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T O P I C R E V I E W
The drunken scotsman	Seen this on social media and it made me laugh. https://www.facebook.com/DJGammerFans/photos/a.174896073142.123389.71647918142/10152918906788143/?type=1&theater And associated soundcloud clip Not sure if its the same Elliot who posts on here but C-kay seems to think so... C-Kay ?@C_Kay ? 42m42 minutes ago @DJGammer http://HHC.com user I believe. Our favourite people 👀
Elipton	Has Gammer had a stroke?
The Stisk	Just been reading myself, it made me chuckle but can't say i disagree with the o.p entirely though, i've never been as bored with the 'top tier' as much since all of this David Guetta-esque core came in years ago, theres a handful of tunes i like but mostly im sat here thinking "what?, really"
Vladel	There has to be be some explanation for how shit he has become
Elliott	Yep. That was me.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by The Stisk: Just been reading myself, it made me chuckle but can't say i disagree with the o.p entirely though, i've never been as bored with the 'top tier' as much since all of this David Guetta-esque core came in years ago, theres a handful of tunes i like but mostly im sat here thinking "what?, really" I completely agree and I stand by every word.
latininxtc	Did C.kay delete his comment? I don't see it for some reason, at least not on that link that was given.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: Did C.kay delete his comment? I don't see it for some reason, at least not on that link that was given. The comment came from Twitter. Just look at the replies to Gammer's tweet about it.
oxis	knowing gammer i am almost surprised that he didnt use this as background music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1qXQRpF08E still pretty good though, i loled. those comments are so silly that i legitimately have trouble diferenciating the real complaints from the jokeposts.
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: Did C.kay delete his comment? I don't see it for some reason, at least not on that link that was given. You should see it if you go on Gammers twitter
latininxtc	ok yea I see it now. lol C.Kay. There's a guy whose opinion holds little to no value to me.
arpz	"I dunno why you don't just take this stuff on the (bearded) chin instead of trying to make an example of people all the time... No doubt he prefers the old vocally stuff, it's a compliment really and he's probably just sad that you've moved away from that sound a bit as of late." I said this.. still don't understand why he's gotta call people out all the time
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by arpz: "I dunno why you don't just take this stuff on the (bearded) chin instead of trying to make an example of people all the time... No doubt he prefers the old vocally stuff, it's a compliment really and he's probably just sad that you've moved away from that sound a bit as of late." I said this.. still don't understand why he's gotta call people out all the time I saw that. You hit the nail on the head. Although I'm not at all concerned about the furore I've caused. It's quite exciting. It was intended as a silly, light-hearted comment. I mean, I stand by every word and I don't like his recent work at all but I don't hate him and I completely respect his right to produce whatever the **** he wants. I expected him to either ignore it or quietly delete it but this is far more entertaining all round.
djDMS	I don't understand the need to bring it to everybody's attention just so 30 people can turn round and say 'what a c***' or 'I'd like to see him do better'. Criticism should be welcomed. Holds a lot more weight than arse licking every little thing somebody does. Gammer is one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned but no way would I pretend I like all his tunes just because it goes along with popular opinion.
wong	yeah cus hhc.com's the root of all of hardcore's shitness
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I don't understand the need to bring it to everybody's attention just so 30 people can turn round and say 'what a c***' or 'I'd like to see him do better'. Criticism should be welcomed. Holds a lot more weight than arse licking every little thing somebody does. Gammer is one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned but no way would I pretend I like all his tunes just because it goes along with popular opinion. What do you think of his productions over the last few years? Were you impressed by Pigface? :P Edit: I agree about Gammer. He's in my all-time top 3. But he might as well be part of a different scene now because I haven't really enjoyed anything of his for a long time.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by wong: yeah cus hhc.com's the root of all of hardcore's shitness I know. It amazes me that some of the producers act like we're some hateful force for evil in the hardcore scene. Firstly, we're a tiny group and we can't achieve anything. Secondly, we're the real die-hard fans who love hardcore enough to sit around and discuss it -- we're hardly "haters".
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: ok yea I see it now. lol C.Kay. There's a guy whose opinion holds little to no value to me. Think he must have missed the irony in his post given that he too posts or has posted on hhc.com in recent times.
djDMS	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I don't understand the need to bring it to everybody's attention just so 30 people can turn round and say 'what a c***' or 'I'd like to see him do better'. Criticism should be welcomed. Holds a lot more weight than arse licking every little thing somebody does. Gammer is one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned but no way would I pretend I like all his tunes just because it goes along with popular opinion. What do you think of his productions over the last few years? Were you impressed by Pigface? :P I actually like a lot of the more recent stuff he's done. Yes, there's plenty that I've listened to the preview and been disappointed but I wouldn't knock him for trying to be different. The 'novelty' stuff should be taken with a pinch of salt. I have no idea what sales figures might be like for his 'less well received' stuff, for all we know they could be selling shitloads and those of us of the 'please stop letting EDM/big room house influence everything' persuasion might be totally wrong! Oh, and as for your comment that started all this in the first place. Valid points, poorly delivered ;-)
Elliott	Arpz and Dean and perhaps others, thanks for the articulate and considered comments on that status. I appreciate the support. Although you guys make by far the most sense of any of the comments I've read on there and are actually capable of thinking for yourselves, I'm not worried about this at all. It's genuinely amusing. I'm not upset by Gammer's actions. I'm enjoying my 5 minutes of infamy. Gammer says jump and these morons say "how high?" and it's not even Gammer's fault. There's an epidemic of blindly following along with people of dubious standing and defending their every move just because you like some aspect of what they do. But it's easy to ignore because you tend to think of them as braindead arse lickers. I like this forum because that shit doesn't happen here. We give our honest opinions about everything - with many of us trying to emphasise the positives - and don't blindly follow anyone. I assume that is why the FW crowd have always had a problem with this forum. This is a place where you can actually say that a track is not up to a producer's usual standards and not get jumped on. They presumably don't like that sort of criticism and demonise us for it. In conclusion, this is a pretty cool place and also the Gammer stuff is just a bit of a side-show.
trippnface	kanye west for life lol trap on Gammer. trap on. making it so hard to ever want to see him again.. got a show coming up with dougal but i just don't know if it will even be worth my time. maybe if dougal tells him whatsup... and they play uk hardcore classics... otherwise i will definitely stay at home and have a better time.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I don't understand the need to bring it to everybody's attention just so 30 people can turn round and say 'what a c***' or 'I'd like to see him do better'. Criticism should be welcomed. Holds a lot more weight than arse licking every little thing somebody does. Gammer is one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned but no way would I pretend I like all his tunes just because it goes along with popular opinion. What do you think of his productions over the last few years? Were you impressed by Pigface? :P I actually like a lot of the more recent stuff he's done. Yes, there's plenty that I've listened to the preview and been disappointed but I wouldn't knock him for trying to be different. The 'novelty' stuff should be taken with a pinch of salt. I have no idea what sales figures might be like for his 'less well received' stuff, for all we know they could be selling shitloads and those of us of the 'please stop letting EDM/big room house influence everything' persuasion might be totally wrong! Oh, and as for your comment that started all this in the first place. Valid points, poorly delivered ;-) I think their big room house thing is probably going well for them. It's disappointing for us because we don't like it but the fact that it's successful doesn't make us wrong! I agree mate. It was actually supposed to be stupid and not something that would be taken seriously (hence the wording). It was just a joke comment with a grain of truth embedded in it. The silly side of it has just been completely lost on the people who are actually getting angry.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: ok yea I see it now. lol C.Kay. There's a guy whose opinion holds little to no value to me. Think he must have missed the irony in his post given that he too posts or has posted on hhc.com in recent times. I think he got bored of the FW "haters" (i.e. people with legitimate criticism and concerns about FW) and left.
oxis	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I don't understand the need to bring it to everybody's attention just so 30 people can turn round and say 'what a c***' or 'I'd like to see him do better'. Criticism should be welcomed. Holds a lot more weight than arse licking every little thing somebody does. Gammer is one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned but no way would I pretend I like all his tunes just because it goes along with popular opinion. criticism is great, vague criticism is awful
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by oxis: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I don't understand the need to bring it to everybody's attention just so 30 people can turn round and say 'what a c***' or 'I'd like to see him do better'. Criticism should be welcomed. Holds a lot more weight than arse licking every little thing somebody does. Gammer is one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned but no way would I pretend I like all his tunes just because it goes along with popular opinion. criticism is great, vague criticism is awful In my defence, I don't even know how you would turn Pigface into something that I would want to listen to. Scrap the whole thing and start again, I suppose. It's hard to give specific criticism.
