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Is hardcore the uncoolest it has ever been?

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Elliott	I'm interested in other people's opinions/experiences with this. I've only been listening to hardcore for about 6 years so I have no experience of its public perception before then. It seems to me that the general perception of hardcore amongst non-listeners who are aware of the genre is currently the worst it has been in those 6 years. When I first got into hardcore in 2008, it was actually reasonably "in". I would hear people in my peer groups listening to CXH 4. Hardcore got played at house parties (often by me but other people would happily dance to it). It was almost fashionable in my area at that time and it was certainly acceptable. When I tried the same thing recently, I was told to turn "that faggy shit" off. It was unanimous that listening to hardcore was unfashionable, uncool and weird. Now, I don't care about that shit at all - I will admit my love of hardcore to anyone who asks - but it got me thinking about how the fickle public opinion of hardcore has changed over time. I'd like some more stories about it, if anyone has any to share.
Elipton	All my friends say it's crap now, but one or two did used to enjoy it. But remember, it's not solely about it coming into fashion or falling of it, it's whether people outgrow it too
latininxtc	hardcore has always been considered "uncool" and that doesn't look like it's ever going to change. It's a niche genre and that means only a select few around the world properly enjoy it.
djDMS	Anybody listening to Hardcore because it's 'cool' or 'in' is barking up the wrong tree. The very few times it's looked like gaining some decent momentum, somebody has come along with the 'next big sound' and ballsed it up. Those with genuine crossover appeal like Styles, Gammer to some extent, and F&D (if they really went for it), are very much in a minority. And if they can't get anywhere with spreading the word no-one can. Over the years, I've successfully got loads of people interested in Hardcore, but the one thing that's always bugged me is that I've had to go down the cheesy vocal/rip route to get them there.
AceofSpades_Lorenzo	This discussion made me think of this :x
trippnface	if it was not for HU ; i would agree haha. i get alot of shit for it but honestly; i think the early actual happy hardcore is the uncoolest it ever was. actually not even the early breakbeaty stuff but the 4x4 happy shit that came after. i think the real good UK hardcore that is being released right now; near(almost) rivals any of my favorite mid 2000'y stuff. i guess it's subjective to when you got in the scene and what you really liked about it though. the energy and power of uk hardcore is way cooler to me than any old happy hardcore.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: I'm interested in other people's opinions/experiences with this. I've only been listening to hardcore for about 6 years so I have no experience of its public perception before then. It seems to me that the general perception of hardcore amongst non-listeners who are aware of the genre is currently the worst it has been in those 6 years. When I first got into hardcore in 2008, it was actually reasonably "in". I would hear people in my peer groups listening to CXH 4. Hardcore got played at house parties (often by me but other people would happily dance to it). It was almost fashionable in my area at that time and it was certainly acceptable. When I tried the same thing recently, I was told to turn "that faggy shit" off. It was unanimous that listening to hardcore was unfashionable, uncool and weird. Now, I don't care about that shit at all - I will admit my love of hardcore to anyone who asks - but it got me thinking about how the fickle public opinion of hardcore has changed over time. I'd like some more stories about it, if anyone has any to share. "turn that faggy shit off" wait but these people listen to other dance music?0.o isn't trap & bigroom house the faggy shit? sounds like people just got dumber or something xp
Hard2Get	I'm pretty sure it was much more uncool when it was 'happy'. Either way it's never been cool. What you experienced is just what it has always been like. Maybe for a brief period it was more acceptable but only the stuff that sounded like pop anyway so that doesn't really mean anything.
DJ_FunDaBounce	I think we have to set a clear definition of what "cool" is. If it means mainstream acceptance, then I agree on it practically never having been. To me, it means having something in it's form/shape(aesthetics?) that just gives you goosebumps/makes you rush and feel alive. It is being on the cutting edge of emotiveness. Pure soul. imo, every outstanding producer in the hardcore scene has given it just that, making it "cool" in my book, at least.
DJ T33	Hahah this takes me back to college where I did a DJ & Electronic Music Production Diploma, there was roughly 50 odd pupils on it and I was the only one who listened to Happy Hardcore. I remember the first week and everyone did a mix in front of people which got graded. The friendship groups were soon separated by genre being Deep House & House being a large group who were all taking vallium and of which most dropped out. The dubstep kidz (when dubstep seemed to be a thing) who then moved on to big room house and trap which were all the douchbag dre beats wearing stereotype who were all up there own arse hated anything melodic. The drum and bass boys who were essentially 'badmen' which consisted of a few guys. Then there's me. My turn to go up on the desks and showcase what you like. So me thinking they were open minded open minded played what I wanted and I opened with Cat Like Theif - It Starts With a Whisper (Nu Foundation Remix). One by one I saw nearly everyone walk out the room giggling and smirking hearing one of them say what the f* is this B**** ect ect leaving only 3 other people left in the room one being the tutor. I couldn't help but feeling a little angry being close to the time of mikey passing (R.I.P) and for the fact that I am an open minded person and the respect showed to me or the music was little or none. The mixed was followed by a couple of Orbit 1 tracks and some more of the HU/Next Generation tracks. At the end of the mix I received the highest grade of the group for the mix and I remember my tutor clapping telling me "Looking past the genre and music selection thats the best mix i've seen all day" This kinda made me feel a little embarrassed but at the same time a little glad that someone actually liked it. So in the next couple of days obviously already making myself an outcast tried talking to people in my group and generally making friends saying alright mate to people, all I would get in return was people completely ignoring me I mean not even acknowledging my existence or just dirty looks and here thinking 'all this because I like Happy Hardcore and its a different genre to what they listen to and its uncool?' It was a pretty depressing stage for me and a year into the course they only started talking to me because I was getting the highest grades in the course and they essentially wanted help from me which to them meant copy you, where I pretty much said 'Naaaaa' Come the end of the course I left with one of the highest grades of the lot with only 50% of the students finishing or passing the course. Although going of track a little however this is how I look back at the events of college, just because hardcore isn't cool and some people are close minded it made me an outcast. Do I care? No. I don't care if it is uncool, cheesy, gay or however else they put it. I'm not gonna change what I like and listen to just because other people don't like it because it is uncool. :)
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: It's a niche genre and that means only a select few around the world properly enjoy it. Personally, I struggle with this. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I can't understand it. The few times I've managed to corner someone open-minded enough to give hardcore a fair try, they ended up with tracks on their MP3 players. I like to believe that it's a fundamentally likeable genre but some combination of its underground status and uncool image conspire to keep it unpopular.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Anybody listening to Hardcore because it's 'cool' or 'in' is barking up the wrong tree. The very few times it's looked like gaining some decent momentum, somebody has come along with the 'next big sound' and ballsed it up. Those with genuine crossover appeal like Styles, Gammer to some extent, and F&D (if they really went for it), are very much in a minority. And if they can't get anywhere with spreading the word no-one can. Over the years, I've successfully got loads of people interested in Hardcore, but the one thing that's always bugged me is that I've had to go down the cheesy vocal/rip route to get them there. I get you. It's not the sort of thing you drive around pumping out of your car to pick up girls. I think maybe I latched on to hardcore at a high point in terms of momentum, certainly in my area. I'm fortunate that it did see a short surge in popularity or I might never have discovered it. I listened to more or less exclusively rock and metal as a teenager. I don't see why it's a problem that you had to use cheesy vocal tunes or bootlegs! CXH 4 was my entrance point and I loved the cheesy vocal stuff. Sometimes you've got to hook them in with a gateway drug (although, for me, the big vocal anthems are still the highlight of the genre!). In fact, at parties where I was in charge of the music and I wasn't sure if I was gonna be able to play hardcore, I'd always run the gamut of bootlegs. It's familiar enough to provide opportunities for a good sing-along but warms people up to the hardcore tempo. Classic tactic for forcing your own choice of music down unwilling throats!
