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T O P I C R E V I E W
arpz
What do you reckon? There's some pretty vocal points of view going on in the thread. I am 'in', it's expensive but I'm a sucker for a limited edition or exclusive.
People are saying that it's just a cash grab which I guess is true, it's not quite the 'yay ham is coming back' type feeling I would've expected from posting a thread with the subject of 'DJ Ham - New album' but it's still quite a cool thing I reckon.
djDMS
If it WAS 'Ham is back' then I'd be super excited. But I don't think it is. It's been made to sound like 'lob a load of money my way and i'll produce some new Hardcore'.
No way will i be paying ?100 for ten digital tracks (regardless of how good they are).
I can understand the need to guarantee the money up front to make it possible, but there must be easier (and less devisive) ways to do it?
arpz
I reckon it'd be better to do a Kickstarter, 10 track album, 10/15 quid for physical copy, goal reached at 10k and put some special editions/signed copies etc in for higher pledge levels, job done. I've asked him why the exclusivity is important
Vladel
I don't like paying ?10 for ten tracks unless I like at least half of them never mind 100 quid
SparkzMusic
Not good at all.
1) This modern day scene has 4 or 5 different sections. There's the big name pro's for starters. Let's take Darren Styles. We know he obviously earns very nice amounts of cash and although I stopped liking his music years ago, he has been consistent and stayed with the scene throughout. He hasn't used his previously established name to cash in. He has always been established and active (force and styles, breeze and styles, darren styles, etc).
2) There's people like Fracus and Darwin, who although i'm sure make some cash, it's not the same level of big bucks. They genuinely love the music, want the scene to get bigger and bigger, and everything they are involved in reflects that.
3) Next would be the producers who have been producing for quite a long time, but have their own day jobs. They are 100% in it for the love of the music, and while from time to time they might earn a few quid for some weekend beers, all of their work is done for the love of the music.
4), 5), 6) The other sections would include fans who don't produce, newbie producers and people who are still learning.
The point i'm making, and this is no disrespect to Ham, but where does he fit in with these sections?
He was a legend of the scene who put in a lot of hard work years ago and had many label releases, but he eventually turned his back on the entire scene. Which IMO revoked his legendary status and made way for others.
He's simply using his previously established name to come back and in part make some money (as he says with still needing to be able to pay the bills). Where's his entitlement? What has he bought to the scene in the last 5 or so years? (nothing).
Especially due to sections 2) and 3) of the scene, the scene does not need him and will not pay his bills because he feels like making a bit of UK Hardcore again and only can do it for money because he had fans 10 years ago.
At the end of the day, if he want's the scene to pay his bills, he would have to contribute to the modern day scene first and show he can bring something to the table in today's market.
*I'm not telling him what he can and can't do, i'm just voicing an opinion and because of my opinion (voiced above), I would say there is no chance that even a fraction of the target number of people will pledge ?100 each*
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
I don't like paying ?10 for ten tracks unless I like at least half of them never mind 100 quid
This. Imagine paying ?100 for a few tracks that turned out to be crap in your opinion. Ham was involved in many good tracks over the years, but I don't agree with this tactic. Good luck to him if it works, I'm pretty sceptical it will tbh, but what do I know.
In the words of fellow Scot Duncan Bannantyne "I'm out".
Captain Triceps
Yeah, there are definitely better ways to go about this. He can talk as much as he wants about the time and effort he will need to put in, we all know no-one would do it for free - but from our point of view it's still 100 sheets for ten tracks. I like exclusivity and all that as much as the next guy, but still. He did say if more then 100 people got on board then costs could come down.
But does it really take six months to produce ten tracks? If you drop everything, other music projects, gigs etc and are in the studio all the time? I'm as amateurish as it gets when it comes to producing so I don't know what's involved with the pros but I'd not have thought it would take that long to put together ten UK hardcore tracks. Sorry if I'm wrong, I just genuinely wouldn't expect it. (And as one cynic pointed out, he might well have made the tracks already - but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt!)
Maybe he could do something like the Luna-C boxset from a few years ago. Get a few other names involved for some remixes, collabs and whatnot, chuck in some goodies, jobs a good 'un.
I'd definitely love to own this but it would have to be considerably less expensive before I could really think about it.
trippnface
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm well ; shit
DjZelous
Im a huge fan of DJ Ham, i own a bunch of his old next gen vinyl, but 100 pounds, shieeeet. Something that he can do is get in contact with the Next Generation crew and pull an album together, or even on hardcore underground!
If i took my current all time top ten and lets say for arguement none of them had been released but i knew the tracks would be my top ten of all time should i own them, i'm still not sure if i could spend a 100 quid on them.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
Well it's better than the reply I got from Vinylgroover 10 years ago. When I asked him if he would ever released his old stuff digitally (well my real question was about if he was OK with people pirating his "vinyl only" happy hardcore releases). . His respons was "buy my new music".
silver
Viperstar and HU did kickstarters and both were funded, Ham should do that :)
Cyrax
I will wait for Samination to fileshare them
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
I will wait for Samination to fileshare them
No, that was some other blonde swede who does that :P
robertybob
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
I will wait for Samination to fileshare them
No, that was some other blonde swede who does that :P
10 HHC.com members give Samination ?10, he buys the tracks from Ham and passes them on the 10. Simple!
Mansy
Looks to me like Ham is going to be slapping his ham on how many people will go for this!