SparkzMusic	Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I believe this forum is filled with perhaps the most knowledgeable people anywhere regarding UK Hardcore. What do die hard hardcore fans do?? Simple... They join a forum. So here there's many people who have been into it since the start back in the early 90's. Peoples tastes can be different. In my opinion, everything being made by the top tier core artists these days is utter dogs mess and the stuff they made 5+ years ago was so much better. However some people may like the modern tripe which is entirely up to them. A lot of it is down to long term fans being disappointed. Take Hixxy for example. What if a fan first heard his sets/music back in 1995 when they were a teenager. They looked up to that artist, bought all his vinyl/album/tape pack releases, went to all the raves where he played, supported him and his production/mixing for 14 years. Then he decides to change his entire production style and his tracks stop sounding like hardcore at all. It's not easy for that fan to go off that artist or even admit that his new stuff is sh!t. They may still listen to Hixxy's next load of tracks though in the hope it goes back to the way it was. Fans can have an opinion but anything negative should be taken on the chin. The problem is when top tier artists openly start trying to "name and shame" people or mention a negative comment publicly because they know that a lot of the backside licking fans will instantly start attacking whoever has expressed dislike of that artist's work. I had that myself once before. Not going to name names but it was over a free album a few years ago. I was asking a top tier artist about prices to do a remix for a free album. They quoted a stupidly high figure. I explained it was for a free download album and asked if it could be done for a bit less. They started getting snotty with me. Anyway, I told someone else what a ripoff that price was (because it is). Next thing I know i'm getting messages from this top tier having a go at me. They even made a status twisting the truth claiming I had asked them to do a remix for free. Within minutes the backside lickers came out in force, demanding I be named and shamed. When the name of the free album series was posted, both myself and others involved with the album were slated and even sent a batch of quite threatening inbox messages. Not 1 person said "hang on a minute, did it really happen like that?"
wong	quote: Originally posted by SparkzMusic: I had that myself once before. Not going to name names but it was over a free album a few years ago. I was asking a top tier artist about prices to do a remix for a free album. that's gotta be breeze .....?
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by SparkzMusic: Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I believe this forum is filled with perhaps the most knowledgeable people anywhere regarding UK Hardcore. What do die hard hardcore fans do?? Simple... They join a forum. So here there's many people who have been into it since the start back in the early 90's. Peoples tastes can be different. In my opinion, everything being made by the top tier core artists these days is utter dogs mess and the stuff they made 5+ years ago was so much better. However some people may like the modern tripe which is entirely up to them. A lot of it is down to long term fans being disappointed. Take Hixxy for example. What if a fan first heard his sets/music back in 1995 when they were a teenager. They looked up to that artist, bought all his vinyl/album/tape pack releases, went to all the raves where he played, supported him and his production/mixing for 14 years. Then he decides to change his entire production style and his tracks stop sounding like hardcore at all. It's not easy for that fan to go off that artist or even admit that his new stuff is sh!t. They may still listen to Hixxy's next load of tracks though in the hope it goes back to the way it was. Fans can have an opinion but anything negative should be taken on the chin. The problem is when top tier artists openly start trying to "name and shame" people or mention a negative comment publicly because they know that a lot of the backside licking fans will instantly start attacking whoever has expressed dislike of that artist's work. I had that myself once before. Not going to name names but it was over a free album a few years ago. I was asking a top tier artist about prices to do a remix for a free album. They quoted a stupidly high figure. I explained it was for a free download album and asked if it could be done for a bit less. They started getting snotty with me. Anyway, I told someone else what a ripoff that price was (because it is). Next thing I know i'm getting messages from this top tier having a go at me. They even made a status twisting the truth claiming I had asked them to do a remix for free. Within minutes the backside lickers came out in force, demanding I be named and shamed. When the name of the free album series was posted, both myself and others involved with the album were slated and even sent a batch of quite threatening inbox messages. Not 1 person said "hang on a minute, did it really happen like that?" Brilliant post. Thanks for telling that story. I think you would be well within your rights to name and shame the artist here but I completely understand if you don't want to. It's disgusting behaviour. Well said regarding the state of the top tier though!
oxis	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: In my defence, I don't even know how you would turn Pigface into something that I would want to listen to. Scrap the whole thing and start again, I suppose. It's hard to give specific criticism. i always thought one should be polite when criticizing, and if he isn't then he should at least be helpful. this whole thing is really not as relevant or important as it seems (gammer sure has way bigger things to worry about for sure, and his response to the comment was already pretty humorous and peaceful), but now that we are in a thread specifically dedicated to that one thing i might aswell say that i think it is an incorrect attitude to say something is shit with no fundament whatsoever :L especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced to ignore it publicly or give a response that can be judged by everyone. but like i mentioned, the man handled it with a lot of humour and i actually laughed at it
Captain Triceps	I remember when all that happened! Something like ?500 for a track for the free album, if I remember correctly?
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by oxis: quote: Originally posted by Elliott: In my defence, I don't even know how you would turn Pigface into something that I would want to listen to. Scrap the whole thing and start again, I suppose. It's hard to give specific criticism. i always thought one should be polite when criticizing, and if he isn't then he should at least be helpful. this whole thing is really not as relevant or important as it seems (gammer sure has way bigger things to worry about for sure, and his response to the comment was already pretty humorous and peaceful), but now that we are in a thread specifically dedicated to that one thing i might aswell say that i think it is an incorrect attitude to say something is shit with no fundament whatsoever :L especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced to ignore it publicly or give a response that can be judged by everyone. but like i mentioned, the man handled it with a lot of humour and i actually laughed at it I'm not complaining about Gammer's response. I've already said I don't mind. I'm within my rights to say it's shit with no justification and he's within his rights to respond the way he did. No harm done. I don't think anyone really thinks this is a massive deal. You're right, it's funny.
SparkzMusic	"especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced" Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it. Same thing with top tier producers. They are getting paid, effectively the fans who like their work are paying their wages. We have all heard top tier producers saying about how hardcore music is their job and pays all the bills/the mortgage. So if that's the case, it should be treated like a job... people in employment have good days, bad days and "why the f**k do I bother?" days. Yet smile and carry on with the thought of payday at the end of the month. Private messages sent to top tier artists with constructive criticism go 1 of 2 ways. Either they ignore it and never reply or they will take a certain tone pretty much saying "I couldn't care less, it's my job, other people like it and they pay my wages so I will continue to produce this way" Tri - Just checked the saved screenies and yep that's the amount quoted.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by wong: quote: Originally posted by SparkzMusic: I had that myself once before. Not going to name names but it was over a free album a few years ago. I was asking a top tier artist about prices to do a remix for a free album. that's gotta be breeze .....? you asked this person to remix the track for you? might be squad-e. no one, not even a few years ago, was rushing to breeze for a remix.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by SparkzMusic: "especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced" Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it. Same thing with top tier producers. They are getting paid, effectively the fans who like their work are paying their wages. We have all heard top tier producers saying about how hardcore music is their job and pays all the bills/the mortgage. So if that's the case, it should be treated like a job... people in employment have good days, bad days and "why the f**k do I bother?" days. Yet smile and carry on with the thought of payday at the end of the month. Private messages sent to top tier artists with constructive criticism go 1 of 2 ways. Either they ignore it and never reply or they will take a certain tone pretty much saying "I couldn't care less, it's my job, other people like it and they pay my wages so I will continue to produce this way" Tri - Just checked the saved screenies and yep that's the amount quoted. Yeah, I completely agree with this. I also tend to make a division between paid and unpaid artists. I would never leave harsh, non-constructive criticism on a free track but when someone is asking you to pay for something or is being paid for something, you have much more room to criticise it. When there's money involved, the music is a product and, just like any other product, you have the right to say it's shit.