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by DJ T33: Hahah this takes me back to college where I did a DJ & Electronic Music Production Diploma, there was roughly 50 odd pupils on it and I was the only one who listened to Happy Hardcore. I remember the first week and everyone did a mix in front of people which got graded. The friendship groups were soon separated by genre being Deep House & House being a large group who were all taking vallium and of which most dropped out. The dubstep kidz (when dubstep seemed to be a thing) who then moved on to big room house and trap which were all the douchbag dre beats wearing stereotype who were all up there own arse hated anything melodic. The drum and bass boys who were essentially 'badmen' which consisted of a few guys. Then there's me. My turn to go up on the desks and showcase what you like. So me thinking they were open minded open minded played what I wanted and I opened with Cat Like Theif - It Starts With a Whisper (Nu Foundation Remix). One by one I saw nearly everyone walk out the room giggling and smirking hearing one of them say what the f* is this B**** ect ect leaving only 3 other people left in the room one being the tutor. I couldn't help but feeling a little angry being close to the time of mikey passing (R.I.P) and for the fact that I am an open minded person and the respect showed to me or the music was little or none. The mixed was followed by a couple of Orbit 1 tracks and some more of the HU/Next Generation tracks. At the end of the mix I received the highest grade of the group for the mix and I remember my tutor clapping telling me "Looking past the genre and music selection thats the best mix i've seen all day" This kinda made me feel a little embarrassed but at the same time a little glad that someone actually liked it. So in the next couple of days obviously already making myself an outcast tried talking to people in my group and generally making friends saying alright mate to people, all I would get in return was people completely ignoring me I mean not even acknowledging my existence or just dirty looks and here thinking 'all this because I like Happy Hardcore and its a different genre to what they listen to and its uncool?' It was a pretty depressing stage for me and a year into the course they only started talking to me because I was getting the highest grades in the course and they essentially wanted help from me which to them meant copy you, where I pretty much said 'Naaaaa' Come the end of the course I left with one of the highest grades of the lot with only 50% of the students finishing or passing the course. Although going of track a little however this is how I look back at the events of college, just because hardcore isn't cool and some people are close minded it made me an outcast. Do I care? No. I don't care if it is uncool, cheesy, gay or however else they put it. I'm not gonna change what I like and listen to just because other people don't like it because it is uncool. :) Wow. Thanks for sharing! You rose to the occasion with a really great (and angering) story! It was totally relevant to this thread. Good for you for playing what you like and keeping up with it! Stuck up cnuts! And the "It Starts With A Whisper" remix is a beautiful tune. Fine choice.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: "turn that faggy shit off" wait but these people listen to other dance music?0.o isn't trap & bigroom house the faggy shit? sounds like people just got dumber or something xp Pretty much! And, yeah, these same people were happy to listen to complete ****ing tripe like Animals by Martin Garrix.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Hard2Get: I'm pretty sure it was much more uncool when it was 'happy'. Either way it's never been cool. What you experienced is just what it has always been like. Maybe for a brief period it was more acceptable but only the stuff that sounded like pop anyway so that doesn't really mean anything. Wait. You didn't like CXH4? That's upsetting. :(
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: All my friends say it's crap now, but one or two did used to enjoy it. But remember, it's not solely about it coming into fashion or falling of it, it's whether people outgrow it too That's true. Although if something was perpetually cool and popular (as hardcore ideally should be!), you would expect a constant influx of younger people replacing the older ones as they outgrow it.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by DJ T33: Hahah this takes me back to college where I did a DJ & Electronic Music Production Diploma, there was roughly 50 odd pupils on it and I was the only one who listened to Happy Hardcore. I remember the first week and everyone did a mix in front of people which got graded. The friendship groups were soon separated by genre being Deep House & House being a large group who were all taking vallium and of which most dropped out. The dubstep kidz (when dubstep seemed to be a thing) who then moved on to big room house and trap which were all the douchbag dre beats wearing stereotype who were all up there own arse hated anything melodic. The drum and bass boys who were essentially 'badmen' which consisted of a few guys. Then there's me. My turn to go up on the desks and showcase what you like. So me thinking they were open minded open minded played what I wanted and I opened with Cat Like Theif - It Starts With a Whisper (Nu Foundation Remix). One by one I saw nearly everyone walk out the room giggling and smirking hearing one of them say what the f* is this B**** ect ect leaving only 3 other people left in the room one being the tutor. I couldn't help but feeling a little angry being close to the time of mikey passing (R.I.P) and for the fact that I am an open minded person and the respect showed to me or the music was little or none. The mixed was followed by a couple of Orbit 1 tracks and some more of the HU/Next Generation tracks. At the end of the mix I received the highest grade of the group for the mix and I remember my tutor clapping telling me "Looking past the genre and music selection thats the best mix i've seen all day" This kinda made me feel a little embarrassed but at the same time a little glad that someone actually liked it. So in the next couple of days obviously already making myself an outcast tried talking to people in my group and generally making friends saying alright mate to people, all I would get in return was people completely ignoring me I mean not even acknowledging my existence or just dirty looks and here thinking 'all this because I like Happy Hardcore and its a different genre to what they listen to and its uncool?' It was a pretty depressing stage for me and a year into the course they only started talking to me because I was getting the highest grades in the course and they essentially wanted help from me which to them meant copy you, where I pretty much said 'Naaaaa' Come the end of the course I left with one of the highest grades of the lot with only 50% of the students finishing or passing the course. Although going of track a little however this is how I look back at the events of college, just because hardcore isn't cool and some people are close minded it made me an outcast. Do I care? No. I don't care if it is uncool, cheesy, gay or however else they put it. I'm not gonna change what I like and listen to just because other people don't like it because it is uncool. :) sick story ^.^ hell ya man you did it right. laughable how close-minded some people are. i guess i forget not everyone gets that same rush. their loss ;). i woulda grooved hard right when you dropped the first track haha.
Ken Masters	Interesting topic. As far as my own up bringing's concerned, there was a time in Glasgow when Hardcore certainly was "cool" or popular, to the point where people that listened to rock & indie or hip hop & rap we're the minority. & I'm not just talking dance music or even hard dance music, I'm talking hardcore/bouncy techno. This was certainly the case for the best part of the 90's, we even had hardcore played at our school "discos", & believe it or not our "drugs talks" came in the form of a QFX concert (unreal I know!). I doubt the following will be as strong now as it was back then. I just cant imagine it being played & accepted at school events now but im certain it still has it followers, in Glasgow anyway, but to answer your question, no, it isn't the in thing anymore.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by Hard2Get: I'm pretty sure it was much more uncool when it was 'happy'. Either way it's never been cool. What you experienced is just what it has always been like. Maybe for a brief period it was more acceptable but only the stuff that sounded like pop anyway so that doesn't really mean anything. Wait. You didn't like CXH4? That's upsetting. :( he's a borderline douchebag that you really shouldn't worry about. He doesn't like anything pre-2005 no matter who is making it.
CDJay	I think awareness is at the lowest it's been in a long time, perhaps ever. That said, I also think the barriers of entry are relatively low even globally. I'm moderately convinced we're going to see a real surge, Stateside, where the issue was that any dance music was deemed confusing. I remember being in Colorado in 2001 and every single dance CD was grouped together under "techno". Fast forward to 2014 where EDM is massive and there's been dance music on endless soundtracks for films peaking in recent times. As always, there's a bunch of UK Hardcore that is immediately offputting to most people who aren't familiar with it. People point at some of the Clubland Xtreme stuff as an entry point and there's no doubt it was. As was Raverbaby after the Trance/Hard House boom. IF you want someone to take the music seriously, you need to personalise that entry point. Do they say all dance music has stupid lyrics? Play something that doesn't. Do they say it's all "boom boom boom?" Play something musical. I keep blathering on about it, but I reckon "Filth And Dumb Hatred" is the closest thing to an acceptable entry point we've had for a while. CDJay
The drunken scotsman	Good topic. I got into hardcore as a 16 year old around bonkers 8-9 time. At the time all my mates loved hardcore although only a select few of us really took it up as a hobby. These days it's only me and two mates that take any sort of interest in it. At my age now it's definetely not 'cool' and I suspect that goes for the younger generation also. I'm from Edinburgh which has basically zero hardcore following and never really has even in the good old days....particularly in comparison with the rest of scotland - Glasgow especially. Darren styles played here last month and the dance floor was depressingly quiet. The dance floors in general are much quieter than they were when I started raving in 2004. That's probably the best indicator that hardcore is not cool anymore. Have to be honest I'm starting to lose interest myself.
DJBoydy	For whatever reason Hardcore has always been treated as the 'Ryanair' of music genres in the UK. Not so sure about other countries (such as Holland/Belgium) but that's the way I've seen it for the last 20 years !!
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by CDJay: I think awareness is at the lowest it's been in a long time, perhaps ever. That said, I also think the barriers of entry are relatively low even globally. I'm moderately convinced we're going to see a real surge, Stateside, where the issue was that any dance music was deemed confusing. I remember being in Colorado in 2001 and every single dance CD was grouped together under "techno". Fast forward to 2014 where EDM is massive and there's been dance music on endless soundtracks for films peaking in recent times. As always, there's a bunch of UK Hardcore that is immediately offputting to most people who aren't familiar with it. People point at some of the Clubland Xtreme stuff as an entry point and there's no doubt it was. As was Raverbaby after the Trance/Hard House boom. IF you want someone to take the music seriously, you need to personalise that entry point. Do they say all dance music has stupid lyrics? Play something that doesn't. Do they say it's all "boom boom boom?" Play something musical. I keep blathering on about it, but I reckon "Filth And Dumb Hatred" is the closest thing to an acceptable entry point we've had for a while. CDJay Yeah it's crazy how much EDM has taken off in the states. I was in Vegas for Labor Day weekend in August/September and they had big name DJ's playing every day from Thursday to Monday - Tiesto, Steve Aoki, Martin Garrix and Calvin Harris to name a few. We went to see Calvin Harris at a pool party and the vibe was amazing. Also seen pics from HTID last weekend and it looks like it was a huge success. Seems like there's a lot of potential across the Atlantic.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by DJBoydy: For whatever reason Hardcore has always been treated as the 'Ryanair' of music genres in the UK. Not so sure about other countries (such as Holland/Belgium) but that's the way I've seen it for the last 20 years !! +1 for quality analogy
Samination	But Ryanair deserves some of the (dis)credit they get. Hardcore doesn't :P Even tho sweden might be famous for some big electronic acts in the 90's (for eurodance fans), I would say that swedes themselfs hates electronic music. atleast to later years with avichi and stuff. But anything faster than 140? ILLEGAL RAVE MUSIC. Note: I don't go clubbing in Sweden, the crowd is completly different from a Hardcore club/meeting
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Samination: But Ryanair deserves some of the (dis)credit they get. Hardcore doesn't :P Even tho sweden might be famous for some big electronic acts in the 90's (for eurodance fans), I would say that swedes themselfs hates electronic music. atleast to later years with avichi and stuff. But anything faster than 140? ILLEGAL RAVE MUSIC. Note: I don't go clubbing in Sweden, the crowd is completly different from a Hardcore club/meeting True about ryanair! Clubs here have a very different crowd and atmosphere to raves as well. I have to be held up at gunpoint to be made to go to a typical club (unless it's someone's birthday and they really want to go clubbing). It's a testosterone-fuelled jungle reminiscent of an aggressive animal mating season. That environment has absolutely nothing to offer anyone who is happily taken and just looking for a civilised conversation.
djDMS	I was going to agree about the Ryanair analogy, but it would cost me an extra fiver to complete my opinion ;-)
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I was going to agree about the Ryanair analogy, but it would cost me an extra fiver to complete my opinion ;-) :D
oxis	quote: Originally posted by DJ T33: The dubstep kidz quote: giggling and smirking god damn dubstep had some genuinely nice artists why did it have to amount such a terrible fanbase recently i dont take rave music very seriously but if someone wants to be the next Datsik or DJ Snake, i will discard their point of view as soon as they make fun of something like hardcore
ConnerIntenzifi	Hardcore IMO has always been associated with more of a ned/chav culture. So it has never been cool unless you were part of this. I think when the first CXH album came out it started to gain some credibility but as they went on & it became more cheesy with more cascada bootlegs etc.. it lost it. Now with Facebook & the likes anyone who does take an interest sees the bitching going on and it probably puts them right off. It's the most unprofessional embarrassing scene about. I don't think it will ever pick up like it did in the mid 2000's. The raves back then were tremendous & no ******** well not that I took notice there probably was shit going on as usual.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by ConnerIntenzifi: Now with Facebook & the likes anyone who does take an interest sees the bitching going on and it probably puts them right off. It's the most unprofessional embarrassing scene about. Doubt that has anything to do with it. Have you seen how much bitching is going on with Hardstyle on social media lately, especially on Youtube It is far worse than what I see in UK hardcore, hell far worse than the hateful shit from ush.net.
rafferty	I don't think the entire hardcore genre has become uncool. But definitely some aspects of the scene will have a lot of people looking back now and wondering what those people were thinking. I never understood the whole dummies and gay candy shit. Made Hardcore look so bad. Started in the Trance scene and the embarrassment spread to the Hardcore scene. Then some djs like S3rl and co promoted gay candy in the music all the time. Glad the scene seems to be distancing itself from the shite completely now. I think Future World and Hardcore Underground have definitely seemed to bring back variety in the scene and credibility to the music instead of just sped up pop Trance covers and bollocks about being a candy raver that kisses fairies.