Cyrax
quote:Originally posted by robertybob:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
I will wait for Samination to fileshare them
No, that was some other blonde swede who does that :P
10 HHC.com members give Samination ?10, he buys the tracks from Ham and passes them on the 10. Simple!
I wouldn't do this, but it did cross my mind that you could get 20 people to club together and get them that way
Captain Triceps
He has said that it won't work if he doesn't stick to the original plan. 100 people will pay 100 pounds and only they will be allowed the music, because at that price they'd be unlikely to share them online. I'd love the tracks but I simply don't have 100 quid to spend on ten .wav files, and I'm certain I'm not the only one.He can do what he wants of course, but there will now be hundreds of genuine fans wanting his music who will be missing out. Not everyone is a filesharer. But one of the lucky 100 might be, or might innocently do a copy for a mate that again gets copied and shared with their mates. Maybe someone will make too many copies for himself to play and has one nicked and doesn't even notice.
Also it's a little patronising to be told that people are happy to spend hundreds of pounds in the pub or on iPhone apps and the like. Those are likely the sort of people who don't pay for music anyway, or who are simply loaded.
I'm not saying he should do it for nothing, or even next to nothing. I just think it's a little unfair that people who have been fans for years, decades even, can't enjoy the music because it is prohibitively expensive.
Maybe he will put up a free mix or something.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
He has said that it won't work if he doesn't stick to the original plan. 100 people will pay 100 pounds and only they will be allowed the music, because at that price they'd be unlikely to share them online. I'd love the tracks but I simply don't have 100 quid to spend on ten .wav files, and I'm certain I'm not the only one.He can do what he wants of course, but there will now be hundreds of genuine fans wanting his music who will be missing out. Not everyone is a filesharer. But one of the lucky 100 might be, or might innocently do a copy for a mate that again gets copied and shared with their mates. Maybe someone will make too many copies for himself to play and has one nicked and doesn't even notice.
Also it's a little patronising to be told that people are happy to spend hundreds of pounds in the pub or on iPhone apps and the like. Those are likely the sort of people who don't pay for music anyway, or who are simply loaded.
I'm not saying he should do it for nothing, or even next to nothing. I just think it's a little unfair that people who have been fans for years, decades even, can't enjoy the music because it is prohibitively expensive.
Maybe he will put up a free mix or something.
well he said that he is willing to lower the price as long as he meets his 100 person goal.
Ken Masters
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
I'm not saying he should do it for nothing, or even next to nothing. I just think it's a little unfair that people who have been fans for years, decades even, can't enjoy the music because it is prohibitively expensive.
Maybe he will put up a free mix or something.
Of course you'll hear the music. Most of the 100 people will feature at least one track in every mix they do until the day they die!
This is exactly why its clear its not aimed at the listeners. The way I see it is it appeals to the DJs looking for some seriously exclusive music &, going by some of his other comments, producers.
Its very easy to be blinded by the asking price but it all depends on what you aim to gain from backing it.
Cyrax
I know music is entirely subjective but the expectations on how good the tracks will be is set very high.
Captain Triceps
It's aimed at anyone who is willing and able to chuck a hundred pounds his way. The money is to justify his costs.
I'm positive someone will do a mix featuring all the tracks, if he doesn't do it himself. I'd be happy enough to hear that. It's just a bit of a shame I'll never be able to play one out or include one in a mix of my own.
By the way, what I'm saying isn't meant to be some kind of dig at Ham or anyone else, I'm not bitter, I guess I'm just a tad disappointed.
Cyrax
I'm interested in doing it but worried that I won't like the tracks, I know his productions levels are top notch and I'm a massive fan of his drum and bass, but there are lots of tracks out there by producers I love that I don't like, would hate to pay ?100.00 and only like potentially 2 of the tracks on the album!
Sorry DJ Ham that ship has already sailed and you jumped
100 quid? Nah would rather have the Raver Baby back catalogue for free.
SparkzMusic
quote:Originally posted by Ken Masters:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
I'm not saying he should do it for nothing, or even next to nothing. I just think it's a little unfair that people who have been fans for years, decades even, can't enjoy the music because it is prohibitively expensive.
Maybe he will put up a free mix or something.
Of course you'll hear the music. Most of the 100 people will feature at least one track in every mix they do until the day they die!
This is exactly why its clear its not aimed at the listeners. The way I see it is it appeals to the DJs looking for some seriously exclusive music &, going by some of his other comments, producers.
Its very easy to be blinded by the asking price but it all depends on what you aim to gain from backing it.
What makes you think any dj's who want exclusives to play need Ham's music? There's more decent tracks out there than ever. There's more producers than ever making quality tracks which means most dj's will know several producers and be able to get pre release exclusives before the masses get them on release date.
The scene isn't a cash cow for a reason. It means people do mixes with the awesome tracks that are about now, introduce others to tracks they might never hear otherwise, link them to the artists and where to download or buy that track. Which means decent quality artists who put hours, days, weeks, months and even years into the hardcore scene get more publicity which makes the long hours of unpaid production all worth it.
Ham's idea is very backwards. It's not 1997 again where if you heard a track you loved, the only way of hearing it would be to fast forward a helter skelter tape, listen to it, rewind and play it again.
It should be about consistent progress. Not coming back, doing something which makes him money and then vanishing again from the scene.
Vladel
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
He has said that it won't work if he doesn't stick to the original plan. 100 people will pay 100 pounds and only they will be allowed the music, because at that price they'd be unlikely to share them online. I'd love the tracks but I simply don't have 100 quid to spend on ten .wav files, and I'm certain I'm not the only one.He can do what he wants of course, but there will now be hundreds of genuine fans wanting his music who will be missing out. Not everyone is a filesharer. But one of the lucky 100 might be, or might innocently do a copy for a mate that again gets copied and shared with their mates. Maybe someone will make too many copies for himself to play and has one nicked and doesn't even notice.
Also it's a little patronising to be told that people are happy to spend hundreds of pounds in the pub or on iPhone apps and the like. Those are likely the sort of people who don't pay for music anyway, or who are simply loaded.
