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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CandyAss |
Interesting thought if you ask me. I would like to believe they are, but a lot of people may disagree considering all they're really doing is chaining other people's records together. What about turntablism? What exactly is a musician?
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| saintberry |
depends how you play, the average run of the mill dj like ma self i would not call a musician, however someone like Mark N for example, a guy that can break down speedcore =O gets my vote as being a musician, takes the tunes he plays/slices/scratches/breaks/juggles to a next level
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| Oli G |
a dj who beat matches i wouldnt call a musicial
a dj who beat juggles scratches etc, i would
but not basic scratching, thats just a teqnique, compilcated scratching that actualy fits with the tunes :)
CAM001 Out FEB2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| Ultamate |
A musician is a person who makes music. A DJ does that so that would make them a musician.
Were's the F***ing Hardcore |
| CandyAss |
Some would argue that a DJ is merely playing music that a producer made. Though I suppose turntablists are taking music already created and making a new sound out of it.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| dj_stey_iz_ere |
they mix songs into over songs and make new songs so they r musician
is any1 else on the same level |
| DJ Mouse |
i see myself as a musician,then again i play guitar,bass,keyboards etc
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"Don't frown when someone annoys you, it uses 42 muscles. Bitch-slap the fu©ker, it only uses 4"
DJ Mouse |
| CandyAss |
I also see myself as a musician, though I really don't think it's a big deal if other's don't think so, I was just curious. I play bass & guitar too :)
I think the term musician is too rigidly defined by some people and that maybe anyone who appreciates music on another level and does some work with it structurally could be considered a musician...such as a student in quior class studying music...or a DJ that buys records and plays them together.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| mcjutt |
they claim to be, but all their doing are playing peoples records, yes djs do produce and write their own stuff, that makes them musicians, but not beat matching hell no
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight |
| Schuby |
DJ's ARE musicians! Turntablism is a form of art! What about the World DMC Championships?
It's funny because it happened! |
| strychnine |
I agree with everyone who's said that the beatmatching human-jukebox style of DJ does not fall in the category of "musician".
However, there are some DJ's who know their tracks back-to-front and play them in the same way that a pianist uses the keys on a piano, for whom things like fading, cueing, dropping, etc. go beyond their technical definitions and become means to manipulating the raw musical material into a new composition so far removed from its origins that to call it a "set" doesn't seem to do it justice.
And the tracks, though still recognisable, assume a new place within such sets and somehow become more interesting, more vibrant as parts of a greater whole, as if they made more sense as chapters in a story than as stories in their own right, and after hearing them within the set you're left with the impression that they're somehow 'incomplete' on their own - sort of like hearing just the violin component of an orchestral symphony, without the accompaniment of the other sections.
DJ's who can do this are musicians IMO. To say otherwise would be to do insufficient justice to their skill, their mastery of a musical artform, and would disregard their role as composers in the technological age, with their tracklists as their orchestra, the turntables replacing the wand.
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| Don Giovanni |
I don't think it could be said better than the way strychnine. Truly great djs play just that way. by the end of the set u feel as though u have been taken on this journey and experienced something...though each track has its own element and feeling it adds to the set together they are something bigger and more profound if done right (just like an orchestra). These are talented beings and no one can take that away from them whether or not people believe them to be musicians
The fight to be recognized as a musician or even a serious artist is always there for djs and even producers. I know many people that will insult the music I listen to...saying that it isn't really music because it’s made by a machine not by a person playing a physical instrument :P
I disagree. To me, music is any sound put together by a human mind in such a way that it is beautiful to the ear of the listener. If it stirs emotion and thought in the user it is music. Besides the synth or computer progs producers use can't just make music on their own...takes the right person to know how to use it to make that music. Just like how a guitar or piano can't make music on its own...u need someone that knows how to use it.
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'Together united as one indeed, WE ARE THE HARDCORE FAMILY!
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| CandyAss |
Well said strychnine! I see what you're saying. I will strive to be that kind of DJ.