CDJay	Do not, I repeat do not, listen to HHU. CDJay
rafferty	I heard HHU was going to have a Horns and Whistles 90s Happy vibe, so I will give it a chance:) I just hate the 2000's Trance stuff that is about being a fairy and wearing candy like S3rl does lol
Samination	quote: Originally posted by rafferty: I heard HHU was going to have a Horns and Whistles 90s Happy vibe, so I will give it a chance:) I just hate the 2000's Trance stuff that is about being a fairy and wearing candy like S3rl does lol but you cant deny that it fits better with Hardcore than Trance :P Or do you prefer Hardcore to associated with drunk and trigger happy chavs?
rafferty	quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: I heard HHU was going to have a Horns and Whistles 90s Happy vibe, so I will give it a chance:) I just hate the 2000's Trance stuff that is about being a fairy and wearing candy like S3rl does lol but you cant deny that it fits better with Hardcore than Trance :P Or do you prefer Hardcore to associated with drunk and trigger happy chavs? Haha, I'm not sure man. The whole Candy thing seemed to start with the Gatecrasher Trance club and their cyber raver thing. If you ever watch original 90s Hardcore events like Rezerection and Helter Skelter on youtube. It was nearly all street and sportswear worn. I am sure they are nice people candy ravers, but I have to admit when I started seeing dudes wearing teletubby t-shirts with dummies in their mouths at parties.. We were all thinking who are these trippers. Think it kind of split the Dutch and UK hardcore scene further apart too as the Dutch never got into it.
The drunken scotsman	To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-)
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by rafferty: I don't think the entire hardcore genre has become uncool. But definitely some aspects of the scene will have a lot of people looking back now and wondering what those people were thinking. I never understood the whole dummies and gay candy shit. Made Hardcore look so bad. Started in the Trance scene and the embarrassment spread to the Hardcore scene. Then some djs like S3rl and co promoted gay candy in the music all the time. Glad the scene seems to be distancing itself from the shite completely now. I think Future World and Hardcore Underground have definitely seemed to bring back variety in the scene and credibility to the music instead of just sped up pop Trance covers and bollocks about being a candy raver that kisses fairies. Don't be homophobic bro. I'm sure most gays find that candy shit cringy as well!
Elipton	I need to go to a cyber goth hard house night again. I think I was at one when I was meant to be in the Freeform room at Sinistry last year. One of the most crazy experiences of my life - I loved it haha It was definitely more cool
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) I'm American and yes the candy kid phase is mostly an American thing. I find it to be a terrible fad and the candy kids themselves I find obnoxious as fuck.
jordesuvi	This post peaked my interest enough for me to chime in. There'll be some errors in the way I word this, I might start rambling and I'll probably delete this post soon but here we go: How non listeners view hardcore: From what I've gathered in my experience, the main demographic of hardcore listeners are the "happy chavs" and the "likely-has-an-anime-pic-as-an-avatar" guy. For starts, I can imagine it can be frightening to a typical mainstream listener to be even remotely associated with any of those types of people. I know most hardcore fans like their MC's but when I see them perform in a vest and a baseball cap it only strengthens the happy chav stereotype. Almost any time I've exposed someone to hardcore the first reaction has always been "it's too fast", although that reaction is always weird to me because they'll go and listen to the latest Sigma tune at the same BPM. Even when hardcore had funding for music videos the track has been played at 150-160bpm (Anybody Else But You, Outta My Head, You're Shining etc). Typically in a popular mainstream EDM track the song will either focus on the following. 1. The drop 2. Sex/booty/turning up 3. Addressing a crowd with "we" I know there's cases where other tracks trickle into the spotlight but there's the current trend. College kids looking to party want music about turning up and ass. While that's happening, hardcore is releasing tracks with lyrics about rainbows and fairies and dancing all night. Klubbed Up and HU sometimes release music with more relatable lyrics about love or whatever but those two labels seem to market their music towards their pre-existing fan base and it never gets further than that. Hardcore and PLUR sorta went hand-in-hand for a while but due to trading kandi beads often being correlated to drug use PLUR has become a bit of a mockery. Diplo even banned kandi at an event because he thought all those were people on MDMA. Krewella have been supporting Futureworld through their sets by playing more bassline oriented hardcore from the likes of those such as Tyl3r and Breeze. I attended their set at Global Gathering this year and when they dropped those tracks a lot of the crowd didn't know what to do, you had the hardcore fans bouncing along - of course. However vast majority of the crowd stood nodding their head a little. Also, some of the older hardcore listeners are so reminiscent on the 90's happy raves or that little spike in popularity hardcore had around 07-08 that they refuse to accept the evolution of the genre. Resulting in forum members here leaving posts such as "hardcore just isn't good anymore". A lot of you are thanking HU for their diverse releases and while it's true that they are a quality label it needs to be understood that outside of the UK it's a lot more rare to find happy chavs, so instead you have all your anime fanatics from around the world support the more "colourful" side of hardcore, hence why that's so popular. I'm not sure if this is anything to do with anything but a lot of the big hardcore producers aren't exactly in their 20's anymore. Your average DJ that you'll see on the mainstage at festivals is probably some skinny dude varying from 17-27 years old. nanobii made an bit of a mark on hardcore when he brought out Rainbow Road. Besides S3RL I'd say he's one of the only other producers that gets significant views on YouTube, especially since that track earned him a release on Monstercat. To increase hardcore's popularity I'd probably go around slowly re-introducing it again such as having tracks feature at the back of dance compilation albums.
Claxton	quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: This post peaked my interest enough for me to chime in. There'll be some errors in the way I word this, I might start rambling and I'll probably delete this post soon but here we go: How non listeners view hardcore: From what I've gathered in my experience, the main demographic of hardcore listeners are the "happy chavs" and the "likely-has-an-anime-pic-as-an-avatar" guy. For starts, I can imagine it can be frightening to a typical mainstream listener to be even remotely associated with any of those types of people. I know most hardcore fans like their MC's but when I see them perform in a vest and a baseball cap it only strengthens the happy chav stereotype. Almost any time I've exposed someone to hardcore the first reaction has always been "it's too fast", although that reaction is always weird to me because they'll go and listen to the latest Sigma tune at the same BPM. Even when hardcore had funding for music videos the track has been played at 150-160bpm (Anybody Else But You, Outta My Head, You're Shining etc). Typically in a popular mainstream EDM track the song will either focus on the following. 1. The drop 2. Sex/booty/turning up 3. Addressing a crowd with "we" I know there's cases where other tracks trickle into the spotlight but there's the current trend. College kids looking to party want music about turning up and ass. While that's happening, hardcore is releasing tracks with lyrics about rainbows and fairies and dancing all night. Klubbed Up and HU sometimes release music with more relatable lyrics about love or whatever but those two labels seem to market their music towards their pre-existing fan base and it never gets further than that. Hardcore and PLUR sorta went hand-in-hand for a while but due to trading kandi beads often being correlated to drug use PLUR has become a bit of a mockery. Diplo even banned kandi at an event because he thought all those were people on MDMA. Krewella have been supporting Futureworld through their sets by playing more bassline oriented hardcore from the likes of those such as Tyl3r and Breeze. I attended their set at Global Gathering this year and when they dropped those tracks a lot of the crowd didn't know what to do, you had the hardcore fans bouncing along - of course. However vast majority of the crowd stood nodding their head a little. Also, some of the older hardcore listeners are so reminiscent on the 90's happy raves or that little spike in popularity hardcore had around 07-08 that they refuse to accept the evolution of the genre. Resulting in forum members here leaving posts such as "hardcore just isn't good anymore". A lot of you are thanking HU for their diverse releases and while it's true that they are a quality label it needs to be understood that outside of the UK it's a lot more rare to find happy chavs, so instead you have all your anime fanatics from around the world support the more "colourful" side of hardcore, hence why that's so popular. I'm not sure if this is anything to do with anything but a lot of the big hardcore producers aren't exactly in their 20's anymore. Your average DJ that you'll see on the mainstage at festivals is probably some skinny dude varying from 17-27 years old. nanobii made an bit of a mark on hardcore when he brought out Rainbow Road. Besides S3RL I'd say he's one of the only other producers that gets significant views on YouTube, especially since that track earned him a release on Monstercat. To increase hardcore's popularity I'd probably go around slowly re-introducing it again such as having tracks feature at the back of dance compilation albums. You're probably going to get pulled up for the bit in bold and rightly so.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by Claxton: quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: HU sometimes release music with more relatable lyrics about love or whatever but those two labels seem to market their music towards their pre-existing fan base and it never gets further than that. You're probably going to get pulled up for the bit in bold and rightly so. I agree. Absolutely, and I've preached that before. There's not a massive urgency to expand or reach out to anyone other than an existing but withering customer-base.
jordesuvi	I'd find it disappointing for me to address so many things just to get called out on a small statement about HU that wasn't even one of my major points. Since the topic covers non-listeners perception of hardcore I'm simply using that statement to explain one of the reasons why it's rare for hardcore to make it to a non-listeners ear in the first place.