I'm not saying he should do it for nothing, or even next to nothing. I just think it's a little unfair that people who have been fans for years, decades even, can't enjoy the music because it is prohibitively expensive.
Maybe he will put up a free mix or something.
well he said that he is willing to lower the price as long as he meets his 100 person goal.
that just means it's purely financial
DjZelous
For the price, he might as well get this made as a cd or even a limited double vinyl! I would not pay 100 pounds for files that live in my hard drive
arpz
Agree or disagree, people are being proper twats about it. There's guys on there talking about pooling together to get it cheap or 100% that it deserves to be leaked. It really should be - if you are prepared to pay for it, buy it, if you're not, then don't and move on.
djDMS
Yeah, no need for anybody to be a dick about it.
If you don't like it, don't get involved.
I don't agree, so i won't be buying it for various reasons.
BUT, it doesn't warrant a lot of the shite i've read about it.
Ham has always been one of my favourite producers - that hasn't changed.
If he makes a load of money out of it, it'll go some way towards making up for the rubbish recognition he's had over the years (still no idea why he was so criminally overlooked).
If people get on board, lovely. I won't spoil their fun
The drunken scotsman
Maybe he was overlooked for overpricing himself?
djDMS
From what I've heard from others he wasn't overpriced at all.
The drunken scotsman
Yeah I'm sure that's the case, was only making a joke in reference to the ridiculous price he's put on these 10 tracks.
I think part of the problem Ham had was that he was in Brisk's shadow. Brisk was always the one known for having great mixing skills and he seemed to get loads of bookings, whereas nobody knew too much about Ham the DJ. Ham has obvious talent in the studio and that was evident in his solo work. Suppose it was a bit like fellow Next Generation producer Vagabond, don't think I ever seen him DJ but always loved his productions.
I can't beleive he is half way already, that is just simply insane.
youngson
Had a few too many drinks to read the comments.
I registered my interest to buy this though and here are my reasons.
1. It's bloody DJ HAM. He's a pioneer of the scene, his productions have always been great. Why would this be any different? He can even do DnB, it'l be interesting to see how much of that he puts into these tunes.
2. I'm quite excited of being only 100 people to have this. (I wouldn't pay this much if more had it, even though i've paid for rare dnb of 100 for 25 quid(hardcore is the true love though).)
3. Maybe if we do this, he will do more?
4. I like supporting artists. I fkin love hardcore man, if dj ham needs my money to make a bloody album, have it son, bloody have it, i'll only piss it up against a wall anyway.
Bring Me Round To Love
You don't need that much money, just make a CD album
Hardcore has changed alot since the NG/BB days and not for the good!
If you want to help poor DJ HAM pay his bills go ahead, a fool and his money are soon parted.
wong
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Suppose it was a bit like fellow Next Generation producer Vagabond, don't think I ever seen him DJ but always loved his productions.
Im sure i read years ago that he doesn't dj?
Ken Masters
quote:Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
quote:Originally posted by Ken Masters:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
I'm not saying he should do it for nothing, or even next to nothing. I just think it's a little unfair that people who have been fans for years, decades even, can't enjoy the music because it is prohibitively expensive.
Maybe he will put up a free mix or something.
Of course you'll hear the music. Most of the 100 people will feature at least one track in every mix they do until the day they die!
This is exactly why its clear its not aimed at the listeners. The way I see it is it appeals to the DJs looking for some seriously exclusive music &, going by some of his other comments, producers.
Its very easy to be blinded by the asking price but it all depends on what you aim to gain from backing it.
What makes you think any dj's who want exclusives to play need Ham's music? There's more decent tracks out there than ever. There's more producers than ever making quality tracks which means most dj's will know several producers and be able to get pre release exclusives before the masses get them on release date.
As much as I love to see how well Hardcore is doing at the minute, judging by the people who frequent this site, I'm not the only one who understands that the overall standard & quality control has seriously slipped.
There really aren't many Hardcore producers id consider backing in a project like this but Ham is definitely one I have faith in making the whole thing worthwhile.
Combine that with the experience he's gained through his DnB venture, not to mention the new contacts he's gained. So yeah, I'm curious to see what this new project will produce & getting hold of these tracks appeals to me. This may well be something that re-writes the rule books & I'd like to think I helped him in making it happen.
Its sad that the audience will be limited of course, but he clearly feels this is the only way to justify taking this on & I have no reason the believe the guy is in it to make a quick buck.
djDMS
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Yeah I'm sure that's the case, was only making a joke in reference to the ridiculous price he's put on these 10 tracks.
Doh!
My mistake, didn't see who'd replied when I commented ;-)
Samination
Well the thing that bugs me the most is the chance to miss a superb track. But no 1 track is ever worth 100 quid. And I had no problems buying a Video Game soundtrack (CD) for +50GBP
Cyrax
considering doing this now just for the crack!
Ken Masters
I have to agree with what a lot of people have mentioned, it needs to be some sort of physical release. A special edition vinyl with digital copies too would be excellent but a little farfetched. At the very least a CD.
A simple digital download would take something away from what could be a real special release but nothings set in stone yet. That decision will probably make or break it for me.
Captain Triceps
I'm very curious, almost to the point of just saying "fuck it, it's only a hundred quid".
Maybe if he chucked in his back cat, mixes, older remix packs, and something physical (and I'm counting memory sticks!), just something else to make it that bit more special I'd be more inclined.
He did say people were probably going to club together to buy the tracks, which he doesn't mind so much as long as they don't get leaked. Just mentioning, is all...
trippnface
i dunno; i think he knocked his head.
how about he plays next HTID or actually does something with Brisk?
too much ****ing money for pretty much nothing.
look how butthurt he gets when someone suggests it will get shared?
