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T O P I C R E V I E W
oxis
AKA nitpicking thread
does anyone else feel like there are recurring elements in tracks that you really don't like and that make the whole song unenjoyable?
for me, it's the obnoxious loud noise sweeps used to fill the mix with something while the breakdown doesn't come. it is just lifeless to me, has no soul whatsoever. i would rather have something more interesting mixed in with the sweep, like this thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klNQ6CNe-rQ&t=23s. it almost sounds like a demonic growl, and i really like it, even though the rest of the track is lame as hell.
even worse than the sweeps is probably the crowd cheering samples used to fill the mix. i am aware that it is useful to make the track sound like it has more air, but it just ruins it to me for some reason, it sounds really pretentious to put people cheering in your own track.
something else that i hate, not really in songs, but in mixes, is when the DJ decides to mix in the second song and it doesn't fit remotely with the previous song.
it is obvious that this track is going for the big, loud, euphoric classic hardcore sound. so melody is, atleast to me, something very important in the song. at 2 minutes 33 seconds, the next song is mixed in, and the synth notes don't fit remotely. it just seems like a bad choice of a song to play right after something like Paradise. or maybe if you're considering that someone else will play your stuff in a set, you would try to make it so the beggining of your track doesn't have much harmony, which makes it much less likely that it will interfere with the previous track.
idk if this is extreme nitpicking, but it really bugs me sometimes.. i'm sure that you guys must also have something that necessarily annoys you though
Elipton
I can't name 3 artists who make the second half of their tracks different to the first half.
Laziness annoys me in tracks.
ViolonC
quote:Originally posted by oxis:
for me, it's the obnoxious loud noise sweeps used to fill the mix with something while the breakdown doesn't come.
I know what you mean. The main problem with this sweeps is that if they are in the mixin/out they have to be loud enough to be audible even when two tracks are mixed. And before the drop a lot of the time the sum gets high-passed to make the kick drop in harder and then the limiter makes it super loud.
It's not easy to make a good noise sweep (sound design) and you almost every time have to compromise mixing it in.
quote:Originally posted by oxis:
something else that i hate, not really in songs, but in mixes, is when the DJ decides to mix in the second song and it doesn't fit remotely with the previous song.
Same here. My take on this is that a lot of DJs are not musicians and therefor lack a feeling for the music (as a DJ just need some feeling for the rhythm to mix two tracks). An other answer would be that the DJ is just lazy or doesn't care because he wants to play the next track at all costs. It sounds kinda strange but having this musically bad transition is kinda the better choice than making a hard cut to the next track (except there is a good spot to do it) as a lot of listeners won't bother either.
The thing that probably bothers me the most is when breakdown and drop have no musical connection or even a clear disconnection.
Impulse_Response
One thing that really annoys me is when a DJ ends a good happy or freeform set with gabber or gabbery sounding tracks (like on Scott Brown's Bonkers mixes). While there are a few gabber tunes that I like, for the most part I don't like gabber and having it at the end of a set kills the energy for me.
I also can't stand good tracks that are ruined with gabbery breakdowns, like "You Better Run" by Frisky & Hujib, or so many others the Next Generation Collection albums.
There are two things that annoy me in mixes as well. I don't like it when DJs try to squeeze 30 tracks into a mix, so you only get about 1:30 of some tracks (which too often are the ones I really like). I like to hear them, and by the time one track really gets going it's already on its way out. The other thing I don't like is when the last track in the mix fades out, even though there are 8-10 minutes left on the CD and they could've let the last track play out. This is a small detail though and not a huge complaint.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Elipton:
I can't name 3 artists who make the second half of their tracks different to the first half.
Laziness annoys me in tracks.
When I first started production, I realised that I'm an incredibly lazy person so I decided to only do single drop tracks because I knew I would just copy-paste the first half.
Just sound in general really. Give me 5mins of absolute silence any day.
Comrade_
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
There are two things that annoy me in mixes as well. I don't like it when DJs try to squeeze 30 tracks into a mix, so you only get about 1:30 of some tracks (which too often are the ones I really like). I like to hear them, and by the time one track really gets going it's already on its way out. The other thing I don't like is when the last track in the mix fades out, even though there are 8-10 minutes left on the CD and they could've let the last track play out. This is a small detail though and not a huge complaint.
I remember one of Dj DMS's dimension of euphoria mixes being a big culprit of this. He mixed 30ish into an hour long mix!
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
One thing that really annoys me is when a DJ ends a good happy or freeform set with gabber or gabbery sounding tracks (like on Scott Brown's Bonkers mixes). While there are a few gabber tunes that I like, for the most part I don't like gabber and having it at the end of a set kills the energy for me.