And as far as electronic music producers, I would go so far as to say that they're actually more of musicians then people who play instruments. People who play intruments are hitting the same tones and chords that have been played over and over for many years. Producers of avant-garde music though are making many original sounds or at least changing samples beyond their original form. Some of these sounds had never before been heard by the human ear until electronic music came along.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| Soren |
quote:
Are DJs Musicians?
LOL, NO!
quote:
A musician is a person who makes music. A DJ does that so that would make them a musician.
Unless the DJ produced the tracks that they are spinning then they didn't make the music and hence they aren't musicians.
quote:
there are some DJ's who know their tracks back-to-front and play them in the same way that a pianist uses the keys on a piano
That's a very good comparison. If pianos had 2 keys.
quote:
for whom things like fading, cueing, dropping, etc. go beyond their technical definitions and become means to manipulating the raw musical material into a new composition so far removed from its origins that to call it a "set" doesn't seem to do it justice.
If you are talking about beat juggling and stuff then I agree it's amazing. If you are talking about actually EQ'ing the Mids and Treble and crossing beats a bit in a Nu NRG set and basic crap like that then it's damn easy.
quote:
And the tracks, though still recognisable, assume a new place within such sets and somehow become more interesting, more vibrant as parts of a greater whole, as if they made more sense as chapters in a story than as stories in their own right
I see you have practiced for your first interview. It's statments like this that fooled the general populace into thinking that DJ's are somehow great musicians. They aren't. I don't care how smooth you EQ and crossfade a record, if that's all your doing then you aren't doing much and it takes no skill.
quote:
and after hearing them within the set you're left with the impression that they're somehow 'incomplete' on their own
This is like saying if a producer blatantly steals a track and then adds an Acid line over it he is now a master musician cause he added something to the track. Total BS.
No offense to all the DJ's that think they are pushing some kind of envelope, but you aren't. Unless you're a Hip-Hop DJ that's juggling 2 records and scratching a 3rd you aren't doing anything that can't be learned in less than a week. Proof: There was a show in the UK that took a girl off the street and taught her how to DJ in 1 week and then put her out with 2-3 other "Master DJ's" and then had a bunch of (musically inclined) people try and pick the "Fake" and no one could.
Taking 2 pieces of music that other people made and combining them with a single switch is not being a musician. I don't care what genre of music you are in, it's just not. At very best a great DJ might be an artist, but that's about as far as you could push it. It took me a week to learn how to DJ and then I started playing out at a club. 3 years later I never made any mistakes and I could EQ, crossfade, and do little tricks with the best of them. But was I a musician? No.
Oh and on a side note if you buy a sampler and a "Instant Hard House" sample CD and just take a bunch of samples and maybe put in an LFO and a filter here and there and make a track I don't think you are a musician either. But that's all just IMHO of course :D
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| mcjutt |
theres an art to making music not just anyone can do it alot of people can be taught how to cue up 2 records and beat match them fair play it is hard it took me a year to do it properly, but then i discovered making music and boughta yamaha workstation and thats harder than any mix ive done yet, as for this journey the only reason its like that cos every 1s so ****ed and they dont even know where they are let alone what their doing, mcing and music production cant realy be taught, u either goit or u aint, but djing its not that hard 2 learn the basics and then in time to be good at mixing but to end it all realy or ur doing is playing other peoples tunes and thats it realy.
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight |
| Soren |
quote:
mcing and music production cant realy be taught, u either goit or u aint
I totally agree, I also think that GOOD Dj'ing is the same. I've seen people put in months and months (sometimes years) of practice DJ'ing and/or producing, like hours and hours a day, and they just can't do it. They get OK, but not good. I dunno why, it's kind of strange.
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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain. |
| CandyAss |
quote:
Originally posted by Soren:
No offense to all the DJ's that think they are pushing some kind of envelope, but you aren't. Unless you're a Hip-Hop DJ that's juggling 2 records and scratching a 3rd you aren't doing anything that can't be learned in less than a week.
Good point, but what about those DJs that can do that? I think that Q-Bert and Mixmaster Mike would be considered musicians by even the most convservative music critics standards. Pretty much any DMC contestants and such are musicians in my book.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| CandyAss |
quote:
Originally posted by CandyAss:
quote:
Originally posted by Soren:
No offense to all the DJ's that think they are pushing some kind of envelope, but you aren't. Unless you're a Hip-Hop DJ that's juggling 2 records and scratching a 3rd you aren't doing anything that can't be learned in less than a week.