AceofSpades_Lorenzo	Here's something to think about; for the VIP package at HTID USA. This really has nothing to do with the previous posts besides it's HU. They put in a free copy of "Filth & Dumb Hatred" in the package. There will always be that fan base in hardcore that doesn't know much about it besides like Hixxy, Darren Styles, Gammer etc. Could it possibly help people get more people slightly in the genre? Maybe a few but hell; a few that weren't there before. HU isn't 100% for the average fan; but yeah- There's always a chance it could possibly be someday. :x
Claxton	quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: I'd find it disappointing for me to address so many things just to get called out on a small statement about HU that wasn't even one of my major points. Since the topic covers non-listeners perception of hardcore I'm simply using that statement to explain one of the reasons why it's rare for hardcore to make it to a non-listeners ear in the first place. Valid point. I agree with most of what you say in the early part of your post. Hardcore simply isn't fashionable in the UK and it is a withering fanbase at the moment. However, globally there is huge potential for the genre to grow where the same 'chav' stigma isn't attached to the music. Darren Styles playing at events such as EDC is only going to help raise awareness of the genre and as you alluded to, high profile remixes and releases also help. Hardcore Underground have been very active in pushing hardcore beyond the existing fanbase. They released 'Filth & Dumb Hatred' into mainstream outlets to try and reach a wider audience. They are performing at multi-genre raves. They are getting consistent tracks on the Liquicity channel on Youtube. The list goes on. Pushing such a small genre beyond its current clientele is an extremely difficult thing to do. What would you suggest Olly? You're a pretty creative guy who can think abstractly?
CDJay	No one needs pulling on anything. It's 100% accurate; the entire year had been focused on fan service and retention. That's not all we want to do and, frankly, if we got a bit more support industry side we would already be infinitely more effective. I have some good ideas about what is needed, but survival comes first. The infrastructure is in place, and the better that sits the more options we have. Sadly I really, really, don't think anyone else is going to do anything about it. CDJay
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Claxton: However, globally there is huge potential for the genre to grow where the same 'chav' stigma isn't attached to the music. The great thing about this would be that we could then reimport our own music stigma-free because it would've gained an element of respectability from its global reach. Ah, a guy can dream.
CDJay	Yeah, that's pretty much my current angle. CDJay
jordesuvi	Personally, I find hardcore is actually growing within the anime side of it. As far as I'm aware conventions actually pull in pretty big crowds in America, particularly Florida. Japan's hardcore scene, although fairly small is growing and is at least at the point where for the last few years they have imported DJ's from other countries to play events (Rhythmics, Kevin Energy, S3RL, Eufeion etc) It's also important that we pay attention to and support newer faces in the scene. Chasers, Vau Boy, Exhilaration, etc. All whose productions get better with each release they put out. You may not like the style of music they create but since the EDM wave it's allowed dance music, including hardcore to become more versatile and creative. Five years ago I doubt many people would have even conceived the idea of a hardcore track with trap influence but over this past year I've heard several of them. Even the newer labels such as Rusty Records and Justice Hardcore are also doing great things that are going unnoticed. IYF & Nobody have been putting out a range of releases varying from the classic melodic UK Hardcore sound to the newer more Dubcore/Hardcore Rave sound You also should know mainstream DJ's play a lot of different genre's depending on what their field is. Bass music DJ's usually have the BPM's of their sets flying all over the place. Since hardcore can match up to the BPM of both drumstep and drum & bass we shouldn't ignore this factor and perhaps it would be worth considering for hardcore to consider taking the hands of these genres for acceptance if we're looking to seek for more popularity within our genre.
djchexmixer	quote: Originally posted by CDJay: That said, I also think the barriers of entry are relatively low even globally. I'm moderately convinced we're going to see a real surge, Stateside, where the issue was that any dance music was deemed confusing. I remember being in Colorado in 2001 and every single dance CD was grouped together under "techno". Fast forward to 2014 where EDM is massive and there's been dance music on endless soundtracks for films peaking in recent times. I have been hoping for this "surge" you mention since "EDM" became popular here. But the "EDM" fade has been around for quite some time and I lost hope the "surge" for Hardcore will happen. I still want it to.. As far as the "coolness" of Hardcore, like some posts have mentioned, if you mean "coolness" in terms of popularity, at least here in the states Hardcore it has never seemed or felt popular. Had its high time perhaps late 90s early 00s. Even EDC, though new, had a Hardcore room in its early years (2001 they booked Robbie Long) If you mean "coolness" in terms of the attitude people have towards the genre, for the most part I've had no negative reactions from people who don't listen to Hardcore. There are tracks I share with my non-Hardcore friends that they really dig. Sometimes I'm hanging out with them in the car and they have their phone connected playing random tracks, suddenly some Hardcore songs goes on, haha.
djchexmixer	quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: Personally, I find hardcore is actually growing within the anime side of it. As far as I'm aware conventions actually pull in pretty big crowds in America, particularly Florida. Hardcore and Anime. Or perhaps particular Japanese Hardcore. 2010 SoCal Anime convention booked M-Project. Not sure if they still book any type of Hardcore for their dance events out here. I wasn't aware of the M-Project booking until after.... so unfortunately for me I did not see him play.
Samination	quote: Originally posted by djchexmixer: quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: Personally, I find hardcore is actually growing within the anime side of it. As far as I'm aware conventions actually pull in pretty big crowds in America, particularly Florida. Hardcore and Anime. Or perhaps particular Japanese Hardcore. 2010 SoCal Anime convention booked M-Project. Not sure if they still book any type of Hardcore for their dance events out here. I wasn't aware of the M-Project booking until after.... so unfortunately for me I did not see him play. IF it wasn't for Silver & Happyhardcore.com in 2005, I would never had known about the japanese stuff until later
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by djchexmixer: I have been hoping for this "surge" you mention since "EDM" became popular here. But the "EDM" fade has been around for quite some time and I lost hope the "surge" for Hardcore will happen. I still want it to.. As far as the "coolness" of Hardcore, like some posts have mentioned, if you mean "coolness" in terms of popularity, at least here in the states Hardcore it has never seemed or felt popular. Had its high time perhaps late 90s early 00s. Even EDC, though new, had a Hardcore room in its early years (2001 they booked Robbie Long) If you mean "coolness" in terms of the attitude people have towards the genre, for the most part I've had no negative reactions from people who don't listen to Hardcore. There are tracks I share with my non-Hardcore friends that they really dig. Sometimes I'm hanging out with them in the car and they have their phone connected playing random tracks, suddenly some Hardcore songs goes on, haha.
djchexmixer	lol ...
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by Captain Triceps: quote: Originally posted by djchexmixer: I have been hoping for this "surge" you mention since "EDM" became popular here. But the "EDM" fade has been around for quite some time and I lost hope the "surge" for Hardcore will happen. I still want it to.. As far as the "coolness" of Hardcore, like some posts have mentioned, if you mean "coolness" in terms of popularity, at least here in the states Hardcore it has never seemed or felt popular. Had its high time perhaps late 90s early 00s. Even EDC, though new, had a Hardcore room in its early years (2001 they booked Robbie Long) If you mean "coolness" in terms of the attitude people have towards the genre, for the most part I've had no negative reactions from people who don't listen to Hardcore. There are tracks I share with my non-Hardcore friends that they really dig. Sometimes I'm hanging out with them in the car and they have their phone connected playing random tracks, suddenly some Hardcore songs goes on, haha.
