| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| rezzna |
alrite a mate today told me that most djs (sy, hixxy etc...) use cd decks for the bulk of their sets and only use vinyl for one or two tracks.
i reckon hes talking bollocks.
but hes impossible to argue with, one of those blokes u just wanna hit wen he disagrees wit ya 
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| Simon |
Although there are CD decks in the hardcore arena's and some dj's do use them.....Believe Me they mainly use vinyl especially Sy for his scratching :-) |
| Xenochrome |
Oh yeah, like YOU would know.
|
| BJ |
Ye i reckon hes talkin bollox 2 m8. Just tryin to impress u wiv his home made made knowledge.
HARDCORE NEVA DIES |
| DJ Mouse |
they'll have cd decks on some nights but if they use them then fair play to them. easier getting a brand new track burned onto cd than going through a record press innit
--------------------------------------------------
"Did you know that eleven plus two is an anagram of twelve plus one?"
DJ Mouse |
| tommo |
Well I'm sure almost all djs use cds occaisionally.
But Sy definately doesnt use them for the "bulk" of his sets.
Im just a bassline addict
Im just a hardcore addict
Im just a dancefloor manic
Why o why cant you just accept it. |
| No Left Turn |
there's no difference between playing cd's and vinyl. one way or another, they're playing the same tunes.
-Donny / No Left Turn
http://www.liquidvinyldjs.com |
| strychnine |
During the last couple of months worth of internationally-headlined raves I noticed most (if not all) of the internationals played off CD. In this case at least you also have to consider the relative bulk of vinyl compared to CD, in that they had to bring their music over from the UK.
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SickParty.com - can you really afford to miss a party this sick? |
| Oli G |
Hixxy, breeze, styles, ufo, dougal, etc etc etc etc etc
ALL use cds
and most other djs all drop in one or two tracks on cd that they havnt yet pressed to vinyll
vinyl smells of wee anyway
too big n stuff
CAM001 Out MARCH2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy & Imo
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| virus |
smells of wee?
no way, dude.. vinyl is totally sexy
|
| silver |
I know UFO and storm use all CD decks, most DJ's prefer to drop a promo tune on CD as it costs like 1 dollar rather than 50 for a dub plate.
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you, me and hardcore forever. |
| Stevie c |
Never realised so many have moved over. Seems logical and glad that's what I have done. Still would really like to get a deck to go with the system so i can learn how to scratch properly, all stratching boards sound poo.
Cds are cheaper, easier to carry, and have more than two tunes on them, Vinyl is at a serious disadvantage. Still it is the original hardcore style. For me just to late.
Your into the sound of Rebellion |
| silver |
I still love vinyl... nothing will ever replace it... even if I am forced to use CD's to play promo.
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you, me and hardcore forever. |
| saintberry |
not to mention heaps of tunes only come out on 12" and all those old classics.
i spose you could wack them on your pute then burn them to cd, but that would take ages and in the long run it would just be easier to lug that heavy vinyl round.
sill im getting a CD deck soon, not for hardcore, but for psy and goa...cant wait to get my hands on the new denon table top player its so leet =D
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| strychnine |
quote:
Originally posted by saintberry:
i spose you could wack them on your pute then burn them to cd, but that would take ages
Ummm ... what do you mean by this? You can probably get a record to CD via your soundcard and hard-drive (leaving a back-up soft-copy, of course) in just a bit more time than it takes to play it.
But as others have said, nothing'll match the feel of vinyl (except maybe Final Scratch, but I've never tried that).
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SickParty.com - can you really afford to miss a party this sick? |
| Oli G |
i will have pretty much converted over to cd now, getting a cdj800 next week, i find the sound quality to be far finer (no point arguing over sound quality within hardcroe cos its all masterd off cd anyway) and its cheaper than gettin dubs pressed, vinyls ok, but its too big and flexible, and annoying, and dependant on conditons where ur playin (stylus has to be good etc)
loads of people winge at me, "but haha you have to take your cd decks everywhere"
imagine if cd was the standard... imagine the **** of lugging 2 1210's with you to every gig :)
CAM001 Out MARCH2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy & Imo
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| strychnine |
^^ don't most parties have CD decks prepped anyways?
And CD decks have come so far in the last year or so that they've become a very realistic proposition - I mean, even the CDJ-100 is a fine piece of kit.
