, CAN'T be taught I would suggest guiding by example and not so much talk.
Mortis
Here's a great video on EQ's:
cruelcore1
quote:Originally posted by Mortis:
Here's a great video on EQ's:
I always try to make my sounding cleaner by removing rubbish frequencies and increasing necessary frequencies. it can be pretty hard with large number of instruments
Serenity
quote:Originally posted by electrogen:
Mastering;
Mastering is overrated. Mastering is a process of getting a track ready for cd or vinyl. making sure that everything has its own place in the mix and stereo field.
mastering isnt essential these days but it does help either way.
tracks from iTunes etc can sound that good before mastering and tracks have never been mastered.
basically you can get a mastered sounding mix without mastering, straight from your daw.
if anyone has any other tips, feel free to share :)
Mastering is somewhat essential to a release quality track. If you put an unmastered well mixed track next to a mastered well mixed track, guess which one will sound weak even if they are comparably mixed? Mastering cannot polish a turd, and a good mastering engineer will have you fix the problems in your track before mastering it.
I know I am biased because I learned how to produce from a mastering engineer - but it was a great way to learn because you see how something as small as a teeny crackle or pop from a sample/processing in a track can throw it off - and how to fix that. And how they take care of problems like what happens when a track is summed in mono (most club systems are mono) and half the elements cancel each other out. I don't remember the *how* of everything because it was years ago and I'm just starting to write on my own again - but being aware of the principles is half the battle. Never under estimate the power of a good engineer in general to tell you what is wrong and how to fix it!
AceofSpades_Lorenzo
hmmmm.
get a external soundcard & monitors or decent headphones as soon as you can.
Also if you're in the UK; it wouldn't be a bad idea to pay a producer for a studio session if you can.
Elipton
Don't make Lorenzo's mistake of spending hundreds of pounds on audio Hardware before you know how to produce. Having flashy gear won't make your music sound any better before you know how to write something decent, structure it nicely, mix it down and get it somewhere near finished and ready for mastering.
AceofSpades_Lorenzo
by "as soon as you can" I mean once you're ready(do everything necessary to get it an alright track done) & have the funds.
I'm not saying to buy genelecs & a RME interface from the get go!
Elipton
Yes, and I disagree. As a matter of common sense, don't start buying equipment before you're ready. With a half-decent pair of headphones you can produce a track, send it off to a label and if they like it enough, they'll master if for you. That'd be a decent gauge of when you're ready.
Monitors and top-of-the-range sound cards might make the music you hear sound better and clearer, but that won't magically improve your production ability. Personally, I think a ?20 pair of Sennheiser HD201's are sufficient true-sound quality for any rookie to gain experience learning what sounds right, why and how.
Edit: Love your edit. I was responding to "by "as soon as you can" I mean once you have the funds."
electrogen
I use sennheiser 201's bottom end is incredible on them. you know if high end is too much with them too as ur eyes water. well mine do
Kopacetic
Mixing is very important to an electronic music track. Sometimes, mastering is not needed until the mixdown is absolutely good to your best ability.
If you have trouble mixing the volume levels, try pink noise mixing. This will only help you get the right volume level for each track.
Bottom line, if you are a newbie, i would not bother focusing on mastering yet. Focus more on the composition, arrangement, and definitely the mixdown. Once your mixdown is good, the mastering would be very easy to do, or you won't even need it at all.
Just my take on it :)
EDIT: I also want to add something about EQing. Make sure you use low-pass or high-pass filters appropriately. Although these are really good for taking our unwanted frequencies, you can easily loose color in your synth by doing this. Sometimes, I would rather use a low-shelf or high-shelf filter than HP or LP filters for most synths, even kicks.
Future_Shock
Dude... all well and good tips... but a lot of what you say goes against everything else in the music industry.
And some of it is just flat out wrong. Rolling off under 40-50hz? No. Every club has that frequency and lower. A club with a good system goes much lower than that - in fact, anyone who has a subwoofer probably goes lower than that. My headphones go lower than that.
Also something i want to clarify: Mastering is not an "if you feel like it" situation. Mastering engineers are paid to do a very specific job that most mixing engineers can't do. The process of mastering not only readies a track for CD or vinyl but it also helps with the overall universal sound of the music that was mastered.
For example: You'll notice with an unmastered track that when you lower the volume the dynamics change. When a track is mastered, the dynamics stay exactly the same and uniform whether they're played back at 20dB or 100dB. Incredibly important for any music.
If it wasn't an essential part of releasing a track then nobody would do it because it's a *VERY* expensive "unnecessary" add-on.
Not to take away from anything you said cos some of it is actually pretty good advice. But this needs to be cleared up badly.
It took 2.02 ninja's to process this page!
HappyHardcore.com
1999 - 2024 HappyHardcore.com audio: PRS for music. Build: 3.1.73.1
