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T O P I C R E V I E W
Vladel
Ok an ethical question here. As we know, the hardcore scene is notorius for being crap at releasing music at all, so what i'm wondering is if some of these unreleased gems that are far past their release by date (Darwins remix of toytown for example) were uploaded by someone who was in the club sort of speak and had a copy, would you think it right to download it bearing in mind that it would never likely be released?
Does the lack of motivation for a producer to sell something he could override their right to keep it to themselves?
arpz
The problem with what you're saying is 'well past their release by date' - by definition, something that is unreleased has no such date.
In the case of the Toytown remix, that's not Darwin wanting to 'keep it to himself', it's been stated a few times on here that it simply cannot be released because it can't be cleared, otherwise no doubt we'd have seen it on HHU.
I can't imagine anyone getting too upset about people getting tunes from the 90s but you have to bear in mind, as soon as that's done, you're not going to buy it, say there's a track that Gammer plays right at the moment and for some reason it never comes out but you have a shady copy somehow, two years down the line he decides to bring out a rehash of his greatest hits album with that unreleased tune being the only gem you don't legitimately own - you're not going to buy it. (Maybe you wouldn't buy an album for one tune, I probably would if it was the only way to own it)
I do see what you're saying, but I don't think its really a justification - if it's not a problem for you morally then I don't suppose anyone will come chasing you about it, though.
warped_candykid
I don't think any genre or track deserves to be pirated...It's a piece of art someone created. This is all over the eurobeat scene: International people pirate the albums under the justification they're too hard to get.
trippnface
in the case of an older track that should have seen its day; and then a high quality emerges....in an age of shit; there is just no way in hell i would not " pirate it" ...... **** them for denying me years of potential musical bliss that literally brings tears to my eyes and fills my physical being with excessive euphoria. Was made to be enjoyed; shit is worth nothing collecting dust...
of course i don't advocate ripping some new cd or any shit like that obviously.
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
**** them for denying me years of potential musical bliss
God you're fucking stupid
The scenario you have mentioned Vladel has already played out in real life. Not sure if it's something that just emerged right here on this forum or it all happened in the comments section of Soundcloud as well, but somebody had a copy of Darwin and Entity's End of Time years before it was finally released on Entity's artist album. I think the person might have even uploaded it for free on soundcloud.
Well this person gloated on here about how someone left a CD copy of it at a club and he picked it up and kept it for himself. Well Entity wasn't too pleased and I think it all got resolved with the guy either destroying it or returning it to Entity. If the guy kept it to himself and used it to play at his own sets, or just for home listening I wouldn't have seen anything wrong with it. But going on here and gloating about it, that guy was a major dumbass lol
And what most people didn't know at the time is the song wasn't intentionally being kept from the public. Entity and HU had every intention of having that song released. It just took awhile to happen because some decisions were made that didn't benefit the song in any way and kept it from being released until last year. So no, no one's music "deserves" to be pirated, not even if it's from some awful cunty music producer, although I won't feel sorry for them if their music is ever pirated and shared publicly online.
Vladel
Yeah Latininxtc is right, i'm not suggesting pirating music for the sake of it. Also i'm not suggesting that Darwin is holding back toytown i know he would have it out if he could nor am i suggesting pirating because something is expenisve, what i am getting at is that sometimes piracy literally is the only path when things simply are not for sale.
Mostly i just wanted to get everyones opinions.
Impulse_Response
In general, I don't think any music deserves to be pirated. For me it isn't some deep ideology as much as it is the prospect of taking money away from the producer should he/she decide to release the song at some point.
Under this idea, I can sort of see one exception. When an artist/label makes a selling point along the lines of "300 copies, never to be repressed, never to be released as downloads!" then the artist is essentially saying that there is a cap on the profit from the material (licensing excluded). In this case piracy probably doesn't hurt the artist financially. It still isn't "right," but it isn't as bad as pirating something that is being sold or might be sold at some point in the future.
ViolonC
Big question.