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SickParty.com - can you really afford to miss a party this sick? |
| rezzna |
now im strting to wonder about gittin vinyl decks at all...
vinyl decks are BIG and BULKY and play stupidly large musical media, which warp/break/skip and need cleaning,
cd players just play cds...
i think ill wait till better quality cd decks become cheaper, and i can mix properly (bout 3 years then... )
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| Oli G |
slammin and skelter do, and decent clubs
but most places i play at dont have them installed
CAM001 Out MARCH2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy & Imo
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| strychnine |
That's funny ... down here all the shit clubs have CD only, and it's only the good clubs that have turntables set up. I've even seen one shitty pub-cum-nightclub where the "DJ" was playing off a laptop with two instances of Winamp opened up 
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| TweekiN |
What club.. metropolis?
The FORCE is strong with this one
Go hard or GO HOME!! |
| weba_d |
well why not cd's, they have come along way as far as cd deck are concerned
__________________________________________
save your Brain
WEBA D |
| Oli G |
as far as cd decks are concerned they have come far
vinyl hasnt got much better since the 70's and didnt really get much better untill the 70s from years and years ago
:D
CAM001 Out MARCH2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy & Imo
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| Stevie c |
I have cd decks and the only bad thing I would say is those cd's we all own and are already mixed by an excellent Dj like Hixxy or Sy.
1) It makes learning more difficult as you have to pick carefully where to get in and out, also you have to be quick,no long cross overs and 2) When you know a wicked mix is coming, why bother!! I have this amazing old skool drum and Bass jungle cd but one in its virtually impossible to get out for 9 tracks, I just stand there like a lamb chop nodding my head. I even get people saying that mix was wicked when I haven't done anything!! I mumble under my breath and feel guilty for about three days
Your into the sound of Rebellion |
| rezzna |
thats the main beef wit cds, in order to mix properly wiv em, u need to buy the vinyl anyway, so its unmixed and the full version, and ur guna hafta upgrade, just to play these cds which already need t be made urself by buying the vinyl.
sounds like far too much hassle to jus be able to drop one of ur own choons in during a set
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| CDJay |
Yea, well the only reason that is true is coz most HH labels haven't got off their arses yet and done "proper" CD releases.
This is what keeps the casual mainstream buyer at bay, as generally only DJs have record decks (!). Of all my local m8s NONE of them has a record player, I have one but it's lacking a stylus. I'm in no hurry to fix it, I haven't bought any hardcore vinyl since 2001.
If you were an established DJ you'd have CD promos coming out of ur ears, it's just the average buyer and up and coming DJ that'll have trouble getting them.
CDJay
"Some people see things as they are... and say "Why?"
I dream things that never were, and say "Why Not?" " |
| Skyler |
You are all skirting round the piracy aspect.
With the evolution of CDDecks comes the threat of piracy killing things alltogether.
I mentioned this in a thread before...
Theres no need to bother with buying and then ripping vinyl, just download the mp3s already ripped by others.. You pay nothing and get the tune.. As a result of this vinyl and decks sales will drop.
The scene will fall on its own head if CD Decks take over, due to piracy.
Before CDDecks all DJ's could download mp3s but they couldnt DJ with them, so they would use them as a testbed to try out new tunes before buying the actual vinyl. Now there is no need to buy the vinyl at all.
I am not against CDDecks, I think they are rather good but with music piracy as it is they have so much potential to kill sales. There are enough ****s who dont pay for hardcore as it is.
Also lets think about the rare tune aspect.. all rare tunes will be useless.. instead of buying jj#1 for 50quid or whatever, just download a rip and you never need to even see the original.
You may also think to yourselves that most DJ's would still buy the tunes, well I think thats utter crap really. No one is gonna question wether you downloaded them or not when you are playing them at a venue, especially when they are off CDR's. There is absolutely no need for anyone to buy any records if they have CDDecks.
Which is why I will probably end up getting a pair.. Then I can enjoy not paying for my music as so many others will..
I am with silver on this though, I love vinyl and I really do not want to see my beloved records/decks worthless and CDDecks taking over, if they do take over then I wont be buying much in the future :)
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| CDJay |
I love this knee jerk reaction to things, it's the sort of attitude that amuses me greatly.
I guess the solution is just to not actually release music at all, can't possibly be pirated that way innit.