wong	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: quote: Originally posted by wong: quote: Originally posted by SparkzMusic: I had that myself once before. Not going to name names but it was over a free album a few years ago. I was asking a top tier artist about prices to do a remix for a free album. that's gotta be breeze .....? you asked this person to remix the track for you? might be squad-e. no one, not even a few years ago, was rushing to breeze for a remix. i just remember reading somewhere a few years ago that breeze was asking 500 quid to do a remix, whether it was related to what sparkz is talking about or not i really can't remember
Bee-Trax	I think he should consider making some Bonkers 7 styled music. Then nobody could complain. I think everyone here would agree with me. bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
oxis	quote: Originally posted by SparkzMusic: "especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced" Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it. Same thing with top tier producers. They are getting paid, effectively the fans who like their work are paying their wages. We have all heard top tier producers saying about how hardcore music is their job and pays all the bills/the mortgage. So if that's the case, it should be treated like a job... people in employment have good days, bad days and "why the fk do I bother?" days. Yet smile and carry on with the thought of payday at the end of the month. i don't think that analogy is appropriate, as there are many elements that are different between an everyday shop and an artist's catalog. the objectivity of the product's quality is different due to the fact that it can be evaluated by the item's utility when it comes to a shop, and that it cannot be evaluated at all when it comes to music because of different tastes. authority is also something that is different, some artists earn their money just freelancing. considering that, i'm not going to use that same analogy to continue the argument. quote: Originally posted by SparkzMusic: Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it. that doesn't give the customer the right to talk crap though lel. just because Obama has a bulletproof car doesn't give me the right to shoot it with a gun. it can have consequences: assuming we are talking about art, not everyone is capable of completely ignoring criticism, even if sounds trivial to objective people and people who think mostly rationally. it is not a matter of being a "cry baby", it is a matter of doing something for the people who might like your work, something you are proud of, and have one guy who doesn't like it shout at you that it is awful. you have no means of knowing whether that guy's opinion is valuable or not, so the rational reaction is to feel bad. i was at a panel with two writers recently actually, and when they were asked about how they take criticism their answer was that they didn't, simply because they did not read it anymore due to how awful and unproductive it made them feel. success raises one's ego really high, and the power of other people's opinions is destructive and often underestimated by a lot of people. i myself find it hard to comprehend this, as i always shrugged off harsh criticism from family and friends, but almost every artist i have met says the same thing and so i am convinced that they are right. criticism might hurt or not, but the consequences of hurting can reflect on the artist's work output and quality, so it is best to respect his work (criticising his attitude is fine though). that is not to say that you can't criticise art, because that is simply stupid. you can, as long as you know what the artist was trying to achieve, because then it is possible to rate it on a scale that the artist had in consideration while making his work. since most of us cannot just go up to Gammer and ask him what he was trying to do with his track, we have to resort to speculation created by listening to the track and trying to comprehend it's elements, but i think that most of the time it is (somewhat) accurate. i also admit criticism if the artist is somehow hurting the scene with his tracks. quote: Originally posted by Elliott:** Yeah, I completely agree with this. I also tend to make a division between paid and unpaid artists. I would never leave harsh, non-constructive criticism on a free track but when someone is asking you to pay for something or is being paid for something, you have much more room to criticise it. When there's money involved, the music is a product and, just like any other product, you have the right to say it's shit. it would give you a right to criticise him if music was a basic necessity for your daily life, but i don't think complaining that you don't like someone's songs is exactly the same thing as complaining that the grocery store does not have fresh products. besides that, buying his product is a choice you make, it gives you no right to complain about how the product's quality has influenced negatively your life, especially when there are previews for virtually everything on soundcloud. there is no point in writing criticism only to inform others either, since everybody likes different things. an informative text on what the track technically is would be useful, but that is impartial scientific analysis, not exactly criticism. the artist has no responsibilities towards the consumers (BESIDES, OF COURSE, WHAT HE PROMISES HIMSELF), so the consumers have no right to complain. the only responsibilities he might have are towards the label or whatever it demands from him, but we have nothing to do with that. it is up to the label to reprimand him, not us. if you think an artist has responsibilities towards the crowd, you are probably idolizing him too much. with a new hardcore style, Gammer/other new producers might have earned X new fans. he does not have to take responsibility for the old fans not adapting. btw i really hate how these big posts look so offensive, i was just trying to think of a response and suddenly wall of text. anyway i hope neither of you take my response as hostile (i think one would have to care a little bit too much to though lol)
Thumpa	I don't like all of his music but he seems to get a lot of stick on here, more than most I'd say. Anyway we had a chat about stuff last week on the HU podcast, little sit down 10 minute thing with me Gammer and Fracus, check it out!
Rawcous	Gammer is a talented fellow, that we can't deny. BUT he can be a bit of a dick. The way he calls people out like he has is just daft and he really doesn't like any form of critisism, as with a lot of the top tier, anyone who offers any form of critisism is immediately labelled as a hater.
Thumpa	The thing I don't get is, Gammer gets a lot of personalised messages stating why you don't like his music. **ing hell you don't hear me messaging Klubfiller every 5 minutes telling him I don't like his tunes, I just don't listen to his music or his sets and I don't go on any of his social media outlets. I often think that because Gammer is so approachable and has a quirky attitude, all the mentalists on the internet think they can just message him on the net calling him a **. Life isn't like that. Not sticking up for the kid in any way, this is the producer that ripped off Savage Garden, but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month into an amazing tune and made some wicked TWR tracks lately. I don't tell him I hate his Savage Garden rip every time I speak to him.
oxis	quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: I don't like all of his music but he seems to get a lot of stick on here, more than most I'd say. Anyway we had a chat about stuff last week on the HU podcast, little sit down 10 minute thing with me Gammer and Fracus, check it out! woa didn't know about this thanks. might make some people for some more defined opinions on him.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: The thing I don't get is, Gammer gets a lot of personalised messages stating why you don't like his music. **ing hell you don't hear me messaging Klubfiller every 5 minutes telling him I don't like his tunes, I just don't listen to his music or his sets and I don't go on any of his social media outlets. I often think that because Gammer is so approachable and has a quirky attitude, all the mentalists on the internet think they can just message him on the net calling him a **. Life isn't like that. Not sticking up for the kid in any way, this is the producer that ripped off Savage Garden, but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month into an amazing tune and made some wicked TWR tracks lately. I don't tell him I hate his Savage Garden rip every time I speak to him. Not about the personalized messages he's getting it's about his reaction to them. Yes he probably does get his fair share of them, but Klubfiller gets just as much if not more and it's very noticeable on his social media. The difference is Klubfiller doesn't bother to respond to them, and Gammer does. In him responding to it I think he instigates people into giving him more because it's clear it upsets him. What I don't get is why he has to be a massive cunt in the way he responds to some of the massive cunts that talk some shit about his music. He's one of the 2 most popular UK hardcore djs/producers currently out there alongside Darren Styles, yet instead of focusing on the massive praise he's getting he's going to focus on one negative comment out of a thousand positive comments that come his way. It's embarrassing, pathetic, and sad a man of his level should waste his time like that. BTW I may find him to be a bit of a massive cunt as a social media persona, and don't bother with him in person, but I still find him massively talented, so I don't normally criticize his work as a musician because I can appreciate the majority of them, with some exceptions.
CDJay	I'll take Ellipton menstruating online over dealing with a coachload of enraged Birkenheaders any day. I rarely dare to insert myself into any potential drama, these days, but.. What's the problem? For a scene supposedly on its arse there's textures and flavours for all palates atm. Support what you like, the natural order is that which is supported will sustain and that with widest support will thrive relatively. Shout about what you like, not what you don't. CDJay
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by CDJay: I'll take Ellipton menstruating online over dealing with a coachload of enraged Birkenheaders any day. hah!
CDJay	Petty Officer CDJay reporting for duty! Grand Admiral CDJay
Elliott	Some of these responses are just gold. quote: Carl Johnson Lets roleplay! "Hey Gammer big fan man but like ur music lacks m8 it is not complex like ur 2008 style wot u doin?? I think it wud b ur best intrst to use VEC 2 kick and clap m8 n write JP supersaw riff jus dnt need a harmony man jus write notes m8." Seriously, the debate is lame anyway. HEY DR DRE UR OLD BEATS WERE SO TIGHT NOW U USE WEAK KICKS N SUBS WTF MANN ???? Like ? Reply ? 2 hours ago wat Oh and I just saw this: quote: Jamie Donovan Problem is, there's plenty of people out there that love the 2008 stuff, and they are the same people that have been raving to you and buying albums that you feature on for the six years before 2008 and the six years since. What you made then and what you make now are fundamentally different (forget "better" or "worse - it's just totally different). That is obviously and understandably going to upset a few people and leave them feeling a bit nostalgic. You get a lot of shit directed at you because, for some reason, you generally don't seem to give much respect to the people described in the paragraph above. Call it being quirky, call it being in touch with your fans, call it whatever you want - but alienating long-standing loyal fans is a) generally not a pleasant thing to do, and b) bad business. Like ? 1 ? 28 minutes ago Great point. He will slate his old supersaw-driven stuff at any opportunity. It always strikes me as odd that he so casually dismisses the music that got him where he is today. His attitude seems to be "that stuff I used to make was shit and you're a mug if you bought it".