Good point, but what about those DJs that can do that? I think that Q-Bert and Mixmaster Mike would be considered musicians by even the most convservative music critics standards. Pretty much any DMC contestant and such are musicians in my book.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| strychnine |
Soren: I don't want to get into another quote-war, so I'll keep it short this time 
(1) "Unless the DJ produced the tracks that they are spinning then they didn't make the music and hence they aren't musicians." Therefore, pianists are not musicians - is this what you're saying?
Alternate perspective: piecing different sounds together into a new composition ==> making music ==> being a musician.
(2) Quoting myself: "I agree with everyone who's said that the beatmatching human-jukebox style of DJ does not fall in the category of 'musician'". Quoteth you: "Taking 2 pieces of music that other people made and combining them with a single switch is not being a musician." Are we not saying the same thing?
"If you are talking about beat juggling and stuff then I agree it's amazing." I also agree with this point. Are you just twisting my words again? 
(3) "This is like saying if a producer blatantly steals a track and then adds an Acid line over it he is now a master musician cause he added something to the track. " <== Who said anything about being a "master musician"? The issue is whether they're musicians, not how good they are thereas. Hell, I don't think much of the triangle as a musical instrument, but trianglists are still musicians IMO.
...
Hmmm this reply wasn't that short. Oh well.
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The crayon is purple |
| CandyAss |
How the hell did I end up quoting myself while trying to edit my post? Hehe.
Oh well.
I don't think I care if DJs are musicians or not anymore :-p
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| strychnine |
^^ LOL that seems to happen when me and Soren get involved in a thread - everyone else stops giving a shit 
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The crayon is purple |
| Soren |
quote:
I think that Q-Bert and Mixmaster Mike would be considered musicians by even the most convservative music critics standards.
As I said, good DJ's are artists not musicians. Being a musician involves playing notes and chords on an instrument, which DJ's clearly don't do. Now I think you could stretch that to say that producers are musicians cause they program notes and chords, but there's no way a DJ is a musician. Great artist? Sure. Performers? OK. Musicians? No.
Strychnine:
quote:
Therefore, pianists are not musicians - is this what you're saying?
No i'm saying you aren't a musician unless you are playing notes and/or chords. Hence a pianist is a musician, and even a producer, but definitely not a DJ. There's nothing musical involved in pushing a crossfader from left to right and then back again once every 5 mins.
quote:
Alternate perspective: piecing different sounds together into a new composition ==> making music ==> being a musician.
Again, so if anyone takes ANY sound and puts another sound over it in a non musical fasion (ie: no notes, chords, arrangement involved) then they are a musician? If you believe that then in your mind a DJ is a musician, but I'd highly disagree.
Your quote #2: "Are we not saying the same thing?" <-- In that quote yes.
quote:
Are you just twisting my words again?
No, but in quote 1 you clearly twisted mine :D And other than the time that I stated I was twisting your words and made it clear I was joking I don't think I ever have.
quote:
Who said anything about being a "master musician"? The issue is whether they're musicians, not how good they are thereas.
I appologize, I was trying to emphasize how ridiculous it was to call DJ's musicians. And if you can call a DJ a musician I think it's fair to call a hack producer that steals material a master musician because quite frankly I think it takes more talent than pushin a crossfader and turning a Low EQ. Here:
This is like saying if a producer blatantly steals a track and then adds an Acid line over it he is now a musician cause he added something to the track. Total BS.
Better? : )
PS: i just looked up the proper term for combining 2 pieces of work that other people have done and then claiming it's something original that you have done. It's called plagiarism.
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| atomicb |
'i just looked up the proper term for combining 2 pieces of work that other people have done and then claiming it's something original that you have done. It's called plagiarism.'
ahh what would GCSE / A level coursework be without it? :D
And hmmm.. well I think I'm one of the lucky ones when it comes to being able to dj.. when I get my new decks I'll know for sure - i can dj nice on the once I have but they are literally falling apart now!