Edit: Oh yes, forgot to mention. I love the irony when I hear anti-CDJ rants. CDJs saved the hardcore scene in this millenium. Fact. You probably wouldn't even have any new vinyl to play if it wasn't for CDJs and the DJs using them.
CDJay
"Some people see things as they are... and say "Why?"
I dream things that never were, and say "Why Not?" " |
| strychnine |
Look, release CD singles and you lose sales to piracy, don't release them and you lose sales just from the exclusivity of vinyl and the high price of decent turntables, either way you're gonna get people who would otherwise buy the music refraining instead. I just think the gains to be had from releasing CD's outweigh the costs in increased piracy.
Oh, and you're naive to think full-length mp3's aren't out there already. You'd be surprised what you can get your hands on if you know where to look - both in terms of new tracks and of rare tracks. Considering also that the hardcore scene's too small to get up and say, "We don't want CD decks", and expect it to stick, the best alternative would be to capitalise on it, wouldn't you say?
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| Raver_Davie |
Everytime I've been to an event there's always CD decks, if you look on all recent rave pics, it's CD decks, the last rave i went to i saw dowster showing dougal his CD collection, so yup they do look like they're used alot.
Also put yourself in there shoes, you've just made a song you can either:
A) burn it onto CD knowing it's gonna be good qaulity and takes just under a minute
or...
B) head down to a pressing plant and have it pressed there, which ive read costs a bomb!
Dave! |
| Oli G |
quote:
Look, release CD singles and you lose sales to piracy,
wrong, there is a rip group doing EVERY new hardcore vinyl.. so there is no escape
if people want something, they will rip it, no matter what format
CAM001 Out MARCH2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy & Imo
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| strychnine |
Oli G: But if *every* track were to be released on CD then you'd have a higher proportion of music-buyers who'll rip, cuz not everyone has turntables but everyone has a CD-ROM drive. Of course, you'd also have more music buyers, which can only be a good thing.
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| CDJay |
strychnine - u make far too much sense
Heh.
CDJay
"Some people see things as they are... and say "Why?"
I dream things that never were, and say "Why Not?" " |
| rezzna |
groups of cd djs putting 50p in each and making 6 copies of a single purchased copy of a choon, then doin 20 more copies between em to their average fan matee, they get on the net, kazaa has 15odd users with the new choon thats only been out a week and a half, about 100 ppl get copies of it, and only 1 copies been bought.
its a shame that thas the way itd probly end up,
ON THE OTHER HAND if hardcore producers got less in sales, theyd have to play live more (as has happend in numerous other musical scenes) which would be great, as people thatve ripped the cds off kazaa will be interested in goin to clubs and seein it live, hardcore nights will become more and more frequent, and the scene will eventually begin to boom once again, with it all ending up with live PAs and live vocals bein performed on Top of the Pops....
maybe...
long as everything still gets released on vinyl there wont be any complaining
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| atomicb |
Having just spent 700 pounds on decks, clearly I have faith in vinyl sticking around. It's always a problem when you get crossroads of technology like this - You get those that adopt it and call everyony stupid for not following thier lead, and you get the seasoned veterans who will just never give up vinyl.
No doubt I'll get ripped for this, but somehow vinyl goes a long way to making a dj. I *know* it doesn't really matter, but seeing a dj spinning vinyl is infinitely more impressive and diffrent to your average joes cd player. You say vinyl keeps the mainstream market from adopting it, and in a way I kinda like that. When people come over and see my playing on my decks it's all worlds away from them - decks, vinyl + vinyl manipulation.
Ahh I dunno I'm rambling.. lets just say I understand both points of view, and there's no need for either side to get up tight, as long as the option for both methods or DJ'ing remain.
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| Skyler |
Forget CD Singles, they will make no difference.. they are effectively a waste of time.
My point is that CDDecks will help to really hurt vinyl sales..
It is too easy to download perfect rips of vinyl on mp3 and burn to CD and then play them out in a set.. no need to buy the tune.. even if CD singles were around do you think people would pay nearly as much as the price of a record for a CD that blatantly cost 10p to make ?
I've spoken to many many people about this and all of them would play illegally obtained music on their CDDecks if they had them, next to none of them would buy many CDSingles either. Those that said they would buy tunes still were ones who had conventional decks as well...