CDJay	There needs to be some way for mental health professionals to log them out remotely. Let's face it, without auto login that's that. CDJay
Rodz90	quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month heard this today... all i can say is wow, really really good remix!
arpz	Just wanna say that my favourite old gammer track is Gammer & Shauny C & Abeyance ft Jenna - Have you ever No youtube link cause there only seems to be the Cube::hard remix... it's gotta be one of my all time favourite tunes ever. Edit: listening to it now, it's a 'lump in the throat' tune for me :'(
ViolonC	Wow, nice thread making something out of nothing. A trollsy reply on a trollsy comment generates a wall of text that people make what they want it to be. Touch? Elliot! If anyone had read/remembered the comment on facebook/twitter it would be obvious what's going on. But hey, then there would be nothing to freak out about.
Bad Corey	quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month heard this today... all i can say is wow, really really good remix! Are you talking about the Darwin/Mr. E/Obie track? Because if so then DAMN I'm excited to hear that.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I don't understand the need to bring it to everybody's attention just so 30 people can turn round and say 'what a c***' or 'I'd like to see him do better'. Criticism should be welcomed. Holds a lot more weight than arse licking every little thing somebody does. Gammer is one of the all time greats as far as I'm concerned but no way would I pretend I like all his tunes just because it goes along with popular opinion. What do you think of his productions over the last few years? Were you impressed by Pigface? :P Just listened to PigFace and other than a couple of elements I actually liked the track! It's quirky yes, but it's definitely a track that you know Gammer is known to do. Is it far different than your basic UK hardcore that's out there? Definitely. Is it UK hardcore? A good number of people will probably not think it is. It certainly stretches the definition of UK hardcore, but so did Music Blocks by Fracus & Darwin and that track was brilliant and even managed to be nominated for track of the year for the Hardcore Heaven 2012 Awards.
DJ SMALOUM	GAMMER like a lot of artists was better between 2000-2010 (this is probably the reason who gets labels like NTWICH to make events special noughties). i think the hardcore scene should let rest the artists who are here for too long. the public needs new names like TRIPLESTAR,CYRAX etc... artists who gonna take care of our music
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by Bad Corey: quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month heard this today... all i can say is wow, really really good remix! Are you talking about the Darwin/Mr. E/Obie track? Because if so then DAMN I'm excited to hear that. It's on the HU podcast mix that just came out. It's a great remix. I didn't like how it began, but it got better and better as it progressed!
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: Wow, nice thread making something out of nothing. A trollsy reply on a trollsy comment generates a wall of text that people make what they want it to be. Touch? Elliot! If anyone had read/remembered the comment on facebook/twitter it would be obvious what's going on. But hey, then there would be nothing to freak out about. Nobody is freaking out, as far as I can tell! So far this has been a discussion thread for pretty much anything from the top tier hating on HHC to the quality of Pigface. Pretty much a standard topic on here!
CDJay	quote: Originally posted by Bad Corey: quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month heard this today... all i can say is wow, really really good remix! Are you talking about the Darwin/Mr. E/Obie track? Because if so then DAMN I'm excited to hear that. It's on the latest HU podcast... CDJay
ViolonC	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: Wow, nice thread making something out of nothing. A trollsy reply on a trollsy comment generates a wall of text that people make what they want it to be. Touch? Elliot! If anyone had read/remembered the comment on facebook/twitter it would be obvious what's going on. But hey, then there would be nothing to freak out about. Nobody is freaking out, as far as I can tell! So far this has been a discussion thread for pretty much anything from the top tier hating on HHC to the quality of Pigface. Pretty much a standard topic on here! Apologies for my choice of words but the number of posts today speaks for a "heightened interest". ;)
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by CDJay: quote: Originally posted by Bad Corey: quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month heard this today... all i can say is wow, really really good remix! Are you talking about the Darwin/Mr. E/Obie track? Because if so then DAMN I'm excited to hear that. It's on the latest HU podcast... CDJay There's a degree of redundancy in pointing out something already confessed. CDJay
CDJay	Inarguable. CDJay
Bad Corey	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: It's on the HU podcast mix that just came out. It's a great remix. I didn't like how it began, but it got better and better as it progressed! Wow yeah absolutely excellent tune. Further cementing my purchase of X.
DJ SMALOUM	a lot of people gonna insult me but i don't give a shiit. i went on the soundcloud of ELIOTT and i think he makes good tracks he needs a little work but his tracks are more beautiful than GAMMER. good melodies happy choice of synths and a good knowledge of the elements for make a beat. i even downloaded 2 of his tracks. and it's not very serious from someone notorious like GAMMER to answer like this to a listener
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by DJ SMALOUM: a lot of people gonna insult me but i don't give a shiit. i went on the soundcloud of ELIOTT and i think he makes good tracks he needs a little work but his tracks are more beautiful than GAMMER. good melodies happy choice of synths and a good knowledge of the elements for make a beat. i even downloaded 2 of his tracks. and it's not very serious from someone notorious like GAMMER to answer like this to a listener Wow, thank you very much. You've made my day! I'm a bad and inexperienced engineer, that is true, but I'm glad you can see the ideas underneath. :)
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by latininxtc: quote: Originally posted by CDJay: quote: Originally posted by Bad Corey: quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month heard this today... all i can say is wow, really really good remix! Are you talking about the Darwin/Mr. E/Obie track? Because if so then DAMN I'm excited to hear that. It's on the latest HU podcast... CDJay There's a degree of redundancy in pointing out something already confessed. CDJay Brilliant!
djDMS	The original Futureshock is an all time favourite of mine. Bit nervous about listening to it.
CDJay	Don't be; it's that rare remix that riffs off the original whilst daring to dream. I was, and am, thoroughly impressed. CDJay
djDMS	Here goes...
oxis	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: Wow, nice thread making something out of nothing. A trollsy reply on a trollsy comment generates a wall of text that people make what they want it to be. Touch? Elliot! If anyone had read/remembered the comment on facebook/twitter it would be obvious what's going on. But hey, then there would be nothing to freak out about. dammit :( why does this keep happening? i don't like putting effort into a post and then having the whole conversation being dismissed as banter or wall of text. for the longest time i have looked for a good justification to criticise music based only on what it sounds like, and i was hoping one of those guys would convince me. i don't like this disease of "lets not talk about anything that is seemingly escalating". it's not like anything more important than "lol this gammer made fun of this guy" is being discussed here meanwhile.
Claxton	Future Shock original is also one of my favs. Don't compare it to the original Dean or you will be disappointed. It's a very good track in its own right but just very different without many main elements of the original. I've grown to like it the more that I've heard it played. I've also been lucky to hear it played out a few times. Decent!
djDMS	quote: Originally posted by Claxton: Future Shock original is also one of my favs. Don't compare it to the original Dean or you will be disappointed. It's a very good track in its own right but just very different without many main elements of the original. I've grown to like it the more that I've heard it played. I've also been lucky to hear it played out a few times. Decent! Spot on there Ben! Really like it, but you're right, comparing it to the original is a definite no no.
Elipton	So has Gammer had a stroke? Why did Ponder suggest Gammer had a stroke?
CDJay	He left autographed photos and used lingerie. CDJay
DjZelous	I kinda do agree but i have to disagree, music is evolving as much as i prefer 2004-2010 hardcore, we cant do much to stop the genre from changing, i love gammers old trancy riffs and amazing melodies, some of his new stuff is slammin but you can compare it to any of his older stuff. To Quote Elliot "You used to be good but now, You are Bad"
Vladel	Funny thing is a mate from australia is over at the moment and he completely turned off hardcore when he went back in 2012 mainly due to the "dubcore shite". He was only ever a casual listener but had an understanding of the music to a point of catching the mainstream but nothing beyond that. We had a great afternoon when i got to show him some of the good stuff that came around since he left and told that the top tier can be ignored if need be and under that, there is still a fantastic scene still going. Basically i told him the top tier tried to kill it and the two men from scotland saved it! Lethal theory all the way....
_Jay_	quote: Originally posted by CDJay: but.. What's the problem? For a scene supposedly on its arse there's textures and flavours for all palates atm. Couldn't agree more. I dunno what the fcuk everyone's problem is. I don't know what Hardcore's problem is. Literally - I do not know what the problem is. All the pilled up morons go to the big raves with the shit music. I go to the nice small raves with choice beats and all the regular ravers who are absolute legends and lovely, lovely people. Everyone's happy. But apparently, The Scene is dying and "has to change its ways". People have been saying that for at least ten years. I still can't believe so many people lapped up Luna-C's fantasy speech a few months ago, either - again, adding to this feel and mass-stance that the scene is imperiled.