But yeah I was worried it would take me forever to get good and it only took a few weeks - only thing that stops me hitting clubs is big time nerves I have :)
to DJ is not to be musicain, but DJ's are special when they pick a good selection of tunes :)
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| strychnine |
quote:
Originally posted by Soren:
Again, so if anyone takes ANY sound and puts another sound over it in a non musical fasion (ie: no notes, chords, arrangement involved) then they are a musician? If you believe that then in your mind a DJ is a musician, but I'd highly disagree.
Then disagree all you want. My definition of musicianship is a very broad one that includes a lot of activity in the realm of music-manipulation, without the subjective value judgments that you seem to uphold. If there's one thing my dear grandmother taught me it was that I should have a very open mind when dealing with artistic issues.
PS ... just as a bit of background, I am not a DJ, nor do I want to be one. I am, however, a pianist, and I also dabble a bit with the ol' acoustic guitar.
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The crayon is purple |
| Soren |
quote:
My definition of musicianship is a very broad one that includes a lot of activity in the realm of music-manipulation, without the subjective value judgments that you seem to uphold. If there's one thing my dear grandmother taught me it was that I should have a very open mind when dealing with artistic issues.
This has nothing to do with keeping an open mind. And it has nothing to do with any subjective or objective value judgments. It's a very simple terminology issue. Is a skateboarder a musician becuase he is skilled at an activity that makes a bunch of successive clacking noises?
Musican: A composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : Instrumentalist.
Well a DJ doesn't compose or conduct, rule those 2 out. And I don't think you can call a turntable an instrument because an instrument is a device used to produce music which a turntable clearly doesn't do. So that leaves us with "a performer of music". Is a DJ this? Lets break it down:
Perform: To adhere to the terms of.
Music: The science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity.
Well a DJ clearly doesn't adhere to ordering tones or sounds in succession although they can adjust the "tempo" of an arrangement with a little slider and can maintain unity by not fecking up the crossfade. But there is no note or tone performance involved so therefore a DJ is not a musician. And that's a fact. If there's one thing my dear grandmother taught me it's stick to the facts and keep it simple. Now you can try to redefine the english language all you want to fit the subjective value judgments that you seem to uphold but I'll still disagree.
PS: Maybe you should try DJ'ing before you try and pass judgment on what it is and what it isn't. There's no way you call someone that does an activity that's so simple and non musical as DJ'ing a musician. Your argument is the same as me saying that because someone can use a thermometer they are a scientist when I've never used a thermometer before and don't know what a scientist is.... |
| strychnine |
^^ nice try. I have tried DJ'ing, and have put up some semi-respectable performances. Sure, it isn't the same as tinkling the keys on a piano, of strumming a guitar, but IMO a good DJ is still a musician.
A skateboarder? No - the primary purpose of his skateboarding is not to make that clacking sound. If it were, then I'd probably consider it.
"ordering ... sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity."
Going by this definition, a DJ, arranging the tracks in succession (ordering), in combination (mixing) and in temporal relationships (cuing) to produce a unified and continuous set, is a musician. It didn't require *that* much twisting now, did it?
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The crayon is purple |
| junglist_angel |
well... if the DJ is just going from one track to the next without putting any feeling into it, then no... not a musician.
But if he is mixing the shit with emotion and skills, then wouldn't you call that a musician?
there's much more to mixing than just placing in a track one after the other. Many more skills to be learned 
have you ever watched a entier turntableism show? hip hop styleee....
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| gemini |
I am a DJ, not pro but i bin doin it a fair few years and i am also a producer. i have to say, dj's really arnt musicians...they need to have alot of knowledge to be a 'good' dj. like knowin when to play what tunes and stuff. especially wid new style happy >its hard to mix without bluring two different riffs or bass lines together which usually sounds shit.. and it takes more than a week to do mix well! .... but it really wouldnt be the same wivout a dj and the top dj's around really do hav a ****in lot of skill and not anybody can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also generally top dj's r producers
(´¸.·*´¯`*·»2ºº3 Tom B |
| kid cid |
quote:
Originally posted by strychnine:
Going by this definition, a DJ, arranging the tracks in succession (ordering), in combination (mixing) and in temporal relationships (cuing) to produce a unified and continuous set, is a musician.