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by Captain Triceps: quote: Originally posted by djchexmixer: I have been hoping for this "surge" you mention since "EDM" became popular here. But the "EDM" fade has been around for quite some time and I lost hope the "surge" for Hardcore will happen. I still want it to.. As far as the "coolness" of Hardcore, like some posts have mentioned, if you mean "coolness" in terms of popularity, at least here in the states Hardcore it has never seemed or felt popular. Had its high time perhaps late 90s early 00s. Even EDC, though new, had a Hardcore room in its early years (2001 they booked Robbie Long) If you mean "coolness" in terms of the attitude people have towards the genre, for the most part I've had no negative reactions from people who don't listen to Hardcore. There are tracks I share with my non-Hardcore friends that they really dig. Sometimes I'm hanging out with them in the car and they have their phone connected playing random tracks, suddenly some Hardcore songs goes on, haha. Hahaha I can't help but read the post in a doctor evil voice now.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by djchexmixer: quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: Personally, I find hardcore is actually growing within the anime side of it. As far as I'm aware conventions actually pull in pretty big crowds in America, particularly Florida. Hardcore and Anime. Or perhaps particular Japanese Hardcore. 2010 SoCal Anime convention booked M-Project. Not sure if they still book any type of Hardcore for their dance events out here. I wasn't aware of the M-Project booking until after.... so unfortunately for me I did not see him play. i should beat the shit out of myself for not being there... so pissed.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: Personally, I find hardcore is actually growing within the anime side of it. As far as I'm aware conventions actually pull in pretty big crowds in America, particularly Florida. Japan's hardcore scene, although fairly small is growing and is at least at the point where for the last few years they have imported DJ's from other countries to play events (Rhythmics, Kevin Energy, S3RL, Eufeion etc) It's also important that we pay attention to and support newer faces in the scene. Chasers, Vau Boy, Exhilaration, etc. All whose productions get better with each release they put out. You may not like the style of music they create but since the EDM wave it's allowed dance music, including hardcore to become more versatile and creative. Five years ago I doubt many people would have even conceived the idea of a hardcore track with trap influence but over this past year I've heard several of them. Even the newer labels such as Rusty Records and Justice Hardcore are also doing great things that are going unnoticed. IYF & Nobody have been putting out a range of releases varying from the classic melodic UK Hardcore sound to the newer more Dubcore/Hardcore Rave sound You also should know mainstream DJ's play a lot of different genre's depending on what their field is. Bass music DJ's usually have the BPM's of their sets flying all over the place. Since hardcore can match up to the BPM of both drumstep and drum & bass we shouldn't ignore this factor and perhaps it would be worth considering for hardcore to consider taking the hands of these genres for acceptance if we're looking to seek for more popularity within our genre. definitely agree with alot of this; tons of artists you help showcase that deserve way more exposure. and the anime/hardcore/japanese influence is definitely something i see growing. perhaps nobody would of conceived of putting trap in hardcore 5 years ago; imo because it is just a bad idea. now it is commerical enough people think they can get big off it; i see no other reason for it being in hardcore. the people that like trap in hardcore are not even close to the same people that are diehard hardcore fans; that is my experience in the US. upbeat/j-core kandi kids are not the gammer/swag/futureworld supporters. different music for different mindsets. pleases one group at the risk of ostracizing others. i wouldnt mind one room being commercial/trap/bigroom/whatever popular hardcore ; and the other upbeat underground j core/uk/ breakbeat or something. cuz honestly mixing the 2 is not working ; they need to be differentiated; the sound & feeling is vastly different
trippnface	at HTID LA fracus & darwin dropping breakbeat had the place going infinitely harder than Nobody doing some weird electroy- powerstomp set ; and gammers typical melting pot of whatever he feels like ;)
latininxtc	A bit disappointed I didn't make that trip. Hopefully next year I'll have my finances in order to do some real traveling again.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: A bit disappointed I didn't make that trip. Hopefully next year I'll have my finances in order to do some real traveling again. it was really great and every other set was seriously bangin; they brought the real hardcore no doubt; sound was good; presentation was on point. it really set the standard for the future i think. they did very well; hopefully HTID will be bringing more good stuff and lots of it :D. = success. def hope to see more of the crew out next time
latininxtc	They need to bring Al Storm and Marc Smith next time. And probably some more hardcore acts I thought the hard dance and hard style acts were one too many.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: They need to bring Al Storm and Marc Smith next time. And probably some more hardcore acts I thought the hard dance and hard style acts were one too many. . oh man. agreed. if storm doesn't get out there soon it won't be good >:\| technikore too ;) yes on more hardcore too. the hard dance stage was just meh. i mean obviously not my thing but it was lacking. pretty sure the hardcore did well enough they could drop the hard dance and book uk/happy/breakbeat ; the venue was not big enough; shit was packed.
djchexmixer	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: They need to bring Al Storm and Marc Smith next time. And probably some more hardcore acts I thought the hard dance and hard style acts were one too many. . oh man. agreed. if storm doesn't get out there soon it won't be good >:\| technikore too ;) yes on more hardcore too. the hard dance stage was just meh. i mean obviously not my thing but it was lacking. pretty sure the hardcore did well enough they could drop the hard dance and book uk/happy/breakbeat ; the venue was not big enough; shit was packed. The hard dance area was perfect to get a drink, the bar there was much much much less crowded. Shit was packed indeed!
CDJay	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: at HTID LA fracus & darwin dropping breakbeat had the place going infinitely harder than Nobody doing some weird electroy- powerstomp set ; and gammers typical melting pot of whatever he feels like ;) That's yet another problem, of recent times. They can't really do that in the UK, as they once did, as it gets called "dubcore". I'd go as far as to say that the whole "dubcore" thing set back breakbeat hardcore, and general variety in the genre, a few years at least. CDJay
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by CDJay: quote: Originally posted by trippnface: at HTID LA fracus & darwin dropping breakbeat had the place going infinitely harder than Nobody doing some weird electroy- powerstomp set ; and gammers typical melting pot of whatever he feels like ;) That's yet another problem, of recent times. They can't really do that in the UK, as they once did, as it gets called "dubcore". I'd go as far as to say that the whole "dubcore" thing set back breakbeat hardcore, and general variety in the genre, a few years at least. CDJay ridiculous >.> interesting how the difference in interpretation of sound based on location or the type of people in that specific scene at that point really makes it hard to say 1 thing works for all. nobody i know would refer to breakbeat as dubcore; i can't think of one person i know that likes hardcore that does not absolutely love breakbeat. like butter and toast. disc 3 of HU6 was the favorite for tons of people! you can perceive the flow of the music; it just works. the euphoric crossover/even female vocals/speed/ make for a synergistic experience. the same cannot be said for dubcore. as much as that is my opinion; dubcore sounds forced and most people agree. i am not big on freeform at all ; can't really stand it; but i understand how it is a viable evolution of hardcore breakbeat is an integral part of hardcore history and it is clearly for a reason; they feel each other ;) cross the line had people going off like wild animals haha. dubcore does not make that fkn happen; end of story! nobody goes " aw man why did that dnb come in" but people definitely go " god damnit heres that electro dubstep sound >.>" speaking of all this; i was searching old topics and came across one about DNA and one of his final sets at slammin vinyl in which he throws down a breakbeat hardcore set; which i guess was not received too well. i think it is banging. will admit; it does become a pretty much full on dnb mix lol. that is why i love HU/ entity/ F&D/clsm/etc they really perfected the current hardcore/breakbeat sound and it damn well deserves to be there! https://soundcloud.com/number2301/dj-dna-lost-tracks-slammin
DJ_FunDaBounce	Thanx for that link, Trippnface. never had the chance to hear that set till now. I remember talk about all the mc's going wild for the mic. I'm only half way through the set, but this is ridiculous! lol at the part when mc storm calls DNA a twat for coming in a the wrong speed! wonder if that sparked any feuds!
Samination	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by CDJay: quote: Originally posted by trippnface: at HTID LA fracus & darwin dropping breakbeat had the place going infinitely harder than Nobody doing some weird electroy- powerstomp set ; and gammers typical melting pot of whatever he feels like ;) That's yet another problem, of recent times. They can't really do that in the UK, as they once did, as it gets called "dubcore". I'd go as far as to say that the whole "dubcore" thing set back breakbeat hardcore, and general variety in the genre, a few years at least. CDJay ridiculous >.> interesting how the difference in interpretation of sound based on location or the type of people in that specific scene at that point really makes it hard to say 1 thing works for all. nobody i know would refer to breakbeat as dubcore; i can't think of one person i know that likes hardcore that does not absolutely love breakbeat. like butter and toast. disc 3 of HU6 was the favorite for tons of people! you can perceive the flow of the music; it just works. the euphoric crossover/even female vocals/speed/ make for a synergistic experience. the same cannot be said for dubcore. as much as that is my opinion; dubcore sounds forced and most people agree. i am not big on freeform at all ; can't really stand it; but i understand how it is a viable evolution of hardcore breakbeat is an integral part of hardcore history and it is clearly for a reason; they feel each other ;) cross the line had people going off like wild animals haha. dubcore does not make that fkn happen; end of story! nobody goes " aw man why did that dnb come in" but people definitely go " god damnit heres that electro dubstep sound >.>" speaking of all this; i was searching old topics and came across one about DNA and one of his final sets at slammin vinyl in which he throws down a breakbeat hardcore set; which i guess was not received too well. i think it is banging. will admit; it does become a pretty much full on dnb mix lol. that is why i love HU/ entity/ F&D/clsm/etc they really perfected the current hardcore/breakbeat sound and it damn well deserves to be there! https://soundcloud.com/number2301/dj-dna-lost-tracks-slammin You cant have met many people if you say you don't know anyone who likes Hardcore that doesnt likes Breakbeat.
djDMS	I really don't understand how anybody with working ears can confuse BBHC with so called 'dubcore'. The general raving public are so ignorant it's unreal
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by CDJay: quote: Originally posted by trippnface: at HTID LA fracus & darwin dropping breakbeat had the place going infinitely harder than Nobody doing some weird electroy- powerstomp set ; and gammers typical melting pot of whatever he feels like ;) That's yet another problem, of recent times. They can't really do that in the UK, as they once did, as it gets called "dubcore". I'd go as far as to say that the whole "dubcore" thing set back breakbeat hardcore, and general variety in the genre, a few years at least. CDJay ridiculous >.> interesting how the difference in interpretation of sound based on location or the type of people in that specific scene at that point really makes it hard to say 1 thing works for all. nobody i know would refer to breakbeat as dubcore; i can't think of one person i know that likes hardcore that does not absolutely love breakbeat. like butter and toast. disc 3 of HU6 was the favorite for tons of people! you can perceive the flow of the music; it just works. the euphoric crossover/even female vocals/speed/ make for a synergistic experience. the same cannot be said for dubcore. as much as that is my opinion; dubcore sounds forced and most people agree. i am not big on freeform at all ; can't really stand it; but i understand how it is a viable evolution of hardcore breakbeat is an integral part of hardcore history and it is clearly for a reason; they feel each other ;) cross the line had people going off like wild animals haha. dubcore does not make that fkn happen; end of story! nobody goes " aw man why did that dnb come in" but people definitely go " god damnit heres that electro dubstep sound >.>" speaking of all this; i was searching old topics and came across one about DNA and one of his final sets at slammin vinyl in which he throws down a breakbeat hardcore set; which i guess was not received too well. i think it is banging. will admit; it does become a pretty much full on dnb mix lol. that is why i love HU/ entity/ F&D/clsm/etc they really perfected the current hardcore/breakbeat sound and it damn well deserves to be there! https://soundcloud.com/number2301/dj-dna-lost-tracks-slammin You cant have met many people if you say you don't know anyone who likes Hardcore that doesnt likes Breakbeat. atleast in the amount of time i have been raving the majority of people i come across dig it.especially if it is vs dub/electrocore. im not gunna speak for everyone; i obviously enjoy it :p. i know people who won't touch uk hardcore but will get down to a breakbeat hardcore track; it is a great bridge gap. maybe i just dont pay attention to the people who dont like it haha; but i have honestly not heard complaints while raving. i know some people here are not as fond; it baffles me. just differences i guess.
carldj90	I've been a fan of hardcore for 11 years now and I think it is bigger in the states then it ever was before. Then again it was hard for me to meet people in the states who liked it when I was 12 years old. Hardcore is not uncool, people who hate on hardcore are uncool.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce: Thanx for that link, Trippnface. never had the chance to hear that set till now. I remember talk about all the mc's going wild for the mic. I'm only half way through the set, but this is ridiculous! lol at the part when mc storm calls DNA a twat for coming in a the wrong speed! wonder if that sparked any feuds! lol! right xp . scratching is on point here too. always loved me some dnb...