Stay faithful to vinyl!
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| strychnine |
Fact: full-length hi-quality mp3's are already out there.
Fact: CD decks are here to stay, and we as a scene don't have the buying power to change that (even if we wanted to).
Fact: Why do CD's necessarily have to cost as much as vinyl? If costs of production are that much lower (and they are) then I'd imagine a fair proportion of the savings should filter down to the buyer, and I would also expect there to be more than 1-2 tracks on a CD. Okay, maybe not CD singles, but something more EP in length?
So your friends won't pay for CD's. Your friends may not be representative of the scene as a whole. Oh, and doesn't the fact that ... quote:
Those that said they would buy tunes still were ones who had conventional decks as well...
... suggest to you that yeah, current sales (ie vinyl sales) would stay reasonably untouched? With that in mind, even modest sales of CD singles would represent an increase in overall sales?
I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but between the choice of having $1 in sales and losing $5 to piracy, and having $5 in sales and losing $50 to piracy, I'd pick the latter.
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| Skyler |
Have you seen the music industry recently ?
CD Singles for most club tunes (Trance for example) are around 2.99-4.99.
Thats near vinyl prices which is ridiculous considering the CD's cost about 10p to make..
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| strychnine |
Actually, down here you'd pay about $15-$20 for a record, and about half that for a CD single(and remember you generally get more remixes on CD).
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| Stevie c |
Now I find a good conversation, leave it for two minutes and Strychnine has said everything i wanted to say!!
Your into the sound of Rebellion |
| Simon |
I'm all for cd's myself, with exactly the same reasons as Strychnine!!!!!!!!!
This could well be the first-time ever me & Strchnine have seen something the same way.......you read it here people!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm in a state of shock now myself  Me Agreeing With Strychnine .
I'm shocked what have i done......i think i'm gonna go comfort myself with my fridge Before I go mad.....or i am too late for that!!!!!!!!!
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Everything is random, your probebly not meant to read this!!!!!!
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| Skyler |
CD's will also send hardcore more mainstream, which is again a bad thing as we all know what that did to Garage.
The more 'mainstreamy' labels in hardcore are already churning out very similar sounds and there isnt much variety in their releases. It will get even more like that if hardcore goes mainstream.
Also I have found there to be more remixes available on vinyl than on CD's..
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| DJ Mouse |
at the end of the day cd is a much better format for mixes. instead of carrying 10 records you can have them all on one 12cm disc. but i still prefer my vinyl and always will. i'd like to see cd decks everywhere alongside vinyl but i'd hate to see record decks die and fade away.
--------------------------------------------------
"Did you know that eleven plus two is an anagram of twelve plus one?"
DJ Mouse |
| Skyler |
CD is a better format in terms of storage and convenience.. it is by no means the better format for mixes ;)
CD is also the mp3 whores friend, enables them to download some vintage hardcore (records worth a lot of money) and play them out for absolutely nothing. It also allows them to play all new stuff, downloading it before its released in most cases.. for free.
Vinyl is still king imo and should never be dropped, it is part of DJing heritage..
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| Xenochrome |
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
Me Agreeing With Strychnine
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| strychnine |
Skyler: Who said anything about doing away with records? I argued all my points on the premise that CD releases would be in addition to vinyl.
... oh, and your constant "CD is evil" arguments are pretty worthless in light of the fact that people do release hardcore on CD (albeit in mixes). The medium is not to blame for piracy.
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| Inferno |
I, personally, agree with both sides of this arguement. If the scene were to lean one way or another, the music would be hurt financially either way. But, there is also the idea of the different buyers to consider.
Someone who -only- listens to the music will not find ordering songs two at a time from a far away place to be played on a large machine very convenient, so a cd serves their purpose well. And while mp3's are on the rise, I know a large number of people, if not the majority, will still buy a cd for the...whatever reason of owning an official cd, whether for the quality, giving money where it's due, etc.
But as was stated earlier, it is much more impressive to see a dj working with a pair of decks and their vinyl collection-seeing that kind of dedication makes it worth it. Sure, the convenience of cdj's will make them preferable but there must be plenty of those who are attached to tradition. Once tracks are available to the public, things may get overplayed and the nostalgia of hearing a favorite song will wear off when -everyone- is playing it. "Rare" tracks will essentially be eliminated, or at least the rarity will be lessened and the excitement of a discovery won't be felt at all.