" how dare they would **** over their hardcore brothers and sisters " !!!
Huh? we been right here ; where you been; hardcore " brother" ?
havent heard shit from him for years and years; now what? make a few tracks and disappear?
Naw; the hardcore scene has been looking out for itself without Ham; and his obvious lack of love for it. That is what i get from reading this ordeal.
Ham > Hamillton. Always.
what a joke.
with that much cash; he could for sure kickstart something for ; his long time; far more loyal; not dnb fans....cmon hardcore brother!!!!
when is the last time he did anything for the hardcore scene? or tried? asked about tracks or albums? kept in contact with other artists; about hardcore? listened to hardcore? went to a hardcore gathering?
is this about hardcore; or money?
Samination
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
it's about people who kept asking him for new music. I presume he justifed the 100 x 100gpb price on what he usually earns for 10 tracks under his Hamilton name. If that's false and is much higher than he actually earns, his joke about "not the same as Seduction" reared it's ugly face and showed that HAM is even more of a money grabber than Seduction ever was.
ViolonC
I have thought about it for a bit and i fail so how this could be anything else than about money or his own ego if it's carried out as expressed. Because artificially limiting something is only done because of those two reasons. Any people who say it adds value, let's guess in what this 'more value' is measured. He's not helping the scene, he's not doing it for the music.
I'm though curious what will happen if the thing leaks. It's to be expected and Ham doesn't need to care about it after he got paid.
Maybe there is a turn-around and all the backers get a golden shiny vinyl or CD or small Statue with their name in and the album is digitally released for all - better even: free. This would actually be awesome. But i guess that wouldn't be enough to make 100 people feel "special" enough to pay 100 bucks.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
I have thought about it for a bit and i fail so how this could be anything else than about money or his own ego if it's carried out as expressed. Because artificially limiting something is only done because of those two reasons. Any people who say it adds value, let's guess in what this 'more value' is measured. He's not helping the scene, he's not doing it for the music.
I'm though curious what will happen if the thing leaks. It's to be expected and Ham doesn't need to care about it after he got paid.
Maybe there is a turn-around and all the backers get a golden shiny vinyl or CD or small Statue with their name in and the album is digitally released for all - better even: free. This would actually be awesome. But i guess that wouldn't be enough to make 100 people feel "special" enough to pay 100 bucks.
Well 4 people bought that 1 million dollar diamond app on apple itunes store. Heck one even DIDNT ASK for refund
the thing that worries me is if more people start doing it, could be the death of the whole music ownership.
arpz
I don't get what you mean by that?
Vladel
Before i explain myself i just wanna say that hardcore is already expensive compared to other genres and it's also a niche genre. We have songs that are never released which is bad enough and 10 quid for a 10 track album is bad enough when a 12 song pop album goes for 7 quid. We also have to wait longer than any other genre for a lot of releases on top of that so here comes Ham and his idea of a ridiculously overpriced exclusive music that a select bunch of people will pay for.
Assuming this goes ahead and Ham makes his money, others will look at this model you can bet and the few idiots that put up with this can contribute to it becoming more the done thing. All of a sudden premium costs would just be acceptable and the majority of people would just be excluded from ownership of anything considered "top tier" in a scene that lets say would be considered "working class" at best. Meanwhile the odd few with more money than sense would slowly be the very cause of the demise of the scene for the sake of exclusivity.
I know it's an extreme example of what could happen but it could. This needed to be laughed off the face of the earth and the enthusiasm by some is frankly scary to me because i love hardcore i want to be able to carry on buying music and clothe my kids at the same time.
CDJay
No point me commenting directly, but f*** me this stirred up a hornets nest.
The take-away is... the genre is clearly doomed. No respect for talent, no idea what is required to entice the same, we're literally saying "the love" is a replacement for any talent, experience, track record and worth. Gargle your CV, the part timers are here.
I really pray you don't all treat your medical needs similarly.
TEN grand to have a time-proven-anthem-production-genre-defining engineer come back on a passion derived whim seems unreasonable? Over six months? That's less than minimum wage.
I literally don't know what to say.
This isn't about "this", at all, but it shows true colours from all corners.
The entitled upstarts begrudging anyone with a fanbase, the listeners who think that someone capable of excelling in any area should dance on their stage for free just because... ****ing hell. I really don't get it at all. Vinyl costs a **** load to manufacture, we're still bordering in the red on "Diversions" and trust me when I say we can sell more than *anyone* in genre. We do shit because we want to, not because it's sane.
****ing hell, kids. If you want to be left with super special forever princesses playing "Come Running" (and ever, amen) and genuinely still think THAT'S worth more money for their genuinely timid squeamish splurting than a verifiable scene legend back from the brink actively offering you an entire album of new shit just for Y'ALL then it's fairly clear where it's all gone wrong.
Just.. what? This scene is ****ed because over and over again it fails to reward talent, effort and results. This is a seemingly simple sideshow, but a very telling one IMO. The creeping death of a genre never felt so sexy, entitled and regal.
CDJay
arpz
Vladel, things that are niche tend to cost more money, that's the way of it. I think trying to give some value to the music is a very noble endeavour, HU adds worth by making physical items with nice art, that sets them apart from the rest, this is another way to achieve the same goal.
I'm not entirely sure why a kickstarter for a ten quid CD isn't preferable to him but I do like the idea of the exclusivity thing. He says he'd rather deal direct so I assume it's partly to do with dealing with 100 people is a lot easier than dealing with 1000.
I don't think we'll end up with the future you're predicting, I don't think there's that many artists that would even get the interest at this price point. Without this option, there is no album and Hamilton continues to pump out loads of quality DNB, this gives an opportunity to hear more from him.
arpz
Thumpa's 2 hour tribute in case you've forgotten what Ham does ;)
SparkzMusic
"time-proven-anthem-production-genre-defining engineer come back on a passion derived whim"
Where's the passion?