I also can't stand good tracks that are ruined with gabbery breakdowns, like "You Better Run" by Frisky & Hujib, or so many others the Next Generation Collection albums.
There are two things that annoy me in mixes as well. I don't like it when DJs try to squeeze 30 tracks into a mix, so you only get about 1:30 of some tracks (which too often are the ones I really like). I like to hear them, and by the time one track really gets going it's already on its way out. The other thing I don't like is when the last track in the mix fades out, even though there are 8-10 minutes left on the CD and they could've let the last track play out. This is a small detail though and not a huge complaint.
agreed. i would seriously always prefer finishing on some crazy euphoric vocal banger or the like
some people love to go apeshit and lose it to gabber at the very end though i guess :p
wong
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
One thing that really annoys me is when a DJ ends a good happy or freeform set with gabber or gabbery sounding tracks (like on Scott Brown's Bonkers mixes).
im opposite, i love to hear a nice happy mix ending on a hard note. Infact, im gonna do a mix tonight and do exactly this :)
Vladel
I do like a hard finish to a happy mix sometimes but it's not essential. Sometimes it's nice to have a chilled out end
Guest
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
One thing that really annoys me is when a DJ ends a good happy or freeform set with gabber or gabbery sounding tracks (like on Scott Brown's Bonkers mixes). While there are a few gabber tunes that I like, for the most part I don't like gabber and having it at the end of a set kills the energy for me.
I also can't stand good tracks that are ruined with gabbery breakdowns, like "You Better Run" by Frisky & Hujib, or so many others the Next Generation Collection albums.
There are two things that annoy me in mixes as well. I don't like it when DJs try to squeeze 30 tracks into a mix, so you only get about 1:30 of some tracks (which too often are the ones I really like). I like to hear them, and by the time one track really gets going it's already on its way out. The other thing I don't like is when the last track in the mix fades out, even though there are 8-10 minutes left on the CD and they could've let the last track play out. This is a small detail though and not a huge complaint.
agreed. i would seriously always prefer finishing on some crazy euphoric vocal banger or the like
some people love to go apeshit and lose it to gabber at the very end though i guess :p
if you follow all the big events and charts and mix cd`s, gabber is not hard, it just has sub bass
When tracks add an extra bar, which is just a simple filler or snare roll or something, at a point you might already be mixing out from. Hardly ruins the whole track but a pain in the arse from a DJ point of view.
danielseven
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
When tracks add an extra bar, which is just a simple filler or snare roll or something, at a point you might already be mixing out from. Hardly ruins the whole track but a pain in the arse from a DJ point of view.
This is where it actually belongs who's a good DJ: they have a memory of the music they play, and know all the cue points!
I remember how much a nightmare was mixing italodisco or eurodance or even 2000's italodance... Because when you thought the track was finishing with their empty beats... The track kicks on again! haha
Ken Masters
Overuse of sidechain compression. Dont get me wrong, it definitely has its place & I like the effect. However white noise breakdowns that drag on for around 10secs with the side chain effect is a bit dull after a while.
Triquatra
heavy use of side chaining (****s with my ears), white noise, and over mastering/compression (whatever) to the point of distortion.
Trance is a real victim of the first two there.
The tracks where they seem to have put every effort into getting it to sound squeeky clean but have put the exact opposite amount of effort into actually making an enjoyable piece of music.
Would rather have a fantastical masterpiece that has errors here and there and never got a master, than have a squeeky clean polished turd.
djDMS
quote:Originally posted by Comrade_:
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
There are two things that annoy me in mixes as well. I don't like it when DJs try to squeeze 30 tracks into a mix, so you only get about 1:30 of some tracks (which too often are the ones I really like). I like to hear them, and by the time one track really gets going it's already on its way out. The other thing I don't like is when the last track in the mix fades out, even though there are 8-10 minutes left on the CD and they could've let the last track play out. This is a small detail though and not a huge complaint.
I remember one of Dj DMS's dimension of euphoria mixes being a big culprit of this. He mixed 30ish into an hour long mix!
I might have got slightly carried away.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
One thing that really annoys me is when a DJ ends a good happy or freeform set with gabber or gabbery sounding tracks (like on Scott Brown's Bonkers mixes). While there are a few gabber tunes that I like, for the most part I don't like gabber and having it at the end of a set kills the energy for me.
I also can't stand good tracks that are ruined with gabbery breakdowns, like "You Better Run" by Frisky & Hujib, or so many others the Next Generation Collection albums.