Hard2Get	quote: Couldn't agree more. I dunno what the fcuk everyone's problem is. I don't know what Hardcore's problem is. Literally - I do not know what the problem is. I don't like the modern sound and i still agree there is no problem. Things are much better than a few years back. I'm guessing the people making these claims haven't been listening to Hardcore for long enough to see how it evolves over time. The sound changed majorly in 1994, then 1997, then 1999, then 2002, then 2005 etc and with each stage there are people that don't like these changes (including myself) and think that the scene is now dead (not including myself) but it's really not the case. The only aspect of the scene that is really possible to die is the commercial/mainstream aspect of it. And since that is and never was a true representation of the scene anyway then that really doesn't matter. In fact it's very welcome so that more focus can be put on the actual music (since there is no longer any mainstream value). And this has been my interpretation of the situation over the last few years. The scene has moved progressively closer to being about the music again as it used to be before and is a lot more healthy. There might be less quantity but there is a lot more quality. No amount of quantity can ever beat good quality. There has always been this undercurrent of producers putting stuff out just because they like doing what they do (CDJay, Thumpa etc) and as long as that is the case it's not really possible for the scene to die. And this tends to be the kind of people that the scene attracts.
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by _Jay_: quote: Originally posted by CDJay: but.. What's the problem? For a scene supposedly on its arse there's textures and flavours for all palates atm. Couldn't agree more. I dunno what the fcuk everyone's problem is. I don't know what Hardcore's problem is. Literally - I do not know what the problem is. All the pilled up morons go to the big raves with the shit music. I go to the nice small raves with choice beats and all the regular ravers who are absolute legends and lovely, lovely people. Everyone's happy. But apparently, The Scene is dying and "has to change its ways". People have been saying that for at least ten years. I still can't believe so many people lapped up Luna-C's fantasy speech a few months ago, either - again, adding to this feel and mass-stance that the scene is imperiled. completely agree mate, I'm glad we have threads as lively as this as I have a filter on my work computer that blocks almost everything and have usually have nothing to read all day :(
oxis	meh everyone has something to complain about. makes them feel like the have authority or something, i guess. there is so much variety though, you have the new powerstomp stuff which is already gaining its own wave, and then you have people like Qygen making stuff out of the norm, and so much more stuff. there are still big artists making the classic style of hardcore though, to keep it on its feet, while the rest can experiment with whatever they want without potentially ruining the scene. EDIT: why does every conversation turn into either "the scene is great atm" or "the scene sux 90s was the time"
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by oxis: EDIT: why does every conversation turn into either "the scene is great atm" or "the scene sux 90s was the time" You could ask the same of so many topics on so many forums lol. People just like to discuss opinions. Or share them either way.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: Wow, nice thread making something out of nothing. A trollsy reply on a trollsy comment generates a wall of text that people make what they want it to be. Touch? Elliot! If anyone had read/remembered the comment on facebook/twitter it would be obvious what's going on. But hey, then there would be nothing to freak out about. Nobody is freaking out, as far as I can tell! So far this has been a discussion thread for pretty much anything from the top tier hating on HHC to the quality of Pigface. Pretty much a standard topic on here! Apologies for my choice of words but the number of posts today speaks for a "heightened interest". ;) It was a slow news day mate ;)
Thumpa	quote: There has always been this undercurrent of producers putting stuff out just because they like doing what they do (CDJay, Thumpa etc) and as long as that is the case it's not really possible for the scene to die Please don't put that responsibility on me and CDJay, I can honestly say if we sat down in front of cubase we would not have a clue what to do.
CDJay	We're putting stuff out, not writing it. As said This has the obvious advantage of actual critique; considered self and peer critique being something sorely lacking elsewhere. The worst thing about the rise of self released digital labels is that there is no-one actively assisting "new" talent sound better at this point. Even we've been off the boil wrapped up in our own thing to some degree. Paying for it now during HU7 compiling, yessirreee! CDJay
DJ SMALOUM	[/url] nice to see i'm not alone to see this attitude is pretty bad. for the people who didn't understand PEDRO or DAMIEN (google and reverso are your friends)
DJ SMALOUM	nice to see i'm not alone to see this attitude is pretty bad. for the people who didn't understand PEDRO or DAMIEN (google and reverso are your friends) http://s16.postimg.org/c1eth43md/AVIS_SUR_GAMMER.jpg
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: quote: There has always been this undercurrent of producers putting stuff out just because they like doing what they do (CDJay, Thumpa etc) and as long as that is the case it's not really possible for the scene to die Please don't put that responsibility on me and CDJay, I can honestly say if we sat down in front of cubase we would not have a clue what to do. Haha sorry yeah i just read that back and it makes me sound like I'm saying you two produce. I meant to say 'people' or 'people/labels and producers'. quote: This has the obvious advantage of actual critique; considered self and peer critique being something sorely lacking elsewhere. Yeah i think this is very useful for objectivity.
Samination	quote: Originally posted by DJ SMALOUM: nice to see i'm not alone to see this attitude is pretty bad. for the people who didn't understand PEDRO or DAMIEN (google and reverso are your friends) http://s16.postimg.org/c1eth43md/AVIS_SUR_GAMMER.jpg I might have missed something that hasnt been mentioned here, but did Gammer himself talk shit about Elliott's production? Anyways, that Pigface is a good track, but I think it's more aimed at people who like game music or 8bit than Hardcore or Jungle
trippnface	i find it pretty hilarious "I stopped making the 2008 era stuff because I find it painfully boring and over 9000% unchallenging to make" and absolute ****ing shit trap wanabee rave fusion music made for hyphy mainstream "ravers" that is literally the definition of untalented and painfully boring is the future and the apex of his skill.looool. a stroke might be too nice of an evaluation honestly. dj ego trip for sure. you can tell by how upset he gets when anybody speaks up on how bad his current sound is. dumbass kandi kid suckups on his page seriously don't help... it makes me wonder if they ever even listened to hardcore or just munch pills and praise the most popular dj spinning...whatever.
Hard2Get	quote: and absolute ****ing shit trap wanabee rave fusion music made for hyphy mainstream "ravers" that is literally the definition of untalented and painfully boring is the future and the apex of his skill.looool. I felt the same way about 2008 Hardcore (if you exchange the word "trap" for something else) so i think it's more a matter of perspective.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by Hard2Get: quote: and absolute ****ing shit trap wanabee rave fusion music made for hyphy mainstream "ravers" that is literally the definition of untalented and painfully boring is the future and the apex of his skill.looool. I felt the same way about 2008 Hardcore (if you exchange the word "trap" for something else) so i think it's more a matter of perspective. i can't see it to be honest. female vocals; sweeping rhythms; good tempo; piano;euphoric uplifting sound; all still in check pretty much stayed in line with the direction of hardcore in that aspect i think. all of those have been ripped away and badly replaced with a feeling nothing even slightly reminiscent of any past era hardcore like . current stuff just sounds like a bad attempt at mixing mainstream club rap sounds in hardcore. perspective indeed ;)
Samination	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by Hard2Get: quote: and absolute ****ing shit trap wanabee rave fusion music made for hyphy mainstream "ravers" that is literally the definition of untalented and painfully boring is the future and the apex of his skill.looool. I felt the same way about 2008 Hardcore (if you exchange the word "trap" for something else) so i think it's more a matter of perspective. i can't see it to be honest. female vocals; sweeping rhythms; good tempo; piano;euphoric uplifting sound; all still in check pretty much stayed in line with the direction of hardcore in that aspect i think. all of those have been ripped away and badly replaced with a feeling nothing even slightly reminiscent of any past era hardcore like . current stuff just sounds like a bad attempt at mixing mainstream club rap sounds in hardcore. perspective indeed ;) To be honest I kinda feel the same about 2008 Hardcore. I utterly hated 80-90% of what Gammer (and Dougal) made between 2004 and 2013
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by Hard2Get: quote: and absolute **ing shit trap wanabee rave fusion music made for hyphy mainstream "ravers" that is literally the definition of untalented and painfully boring is the future and the apex of his skill.looool. I felt the same way about 2008 Hardcore (if you exchange the word "trap" for something else) so i think it's more a matter of perspective. i can't see it to be honest. female vocals; sweeping rhythms; good tempo; piano;euphoric uplifting sound; all still in check pretty much stayed in line with the direction of hardcore in that aspect i think. all of those have been ripped away and badly replaced with a feeling nothing even slightly reminiscent of any past era hardcore like . current stuff just sounds like a bad attempt at mixing mainstream club rap sounds in hardcore. perspective indeed ;) To be honest I kinda feel the same about 2008 Hardcore. I utterly hated 80-90% of what Gammer (and Dougal) made between 2004 and 2013 interesting. i think the current shift in style is the hardest to swallow yet by a long shot; i can't see how it has anything to do with hardcore; which i don't think could of been argued before...that is really my point i suppose. i get some people don't like a change here and there... but this is like ordering red sauce pizza and getting white sauce....hardly the same ing thing at all! are they dumb enough to think i can't tell this is not the right kind of pizza? or did they just stop caring what type of pizza i like to eat ? equally insulting; don't try to shove some ****** pizza down my throat under another guise just because they can and some people don't care/notice. this is like pizza (music) de evolution lol
Elipton	Got to agree. Gammer can get as far in music as he likes, but if he can't take criticism on the chin, he's not a professional. At the end of the day, you do what you do because of passion. If your insecurity prompts you to respond to someone with an opinion, you're doing what you do for the wrong reasons. Added to that list can be Breeze as well. They take to their social pages to either make examples of people to elevate themselves or divide people with opinions from people with a blind admiration.