You should know more than most that a lot of artists gave up with core partly because they hated the new direction. Another reason I have heard from the people themselves is they don't mind the new scene but technology has surpassed them and they wouldn't know how to make the newer sound.
Ham has done nothing towards the scene for many years. Drum and bass is very different to hardcore so how do you know that this "10k" pot for 6 months of studio work wouldn't be 5 months of getting used to producing the newer hardcore sound and 1 month to get 10 tracks made? Why should the consumer pay someone else's bills while they get used to making a genre of music for a 1 off release?
It wouldn't be half as bad if there were some sort of clips of the style of production that will be done in the 10 tracks. Yet no, there's nothing at all. Surely 1 day in the studio putting down ideas and showcasing what to expect wouldn't break the bank?
Nope. There's nothing. Just "hello there, i'm Ham, I was a big name, you have my word for ?100 you get 10 awesome tracks".
"verifiable scene legend"..... of the past. Ghostbusters was a classic, legendary film of the past. Does that mean any potential remake was going to be just as legendary? Not at all. Same franchise, same genre (sort of), but it turns out it was for most, a load of shit.
"No respect for talent".... I could argue this all day. There is so much talent out there. More than ever. Much of this talent is wasted. Year after year I hear so many tracks by others, that exceed anything else in the scene. Yes the mastering might sound poor, the eq a bit of a mess but the whole ideas around it are phenomenal.
Do they get "respect for talent" ? For most, no. Do they give a shit? Again, for most, no. They work their day jobs and spend a lot, if not most of their free time in the bedroom studio making tracks for even just 1 or 2 people who stumble across it and give them a thumbs up or comment positively about what they have made. Some have had offers of label signings but have turned it down and chosen to just make free tracks for others to enjoy.
"entitled upstarts begrudging anyone with a fanbase" No names but a 1997 scene name i'm not going to mention has a fanbase. Does that mean all people in the fanbase back then are still part of that fanbase now? No way. Many have overplayed the tracks 10000's of times, moved on with the times and will only play the tracks now and then for old times sake. It's not "entitled upstarts" it's "entitled former big names expectations"
CDJay
That's terrifyingly lucid and sane. If I had seen anything that reasoned my marbles wouldn't have choked as much. Have a respectful nod; I'll respond after sleep.
CDJay
SparkzMusic
quote:Originally posted by CDJay:
That's terrifyingly lucid and sane. If I had seen anything that reasoned my marbles wouldn't have choked as much. Have a respectful nod; I'll respond after sleep.
I will. I hint the sarcasm there of course :). Enjoy the hot chocolate and cigar. I will check tomorrow after picking up my giro and topping up the meter.
Bring Me Round To Love
Really enjoyed the DJ Thumpa 'DJ HAM Tribute mix' apart from the last 15 minutes, namely the 2008/2010 tracks, they sounded watered down compared to the 00/05 output.
arpz
Sweet! It's happening
DJ Ham Well what can I say? We did it!!! 🙏🙌😱🙌🙏
In only three days, you guys have given me an incredible mandate to write this album!
What an amazing feeling, I honestly keep thinking its some kind of dream and I'll wake up any second!!!!! I am genuinely touched by the faith you have shown me. I have asked a lot from you, a high price for music you've not heard or that has even been written yet, from an artist that has not been active for over 6 years and all purely based on speculation. It's easy to see why some may think it's taking the piss!
But you have proved to me and the rest of the world that music still does have real, tangible value, not for everyone, but for those for whom their passion runs very deep. You have also proved to everyone that said it wouldn't, couldn't or shouldn't happen, that it can!
And wow! I think we just *may* have made history. This idea is not new for sure, but I'm certain it's not been done in this way before. Simply amazing!!!
Just a heads up though... Although I have now have 100 registered, if you missed it, it's still worth registering as its *possible* some will drop out and if they do you could take their spot. This will still be down on the same basis of first come first served so it's fair.
Please believe me though when I say it really is not about the money, that's just purely a practicality of life, like it or not. My motivation has always been for happiness. I'm rich enough already thanks as I have three beautiful children that are my most prized possessions, a house to live in, a car, an iPhone, a few home comforts and I still get to do what I enjoy which is being in my studio day in day out. That's all I need. I don't need much else, only to pay the same bills as everyone else has to!
You ask anyone who knows me, I'm one of the least materialistic people you could meet. I've turned down very well paid tours because I couldn't be away from my children at the time, some things are just more important. I really don't give a **** about money, it's just that the mortgage company, the utility companies and the tax man etc really do give a **** about money and they ask me to pay them and if I don't, they'll force me to pay them. This is no different from anyone else in this crazy world we live in.
All I have done is be completely honest and upfront about what is realistically involved for a project like this to go ahead. Do I like holding my hand out and asking for money, no! To be honest it's ****ing embarrassing!
If they turned off the internet tomorrow and we want back to the old ways where a producer could make an ok living without all this shit I'm all over that! Who's gonna pull the plug for me? 😂😂
But... I can tell you this... 100 people being prepared to dig very deep to support your project just because they want to hear your music? **** me, that's the best ****ing feeling in the world!! 👊😍😭😍👊
A very surprised, amazed & shocked, but also extremely pleased DJ Ham! x
Bring Me Round To Love
I bet he doesn't ask the dnb heads if they would like a 100 pound album
arpz
You're missing the point, read Luna-C's post again.
Samination
Well I made a post to that statement, that I wouldn't mind paying more for an album but tbh I would rarelly go past 30 quid, especially for only 10 tracks (I could easily use that money on hardewr to get japanese stuff and still get the same enjoyment of it).