(IMHO)
Hardcore will never die |
| pacman |
while i won't state any reasonable arugment, i will say this. imagine what damage it will do if/when one can buy 600-700 songs on one mp3cd for about $20... think about it
drugs is not the answer... drugs? is the question... yes is the answer |
| Stevie c |
Pacman, I understand but the newest stuff you can't get
Would love to get Deffinition of a bad boy free but can't be done. Can get loads of old cool stuff but nothing bang up to date. I won't get good or famous for playing old tunes, so in regard to djing the arguement doesn't stand up. To get the best quickly everyone has to pay for a limited supply, By the time its up for grabs, its old
Your into the sound of Rebellion |
| Skyler |
strychnine: I didnt say CD's were to blame for piracy, I am merely trying to show the damage that they can and will do to vinyl and the whole scene.
Having CDDecks allows someone to download from an almost unlimited supply of hardcore music. They can download almost any tune in your record collection and play them out, only they have not paid for it. Do you think that is fair to anyone? With CDDecks its a lot easier to excuse yourself from buying the music.
Years ago the mp3 scene was for DJ's by DJ's. DJ's ripped mp3s for each other so they could test out new promos and work out what they wanted to buy. They couldnt DJ with them because they werent vinyl, so they always went out and bought the vinyl of the tracks they liked. This kind of activity helped the hardcore scene a huge amount, it spread the hardcore sound around to far more people and pretty much increased sales. Now CDDecks are a real viable option for DJ's (moreso than they have been in the past) those who download the mp3s no longer need purchase the vinyl to play them out. Once they have the mp3 rips they wont really feel like buying the CD Single either, as they already have something the same quality and all they are effectively paying for is a label (and supporting the artist). Less people will buy vinyl, and CD Singles will only really be bought by the general public.. which is another debate. The whole mainstream hardcore issue is a strange one and I dont think there is a right answer for and against it. All I will say is that all previous genres of underground music that have gone mainstream have suffered a great deal in terms of quality and originality. I really dont want this to happen to hardcore :)
Inferno is also quite right about rare songs being eliminated, any song you own that is classed as rare on vinyl is going to lose its value a great deal thanks to people with CDDecks downloading the mp3 rips and using them instead. I think DJing as a whole will suffer from CDDecks, the whole mystery of finding a real gem of a tune that is totally obscure and rare will be lost.. CD's dont have the magic of Vinyl.
pacman also makes a good point, CD's like that will be readily available in the future and even if they arent sold they will be passed around. Everyone will be able to get their hands on any rare tune thats been ripped and all DJ's would end up with the same load of tunes, which is bad for the people as we would begin to lose diversity.
CDDecks do have advantages when showcasing new talent however, its easy to put your latest few tracks on a CD-R and be able to play it out. Currently with Dub Plates being the main form of showcasing new tunes about the place and with those being so expensive I can understand why new talent like CDDecks. I am all for new talent being showcased on CDDecks, my main gripe with them is the damage they and the mp3 scene can do to vinyl and the DJ industry as a whole..
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| DJ Affliction |
quote:
Originally posted by Skyler:
strychnine: I didnt say CD's were to blame for piracy, I am merely trying to show the damage that they can and will do to vinyl and the whole scene.
Having CDDecks allows someone to download from an almost unlimited supply of hardcore music. They can download almost any tune in your record collection and play them out, only they have not paid for it. Do you think that is fair to anyone? With CDDecks its a lot easier to excuse yourself from buying the music.
Years ago the mp3 scene was for DJ's by DJ's. DJ's ripped mp3s for each other so they could test out new promos and work out what they wanted to buy. They couldnt DJ with them because they werent vinyl, so they always went out and bought the vinyl of the tracks they liked. This kind of activity helped the hardcore scene a huge amount, it spread the hardcore sound around to far more people and pretty much increased sales. Now CDDecks are a real viable option for DJ's (moreso than they have been in the past) those who download the mp3s no longer need purchase the vinyl to play them out. Once they have the mp3 rips they wont really feel like buying the CD Single either, as they already have something the same quality and all they are effectively paying for is a label (and supporting the artist). Less people will buy vinyl, and CD Singles will only really be bought by the general public.. which is another debate. The whole mainstream hardcore issue is a strange one and I dont think there is a right answer for and against it. All I will say is that all previous genres of underground music that have gone mainstream have suffered a great deal in terms of quality and originality. I really dont want this to happen to hardcore :)
Inferno is also quite right about rare songs being eliminated, any song you own that is classed as rare on vinyl is going to lose its value a great deal thanks to people with CDDecks downloading the mp3 rips and using them instead. I think DJing as a whole will suffer from CDDecks, the whole mystery of finding a real gem of a tune that is totally obscure and rare will be lost.. CD's dont have the magic of Vinyl.