Ahh...I remember back when we had this argument in my forum.
It's quite simple. DJ's aren't musicians. Some of them come close...like QBert for instance...because he mutiliates tracks beyond all recognition, and makes something very different sounding....but if you took away from him the music that OTHER PEOPLE MADE - then what would he do? Well....QBERT happens to be talented enough he could probably make a track scratching on a piece of cardboard...that's why I would say *he* is probably a musician.
However, DJ's like that are few and far between.
So overall, Dj's are not musicians. They play other peoples music. If they were musicians, they wouldn't have to do that. Certainly, some DJ's produce their own tracks...and in that case, *he himself* is a musician.
Whenever you find yourself thinking "wow - dj's are amazing...they are such good musicians" just think to yourself..."Wait - how good would he be without records?" If Dj's could actually "create" music, they wouldn't really need other peoples records would they? They could just get up there and "create" stuff.
On my forum, many people made the claim "so a guitarist that covers someone elses song isn't a musician?" But they fail to see the point. To make that argument it would be like a guitarist standing there, pushing play on a tape deck with the song pre-recorded, and then saying he "played" it. True - he did play the tape. And Dj's "play" records...but that is a different kind of "playing" than someone who uses their hands to pluck many notes in a row...
Anyway...if you actually play a real instrument, and think DJ's are musicians...you aren't giving yourself enough credit. If you don't play an instrument, and you think DJ's are musicians, you are giving DJ's too much credit.
Look at it like this...if you are a super hardcore DJ and spin on even 3 turntables....you are still playing 3 other peoples records....if you wrote a book where you word for word copied straight out of three books...you would get sued like a mother****er...
Why do you think DJ sets on CD have to have a track list, and have the copyrights cleared?
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| strychnine |
quote:
Originally posted by kid cid:
It's quite simple. DJ's aren't musicians. Some of them come close...like QBert for instance...because he mutiliates tracks beyond all recognition, and makes something very different sounding....but if you took away from him the music that OTHER PEOPLE MADE - then what would he do? Well....QBERT happens to be talented enough he could probably make a track scratching on a piece of cardboard...that's why I would say *he* is probably a musician.
However, DJ's like that are few and far between.
I think this is where the whole argument boils down to - my point is that really good DJ's do enough of their own manipulation of the music that they should be counted as musicians. Frankly, I don't think it even matters anymore to anyone *shrugs*
*edit* Forgive me if I gave the impression at any point in this thread that it's all that important to me. It's not. I just enjoy arguing ... and that sonuvabitch Soren shot down one of my replies, and I wasn't about to take it sitting down
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The crayon is purple |
| atomicb |
haha, once again you both have valid points :)
No matter how much quoting you do ure never going to prove the other one wrong, nor get them to agree to your terms :)
I dunno, combing two things does tend to give you something diffrent, and seperate from what the person who made either of the songs you mixing inented. Sure they are meant to be mixed, but you are making constant choices, and so they deserve more credit than you give them. Soren, you say you found DJ'ing easy.. thats nice, perhaps you are one of the lucky few that just feel it ( I beleive to some extent I got that) But the choice of tunes, and the choice of when to mix, and how to mix the tunes you get.
This I would say would put theh higher than you rate them soren, but perhaps not as high as the classical definition of musician.
... I await your quote heavy ripping of me :D
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| kid cid |
quote:
Originally posted by atomicb:
But the choice of tunes, and the choice of when to mix, and how to mix the tunes you get.
"But the choice of other peoples tunes, and the choice of when to mix other peoples tunes, and how to mix other peoples tunes...etc..."
I don't mean to make this sound like I'm ripping on you. I just think that DJ's get a lot more credit than the producers, unless you run with the producer crowd...but one way or another...no one really cares. I too just love to argue with people. Anyone into electronic music can name 5 DJ's, but there a ton of people who would have a hard time naming 5 producers. (Obvious ones like, Moby, Aphex, Oakey (hahahaa), aside...)