Anyways, the other thing I said that I hope he understand that people missed him, no matter how much they intended to spend on him (it wasn't about the money right?).
But to be honest, it's like a worker on a company. He learns a new machine and leaves another for 5-6 years. Gets ask to run the old machine, and then asks for a raise. (The part about walking between machines has happened to me more than once at my work, but I didn't ask for a raise because I was still being paid for have learned the old machine!).
Cyrax
Yeah i signed up in the end, I'm hoping it will be awesome due to his track record and smashing DnB productions, if it's not i'll do 10 Freeform remixes with the Stems!
Captain Triceps
Fair play, he's done it. New hardcore from Ham. I'm not nearly as excited as I wish I could be, but maybe it will inspire him to chuck out the occasional hardcore track from time to time. I'm happy at least that it's happening, disappointed that I can't be a part of it, but that's my problem, not his or anyone else's.
The one thing I have to wryly smile at are those vehemently insisting that it is a completely fair price for a non physical album, and justifying spending that money with the reasons Ham himself has given for charging that much. You bought it because you wanted to and because you could, say no more. If you want it that badly or can afford to just spend the money like that, then yeah it's fair.
I spend more then I should on northern soul and reggae vinyl, usually just for one track, and even represses are overpriced, I don't think it's fair but I still pay for it. I play them quite a lot when DJing, not all of them every weekend, but they get used regularly so I can justify it. Would I play all the Ham tracks all the time, in every mix? No, not likely, no matter how good they are. That's why I didn't chuck a hundred notes his way. Fair play to anyone that does and gets a hundred pounds worth of use out of them.
I look forward, at least, to reading the feedback and hearing some clips or something.
arpz
If you look at it from his point of view, it's probably more like 'I'll spend 6 months making this so I want ten grand for my time'. Then it's just a case of choosing how many people vs how much money. If it was ?200 for 50 people, I probably wouldn't have gone for it, though I would've happily gone for it at any other price point/exclusivity factor going the other way. Perhaps this 100 people, 100 pounds is the point that he thought too many people wouldn't/couldn't pay.
It's definitely a high price but it is fair because things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. I can't wear a Rolex because I can't afford one but I don't think that's unfair, it's just the way it is.
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
I can't wear a Rolex because I can't afford one but I don't think that's unfair, it's just the way it is.
If you buy a Rolex and wanted to sell it ten years later, you could.
arpz
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
I can't wear a Rolex because I can't afford one but I don't think that's unfair, it's just the way it is.
If you buy a Rolex and wanted to sell it ten years later, you could.
Well...well.... nah I've got nothing :)
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
I can't wear a Rolex because I can't afford one but I don't think that's unfair, it's just the way it is.
If you buy a Rolex and wanted to sell it ten years later, you could.
Well...well.... nah I've got nothing :)
I keep seeing people comparing it to buying vinyl back in the day (usually for exaggerated prices). You simply can't compare the two. I could sell all my hardcore vinyl, much of it over 20 years old, granted it might or might not sell for much but I'd still get a few quid. I couldn't sell MP3s in twenty years, no matter how rare or how expensive they were.
Of course bringing this release on any kind of physical format has its costs, and sort of defeats the purpose. Maybe, somehow, he will find a way to eventually (and fairly) get the tracks out to the masses. I don't know how.
I do wish Ham every success with this, and I hope the quality of the music justifies the costs for those who forked out for it!
Bring Me Round To Love
Ham on feckbook saying its not about the money, come on ;)
Vladel
He says it's not about the money and then lists a load of reasons why it's about the money.
He could have done 300 for 30 quid etc, he could have done alot of things and i have to say i'm disappointed at how short sighted people have been by paying this ransom because if other producers start charging this much, won't we all be upset? There's been a lot of comments on here about piracy and while i don't hope it gets shared because i wouldn't download it should such a thing happen asi'm against piracy, but i do hope it turns out to be a flop. People can say that is negative but a project like this being sucessful is like i said earlier a dangerous possibility by making the music a premium service. The worst case scenario for me is a bunch of great tracks floating around 100 people never to be owned by anyone else. There is a deep sadness in that akin to the darwin toytown remix, ie to know it exists and never have a chance to have it.
I understand the man has got to make his money despite saying it is not about money if it wasn't he could do it for free to say thankyou to all the people that have supported in during his time in hardcore and beyond but this is clearly about money.
Ham is right that it hasn't been done before and i pray it doesn't happen again and for that i have to hope this falls on its arse for the good of the scene.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
"time-proven-anthem-production-genre-defining engineer come back on a passion derived whim"
Where's the passion?
You should know more than most that a lot of artists gave up with core partly because they hated the new direction. Another reason I have heard from the people themselves is they don't mind the new scene but technology has surpassed them and they wouldn't know how to make the newer sound.
Ham has done nothing towards the scene for many years. Drum and bass is very different to hardcore so how do you know that this "10k" pot for 6 months of studio work wouldn't be 5 months of getting used to producing the newer hardcore sound and 1 month to get 10 tracks made? Why should the consumer pay someone else's bills while they get used to making a genre of music for a 1 off release?
It wouldn't be half as bad if there were some sort of clips of the style of production that will be done in the 10 tracks. Yet no, there's nothing at all. Surely 1 day in the studio putting down ideas and showcasing what to expect wouldn't break the bank?
Nope. There's nothing. Just "hello there, i'm Ham, I was a big name, you have my word for ?100 you get 10 awesome tracks".
"verifiable scene legend"..... of the past. Ghostbusters was a classic, legendary film of the past. Does that mean any potential remake was going to be just as legendary? Not at all. Same franchise, same genre (sort of), but it turns out it was for most, a load of shit.