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I really don't understand how anybody with working ears can confuse BBHC with so called 'dubcore'. The general raving public are so ignorant it's unreal Yeah, it's absurd, isn't it? I never liked the name "dubcore" when "electrocore" was much more fitting. The only track I can think of off the top of my head that had obvious dubstep influences is Screwface.
oxis	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: Yeah, it's absurd, isn't it? I never liked the name "dubcore" when "electrocore" was much more fitting. The only track I can think of off the top of my head that had obvious dubstep influences is Screwface. and even then screwface sounds more like jump up dnb. a lot of Pinnacles stuff does employ a lot of those Massive-made wobble bass synths in his tracks, so i guess dubcore does apply in that case but i have never thought of ever calling screwface dubcore.
DJAppyD1	I personally think hardcore these days is really good, i mean i started listening 2 years ago but i think hardcore is awesome these days UK Hardcore all the way! :)
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by DJAppyD1: I personally think hardcore these days is really good, i mean i started listening 2 years ago but i think hardcore is awesome these days UK Hardcore all the way! :) agreed. honestly some of my favorite vocal bangers are still quite recent in the past or even current; stuff that brings tears to my eyes :') welcome to the site :D
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by jordesuvi: This post peaked my interest enough for me to chime in. There'll be some errors in the way I word this, I might start rambling and I'll probably delete this post soon but here we go: How non listeners view hardcore: From what I've gathered in my experience, the main demographic of hardcore listeners are the "happy chavs" and the "likely-has-an-anime-pic-as-an-avatar" guy. For starts, I can imagine it can be frightening to a typical mainstream listener to be even remotely associated with any of those types of people. I know most hardcore fans like their MC's but when I see them perform in a vest and a baseball cap it only strengthens the happy chav stereotype. Almost any time I've exposed someone to hardcore the first reaction has always been "it's too fast", although that reaction is always weird to me because they'll go and listen to the latest Sigma tune at the same BPM. Even when hardcore had funding for music videos the track has been played at 150-160bpm (Anybody Else But You, Outta My Head, You're Shining etc). Typically in a popular mainstream EDM track the song will either focus on the following. 1. The drop 2. Sex/booty/turning up 3. Addressing a crowd with "we" I know there's cases where other tracks trickle into the spotlight but there's the current trend. College kids looking to party want music about turning up and ass. While that's happening, hardcore is releasing tracks with lyrics about rainbows and fairies and dancing all night. Klubbed Up and HU sometimes release music with more relatable lyrics about love or whatever but those two labels seem to market their music towards their pre-existing fan base and it never gets further than that. Hardcore and PLUR sorta went hand-in-hand for a while but due to trading kandi beads often being correlated to drug use PLUR has become a bit of a mockery. Diplo even banned kandi at an event because he thought all those were people on MDMA. Krewella have been supporting Futureworld through their sets by playing more bassline oriented hardcore from the likes of those such as Tyl3r and Breeze. I attended their set at Global Gathering this year and when they dropped those tracks a lot of the crowd didn't know what to do, you had the hardcore fans bouncing along - of course. However vast majority of the crowd stood nodding their head a little. Also, some of the older hardcore listeners are so reminiscent on the 90's happy raves or that little spike in popularity hardcore had around 07-08 that they refuse to accept the evolution of the genre. Resulting in forum members here leaving posts such as "hardcore just isn't good anymore". A lot of you are thanking HU for their diverse releases and while it's true that they are a quality label it needs to be understood that outside of the UK it's a lot more rare to find happy chavs, so instead you have all your anime fanatics from around the world support the more "colourful" side of hardcore, hence why that's so popular. I'm not sure if this is anything to do with anything but a lot of the big hardcore producers aren't exactly in their 20's anymore. Your average DJ that you'll see on the mainstage at festivals is probably some skinny dude varying from 17-27 years old. nanobii made an bit of a mark on hardcore when he brought out Rainbow Road. Besides S3RL I'd say he's one of the only other producers that gets significant views on YouTube, especially since that track earned him a release on Monstercat. To increase hardcore's popularity I'd probably go around slowly re-introducing it again such as having tracks feature at the back of dance compilation albums. I think this is all broadly true, accurate and right. To be fair, Nobody To Love had rather sparse drum work that's much easier to listen to for most people than a 4-to-the-floor kick. But I do take your point. Hardcore didn't seem aggressively fast, even when I first got into it. The one thing I don't accept is that I should put up with the devolution of hardcore. I don't have to like or approve of every album a band releases just because I like that band. I intend to whine my nuts off about hardcore until it dies or goes back to an empirically better state.
rafferty	quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) Haha yeah true, they seemed to obsessed with the candy shite there. Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible. The Hardstyle scene seems to be more like what the Hardcore scene was back in the day these days. Good heavy oldskool Hardcore Basslines and Euphoric meldies with a street wear crowd that never embraces candy. Maybe that is why defqon is doing so well. Nothing shameful in their scene. I just wish all the uplifting vocal Hardstyle guys like Headhunterz are doing was Hardcore speed.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity. The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced. The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube. Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020. Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business. Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition.
jordesuvi	I am in full support of Elipton's post. If it was possible to like or favourite forum posts I would have been all over that. You will also notice that anime has actually made its way to more mainstream/music variety based channels such as xKito, Diversity Promotions, HDdubRAVE and many more.. Despite this, I don't think I've ever seen a complaint about it in their comments sections. I have had requests by artists before to not use anime for their song and whilst I respect their wish by using a more scenic image, it's still baffling why it would be such a big deal. I recently did a survey (I deleted it after I had got the information I'd needed) and I found that a fairly large amount of the subscribers I receive found me through being enticed by a (quote:) "beautiful" thumbnail of mine in the related videos. I realize to the older generations all of this could come off as childish since cartoons and music have become a thing. But it works, it's both stimulating for the eyes and ears and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if in years down the line anime became part of an EDM artists visuals or became festival mascots. It's totally farfetched and unlikely, yes. But: If Skrillex can make Nyat Cat part of his show visuals Porter Robinson's music and show be heavily influenced by Japanese culture Pasquale Rotella can name his daughter Rainbow Ravers dress up in magenta tutu skirts, lime green fluffy boots And even the manliest of bros wear t-shirts/vests with fluorescent words on it whilst wearing colourful beads around their wrists in front of everyone at a huge festival then it's certainly possible.
brenergy	I'd also support Elipton's statement on anime and candy in Hardcore. Might not be a large part of the UK scene, but it's among the bread-and-butter of the international scene (thanks to J-Core and promoters, but I would think Konami's rhythm games might have played an influence as well, especially the tunes our man Silver was behind :V). And believe me, with the drama queens hogging the spotlight on the UK side, I'd much rather the anime and candy were a bigger part of the genre's image than the crap perpetuated by the likes of MC Storm and Scenekiller. And yeah, I'd certainly believe the statistic jor brought up about "beautiful" thumbnails helping promote Hardcore.
Elipton	Would I get a Reddit Gold thingy for that post if I put that on Reddit? :3
rafferty	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity. The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced. The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube. Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020. Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business. Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition. Jcore is probably the worst form of hardcore there is. Hardcore might have gained new fans with its anime and candy but it probably lost twice that number at the same time in Europe. Hardstyle has pretty much incorporated all the original aspects of Hardcore apart from the speed. And look what has happened, Hardstyle is now head and shoulders the biggest Hard dance genre and has djs in the top 100. People won't ever take Hardcore seriously in the wider dance scene with cringeworthy shite like anime being part of it. Look how well Future World is doing without anime or candy as part of the music.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity. The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced. The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube. Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020. Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business. Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition. Jcore is probably the worst form of hardcore there is. Hardcore might have gained new fans with its anime and candy but it probably lost twice that number at the same time in Europe. Hardstyle has pretty much incorporated all the original aspects of Hardcore apart from the speed. And look what has happened, Hardstyle is now head and shoulders the biggest Hard dance genre and has djs in the top 100. People won't ever take Hardcore seriously in the wider dance scene with cringeworthy shite like anime being part of it. Look how well Future World is doing without anime or candy as part of the music. Okay, that post will need some dissecting. J-core has become very popular in Japan, meaning there's a scene in Japan and therefore business for UK DJ's. Just recently Gammer's and Scott Brown went out there for an event. In your opinion, it may be the worst for whatever reason, but Shimamura and M-Project are on a number of UK labels such as Lethal Theory, so there's good signs of UK and US fans embracing and enjoying it. There's no evidence of fans leaving Hardcore or stopping listening to it as result of anime's presence. It bears little influence on conventional releases or events, and is simply an extension of what there already is. People have left Hardcore because they've outgrown it. Hardcore in the UK, for the last 5 or 6 years hasn't appealed to young people and they haven't gotten involved. I'd love to see a statistic on the average age of event goers, because I'd say it's rising relentlessly on my experience. Hardstyle has done well, but it's another type of music altogether. FutureWorld's success is very debatable. Releasing digitally is an easy thing to do, and volume of releases doesn't indicate the volume of sales. Futureworld in my eyes has been slow off the mark. Meanwhile anime themed releases in Japan are abundant. Every year new releases are put to press for seasonal conventions such as M3. Tano*c has a larger array of albums than most UK labels put together. M-Project run a huge amount of albums out of his studio too. There's simply albums everywhere and they are all-round great releases. Hardcore in the UK is lacking not because of anime, but because it's run out of the easy ideas and won't risk something out of the ordinary. New people need to be reached. If someone with the label and meane doesn't do it, Hardcore as it has been for the last twenty years will wither and stop. Eventually it will be a genre that exists entirely on the Internet with only occasional small raves for the enthusiasts. It's a grim prediction, but where do we really see Hardcore in 10 years? It's natural that people move on and focus on family or careers, so who exactly will take up the reigns as a big promoter or label owner? I'm struggling to see the candidates, and more and more I can only image Hardcore as a genre celebrated through online radio festivals, YouTube and digital releases. I went off on one there..