pacman also makes a good point, CD's like that will be readily available in the future and even if they arent sold they will be passed around. Everyone will be able to get their hands on any rare tune thats been ripped and all DJ's would end up with the same load of tunes, which is bad for the people as we would begin to lose diversity.
CDDecks do have advantages when showcasing new talent however, its easy to put your latest few tracks on a CD-R and be able to play it out. Currently with Dub Plates being the main form of showcasing new tunes about the place and with those being so expensive I can understand why new talent like CDDecks. I am all for new talent being showcased on CDDecks, my main gripe with them is the damage they and the mp3 scene can do to vinyl and the DJ industry as a whole..
Wow wot a long response!!!!!!!
Sum1 has a bit 2much time on their hands
Hardcore u know the score!!!!!!
DJ Affliction |
| Stevie c |
erm, i just did that on yah or nah thread, but it was my 290 post, so ithough it should be worth it
Your into the sound of Rebellion |
| CDJay |
I'm speechless. Lost for words. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
The logic in evidence here is truly astounding, do any of you work for a government?
This anti CD crap is using the same arguments a lot of people ( and studios ) used when DVD first came along. Talk of how "if it was cracked" ( which it was, very quickly ) it would kill the home video market dead.
No1 even saw the proliferation of broadband and DivX coming, hell they'd have had a heart attack.
The amusing thing? DVD is MAKING these studios now, the sales are beyond any rational expectation, it's the fastest selling consumer tech or media platform. Ever.
Anyone who tries to use these tired theories about piracy to curb progress is... well I won't say what I think. It's not nice tho.
End of rant.
CDJay
"Are Eph You?" |
| Ruffage |
To all the people who think CDs and CDJs are the root of all evil, and will bring down the hardcore scene; clearly you're very much right.
Let us consider the following:
The popularity and use of CDJs and similar in the hardcore scene has increased from next to unheard-of to something that's commonplace today.
If your theories were correct, one would expect vinyl sales to be inversely proportional to this over the same period of time (read: vinyl sales go down).
Now then, as most of us know, vinyl sales have been steadily increasing over the past two years, and show no signs of letting up.
So, to summarise (just in case you missed the point):
Vinyl sales have risen despite CDJs being significantly more popular over the same period of time.
Ruffage
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| rezzna |
the main issue here is that vinyl is traditional, its been around since whenever, and they dont want to see their vinyls pushed asidde to make way for cds. i can totally understand why, vinyls are great media, walking out of a shop with a bag full of 12" music is so much mor satisfying than aload of piddly little cds. Piracy isnt the issue, the issue is no one wants to see labels stop production of vinyl to focus on cd production, which is a very real threat in the not too distant future.
the difference in manufacturing cost means huge increases in profit for the labels, cheaper choons for the consumer, and easier distribution.
its perfectly possible for any CDJ to put all their vinyl on to cd for quite a small amount of time and effort, so they can choose to DJ cds or vinyl, whatever their preference.
i dont want to see vinyl die, but there is a chance that it will. no matter how much the consumer protests at losing their vinyl, the producer will get what they want.
its different for hardcore, because its a far more personal relationship between producer and consumer, i mean we can quite easily get in direct contact with some of the biggest names in the uk scene, but when big dance labels stop it because they are more like big business, vinyl pressing as a means of production will change immensely.
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| CDJay |
surely no1 believes that CD is going to replace vinyl, in this scene at least, anytime soon?
Even the most ardent pro-CD people ( such as myself ), who doesn't like vinyl at all, thinks that the ideal scenario is where there is choice! That's vinyl AND CD.
I think a fair few people would actually buy both a vinyl and CD version of a release they really liked.