Being exposed to and consuming culture is a basic human right. In our capitalist society this is quickly limited by the right to accumulate wealth (by others). Further consideration might boil down to the questions: What control do/(should) an artist have over their own work and what obligations do/(should) they have to society?
If you have an answer to those questions you might be able to give a good answer.
Quicksilver
What about the fact that some people just won't buy it no matter what - that just would not play it if he couldn't get it for free or illegally? In that case, there really isn't a loss financially if he pirates it (if you catch my drift?) and might give some free promotion for the artist that could result in more sales.
Someone sitting on the music for years, refusing to give a rat's ass about releasing it (Hixxy or Sharkey for example) despite there being money to be made, well, I won't cry any tears for them if people found a way to pirate that music. Not talking about stuff that can't be cleared (though Hixxy's being a bitch not letting them release the Toytown remix, oh look I mentioned Hixxy again!) as that's another matter.
We all probably have different moral views here so it's a discussion that could go on forever.
Thumpa
No, if you haven't got it then you haven't got it for a reason. It isn't anyone's right to own tunes.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
**** them for denying me years of potential musical bliss
God you're fucking stupid
The scenario you have mentioned Vladel has already played out in real life. Not sure if it's something that just emerged right here on this forum or it all happened in the comments section of Soundcloud as well, but somebody had a copy of Darwin and Entity's End of Time years before it was finally released on Entity's artist album. I think the person might have even uploaded it for free on soundcloud.
Well this person gloated on here about how someone left a CD copy of it at a club and he picked it up and kept it for himself. Well Entity wasn't too pleased and I think it all got resolved with the guy either destroying it or returning it to Entity. If the guy kept it to himself and used it to play at his own sets, or just for home listening I wouldn't have seen anything wrong with it. But going on here and gloating about it, that guy was a major dumbass lol
And what most people didn't know at the time is the song wasn't intentionally being kept from the public. Entity and HU had every intention of having that song released. It just took awhile to happen because some decisions were made that didn't benefit the song in any way and kept it from being released until last year. So no, no one's music "deserves" to be pirated, not even if it's from some awful cunty music producer, although I won't feel sorry for them if their music is ever pirated and shared publicly online.
lol; you must have alot of friends.. bahahaha!
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Not talking about stuff that can't be cleared (though Hixxy's being a bitch not letting them release the Toytown remix, oh look I mentioned Hixxy again!) as that's another matter.
It ain't Hixxy...
Samination
the same thing happened to Akuma Goof's remix of UFO's Hardcore.
The monetary arguement is silly if you ask me. If you dont release it, what do you lose in value?
if you can't release it, give it out
Quicksilver
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Not talking about stuff that can't be cleared (though Hixxy's being a bitch not letting them release the Toytown remix, oh look I mentioned Hixxy again!) as that's another matter.
It ain't Hixxy...
Then who is it? Original was out on Essential Platinum, but I have a hard time seeing Dougal being this harsh to HU?
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Not talking about stuff that can't be cleared (though Hixxy's being a bitch not letting them release the Toytown remix, oh look I mentioned Hixxy again!) as that's another matter.
It ain't Hixxy...
Then who is it? Original was out on Essential Platinum, but I have a hard time seeing Dougal being this harsh to HU?
I think the person who is responsible for the holdup has already been mentioned on here, but if not it's not my place to say!
Smoogie
Does this video count as being 'pirated' considering I have it on two compilations and used one and made some slight edits:
oxis
i agree that if a track doesn't show any signs of release then there is no problem with using other means to get it. what monetary benefit would the artist lose by having a track that he didn't release pirated?
assuming that someone does get a copy of a track at a club as in your example, and the artist decides to not release the track at all later on, then they can't expect a track to be 100% safe from ever being heard if they did play it at one point.
djDMS
But being heard and being owned are 2 very different things.
I have hundreds of sets/mixes containing tracks that I know I'll never own and I'm fine with that. Definitely wouldn't go looking for rips or dodgy copies just to own them.
The only reason tracks don't get released nowadays is if they're not allowed/meant to be.
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