Samination	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Hardcore in the UK is lacking not because of anime, but because it's run out of the easy ideas and won't risk something out of the ordinary. They have tried taking risks though. CLSM crew tried the Hardscape stuff and that didnt work. Breeze tried changing in completely and we all know what happened there. But looking at the history, there's always been some kind of resistance towards change. When Hardcore became the Happy Hardcore most people here love and enjoy around 1996. When Hixxy started Raver Baby and started making more trancier stuff popular in 2002. The electro phaze Dougal & Gammer enjoyed (and I hated :P) during the mid-late 2000, and ofcourse Breeze here recently. Only difference is that Breeze's try has gotten a more vocal resistance
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity. The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced. The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube. Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020. Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business. Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition. Jcore is probably the worst form of hardcore there is. Hardcore might have gained new fans with its anime and candy but it probably lost twice that number at the same time in Europe. Hardstyle has pretty much incorporated all the original aspects of Hardcore apart from the speed. And look what has happened, Hardstyle is now head and shoulders the biggest Hard dance genre and has djs in the top 100. People won't ever take Hardcore seriously in the wider dance scene with cringeworthy shite like anime being part of it. Look how well Future World is doing without anime or candy as part of the music. hard style sucks though. :p. the US is complete opposite of what you are talking about in the UK i guess. the future of what you say is not doing great is going to take over. "cringeworthy shit"? lol... and i am assuming the last part is a joke. future world is trash; and despised as a hardcore label...if you can even call it that. i dont know one person into hardcore that likes what futureworld are doing. everyone i know loves hardcore & anime fusion..... i for one look even more forward to extra cringe worthy anime induced kandi kid hardcore ; that IS the scene here. need moar Japan. besides HU; j core is one of the ONLY other outlets producing really good hardcore
MC Deecee	As mentioned numerous times already, i don't really think its ever been a case of being cool or not, hardcore has always been more of an acquired taste as far as i can work out, certainly in the circle of people i grew up with in any case. As much as i don't like to bring up the age old commercial/underground debate i think it is a factor, back when i was growing up the only way you'd ever come into contact with hardcore as a genre was if someone you knew listened to it, it is a lot more accessible now, as is all music i suppose, all my mates were into it when i was a lad, nowadays on the occasion i see any of my old lot they always say stuff like "oh yeah hardcore, are you STILL listening to that" yes, yes i am, im aware some people do outgrow it but not me :) The essence of what i'm saying is that 12 - 15 years ago you couldn't simply walk into a supermarket and buy a hardcore CD off the shelf, maybe not so much right now but in recent years with CXH and HTID's albums on sale it brought it into the view of many more 'normal' people than ever, but then again is that in itself a bit of a double edged sword, in a more niche scene everyone's in it for the music, once you introduce it into the public eye so it becomes more available does it not dilute the fan base a little so your up town of a weekend youngsters are all into it simply because it sounds alright and they saw an advert for it on clubland TV, is that really a good thing, doesn't the fact that its still relatively underground kinda add to the magic? Buying it off the high street was something that you most certainly couldn't have done a few years ago in any case, in those days you had to know the right decent little independent record shops who could order it in for you, (i remember being about 15 and buzzing for the whole week while i waited for my copy of slammin vinyls absolute hardcore volume 2 that id ordered to come in) but nowadays, it goes even further than that, anyone can access any given genre at any given time with nothing more than a smart phone, so can anything really be regarded as underground anymore? The other thing i do find is that while hardcore is almost constantly evolving, any memory of it that a member of the general public may have is stuck at the arse end of the 90's still, if someone asks me when out in our local pub or wherever what we listen to and i say hardcore, they usually think rock/metal first, then when i correct them and say "no hardcore as in hardcore raves", chances are they'll say something like "oh yeah happy hardcore, i remember that, shooting star, heart of gold, dj hixxy" it makes me laugh that the general perception of it is over a decade out of date. Don't get me wrong, i love happy hardcore, its what i grew up listening to, and without it we would not have the upfront hardcore that we have now, but UK hardcore is quite a bit different to the happy era, it all grew from the same point but the sound is markedly different now. And while im here, thats another thing i don't like, people who say they love the uk upfront stuff but openly say that they cant stand the "old cheesy happy hardcore shit" and iv'e heard semi established artists say things like that as well, to say its shit means you are basically taking the piss out of the very roots that the music that you now say you love originally grew from. Apologies if i have gone off on a few tangents here, i didn't mean it to come across as a rant or anything, i just had a few different subjects to broach so got it all in with one post lol.
Triquatra	It's always been quite clique'y...but you could buy Hardcore in superstores....I mean there is a reason Bonkers 3 went silver in 1997 and a bunch of others followed eventually going gold! :) You could buy Hardcore in most big retailers in the 90s. I bought Bonkers/hardcore heavens etc in MVC/HMV/Virgin and eventually ASDA/(walmart) when they got their entertainment section etc
Sulphurik	quote: Originally posted by MC Deecee: And while im here, thats another thing i don't like, people who say they love the uk upfront stuff but openly say that they cant stand the "old cheesy happy hardcore shit" and iv'e heard semi established artists say things like that as well, to say its shit means you are basically taking the piss out of the very roots that the music that you now say you love originally grew from. Yeah that's true. I was into hardcore up to around 2010/2011 and it would have been the main music genre I listened to. The sound has evolved so much since then and imo the sound as a whole especially the very commercial tracks are making it the uncoolest it has ever been. In saying that it's great that some of the bigger names have returned eg. Scott Brown and it's good to see a large number of albums/compilations being released on HU. The large majority of well known and popular producers have now released their own albums which is good to see...although there's still one big name who hasn't yet! Hixxy. Is he still releasing tracks through HTID aswell as Futureworld?
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by Sulphurik: quote: Originally posted by MC Deecee: And while im here, thats another thing i don't like, people who say they love the uk upfront stuff but openly say that they cant stand the "old cheesy happy hardcore shit" and iv'e heard semi established artists say things like that as well, to say its shit means you are basically taking the piss out of the very roots that the music that you now say you love originally grew from. Yeah that's true. I was into hardcore up to around 2010/2011 and it would have been the main music genre I listened to. The sound has evolved so much since then and imo the sound as a whole especially the very commercial tracks are making it the uncoolest it has ever been. In saying that it's great that some of the bigger names have returned eg. Scott Brown and it's good to see a large number of albums/compilations being released on HU. The large majority of well known and popular producers have now released their own albums which is good to see...although there's still one big name who hasn't yet! Hixxy. Is he still releasing tracks through HTID aswell as Futureworld? Lol he isn't releasing anything. He joined Futureworld about a year ago and in that time 2 collabs of his have been released and not a peep of any upcoming releases. He's very quiet these days although he still DJ's regularly as far as I know.
rafferty	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity. The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced. The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube. Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020. Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business. Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition. Jcore is probably the worst form of hardcore there is. Hardcore might have gained new fans with its anime and candy but it probably lost twice that number at the same time in Europe. Hardstyle has pretty much incorporated all the original aspects of Hardcore apart from the speed. And look what has happened, Hardstyle is now head and shoulders the biggest Hard dance genre and has djs in the top 100. People won't ever take Hardcore seriously in the wider dance scene with cringeworthy shite like anime being part of it. Look how well Future World is doing without anime or candy as part of the music. Okay, that post will need some dissecting. J-core has become very popular in Japan, meaning there's a scene in Japan and therefore business for UK DJ's. Just recently Gammer's and Scott Brown went out there for an event. In your opinion, it may be the worst for whatever reason, but Shimamura and M-Project are on a number of UK labels such as Lethal Theory, so there's good signs of UK and US fans embracing and enjoying it. There's no evidence of fans leaving Hardcore or stopping listening to it as result of anime's presence. It bears little influence on conventional releases or events, and is simply an extension of what there already is. People have left Hardcore because they've outgrown it. Hardcore in the UK, for the last 5 or 6 years hasn't appealed to young people and they haven't gotten involved. I'd love to see a statistic on the average age of event goers, because I'd say it's rising relentlessly on my experience. Hardstyle has done well, but it's another type of music altogether. FutureWorld's success is very debatable. Releasing digitally is an easy thing to do, and volume of releases doesn't indicate the volume of sales. Futureworld in my eyes has been slow off the mark. Meanwhile anime themed releases in Japan are abundant. Every year new releases are put to press for seasonal conventions such as M3. Tano*c has a larger array of albums than most UK labels put together. M-Project run a huge amount of albums out of his studio too. There's simply albums everywhere and they are all-round great releases. Hardcore in the UK is lacking not because of anime, but because it's run out of the easy ideas and won't risk something out of the ordinary. New people need to be reached. If someone with the label and meane doesn't do it, Hardcore as it has been for the last twenty years will wither and stop. Eventually it will be a genre that exists entirely on the Internet with only occasional small raves for the enthusiasts. It's a grim prediction, but where do we really see Hardcore in 10 years? It's natural that people move on and focus on family or careers, so who exactly will take up the reigns as a big promoter or label owner? I'm struggling to see the candidates, and more and more I can only image Hardcore as a genre celebrated through online radio festivals, YouTube and digital releases. I went off on one there.. I don't think hardcore will end up just on the internet. The sound is evolving and UK hardcore djs are playing some of the smaller rooms at big festival events like Defqon. Future of Hardcore apart from the occasional club and large scale events is festivals. EDM and Hardstyle are the two big festival sounds at the moment. You can see alot of producers realising this and taking alot of infuences from these two genres. People like Darren Styles, Klubfiller, Chris Unkown, Recon, Mark Breeze as well as alot of new names too. Hardcore Reached it peak in 1996, so who knows what can happen with 20 year music cycles. 2016 possibly???