CDJay
"Are Eph You?" |
| rezzna |
not anytime soon no, as the vinyl users far outumbers cd users, but im looking at it from a producers point of view.
as cddecks beome more and more populer, perhaps in 5, 10, even 20 years time, producers are going to start phasing out vinyl production, as its so expensive.
theres nothing malicious in the producers intent, its just pure economics.
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| strychnine |
quote:
Originally posted by pacman:
while i won't state any reasonable arugment, i will say this. imagine what damage it will do if/when one can buy 600-700 songs on one mp3cd for about $20... think about it
They can do that already.
quote:
Originally posted by Skyler:
Having CDDecks allows someone to download from an almost unlimited supply of hardcore music. They can download almost any tune in your record collection and play them out, only they have not paid for it. Do you think that is fair to anyone? With CDDecks its a lot easier to excuse yourself from buying the music.
True ... but not having the music available on CD in the first place does pretty much the same thing. Removing CD decks from the market is not an option, so you might as well give CDJ's a chance to buy the music instead of being forced to pirate it.
Like Oli G said, people are already ripping full high-quality mp3's from vinyl and sharing them, but there are still a lot of people who by records. People have been ripping CD releases (mixes etc) and sharing them for a very long time, but Anabolic Frolic is still the 3rd biggest seller of electronic music in N America. My point is that while CD singles will increase piracy (let's not be stupid here), I think that there will still be an overall increase in sales arising from the offering of a cheaper and more accessible medium for people to buy their hardcore on, and I feel that increased overall sales will justify any associated increase in "lost sales" which, let's face it, you were never gonna see anyway.
Oh and another thing, in response to everyone who says that non-DJ's can still buy mix CD's: (1) only a bare fraction of releases will make it onto a licensed mix, so the non-DJ's range of choice is severely limited, and (2) the DJ's artform by definition involves manipulating and changing the music in some way or another, so it can be argued that the listener isn't allowed to appreciate the track entirely as the producer wrote it.
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| atomicb |
strychnine, you're on another roll! ;) (and one day I'll learn how to spell your name instead of copying and pasting it each time :P).
If you look at the big picture, piracy isn't always bad. Piracy is the reason I have spent 300+ pounds in a year on hardcore vinyl (alot of money I hope you'd agree, even more so to someone of my quite young age of 16). So I pirated about 30 quids worth of hardcore in my time (back in the days where it seemed suspicous that all happy hardcore seemed to be made by mr frolic ;)) but then I spent this huge amount on cd's and vinyl as soon as I find out what it was.
If I hadn't pirtated that bit of hardcore, I wouldn't have spent the rest, hence I'm saying that for me the piracy, followed by the sales, was for the greater good. Now I know the scene, know the lables, I'll never pirate hardcore again, and I dnt share my (legally!!) ripped copies of bonkers 8 + 9.
In all but a few rare cases (the people that do this are twats IMO), if a resnobly priced alternative exists that they know of, people will *not* pirate stuff. i.e. *most* music from loved artists, favorite films. You can get all of this for free, but why? why do it when you like it? just by the damn stuff coz you wan't to put ure money where your mouth is. This is how I feel with hardcore. Anything I really like, I buy, even if I can download it.
The reason piracy exists in hardcore is because as we've discussed there's no viable alternative. If I wanted 90% of the tracks I have on vinyl on a cd so I could listen to then, I'm screwed - only way is to download and rip them. Clearly this isn't good, but I can see why it happens. The point (which amazingly I'm still remebering this far in) is that CD DJ tech isn't the cause of this, it just highlights the problem.
The problem being - joe public can't get hardcore release X legally if he doesn't have a deck. I *love* decks for dj'ing, but clearly tech has moved on for normal music use - cd's, MD, mp3's . . . The producers should prick thier ears up and realise they are losing revenue they could have! Hopefully they'll catch on and sell them at some point.
As it's also been said, CD DJ'ing is never going to over take vinyl - vinyl won't go down without a fight! Vinyl is still very much the medium of the DJ, but CD's have thier uses - Both can easily survive at the same time.
peace out ;)
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| strychnine |
Yeah it's been a while since we had a good ol' serious discussion in these parts ... w00t for teh argumentcore massive, y0!!!!!!!!!!!11
Anyway, back on-topic, I agree with pretty much everything you said except ...
quote:
Originally posted by atomicb:
If I wanted 90% of the tracks I have on vinyl on a cd so I could listen to then, I'm screwed - only way is to download and rip them.