There are two things that annoy me in mixes as well. I don't like it when DJs try to squeeze 30 tracks into a mix, so you only get about 1:30 of some tracks (which too often are the ones I really like). I like to hear them, and by the time one track really gets going it's already on its way out. The other thing I don't like is when the last track in the mix fades out, even though there are 8-10 minutes left on the CD and they could've let the last track play out. This is a small detail though and not a huge complaint.
agreed. i would seriously always prefer finishing on some crazy euphoric vocal banger or the like
some people love to go apeshit and lose it to gabber at the very end though i guess :p
I hate it when people keep playin the same stuff for a whole hour.
'Nuff Said!
Elipton
quote:Originally posted by Ken Masters:
Overuse of sidechain compression. Dont get me wrong, it definitely has its place & I like the effect. However white noise breakdowns that drag on for around 10secs with the side chain effect is a bit dull after a while.
You had a phase where you used to grow really tired of vocal stuttering too. Is that still a quirk?
Ken Masters
quote:Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:Originally posted by Ken Masters:
Overuse of sidechain compression. Dont get me wrong, it definitely has its place & I like the effect. However white noise breakdowns that drag on for around 10secs with the side chain effect is a bit dull after a while.
You had a phase where you used to grow really tired of vocal stuttering too. Is that still a quirk?
Ah yes, that can be annoying. It seems to be the norm now.
I dont want to come across too harsh though. Stuttering vocalists certainly have a place in the scene. Its not their fault they have speech troubles & should be applauded for effort alone :)
djDMS
quote:Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:Originally posted by Ken Masters:
Overuse of sidechain compression. Dont get me wrong, it definitely has its place & I like the effect. However white noise breakdowns that drag on for around 10secs with the side chain effect is a bit dull after a while.
You had a phase where you used to grow really tired of vocal stuttering too. Is that still a quirk?
Y y y y y y y y ye ye ye ye yeyeyeyeyeyeye yes.
Bad Corey
Weird length phrases or a chorus that's like a phrase and a half long. The most recent culprit of the latter than I can remember is Dougal & Gammer - Burn. The damn chorus is 24 bars long. That's just stupid at that point. Make it 16 or 32, I don't care, but stop trying to force DJs to play out your entire track because you know what? I know how to use Audacity, and if I want to play your track bad enough, I'll just clip out the stupid section anyways.
A completely separate annoyance I have is that record break sound that a lot of EDM producers put at the end of synths. Even used sparingly, it's tired and played out at this point, and when overused it can completely ruin the track. Just tired of that trend.
Triquatra
record break?
Bad Corey
'Scuse me, I meant record brake. Those things make terrible rotors for your car.
djDMS
quote:Originally posted by Triquatra:
record break?
Nice to see those copies of Wham bam being put to good use
Triquatra
LOL! :D
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:Originally posted by Triquatra:
record break?
Nice to see those copies of Wham bam being put to good use
YOU DIE FOR THAT COMMENT!!!
djDMS
Rather die than listen to that abomination again!
ViolonC
Almost every effect overused gives your ears cancer. But the 'spinning down' surely is one of the top runners for cheap producing as some DJs think the flanger is a good effect for usage ... everywhere.
Hard2Get
Now that i think about it i think only Americans like Wham Bam. And Triquatra spent long enough in the US to for him to also like it.
Triquatra
hahaha, it's a good theory!
But wham bam has been a beast of a track since long before I moved there! :P
Ken Masters
For me wham bam is just pure nostalgia! Its utter cheese of the highest order & I hate myself for liking it, I shouldn't like it! But I do! Does that make me a bad person? :(
Hard2Get
quote:Originally posted by Ken Masters:
For me wham bam is just pure nostalgia! Its utter cheese of the highest order & I hate myself for liking it, I shouldn't like it! But I do! Does that make me a bad person? :(
Yes.
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
Rather die than listen to that abomination again!
OK so which Wham Bam are you talking about? This one?
Not a fan of it. And it's not because I'm embarrassed to like super cheesy tracks like Dean, but it just sounds really off for some reason.
If Vinylgroover seems to be the S3RL of his time and made tracks so cheesy people could not stand, why are people on here yearning for his return to hardcore?
Mickey Init
"When I was just a young child... used to run, from my emotions."
Josephson_Junction
Fake-out drops that kill off any previous momentum built-up in a track while also failing to provide any energy of their own. Not that it can't be done tactfully (at least for me, Shimamura - Galaxxxy Burst comes to mind).
quote:Originally posted by Triquatra:
record break?