"No respect for talent".... I could argue this all day. There is so much talent out there. More than ever. Much of this talent is wasted. Year after year I hear so many tracks by others, that exceed anything else in the scene. Yes the mastering might sound poor, the eq a bit of a mess but the whole ideas around it are phenomenal.
Do they get "respect for talent" ? For most, no. Do they give a shit? Again, for most, no. They work their day jobs and spend a lot, if not most of their free time in the bedroom studio making tracks for even just 1 or 2 people who stumble across it and give them a thumbs up or comment positively about what they have made. Some have had offers of label signings but have turned it down and chosen to just make free tracks for others to enjoy.
"entitled upstarts begrudging anyone with a fanbase" No names but a 1997 scene name i'm not going to mention has a fanbase. Does that mean all people in the fanbase back then are still part of that fanbase now? No way. Many have overplayed the tracks 10000's of times, moved on with the times and will only play the tracks now and then for old times sake. It's not "entitled upstarts" it's "entitled former big names expectations"
"time-proven-anthem-production-genre-defining engineer come back on a passion derived whim"
"Where's the passion? "
100% this.
This aint Goldilocks; is the porridge hot or cold!!
Passion is passion... not inspired by dollars.... and certainly not a whim....
all said; i have high hopes for everyone that pitched.
Samination
not a whim? He ****ing tested to see if people really wanted to fork out money for him to make hardcore again? I'm not saying that he shouldn't get paid, but this is testing the fanbase. Some liked it, some didn't, but it still was on a whim.
Impulse_Response
As much as I'd like to have the album, I can't bring myself to drop 100 pounds on 10 tracks unless I can hear previews. It's too much of a gamble when I could end up not liking any of them. It might be hypocritical of me to say this, though, considering how much I spent on Blu The Roof.
I also can't stand the artificial scarcity. I could see a limited run if it were a physical product, because it would take time and money to repress if necessary, but I can't see it for digital files.
Off topic, I don't understand why people seem to be so obsessed with the idea of a vinyl release. I could see it if it included wav downloads, but otherwise why pay so much for a format that delivers inferior sound quality and will eventually be worn out after too many plays?
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
As much as I'd like to have the album, I can't bring myself to drop 100 pounds on 10 tracks unless I can hear previews. It's too much of a gamble when I could end up not liking any of them. It might be hypocritical of me to say this, though, considering how much I spent on Blu The Roof.
I also can't stand the artificial scarcity. I could see a limited run if it were a physical product, because it would take time and money to repress if necessary, but I can't see it for digital files.
Off topic, I don't understand why people seem to be so obsessed with the idea of a vinyl release. I could see it if it included wav downloads, but otherwise why pay so much for a format that delivers inferior sound quality and will eventually be worn out after too many plays?
For the same reason they say music is devalued. "That's just how it used to work in ages bygone"
vladel: I don't think it will ever catch on. Even if Darren Styles or Gammer did it, considering the demographic of Hardcore. Or do rich people secretly dig Hardcore?
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
Off topic, I don't understand why people seem to be so obsessed with the idea of a vinyl release. I could see it if it included wav downloads, but otherwise why pay so much for a format that delivers inferior sound quality and will eventually be worn out after too many plays?
Because you're actually getting something physical. Thing is, not everyone even has a turntable, and a lot of DJs now just don't play vinyl. I have a set of decks and even I rarely, if ever, buy new releases on vinyl (and I bloody love playing records!). It would just alienate a different set of people to have a vinyl only release. CD would have been a good idea but that costs money too.
Vinyl being worn out after too many plays really is not an issue though. You'd have to play it a daft amount of times.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
Vinyl being worn out after too many plays really is not an issue though. You'd have to play it a daft amount of times.
Well, it only requires a bad needle setting doesnt it? :P
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
Vinyl being worn out after too many plays really is not an issue though. You'd have to play it a daft amount of times.
Well, it only requires a bad needle setting doesnt it? :P
Then that's their own fault.
DjZelous
Yea for vinyl to get worn you REALLY gotta beat it up quite a bit and vinyl has too have quality atleast as good as a wav file
ViolonC
I guess a vinyl wouldn't be so damn loud.
Impulse_Response
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
I guess a vinyl wouldn't be so damn loud.
For the amount of money he is asking, he could consider going a bit beyond and including unmastered files as well as mastered. It shouldn't be out of the question if he is including stems already. I would be a happy man if I could buy unmastered versions of everything from Hardcore Underground, Trackitdown, Bandamp, and all the other places.
DJ_FunDaBounce
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
I guess a vinyl wouldn't be so damn loud.
For the amount of money he is asking, he could consider going a bit beyond and including unmastered files as well as mastered. It shouldn't be out of the question if he is including stems already. I would be a happy man if I could buy unmastered versions of everything from Hardcore Underground, Trackitdown, Bandamp, and all the other places.
Why?
Mastering isn't always about making it loud. It doesnt even have to involve that in order to enhance a track.
Impulse_Response
quote:Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce:
Why?
Mastering isn't always about making it loud. It doesnt even have to involve that in order to enhance a track.
How many hardcore tracks (excluding really old stuff, perhaps) can you name that aren't squashed? The simple truth is that in today's music world, including electronic stuff, mastering is synonymous with loud. If someone doesn't do that then good for them, but in almost every case, mastering means loud. I see this on pro releases, amateur releases (e.g. soundcloud and bandcamp), and almost all doujin stuff. I will be very surprised if this album turns out to not be a loudness war casualty, if I even get to hear it because of the exclusivity.