Nah you can actually (legally) rip the tracks off vinyl onto your HDD, then burn as many copies as you want for personal use. Mind you, you gotta remember to destroy every copy if you ever get rid of the record, else the RIAA will send an elite task force to your house and kill your family and rape your dog or something.
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Nothing is random. You were meant to read this. |
| tommo |
Hehe.
Returning to the topic:
I don't think vinyl will ever die out,they're older than God.Hehe.
I'm actually not too keen on cds meself,theres something about tapes and
especially vinyl that fascinates me.
Im just a bassline addict
Im just a hardcore addict
Im just a dancefloor manic
Why o why cant you just accept it. |
| DJ Mouse |
lets hope so tommo,but if vinyl does die out then what can we do,we'll just have to get used to it (technics will go bankrupt or at least lose out in loads of profit unless they bring out a 1210cd or something  )
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"Did you know that eleven plus two is an anagram of twelve plus one?"
DJ Mouse |
| Skyler |
atomicb I take it you spent most of that on vinyl, which partly goes to proove a point..
If you had no conventional decks and had CDDecks instead would you of spent the same amount, knowing you didnt have to and that you could mix with your new downloads absolutely fine for £0? Knowing that you could spend all that money on something fancy like a Kaoss pad? :)
I dont think you would of spent as much money if you had such options..
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| atomicb |
honestly? you know I think I would have. I get quite passionate about the things i care about and pay for them. computer games are an example - I can easily rip the off, but I still buy the ones I like, because of the whole putting my money where my mouth is thing. Honestly I woulda baught then! But I do understand how *some* peope wouldn't.
as I said there's just some people that just pirate everything but the get a kick out of it (fight the power and all hat crap) and those people, realating to this kind of stuff is just stupid.
I can understand your concern, but I tink you assume the worst of everyone - not everone is a low down criminal! :D
EDIT: heh, just noticed the comment on tapes. My stand is diffrent here! I find it just plain wierd that tape packs still exist, and it's actually put me off buying the slammin' NYE tapes (so I can hear what I couldn't while working there). My only tapedeck is in the garage gathering.. well mould most probably :P Just a random comment :P
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| rezzna |
thas anutha good point atomicb, why do tapepacks still exist??
cds are so much cheaper to produce, jus stick six of the in a box an u laffin, as the sound qualitys guna be superior too.
everything bout hardcore music production is backwards if u think about it!
there must be a reason
"don't worry about it, if i were you i wouldn't remember me either" |
| Oli G |
quote:
thas anutha good point atomicb, why do tapepacks still exist??
yeah, why do they still exist? they are illigal... mother ****ers
:P
CAM001 Out MARCH2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy & Imo
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| tommo |
^^^
Tape Packs,Illegal???
Don't think so.
Im just a bassline addict
Im just a hardcore addict
Im just a dancefloor manic
Why o why cant you just accept it. |
| rezzna |
come to think of it they most probably are, i doubt the producers of the packs have permission from the labels that made every track on the pack to make copies and sell them.
they breach numerous copyright laws.
they kick ass though
"don't worry about it, if i were you i wouldn't remember me either" |
| DJ Mouse |
not like it makes any difference anyway,all the dj's play unreleased tunes anyway so the only money to be payed is royalties for every copy sold,they make so much from spinning the set that a few quid from a few tape pack won't make alot of difference.
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"Did you know that eleven plus two is an anagram of twelve plus one?"
DJ Mouse |
| Oli G |
quote:
Tape Packs,Illegal???
Don't think so.
they are, weather they have permission of the djs playing or not, if the tune isnt owned by the dj playing it then that artist is due royalties... hence the illigal ness
i wasnt saying tape packs arnt good, there great to listen to sets n stuff, but there illigal
CAM001 Out MARCH2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy & Imo
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_ |
| tommo |
Come to think of it,yes they are illegal.
They're breaking all kinds of copyright laws.They still rool though.
Im just a bassline addict
Im just a hardcore addict
Im just a dancefloor manic
Why o why cant you just accept it. |
| silver |
Tape packs are illegal, when you are selling that many packs and not giving the artists (the people who own the tunes) any money that is stealing.
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you, me and hardcore forever. |