RobW	I don't even call it "happy hardcore" I just call it Hardcore. I think adding the word "Happy" to it makes it sound stupid and not meant to be taken seriously as a style of music. I can just picture someone asking me what kind of music do I like and I respond with "I like happy hardcore", that they'll just look at me weird and laugh, like wtf?! Happy hardcore?!! But I do like the music, especially the older breakbeat stuff. Just a stupid name was given to it without too much thought.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by RobW: I don't even call it "happy hardcore" I just call it Hardcore. That's fine and dandy among your personal clique that knows you and knows what you play, but not when you're talking to the electronic music community as a whole. The majority of people around the world will think of gabber hardcore when you just say hardcore. Some won't even recognize UK/happy hardcore because they've never heard of it, it's that much of a niche in some areas. And when they do recognize it, many still call it "happy" hardcore. quote: Originally posted by RobW: I think adding the word "Happy" to it makes it sound stupid and not meant to be taken seriously as a style of music. But I do like the music, especially the older breakbeat stuff. Just a stupid name was given to it without too much thought. Your profile says you were born in 1980, making you 34 years old. How long have you been listening to "happy" hardcore? If you listened to the 90s stuff, then "happy" was the correct description and name for the UK/happy hardcore of that time. There were a shit ton of albums, both in the UK, North America and in Europe, that had albums with that very name. Scooter was one, which was a big-name act in Europe that produced a whole happy hardcore album. Remember also Happy2bhardcore by anabolic Frolic, a Canadian? And there wasn't anyone at that time that was a serious fan of the music that didn't call it "happy hardcore." You can't call today's "happy" hardcore happy anymore because that just is not the direction the music has headed towards, and I don't see it permanently going backwards. It has evolved, for better or worse, into something that doesn't have that cheesy stigma from the 90s. I still like the 90s cheesy style, but I also love today's style from certain labels. quote: Originally posted by RobW: I can just picture someone asking me what kind of music do I like and I respond with "I like happy hardcore", that they'll just look at me weird and laugh, like wtf?! Happy hardcore?!! If you really liked a certain type of music, then you wouldn't give a shit who thinks what about it. I simply say UK hardcore these days because that's more the proper name for today's stuff. And seeing as you are an American I do hope that you're not a kandy kid. Because the name of what you listen to should be THE LEAST things you should be embarrassed about.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by rafferty: quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-) Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity. The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced. The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube. Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020. Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business. Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition. Jcore is probably the worst form of hardcore there is. Hardcore might have gained new fans with its anime and candy but it probably lost twice that number at the same time in Europe. Hardstyle has pretty much incorporated all the original aspects of Hardcore apart from the speed. And look what has happened, Hardstyle is now head and shoulders the biggest Hard dance genre and has djs in the top 100. People won't ever take Hardcore seriously in the wider dance scene with cringeworthy shite like anime being part of it. Look how well Future World is doing without anime or candy as part of the music. Okay, that post will need some dissecting. J-core has become very popular in Japan, meaning there's a scene in Japan and therefore business for UK DJ's. Just recently Gammer's and Scott Brown went out there for an event. In your opinion, it may be the worst for whatever reason, but Shimamura and M-Project are on a number of UK labels such as Lethal Theory, so there's good signs of UK and US fans embracing and enjoying it. There's no evidence of fans leaving Hardcore or stopping listening to it as result of anime's presence. It bears little influence on conventional releases or events, and is simply an extension of what there already is. People have left Hardcore because they've outgrown it. Hardcore in the UK, for the last 5 or 6 years hasn't appealed to young people and they haven't gotten involved. I'd love to see a statistic on the average age of event goers, because I'd say it's rising relentlessly on my experience. Hardstyle has done well, but it's another type of music altogether. FutureWorld's success is very debatable. Releasing digitally is an easy thing to do, and volume of releases doesn't indicate the volume of sales. Futureworld in my eyes has been slow off the mark. Meanwhile anime themed releases in Japan are abundant. Every year new releases are put to press for seasonal conventions such as M3. Tano*c has a larger array of albums than most UK labels put together. M-Project run a huge amount of albums out of his studio too. There's simply albums everywhere and they are all-round great releases. Hardcore in the UK is lacking not because of anime, but because it's run out of the easy ideas and won't risk something out of the ordinary. New people need to be reached. If someone with the label and meane doesn't do it, Hardcore as it has been for the last twenty years will wither and stop. Eventually it will be a genre that exists entirely on the Internet with only occasional small raves for the enthusiasts. It's a grim prediction, but where do we really see Hardcore in 10 years? It's natural that people move on and focus on family or careers, so who exactly will take up the reigns as a big promoter or label owner? I'm struggling to see the candidates, and more and more I can only image Hardcore as a genre celebrated through online radio festivals, YouTube and digital releases. I went off on one there.. I don't think hardcore will end up just on the internet. The sound is evolving and UK hardcore djs are playing some of the smaller rooms at big festival events like Defqon. Future of Hardcore apart from the occasional club and large scale events is festivals. EDM and Hardstyle are the two big festival sounds at the moment. You can see alot of producers realising this and taking alot of infuences from these two genres. People like Darren Styles, Klubfiller, Chris Unkown, Recon, Mark Breeze as well as alot of new names too. Hardcore Reached it peak in 1996, so who knows what can happen with 20 year music cycles. 2016 possibly??? If what I've seen, have been told by promoters and am reading is anything to go by, Hardcore is continually finding it harder to fill up its rooms. To say that Hardcore will be present in any scale at festivals is ambitious I think. Though I agree that Hardcore SHOULD be looking at festivals more as a way to popularize, as Hardstyle, Drum & Bass and House has. You make the argument that Hardcore taking influence will help its popularity, but I feel the case is different. I believe that Hardcore is slow to pick up on trending sounds, and that can be quite damaging. The current trend in the UK is deep house and quite a few genres, such as Liquid Drum & Bass, have maneuvered to accommodate elements of that style, but I've not heard any of it in Hardcore. You bring a dated sound to fans, and they'll be more bored of a style that's already been tired out in the mainstream. Hardcore's peak in 1996 came with a lot of momentum. It's bouncy style propelled it into it's own league after the success of Acid House and later breaks. There were new producers all with new ideas. Fast forward 18 years and you have the same producers all producing there and abouts the same styles of music, and Hardcore is slowing down rather than speeding up. What evidence of a peak in 2016 do you see? You admitted that Hardcore's not as big as it could be, but you wrongly blamed anime and kandi were the reasons why.
Triquatra	I would pay good money to see this thread animated in flash.
Cyrax	Hardcore is not cool that's why we listen to it because listening to uncool music actually makes you cool, which makes you cool , which actually makes you uncool................ I'm lost now
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: And there wasn't anyone at that time that was a serious fan of the music that didn't call it "happy hardcore." I barely knew anyone that called it happy hardcore in the 90s, I certainly didn't, and I know a lot of the big names of the time didn't approve of the name either. It was just 'hardcore'. I only saw the term 'happy hardcore' on CD albums and occasionally for events, but normally if I read or heard about 'happy hardcore' it was either in articles (often derogative) or from people who weren't into the music. A lot of people, myself included, only started referring to 'happy hardcore' in the 2000s when the new UK hardcore sound was about. I realise this wasn't the most important part of the topic, but ya know...
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: Hardcore is not cool that's why we listen to it because listening to uncool music actually makes you cool, which makes you cool , which actually makes you uncool................ I'm lost now I don't know how the ironic cool thing works either!
Sulphurik	The UK Hardcore scene between 2002 to 2008 (roughly) was a great period. Im my opinion that period was the 'coolest' it has ever been. I know around that time many hardcore fans would have said it was too trancey sounding but there was some great ideas from many producers and many different styles from the various producers and labels so for me that was a good time. There were a good number of albums and compilations being released. The Clubland X-treme Hardcore series for me is one of the main reasons for the way Hardcore has progressed and evolved to what it is today. I think it moved on too quickly and to change the sound taking influences from commercial dance and Clubland related styles. The style has also become less uplifting and many tracks have taken influences from hard dance. For me I like the uplifting/melodic sound to hardcore with good kick drums and basslines also. Nowadays that is becoming less common. There are still some producers producing some hardcore that I like including Scott Brown but I've actually gone off Scott's music now after hearing some recent tracks. 1996 to 1998 was a great time also. The old skool 'happy' hardcore sound eg. which featured on the Bonkers albums I have been a very big fan of...until now. There are still of course many old skool tracks I'm still and always will be a fan of but I'm not really as interested to listen to the older sound now as I used to be.
Ph33rViper	Hardcore hasn't been good for years. I totally agree that 2002 to 2008 was a great time for Hardcore especially with Next Generation and the major labels pumping out track after track and they were very good tracks release after release. Hardcore having trance elements and being uplifting was fantastic and also most of the tracks weren't as cleesey. surely some of the track were cheesey but they still had that harder sound to them too. Sadly Hardcore went downhill from 2006. That was the beginning of it. 2006 to 2008 were good years but once that was over I was getting over it. I have made the switch to Trance since it is much more enjoyable, more variety and much better tracks and so many classics. To make Hardcore good again I would bring bring the good elements of what made Hardcore really good like the old school sound, trance elements, uplifting sound and add some elements of cheese. Tracks being completely cheesey puts me off completely these days. I like Hardcore to have that decent kick with a harder like sound. I like mixing hardcore still but I won't return to listening to it full time like I did back in 2005 to 2010. I havre moved on and I will be sticking to Trance for a long time.

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