Anyway...my point is basically that DJ's spin other peoples records. If the *real* musicians didn't make that music to begin with, you couldn't be a DJ. Hence, DJ's are not the musicians. Dj's are definately "artists" or "performers", and are very talented. They deserve credit as they have blown my mind more than once...but not the credit that a real musician gets...
But...alas...no one cares. Which is always the sign of a good thing to argue about.... :)
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| strychnine |
quote:
Originally posted by atomicb:
No matter how much quoting you do ure never going to prove the other one wrong, nor get them to agree to your terms :)
Aye, 'tis true, but if we only argued points that we think we'd win, we'd never argue at all ... and wouldn't that make for a boring discussion board?
quote:
Originally posted by kid cid:
Anyway...if you actually play a real instrument, and think DJ's are musicians...you aren't giving yourself enough credit. If you don't play an instrument, and you think DJ's are musicians, you are giving DJ's too much credit.
Oh, I give myself a lot of credit as a pianist, don't you worry about that (shame I can't say the same about my guitar work =P). Thing is, to me calling someone a musician doesn't do them any credit at all - it's whatever qualifiers (eg. good, bad, average) that you add to that categorisation that gives them credit/criticism, not the categorisation itself.
No, the issue for me is whether a DJ manipulates the tracks he/she plays sufficiently to warrant their recognition as musicians. I believe that good DJ's (be they good turntablists or good set-builders) do.
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The crayon is purple |
| CandyAss |
Wow, my topic is on fire :-p
I guess everyone presented some good arguements. DJs are a special kind of classification. I mean, they're deeply involved in music, but they don't write any of their own. What does this make them? A collector? An entertainer? I'm still not so sure what the definate answer is. Maybe there isn't one.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| CandyAss |
I hate to revive my own dead topic, but I've decided that DJs are, in fact, musicians. Think about it. You have to know a lot about music to be a good DJ. About how music is structured and what things sound like together. Just think about how committed your average DJ is to his/her genre, local scene, ect. Even more then your average local rock musician.
That thing about the TV show in the Uk where the girl off the street is taught for one week and is as good as "pro" DJs, I just don't buy that (I believe it was on, but you know how network TV is). They might've just not liked DJ culture and trained the girl longer...if not it had to be one of 2 things if the people couldn't tell the difference between a newbie and pro 1) That girl had a very strong natural ability to DJ 2) Those other 2 DJs sucked crap and trainwrecked every mix so they were just as bad as her.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| strychnine |
Like Soren says, you can learn to beatmix with a week of concentrated effort. However, good DJ'ing involves much, much more than this, and comes (as you say) with an intimate knowledge of the music and a sense of expression that goes way beyong the mechanics of fiddling knobs and sliding faders around.
Having said that, however ... this topic is sooooo last year
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I pity anyone who isn't me. |
| CandyAss |
Haha, yes I guess it was, but so are the bulk of topics on here if you put it that way.
Yeah, anyone can learn the concepts of how to beatmatch/mix in less then a day if they're intelligent, and find detailed instructions that they understand. It takes a lot of practice to actually be able to get what the result of those concepts are suppose to yield when applied.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| kid cid |
Not to totally throttle a dead horse....but here it goes.
DJ = Disk Jockey
Musicians make those disks. If there were not REAL ACTUAL MUSICIANS out there making music, there could be no such thing as a DJ.
I really fail to understand why people have such a hard time with this concept.
Yes, DJ's can get extremely good. They can do crazy stuff with OTHER PEOPLES MUSIC, maybe even mutilate someone elses music to the point that it doesn't sound like the original at all. But without the original, they would be spinning the lack of sound...dead air...and while John Cage was sorta cool...I really doubt anyone would appeciate a set of dead silence.
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| CandyAss |
quote:
Originally posted by kid cid:
DJ = Disk Jockey
Musicians make those disks. If there were not REAL ACTUAL MUSICIANS out there making music, there could be no such thing as a DJ.
I really fail to understand why people have such a hard time with this concept.