Rodz90	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Got to agree. Gammer can get as far in music as he likes, but if he can't take criticism on the chin, he's not a professional. At the end of the day, you do what you do because of passion. If your insecurity prompts you to respond to someone with an opinion, you're doing what you do for the wrong reasons. Added to that list can be Breeze as well. They take to their social pages to either make examples of people to elevate themselves or divide people with opinions from people with a blind admiration. I don't really see how it is criticism, he has straight out gone and said he is producing shit. I wouldn't dream of doing that to somebody to there face, what the hell makes it fine over the internet.
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by Hard2Get: quote: and absolute **ing shit trap wanabee rave fusion music made for hyphy mainstream "ravers" that is literally the definition of untalented and painfully boring is the future and the apex of his skill.looool. I felt the same way about 2008 Hardcore (if you exchange the word "trap" for something else) so i think it's more a matter of perspective. i can't see it to be honest. female vocals; sweeping rhythms; good tempo; piano;euphoric uplifting sound; all still in check pretty much stayed in line with the direction of hardcore in that aspect i think. all of those have been ripped away and badly replaced with a feeling nothing even slightly reminiscent of any past era hardcore like . current stuff just sounds like a bad attempt at mixing mainstream club rap sounds in hardcore. perspective indeed ;) To be honest I kinda feel the same about 2008 Hardcore. I utterly hated 80-90% of what Gammer (and Dougal) made between 2004 and 2013 interesting. i think the current shift in style is the hardest to swallow yet by a long shot; i can't see how it has anything to do with hardcore; which i don't think could of been argued before...that is really my point i suppose. i get some people don't like a change here and there... but this is like ordering red sauce pizza and getting white sauce....hardly the same ing thing at all! are they dumb enough to think i can't tell this is not the right kind of pizza? or did they just stop caring what type of pizza i like to eat ? equally insulting; don't try to shove some ****** pizza down my throat under another guise just because they can and some people don't care/notice. this is like pizza (music) de evolution lol This analogy has made me hungry for pizza
_Jay_	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: i get some people don't like a change here and there... but this is like ordering red sauce pizza and getting white sauce....hardly the same **ing thing at all! are they dumb enough to think i can't tell this is not the right kind of pizza? or did they just stop caring what type of pizza i like to eat ? equally insulting; don't try to shove some ****** pizza down my throat under another guise just because they can and some people don't care/notice. this is like pizza (music) de evolution lol I wonder why Hardcore invites pizza analogies. http://www.happyhardcore.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=56964&whichpage=8
ninja edit	completely agree with elliot
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by _Jay_: I wonder why Hardcore invites pizza analogies. I understand it's Hixxy's doing.
djDMS	Haha! I was planning on throwing a dog food pizza analogy in there myself
ponder	I agree with this: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: The thing I don't get is, Gammer gets a lot of personalised messages stating why you don't like his music. **ing hell you don't hear me messaging Klubfiller every 5 minutes telling him I don't like his tunes, I just don't listen to his music or his sets and I don't go on any of his social media outlets. I often think that because Gammer is so approachable and has a quirky attitude, all the mentalists on the internet think they can just message him on the net calling him a . Life isn't like that. Not sticking up for the kid in any way, this is the producer that ripped off Savage Garden, but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month into an amazing tune and made some wicked TWR tracks lately. I don't tell him I hate his Savage Garden rip every time I speak to him. And this: quote: Originally posted by CDJay:** I rarely dare to insert myself into any potential drama, these days, but.. What's the problem? For a scene supposedly on its arse there's textures and flavours for all palates atm. Support what you like, the natural order is that which is supported will sustain and that with widest support will thrive relatively. Shout about what you like, not what you don't. CDJay I simply don't understand the need to tell a producer that you think they're shit. There's loads of shit music in the world, so I just don't listen to it. Similarly, I can't see a problem with discussing music openly on forums. However, messaging an artist or contacting them directly through social media just to tell them you dislike them seems a little silly. For what it's worth, Gammer's response didn't seem particularly narky. I take far more issue with an artist who stands still and rinses their particular forte to death than I do with one who pushes new sounds with inconsistent results.
ponder	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: So has Gammer had a stroke? Why did Ponder suggest Gammer had a stroke? Because I was joking.
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by ponder: I simply don't understand the need to tell a producer that you think they're shit. Your tracks are rubbish m8 !
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by ponder: I simply don't understand the need to tell a producer that you think they're shit. There was no need but it was fun.
Mortis	quote: Originally posted by ponder: I agree with this: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: The thing I don't get is, Gammer gets a lot of personalised messages stating why you don't like his music. **ing hell you don't hear me messaging Klubfiller every 5 minutes telling him I don't like his tunes, I just don't listen to his music or his sets and I don't go on any of his social media outlets. I often think that because Gammer is so approachable and has a quirky attitude, all the mentalists on the internet think they can just message him on the net calling him a . Life isn't like that. Not sticking up for the kid in any way, this is the producer that ripped off Savage Garden, but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month into an amazing tune and made some wicked TWR tracks lately. I don't tell him I hate his Savage Garden rip every time I speak to him. And this: quote: Originally posted by CDJay:** I rarely dare to insert myself into any potential drama, these days, but.. What's the problem? For a scene supposedly on its arse there's textures and flavours for all palates atm. Support what you like, the natural order is that which is supported will sustain and that with widest support will thrive relatively. Shout about what you like, not what you don't. CDJay I simply don't understand the need to tell a producer that you think they're shit. There's loads of shit music in the world, so I just don't listen to it. Similarly, I can't see a problem with discussing music openly on forums. However, messaging an artist or contacting them directly through social media just to tell them you dislike them seems a little silly. For what it's worth, Gammer's response didn't seem particularly narky. I take far more issue with an artist who stands still and rinses their particular forte to death than I do with one who pushes new sounds with inconsistent results. All the words above I agree with 100%. It's nothing to do with me, or anyone else, what Gammer makes. It's his music so he can do what he wants with it. You don't like it you don't listen, problem solved.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Got to agree. Gammer can get as far in music as he likes, but if he can't take criticism on the chin, he's not a professional. At the end of the day, you do what you do because of passion. If your insecurity prompts you to respond to someone with an opinion, you're doing what you do for the wrong reasons. Added to that list can be Breeze as well. They take to their social pages to either make examples of people to elevate themselves or divide people with opinions from people with a blind admiration. I don't really see how it is criticism, he has straight out gone and said he is producing shit. I wouldn't dream of doing that to somebody to there face, what the hell makes it fine over the internet. I gave him actionable advice. That is the definition of constructive criticism. I would say the same thing to him in person if I had the opportunity so there's no element of disconnection between the internet and real life.
