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EnglishGabberHead
Hello all.
When gabber was at it's peak in the mid 90's why do you think whilst there was big a Gabber following in Scotland and to a lesser extent northern England,why was it that it was always a more breakbeat driven scene in the south of england,any thoughts please contribute.
Cheers (:))
Samination
Possibly because Bouncy Techno was so related to Gabber it worked, while the more Jungle driven southerners didnt like it.
Being a swede, where Gabber has had a greater foothold than brittish Hardcore (alteast based on raves and album releases), I prefer the Rotterdam Hardcore over Gabber
EnglishGabberHead
Thank you for your imput , i too love Rotterdam hardcore a very unique style although could be classed as gabber alot of the later stuff anyway.
Hard2Get
quote:Possibly because Bouncy Techno was so related to Gabber it worked, while the more Jungle driven southerners didnt like it
That hasn't answered his question though. Mostly just rephrased what he said. That southerners don't like Dutch Hardcore or Dutch influenced Hardcore as much. Bouncy Techno was the same as Dutch Hardcore in that respect. As for why, i couldn't say. It's pretty odd when you think about it. Possibly just cultural differences.
EnglishGabberHead
Bouncy techno and the happier varients of Gabber seem almost identical in my opinion not quite the same but near enough.
ferocious
Cultural differences. Also the drugs of choice. This is mentioned in Simon Reynolds book "Energy Flash: A Journey Through Rave Music and Dance Culture", which you should try and read.
You could say the same regarding jungle and Scotland. Well known it was not popular with ravers there and promoters stopped hiring English DJs who spun that music.
In fact 'smart' jungle DJs like Jumping Jack Frost and Grooverider would play Scottish style sets. They knew jungle would have went down like a lead balloon.
Scottish scene used imports alongside their own.
English scene was all internal DJs, all internal music.
(I'm not about north England, which had a big house/club scene or sometimes was like Scotland even further north. I'm on about the main raves in England like Dreamscape and Helter Skelter.)
Similarly Scotland is more pro-EU, whereas England wants out and the further south you go the stronger it is.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by ferocious:
Similarly Scotland is more pro-EU, whereas England wants out and the further south you go the stronger it is.
So English are like they usually are? :P
EnglishGabberHead
Plenty of imported music was played down here mainly dutch happy hardcore,the tunes spun certainly were all not of english origin.
Hard2Get
Vibes played a lot of foreign stuff.
Ravemark
I am guessing it was because they had so many of their own producers making the happier sound at the time.
I know of a few Australian gabber DJ Producers that toured parts of the Southern UK.
The Immortalz from Sydney (aka 911 &Tymez II) UK tour.
DJ A.K.
Cos their southern fairies......
I joke, seemed odd to me that the hardcore got harder the further north you went, I'm from manchester and round here it was all about club kinetic, stu allan, scott brown, key 103, lots of Dutch and Scottish stuff (which I love).
But having said that Southern DJ's like Hixxy and Vibes also played bouncy stuff, I guess there were just more happy hardcore/ breakbeat DJ's down South so that is the sound that is associated with the south.
EnglishGabberHead
Brisk and Druid would knock out some of the harder stuff when playing down south sometimes.
Hard2Get
Yeah that's a point. Brisk used to play Bouncy Techno and Dutch stuff all the time.
EnglishGabberHead
Never got my head around the terrible happy being knocked out in the late 90's,Force and styles Heart of Gold type stuff is practically pop,granted in into gabber not so much happy but in can still appreciate decent dutch happy hardcore.Shit like Ultrabeat and other similiar artists barely register as rave music to be ,how they can be called Hardcore is beyond me.
Brisk was quality tho.
Hard2Get
F&S stuff was what i got into Hardcore for. They are essentially different genres though so doesn't make much sense to compare them.
EnglishGabberHead
Did you progress to the harder stuff via F&S,if so then i guess they ain t too bad lol.To be fair they did to a track called apollo13? i think which was very different to their usual cheddar.
Hard2Get
Yeah. It started with the Dutch Stuff Hixxy used to play in his happy sets.
EnglishGabberHead
Dutch can produce very cheesy happy i,e, 'Have you ever been mellow?'
Samination
quote:Originally posted by EnglishGabberHead:
Dutch can produce very cheesy happy i,e, 'Have you ever been mellow?'
but they could also make the most shit of all. No wonder it died :P
Hard2Get
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by EnglishGabberHead:
Dutch can produce very cheesy happy i,e, 'Have you ever been mellow?'
but they could also make the most shit of all. No wonder it died :P
That is correct.
EnglishGabberHead
good thing they made up for it with Gabber!
jenks
quote:Originally posted by ferocious:
Similarly Scotland is more pro-EU, whereas England wants out and the further south you go the stronger it is.
I don't get that impression.
Smoogie
I am 'southern' and like Gabber. It seems that the south was dominated by the 'London scene' that had strong ties with the Essex scene. In London, breakbeat was popular from the start as it seemed to been favoured by the large Afro Caribbean community who grew up with Reggae and Hip Hop so when 'Ragga Jungle' came about, this was popular with the ravers who likes that type of music anyway. I can imagine that there was a strong Jungle following it other places where there is large mixed race communities.