Samination
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by Mickey Init:
Wham Bam (The Big Bang) is awesome! I can't believe what I'm reading!
Next, you'll be telling me that you don't like Secrets!!
Not a fan of it. And it's not because I'm embarrassed to like super cheesy tracks like Dean, but it just sounds really off for some reason.
If Vinylgroover seems to be the S3RL of his time and made tracks so cheesy people could not stand, why are people on here yearning for his return to hardcore?
Because, like s3rl, he has also made some very good tracks that arent that cheesy :P
Cyrax
All Scott Browns back cat
Hard2Get
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
All Scott Browns back cat
Don't let Jay see that.
lurker
quote:Originally posted by oxis:
something else that i hate, not really in songs, but in mixes, is when the DJ decides to mix in the second song and it doesn't fit remotely with the previous song.
At this point it seems like almost no one in hardcore knows how to mix two tracks cleanly. Either nothing but sharp cuts or tons of clashing musical keys (****ING Douglas).
Elipton
quote:Originally posted by lurker:
quote:Originally posted by oxis:
something else that i hate, not really in songs, but in mixes, is when the DJ decides to mix in the second song and it doesn't fit remotely with the previous song.
tons of clashing musical keys (****ING Douglas).
Maybe that's why he makes his tracks so they never modulate or change.. like.. ever?
ViolonC
I can hardly remember a track that had any kind of modulation (as the musical terminus technicus) in it. Some Hardstyle tracks come to mind, though.
_Jay_
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
All Scott Browns back cat
We'll be having words next time we're out.
MC Deecee
Unusual drops get me, the worst ones are when there's a nice buildup and you're ready for it to drop but instead there's one beat and it goes into a breakdown again, fake drops I call them, that and tracks that have a long build up so you're pretty sure you know where you are and what's coming, then come drop time there's a little 4 beat fill or something before it actually drops, these often catch me out if I don't know the track, just weird drops in general I guess, paranoia by Gammer and Darren styles is a prime example of a strange drop, I know that one now so it doesn't get me anymore but always used to trip me up.
Gazcore
I agree with the too many short tracks crammed onto a disc shout and also live/MC recordings.
eddiewould
- That mix of Brisk & Trixxy - Eye Opener which is missing the "shatter the glass second half for your funky ass funky assssss" breakdown. WHY.OH.WHY would you leave that out?
- Too many tracks crammed together in a mix
- MCing over the breakdown
- New remixes of classic tracks that don't add anything (other than fancy synths). Give me a bit of grit any day.
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by eddiewould:
- That mix of Brisk & Trixxy - Eye Opener which is missing the "shatter the glass second half for your funky ass funky assssss" breakdown. WHY.OH.WHY would you leave that out?
Didn't both versions of Eyeopener that Dougal played on Bonkers 4 & 6 have the synthy breakdowns missing and went straight to vocals?
Unless my memory is bollocksed, and I'm mistaking it for something else. I'm sure there was some ridiculous edit like that though.
Torpex
Unnecessary sidechaining.
warped_candykid
*A track with a boring intro/outro
*A track with nothing fun done with the vocals
*A track with too long of a break with no dance time
*Tracks where the mid-section is just a repeat of the intro (which goes back to #1)
Hard2Get
quote:Originally posted by Torpex:
Unnecessary sidechaining.
Sounds like everything then. People just do it for the sake of it these days when it offers no benefit.
ponder
Autotune.
ponder
OK, a more serious gripe...
Lesser known artists who release/upload/play out unofficial remixes they've made of classic Hardcore tunes. There was this 'New Happy Hardcore' stuff a while a go that was just remixes of Shooting Star, Eye Opener etc. It's just taking someone else's hard work and piggy backing on it with some basic production knowledge, and such a cheap, sterile way to get a reaction at a rave.
As for the side-chaining thing - who the hell is still side-chaining when you have Volume Shaper, LFO Tool etc out there that allow far more control and flexibility ;)
But the biggest thing that annoys me is people unwilling to take risks, or unwilling to accept artists who may change or evolve their style.
Btw, Elation is back and you should all go to it. Thanks!
Hard2Get
quote:Originally posted by ponder:
OK, a more serious gripe...
Lesser known artists who release/upload/play out unofficial remixes they've made of classic Hardcore tunes. There was this 'New Happy Hardcore' stuff a while a go that was just remixes of Shooting Star, Eye Opener etc. It's just taking someone else's hard work and piggy backing on it with some basic production knowledge, and such a cheap, sterile way to get a reaction at a rave.