DJs do a lot more then just "jockey" discs. I think you have to see musician in a broader light. The thing is, while producers MAKE the music and we all know and respect them, there are many people out there who would say that producers aren't REAL musicians either because they're not using REAL instruments to MAKE the music. Some people think that using a computer to make songs isn't being a real musician. Of course we all know that's not the case and this is an entirely different arguement. The fact is that you have to have musical skills to be a DJ, it's a lot more then just playing records...it takes being a musician, just not the same kind people are used to.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
| Soren |
Mwwaaahhahahahahhaha!!!
quote:
You have to know a lot about music to be a good DJ.
Total BS. You need to be able to recognize when a bar starts to be a great DJ, that's it. That's like saying because some dude knows everything about comic books that he's a good writer/illustrator. Being able to remember when a song starts, ends, and when bars start and stop is NOT being a musician any more than being able to recognize when some actor sucks makes you an actor.
quote:
Just think about how committed your average DJ is to his/her genre, local scene, ect. Even more then your average local rock musician.
So because I love Hong Kong movies and know a lot about them I guess I'm a famous Hong Kong movie actor? So if you know all about skateboarding and personally hung out with all the big names I guess you'd be a damned good skateboarder too? No.
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That thing about the TV show in the Uk where the girl off the street is taught for one week and is as good as "pro" DJs, I just don't buy that
Buy it or not I saw it and she was good. And just FYI I practiced for 2 days after work before my first DJ gig and I trainwrecked either 2 or 3 times in 2 hours (I forget). If I had practiced for a week 8 hours a day with help I'm pretty damned sure I would have sounded professional too.
quote:
That girl had a very strong natural ability to DJ 2) Those other 2 DJs sucked crap and trainwrecked every mix so they were just as bad as her.
Have you ever tried DJ'ing? It's really not that hard... and no one trainwrecked at all. And the judges that couldn't tell the difference and guessed wrong were local promoters and DJ's.
quote:
there are many people out there who would say that producers aren't REAL musicians either because they're not using REAL instruments
Really? I've never met anyone that said producers weren't musicians. I guess Beethoven wasn't a real musician either cause he never used real instruments, he just scribbled down notes on paper.
quote:
The fact is that you have to have musical skills to be a DJ
No you absolutely do not. I know tons of people that have no musical skills whatsoever and are good DJ's. DJ'ing is a technical skill, not musical. If it were a musical skill you wouldn't have people like me running around with no musical background at all practicing a bit for 2 days and then doing pretty damn good live. Either that or I'm like the über god of DJ'ing.
Baseball has a rythm too. You have to learn the timing of the baseball and be able to judge the speed of the ball to hit it. I guess baseball players are musicians then?
Picking out songs that you personally like doesn't make you a musician. Learning a technical skill that relates to music doesn't make you a musician. Studio engineers/mixers know 100X more about music and do something that is way more musical than almost every DJ on the planet, are they called musicians? NO. They are engineers. Why? Because it's a technical skill, not a musical one. Just like DJ'ing.
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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain. |
| mcjutt |
or people like dj rectangle thats good djing
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight |
| whispering |
musician is just a word, that is supposed to have the same meaning in everybodys mind... so take a dictionary and watch what musician means...
so now we only have one question, is turntable an instrument?
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| CandyAss |
Whispering: I guess some people consider turntables instruments and some people consider them just a medium to play records on.
Soren: I understand some of what you're saying, though a few of your analogies don't make much sense. I guess some people wouldn't consider Beethoven a musician for writing down notes on paper, but he did play piano also, didn't he? Believe it or not, there are people in the mainstream music industry that believe that music created with computers isn't real music and those who make it aren't real musicians. I have tried DJing, I still do it, and I'll admit it isn't very hard to learn at all, but neither is playing guitar if you put your mind to it. You're allowed way more versitility when forming chords and progressions, but you're still just hitting the same notes everyone else does, so does that mean you're not a real musician since you didn't create the sound yourself? I know that's a stupid example, but if you think about it guitarists are just manipulating already created sounds, though they are much more simple then the complete songs that DJs manipulate. I guess you did get me thinking again, and now I'm not sure if DJs are musicians or not. Damn, back to the beginning.
CandyAss
Drew
http://www.valence2000.com
http://www.hardcorps.org |
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