It seems that a lot of southern DJs did learn towards the harder Scottish/ Dutch sound around the mid 90s, people like Brisk seemed to have played it in his sets, that's if you can download the sets from his own website, in 92 he seemed to be breakbeat while by 95 there was a large Scottish/ Dutch influence and or a while people like Hixxy and Vibes where throwing in hard kicks in with the breaks. It has been said that some breakbeat labels where popular in Scotland though, labels like Kniteforce maybe as they where less pure Jungle and had that bouncier edge to it.
DJ2XL
It did take off but it was mainly crossed over with hardcore.. Gabber was massive with the dutch and the germans but never crossed the water properly, i have tons of gabber esp Mokum, Ruffneck records and RTR
Samination
maybe we should be thankful it never hit in the southern parts. What would've happened to the british hardcore scene when the dutch one hit the toilet? :P
bazzaboiii
I've always wondered this! I've always just thought it becuase of cultural differences and the different mix of people, us scots have always had a bit of a reputuation for being a bit mental hence the term "mad scotsman". I always put it down to the DJ's who were playing in the area at the time.. No internet back then meant that people really had to listen to what they were given. But it seems that wasn't the casue.
I grew up during the bouncy techno period and is why I'm into hardcore today.. I actually remember hearing the change in sound. In 1992 when the first rezerection was held hardcore was more breaks and vocals and within a matter of 2 years it had completely changed. The amount of scottish bouncy techno producers was unreal.. The Rhythmic State, Ultrasonic, Scott, Brown, TTF, Q-Tex, Ultimate Buzz, Bass Generator. It was everywhere, even on our radio.
This wiki link explains a lot.. Scott Brown basically was responsible. And it was Scotland that was exporting our sound not Importing from the Netherlands. Pretty interesting read... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncy_techno
Not sure who these guys are but they're producers being filmed at the end of a rez event in 92 talking about the scottish scene. You can hear the bouncy influence in the video but there's still a lot of breaks.. Probably where Scott Brown spotted that the crowd were going mad for the sound.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8XlGq5yvLw&feature=youtu.be&t=52m3s
It's quite interesting to see what the article mentions about the Southern DJ's trying to introduce the bouncy feel into the breakbeat in this video from Strictly Underground Rave New Years Eve 1994.. http://youtu.be/j3aybrCkuMs?t=25m49s
But it didn't look like the crowd were feeling it.. They kinda lacked the energy it was giving them when they were dancing. While Scotland were bouncing around like nutters... http://youtu.be/oo0Ie2gCA6A?t=3m7s
It made me wonder what Ireland were upto, they dont't seem to be mentioned anywhere. And came accross this video from Kellys Nightclub 1996 http://youtu.be/G2KRaUnQDmU?t=3m28s
Paul Elstaks was a big name here back in those days through Scott Brown bringing him onto the scene 20 years ago so you would think he would be a name you associated with the old days of rave.. But still to this day Scotland seem to go mad for him and not just the old school crowd.. Some weren't even born when when he first came here (I'm actually going to a gig he's playing tonight).
That techno sound still caries on today.. Makina exactly the same thing. Newcastle even had a club called Hanger 13.
When the Scouse scene came about I noticed the same thing happen with the divide, quite a lot of the original scouse house was based on bouncy techno before it got too donky... Newcastle were well into the scene and it even travelled up to Scotland and we had Producers up here give us their twist on it. But again it never seemed to get past Manchester.
Probably becuase of the wide range of diversity London has, there's so many clubs offering something different for everyone.
I enjoyed that wee trip and the one thing that I've taken from it is that we've got a lot to thank Scott Brown for. And even after another change of taste you don't see him posting what rants about how stuffs changed... True Legend!
bazzaboiii
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
maybe we should be thankful it never hit in the southern parts. What would've happened to the british hardcore scene when the dutch one hit the toilet? :P
LOL. You got any idea how big gabber is now?
Joey Riot is also part of Destructive Tendencies who produce Gabber.
They've just done Amsterdam had a gig in Switzerland and booked for Netherlands & Barcelona.
quote:Originally posted by ferocious
Similarly Scotland is more pro-EU, whereas England wants out and the further south you go the stronger it is.
Really? That would influence a choice in music? The only thing I'm pro is pro hardcore and if I like the music, I like it. The DJ could be a cross dressing rabbit from Uranus
bazzaboiii
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
maybe we should be thankful it never hit in the southern parts. What would've happened to the british hardcore scene when the dutch one hit the toilet? :P
What was the hardcore like in Sweden at those times?
Samination
quote:Originally posted by bazzaboiii:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
maybe we should be thankful it never hit in the southern parts. What would've happened to the british hardcore scene when the dutch one hit the toilet? :P
What was the hardcore like in Sweden at those times?
Wouldn't know, I got into hardcore in late 2001. But supposedly Thunderdome had a following in Sweden.
EnglishGabberHead
Wish Elstak would play down south!!!!!!!!!!!! I think he did bagleys in late 90s/early 00s once but thats the only memory i have of him playing , i wasnt there and may be just imagining it lol.
bazzaboiii
quote:Originally posted by EnglishGabberHead:
Wish Elstak would play down south!!!!!!!!!!!! I think he did bagleys in late 90s/early 00s once but thats the only memory i have of him playing , i wasnt there and may be just imagining it lol.
Aw buddy! I think you were born at the wrong end of the country lol. I've been to see him at least 7 times since 2011. Can't get enough of him up here.
EnglishGabberHead
Does he only play his offensive records type stuff or does he drop any early hardcore/gabber.
bazzaboiii
Yeah he drops a lot of hardcore/gabber
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