As for the side-chaining thing - who the hell is still side-chaining when you have Volume Shaper, LFO Tool etc out there that allow far more control and flexibility ;)
Synths have amplitude envelopes for dynamics too lol
quote:Lesser known artists who release/upload/play out unofficial remixes they've made of classic Hardcore tunes
This happened a lot (as you know) around 1999-2001 but with Trance tunes. Almost all of the rips were terrible and pointless.
Samination
So, it's OK for bigger names to do (unofficial) remixes of other tracks but not lesser known? :P
Hard2Get
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
So, it's OK for bigger names to do (unofficial) remixes of other tracks but not lesser known? :P
I know who you mean lol
ponder
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
So, it's OK for bigger names to do (unofficial) remixes of other tracks but not lesser known? :P
I think the odd cheeky bootleg is ok, especially if it does something different to the original, but basing an entire sound around lifting other people's music is a bit off.
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by ponder:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
So, it's OK for bigger names to do (unofficial) remixes of other tracks but not lesser known? :P
I think the odd cheeky bootleg is ok, especially if it does something different to the original, but basing an entire sound around lifting other people's music is a bit off.
And giving themselves a catchy name like Bazz Mast3rz or something.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
So, it's OK for bigger names to do (unofficial) remixes of other tracks but not lesser known? :P
I know who you mean lol
I was going to refer to the Scotsman, but everyone is guilty of it. Hixxy, Styles, Breeze and so forth. And not only in Hardcore ofcourse
;)
Hard2Get
But Scott Brown is the only person i can think of apart from a few odd exceptions where he has actually improved the original and produced with as much (often more) skill of his own. They are usually done as ponder described.
Bee-Trax
When they try to make a track, but then it doesn't sound like it was on Bonkers 7.
also when an album is released, but the album isn't called Bonkers 7.
I'd like to make a quick statement on behalf of every bee in the hive with regards to Ponder's statement and bonkers 7 "basing an entire sound around lifting other people's music is a bit off."
I don't know if that was aimed squarely at Bee-trax, but it does seem to point as us and the cult of bonkers 7.
We've chatted to UFO (even before we started to fly) and he knows we have every respect for the sound they created for bonkers 7 back in 99, which is why (along with an unquestionable, relentless demand for more bonkers 7 rave scene) we are continuing to hold the flame of the bonkers 7 sound.
Bonkers 7
Hard2Get
I doubt he meant you as it's a common thing. In your case it is different because your intention is clear. You're going for the Bonkers 7 sound out of appreciation for it and not trying to deny that fact. Your love for Bonkers 7 is pretty clear to see lol
Bee-Trax
we supposed that - but thought we should say something anyway just to clear the air! =)
Although the cornerstone of the Bonkers 7 sound does seem to err slightly to the side of not-so-official-bootlegs-of-trance we still like to pretend to ourselves that we are at least doing something a little different in bonkers 7's name, to the standard UK Hardcore bootleg.
As it is widely rumored/speculated that most top tier producers are currently working on Bonkers 7 styled tracks right now, none have released any of them (indeed, most will deny it as it's one of the best held secrets of the scene) it seemed important that Bee Trax filled the gap until such a time (the much anticipated and awaited "b'sevening") they release them.
All that in mind there is at least 19.99% of the Bonkers 7 sound that doesn't seem to have a grounding in classic trance (or bizarre 70s electronica) and would be worth looking into at the point
at least when 19.99% becomes a realistic song length in relation to the rest of the releases!
ponder
quote:Originally posted by Bee-Trax:
When they try to make a track, but then it doesn't sound like it was on Bonkers 7.
also when an album is released, but the album isn't called Bonkers 7.
I'd like to make a quick statement on behalf of every bee in the hive with regards to Ponder's statement and bonkers 7 "basing an entire sound around lifting other people's music is a bit off."
I don't know if that was aimed squarely at Bee-trax, but it does seem to point as us and the cult of bonkers 7.
We've chatted to UFO (even before we started to fly) and he knows we have every respect for the sound they created for bonkers 7 back in 99, which is why (along with an unquestionable, relentless demand for more bonkers 7 rave scene) we are continuing to hold the flame of the bonkers 7 sound.
Bonkers 7
No offence mate, but I've literally never heard of you or any of your music before. So no, it wasn't aimed at you. :)
Cyrax
Bonkers 7 is just Bonkers 8 for people who can't face reality !
Bee-Trax
Some times things are so phenomenally popular that they just completely and utterly go under the radar and nobody sees or demands them.
Are you sure? I was unaware of any other reality other than Bonkers 7!
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