Rodz90	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Got to agree. Gammer can get as far in music as he likes, but if he can't take criticism on the chin, he's not a professional. At the end of the day, you do what you do because of passion. If your insecurity prompts you to respond to someone with an opinion, you're doing what you do for the wrong reasons. Added to that list can be Breeze as well. They take to their social pages to either make examples of people to elevate themselves or divide people with opinions from people with a blind admiration. I don't really see how it is criticism, he has straight out gone and said he is producing shit. I wouldn't dream of doing that to somebody to there face, what the hell makes it fine over the internet. I gave him actionable advice. That is the definition of constructive criticism. I would say the same thing to him in person if I had the opportunity so there's no element of disconnection between the internet and real life. Dear Elliott, Please go back to writing things that people want to hear, i think you have suffered a stroke or something because you used to be good and now you are bad. Have a think about what is causing you to write such shit on forums and respected artists Facebook pages and remove it from your life. Love, Rodz Actionable advice so just take it on the chin mate ;)
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by Rodz90: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Got to agree. Gammer can get as far in music as he likes, but if he can't take criticism on the chin, he's not a professional. At the end of the day, you do what you do because of passion. If your insecurity prompts you to respond to someone with an opinion, you're doing what you do for the wrong reasons. Added to that list can be Breeze as well. They take to their social pages to either make examples of people to elevate themselves or divide people with opinions from people with a blind admiration. I don't really see how it is criticism, he has straight out gone and said he is producing shit. I wouldn't dream of doing that to somebody to there face, what the hell makes it fine over the internet. I gave him actionable advice. That is the definition of constructive criticism. I would say the same thing to him in person if I had the opportunity so there's no element of disconnection between the internet and real life. Dear Elliott, Please go back to writing things that people want to hear, i think you have suffered a stroke or something because you used to be good and now you are bad. Have a think about what is causing you to write such shit on forums and respected artists Facebook pages and remove it from your life. Love, Rodz Actionable advice so just take it on the chin mate ;) For you, Rodz, I will try my best.
DarrenJ	I was critical of gammer on here like 5 years ago, he PM'd me a sarcastic msg which at the time I took as serious lol.
Cyrax	When was Elliott good ?
Josephson_Junction	quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: I can honestly say if we sat down in front of cubase we would not have a clue what to do. That's because Cubase isn't a good DAW... unlike Studio One! ;)
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by Josephson_Junction: quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: I can honestly say if we sat down in front of cubase we would not have a clue what to do. That's because Cubase isn't a good DAW... unlike Studio One! ;) They should probably pay you or something for all the advertising you do lol.
Evgeny
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? I hit my prime in 2012 and have been slowly declining ever since.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? Good producer in my opinion. He works hard on his tracks, and hasn't needed to ghost produce to get his tracks out. No offense intended, but your statement wasn't fair.
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? Good producer in my opinion. He works hard on his tracks, and hasn't needed to ghost produce to get his tracks out. No offense intended, but your statement wasn't fair. usually only the yanks don't get the sarcasm
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? Good producer in my opinion. He works hard on his tracks, and hasn't needed to ghost produce to get his tracks out. No offense intended, but your statement wasn't fair. usually only the yanks don't get the sarcasm Haha yeah i was gonna say you were clearly joking. And even if not, who gives a ****, it's just a comment on a forum. It's also a lot less offensive that the statement that this topic is discussing (if either are offensive at all).
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? Good producer in my opinion. He works hard on his tracks, and hasn't needed to ghost produce to get his tracks out. No offense intended, but your statement wasn't fair. usually only the yanks don't get the sarcasm Mine was sarcastic too? Didn't you get it? Remember that text looks the same whether it be literal or sarcastic.
djDMS	So really you were saying that Elliott is shit?
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? Good producer in my opinion. He works hard on his tracks, and hasn't needed to ghost produce to get his tracks out. No offense intended, but your statement wasn't fair. usually only the yanks don't get the sarcasm Mine was sarcastic too? Didn't you get it? Remember that text looks the same whether it be literal or sarcastic. I did'nt lol, wait we were both being sarcastic, so I think Elliotts is good and you think hes shit ? ha ha
Captain Triceps
Elliott	I don't understand what's going on. Here's a sloth:
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? Good producer in my opinion. He works hard on his tracks, and hasn't needed to ghost produce to get his tracks out. No offense intended, but your statement wasn't fair. Thanks mate. It's taken 3 years to do 5 tracks so maybe in a decade's time my engineering will be up to scratch! :) I actually assumed Cyrax was talking about my posts on here, like Rodz. Either way, this has been an entertaining thread.
Cyrax	You're more famous than me Elliott, I wouldn't expect any bookings at Together We Rise any time soon though
djDMS	Could be in with a shout of getting somewhere with GTYM though just to piss them off! :-P
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by Elliott: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: When was Elliott good ? Good producer in my opinion. He works hard on his tracks, and hasn't needed to ghost produce to get his tracks out. No offense intended, but your statement wasn't fair. Thanks mate. It's taken 3 years to do 5 tracks so maybe in a decade's time my engineering will be up to scratch! :) That's a lot quicker than my efforts lol
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: So really you were saying that Elliott is shit? I expect you to already know that. After all, aren't we all meant to be telepathic?
djDMS	My spidey senses were tingling so yes, probably
Hard2Get	Controversial.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: You're more famous than me Elliott, I wouldn't expect any bookings at Together We Rise any time soon though My dreams of joining the top tier are dead! :(
ViolonC	Have to say S3RL handles the matter a little bit better. :)
ninja edit	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: Have to say S3RL handles the matter a little bit better. :) When I think of old s3rl's sound it comes to my head something like artificial energy not this lmao
trippnface	lolololol https://soundcloud.com/djgammer/kanye-west-all-day-gammer-edit
djDMS	I actually like that
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I actually like that and i like dark-hi-tech psytrance; but i am not going to market it to people who like southern country music. why would anybody think uk hardcore fans want to hear shit rap music ? the people who they have enticed with their new shit music are the only ones who think this is mildly ok; because they DON'T know better!! i would boo his ass off stage so fast if he dropped that bunk . this is so bad my mind is blown. i despise that with all my entirety .
djDMS	So I'm not intelligent enough to know the difference or distinguish between what I like and what somebody else suggests I like? In no way do I associate this with Hardcore, but I wouldn't have normally listened to anything like it unless by accident. Don't be so presumptuous, and while you're at it calm down a bit.
wong	so ya sayin gammer should only upload hardcore on his soundcloud? ridiculous
oxis	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I actually like that and i like dark-hi-tech psytrance; but i am not going to market it to people who like southern country music. why would anybody think uk hardcore fans want to hear shit rap music ? the people who they have enticed with their new shit music are the only ones who think this is mildly ok; because they DON'T know better!! i would boo his ass off stage so fast if he dropped that bunk . this is so bad my mind is blown. i despise that with all my entirety . if you think gammer belongs to the hardcore scene exclusively in any way then you should probably give less shits about him
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: So I'm not intelligent enough to know the difference or distinguish between what I like and what somebody else suggests I like? In no way do I associate this with Hardcore, but I wouldn't have normally listened to anything like it unless by accident. Don't be so presumptuous, and while you're at it calm down a bit. I don't see the relevance of it either because it's not meant to be Hardcore. It's not bad at all. Not my style but it's very well produced. As good as anything in the top 40. It's far better than a lot of the Hardcore that people like. Gammer doesn't exist to satisfy the desires of Hardcore fans. He can produce what he likes and upload what he likes to soundcloud. Why would anyone ever question this? There seems to be a strange attitude of some people thinking that producers are in some kind of debt to their fans. If a random person uploaded more than one genre people would think it was ridiculous to question the fact there is more than one genre there, or that the person in question likes more than one genre. Because it is ridiculous. It's not like Gammer is making anyone listen to his music.
Impulse_Response	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: and i like dark-hi-tech psytrance; but i am not going to market it to people who like southern country music. why would anybody think uk hardcore fans want to hear shit rap music ? the people who they have enticed with their new shit music are the only ones who think this is mildly ok; because they DON'T know better!! i would boo his ass off stage so fast if he dropped that bunk . Funny because I like UK hardcore, dark-hi-tech psytrance, and southern country music. Maybe I should get my hands on a country acapella and do a hardcore or psytrance remix.
DJ D-Luc-D	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I actually like that and i like dark-hi-tech psytrance; but i am not going to market it to people who like southern country music. why would anybody think uk hardcore fans want to hear shit rap music ? the people who they have enticed with their new shit music are the only ones who think this is mildly ok; because they DON'T know better!! i would boo his ass off stage so fast if he dropped that bunk . this is so bad my mind is blown. i despise that with all my entirety . Dude, come on, have an open mind. You don't have to like it but allow him to have some freedom with what he produces. The fact is UK Hardcore is getting a lot more attention from "outsiders" now so it's not like it's completely the wrong target audience, even then it's not like he's made a promise to produce only hardcore for the rest of his life. Sure, if he'd been booked to play a hardcore set somewhere and he'd played this kind of stuff I'd understand people getting disappointed as it's like false advertisement but this is totally different because nobody's commissioning him to only make Hardcore forever. Anyway, it seems like plenty of people including me enjoyed it so you can't call it "shit" because it's obviously well-produced. How about "It's good but not to my tastes"?
Captain Triceps	It's good but not to my tastes.
The drunken scotsman	It is shite to be fair.
trippnface	if i am driving 300 miles and buying a ticket to hear a hardcore set i will be furious if he drops some ****** like that at any point. seriously? it does 100% nothing for me. and it has 100% nothing to with rave music or the party; especially hardcore rave music. Gammer can do whatever the ** he wants. but you CANNOT please everybody. there is no "one cure all " figure out who you want to please; and do it well. melting pots of too many different vibes and styles is trash. i like UK hardcore because IT IS UK hardcore. i dont want to go to a rave and be next to someone who is there to here trap. i dont want to go to a rave and hear trap. how about he just tells us what kind of set he is spinning? why do some hardcore djs feel entitled to drop whatever they want and expect everyone to take it because " they are an artist" no; i am paying cash to see you drop what you claim to be dropping; at a happy hardcore party. tons of people can make a "well produced track" that definitely doesn't make it good or worthy of my attention. i am seeking a very specific sound that gives me a very specific feeling ; within a scene that barely has any left to begin with; and they ruined a good lot of it with some really bad new labels. attracting a crowd that thinks this is "hardcore" ; and not only that; it is literally a subgroup of people who bring bad vibes to a rave. they are not ravers. maybe you guys don't get it...
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by DJ D-Luc-D: quote: Originally posted by trippnface: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: I actually like that and i like dark-hi-tech psytrance; but i am not going to market it to people who like southern country music. why would anybody think uk hardcore fans want to hear shit rap music ? the people who they have enticed with their new shit music are the only ones who think this is mildly ok; because they DON'T know better!! i would boo his ass off stage so fast if he dropped that bunk . this is so bad my mind is blown. i despise that with all my entirety . Dude, come on, have an open mind. You don't have to like it but allow him to have some freedom with what he produces. The fact is UK Hardcore is getting a lot more attention from "outsiders" now so it's not like it's completely the wrong target audience, even then it's not like he's made a promise to produce only hardcore for the rest of his life. Sure, if he'd been booked to play a hardcore set somewhere and he'd played this kind of stuff I'd understand people getting disappointed as it's like false advertisement but this is totally different because nobody's commissioning him to only make Hardcore forever. Anyway, it seems like plenty of people including me enjoyed it so you can't call it "shit" because it's obviously well-produced. How about "It's good but not to my tastes"? have you been listening to his sets? that is exactly what he is doing hes got some lame ass obsession with trap music and kanye west and thinks everyone else does too * honestly i think it is talentless trash; i can turn on the radio and hear really bad music like that for the most basic commercial brainwashed people 24/7 kanye west is a joke. not a role model
oxis	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: if i am driving 300 miles and buying a ticket to hear a hardcore set i will be furious if he drops some ****** like that at any point. there is a big difference between what he plays at a set and what he uploads to soundcloud. you were bashing the latter and suddenly it's about live shows. someone remind me of what we are talking about again? quote: Originally posted by trippnface:** have you been listening to his sets? that is exactly what he is doing hes got some lame ass obsession with trap music and kanye west and thinks everyone else does too * honestly i think it is talentless trash; i can turn on the radio and hear really bad music like that for the most basic commercial brainwashed people 24/7 kanye west is a joke. not a role model vote with your wallet. don't go to his shows clearly he is experimenting and if it doesn't stick then it doesn't stick. the worst that can happen is a few misinformed ravers mistake trap for hardcore or the other way around (which is RETARDED because trap is 50x more popular than hardcore and they sound nothing alike). the rest boils down to you not liking something, which is ok but that doesn't give you the right to say it is inherently bad lol
Samination	NekoShuffle, is that you? :P
djDMS	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: if i am driving 300 miles and buying a ticket to hear a hardcore set i will be furious if he drops some ****** like that at any point. seriously? it does 100% nothing for me. and it has 100% nothing to with rave music or the party; especially hardcore rave music. Gammer can do whatever the ** he wants. but you CANNOT please everybody. there is no "one cure all " figure out who you want to please; and do it well. melting pots of too many different vibes and styles is trash. i like UK hardcore because IT IS UK hardcore. i dont want to go to a rave and be next to someone who is there to here trap. i dont want to go to a rave and hear trap. how about he just tells us what kind of set he is spinning? why do some hardcore djs feel entitled to drop whatever they want and expect everyone to take it because " they are an artist" no; i am paying cash to see you drop what you claim to be dropping; at a happy hardcore party. tons of people can make a "well produced track" that definitely doesn't make it good or worthy of my attention. i am seeking a very specific sound that gives me a very specific feeling ; within a scene that barely has any left to begin with; and they ruined a good lot of it with some really bad new labels. attracting a crowd that thinks this is "hardcore" ; and not only that; it is literally a subgroup of people who bring bad vibes to a rave. they are not ravers. maybe you guys don't get it... Smashing. But you're using what you want as a basis for what everyone else should want too.
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by trippnface: if i am driving 300 miles and buying a ticket to hear a hardcore set i will be furious if he drops some ****** like that at any point. seriously? it does 100% nothing for me. and it has 100% nothing to with rave music or the party; especially hardcore rave music. Gammer can do whatever the ** he wants. but you CANNOT please everybody. there is no "one cure all " figure out who you want to please; and do it well. melting pots of too many different vibes and styles is trash. i like UK hardcore because IT IS UK hardcore. i dont want to go to a rave and be next to someone who is there to here trap. i dont want to go to a rave and hear trap. how about he just tells us what kind of set he is spinning? why do some hardcore djs feel entitled to drop whatever they want and expect everyone to take it because " they are an artist" no; i am paying cash to see you drop what you claim to be dropping; at a happy hardcore party. tons of people can make a "well produced track" that definitely doesn't make it good or worthy of my attention. i am seeking a very specific sound that gives me a very specific feeling ; within a scene that barely has any left to begin with; and they ruined a good lot of it with some really bad new labels. attracting a crowd that thinks this is "hardcore" ; and not only that; it is literally a subgroup of people who bring bad vibes to a rave. they are not ravers. maybe you guys don't get it... But this isn't a rave he's playing at. It's his soundcloud account. So none of that really matters because he's not going to be playing it at a rave.
djDMS	Besides, i'd NEVER go to an event just to see 1 DJ, regardless of how 'big' they are.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Besides, i'd NEVER go to an event just to see 1 DJ, regardless of how 'big' they are. I would. But that's because here where I live it's a rarity to even see one well-known hardcore DJ since they're expensive to book. And they are usually booked one at a time. And on even rarer occasions, I'd travel the distant for certain DJs, like when Kevin Energy did his final US appearances before "retiring" me and 2 friends drove almost 800 miles just to see him in Nashville. But we also had the chance to have drinks and dinner with him the 2 evenings before his show so yea that was worth it! :) But these days I probably wouldn't travel great distances like that anymore for just one DJ unless it's an extremely rare situation like that one was. As far as that travesty of a track goes, it's awful. But that doesn't mean I despise what gammer has become just because of that track. Like others have mentioned, he's not promoting it as a hardcore track nor has he went full-on trap at raves. Someone needs to get over themselves and stop overreacting.
Claxton	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Besides, i'd NEVER go to an event just to see 1 DJ, regardless of how 'big' they are. What if it was your favourite DJ and it was their last even set before they retired? What if Brisk was playing an 8 hour set and was the only DJ playing? and it was his last EVER set!
Hard2Get	quote: Originally posted by Claxton: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Besides, i'd NEVER go to an event just to see 1 DJ, regardless of how 'big' they are. What if it was your favourite DJ and it was their last even set before they retired? What if Brisk was playing an 8 hour set and was the only DJ playing? and it was his last EVER set! In other words what if it was Claxton?
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: It is shite to be fair. Completely fair.
djDMS	quote: Originally posted by Claxton: quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Besides, i'd NEVER go to an event just to see 1 DJ, regardless of how 'big' they are. What if it was your favourite DJ and it was their last even set before they retired? What if Brisk was playing an 8 hour set and was the only DJ playing? and it was his last EVER set! Sigh!
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by DarrenJ: I was critical of gammer on here like 5 years ago, he PM'd me a sarcastic msg which at the time I took as serious lol. This deserves further explanation. Gammer was killing it 5 years ago (Everytime I Hear Your Name, Anybody Else But You, Lifting Me Higher, Ambient Angels, All My Dreams, Shine Your Light..). What were you criticising?
ViolonC	quote: Originally posted by ninja edit: quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: Have to say S3RL handles the matter a little bit better. :) When I think of old s3rl's sound it comes to my head something like artificial energy not this lmao Well, the text was probably what i wanted to reference. ;)

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