Mastering may in reality be about using SUBTLE adjustments for perfection, but that doesn't matter if no one does that. Also, people can easily get a free DAW and do a little bit of simple EQ and compression if they want to adjust for a particular sound. As I said, he is already offering to provide the stems for complete remixing, so it seems like he is trying to allow room for creative freedom. Providing an unmastered option would provide another avenue.
Cyrax
With Ham doing so much DnB and how good he is at production, he or whoever he gets to do the masters will obviously be sick, I would not want unmastered WAVS in this case.
Samination
I highly doubt it will be St.Anger Loud :P
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
I highly doubt it will be St.Anger Loud :P
the lord thanks me for stopping listening to metallica after master of puppets.
DJ_FunDaBounce
quote:Originally posted by Advather:
quote:Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce:
Why?
Mastering isn't always about making it loud. It doesnt even have to involve that in order to enhance a track.
How many hardcore tracks (excluding really old stuff, perhaps) can you name that aren't squashed? The simple truth is that in today's music world, including electronic stuff, mastering is synonymous with loud. If someone doesn't do that then good for them, but in almost every case, mastering means loud. I see this on pro releases, amateur releases (e.g. soundcloud and bandcamp), and almost all doujin stuff. I will be very surprised if this album turns out to not be a loudness war casualty, if I even get to hear it because of the exclusivity.
Mastering may in reality be about using SUBTLE adjustments for perfection, but that doesn't matter if no one does that. Also, people can easily get a free DAW and do a little bit of simple EQ and compression if they want to adjust for a particular sound. As I said, he is already offering to provide the stems for complete remixing, so it seems like he is trying to allow room for creative freedom. Providing an unmastered option would provide another avenue.
OK. I see where you're coming from. and I agree to an extent. The thing is that imo, if a track is properly Mastered, that additional polish ends up playing a big role on how the song will be remembered, no matter what the genre.
I think calling it "loudness maximizing" would be more appropiate a term for what you describe most releases are getting done to them.
ArdcorePower
I'll start off by saying the obvious DJ Ham is an absolute legend one of my favourite oldskool hardcore producers, I do like some of his productions post 96, but by then I wasn't really into what he was making around that period(well, lots of it anyways) pretty much full fledged into the harder beats by that period.
So, if this was like happy breakbeat/94-96 4 beat hardcore I would be all over it. I don't like lots of the newer stuff enough to fork out that much money to maybe only like two tracks, of course it would be like a collectors type thing and something special for those, but it's also digital and there could be that chance someone might leak it.. but thinking about it.. it's expensive! and the person would be an absolute idiot to do so, because those people wouldn't do the same for them that's for sure... so if you want to give your money away just send me a PM and I can give you my Pay Pal details :P haha anywho..
For the ones who like all the sounds he's put out then I guess it'll be worth it to you's, it's not something I'm willing to shell out 200 dollars for and what if I'm not digging any of the tracks at all? (yeah 100 pounds would be 200 my money)
I can totally see how it would be good for some, but I can see both sides, either way I got no issues with Ham doing this, I just don't see myself doing that. So, to the ones who are I hope it's wicked for yas... it'll be something special not too many others have. Hopefully nobody leaks it too (you never know, after all it's the internet we're talkin about here lol)
sebastianNL
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
vladel: I don't think it will ever catch on. Even if Darren Styles or Gammer did it, considering the demographic of Hardcore. Or do rich people secretly dig Hardcore?
There is a difference here compared to Gammer/Styles doing the same, and that is Ham was not active in hardcore anymore. Although I find it quite expensive, it was an easy decision: no Ham tracks or expensive tracks, so I am in :). If Sy & Unknown would offer something like this I would easily pay even more!
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by sebastianNL:
If Sy & Unknown would offer something like this I would easily pay even more!
Yeah, you'd probably need more then just money to make this happen.
sebastianNL
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
quote:Originally posted by sebastianNL:
If Sy & Unknown would offer something like this I would easily pay even more!
Yeah, you'd probably need more then just money to make this happen.
I'm afraid so :(
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by sebastianNL:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
vladel: I don't think it will ever catch on. Even if Darren Styles or Gammer did it, considering the demographic of Hardcore. Or do rich people secretly dig Hardcore?
There is a difference here compared to Gammer/Styles doing the same, and that is Ham was not active in hardcore anymore. Although I find it quite expensive, it was an easy decision: no Ham tracks or expensive tracks, so I am in :). If Sy & Unknown would offer something like this I would easily pay even more!
****k i wish ! want sy & unknown so bad :'(
DjZelous
I wish for sy & unknown to get back together, but after all that shit happened, who knows if they even talk anymore
Alexbturbo
To put the pricing structure of Ham's TEN single tracks in DIGITAL ONLY format into some kind of perspective.
Being a fan of classic hard house from back in the day, when i first started getting into music in the mid '90's in my teens, I noticed that today Tidy Trax released details / pre order of their limited edition Hard Drive project that features every single release on their label - this includes ALL their sub labels and also all the mix albums released over the years.
There are 3 options with limited quantities (circa 200 iirc):
MP3 version ?199 pre order ?249 full release (if not sold out)
WAV version ?249 pre order ?299 full release (if not sold out)
Rekordbox ?299 pre order ?349 full release (if not sold out)
So, for the MP3 option, ?200 buys you the entire catalogue of the label supplied on a physical product. Compare that to just 10 digital only tracks. It's far better value for money compared to what Ham offered.
I really cant see why Ham couldn't offer some form of physical product (i.e USB drive or packaged CD) considering the total ??? involved in what he's offered.
martinj1985
shhhh he needs to pay his bills!
Mansy
quote:Originally posted by martinj1985:
shhhh he needs to pay his bills!
You really hate this dont you martin ;)
Triquatra
quote:Originally posted by Alexbturbo:
To put the pricing structure of Ham's TEN single tracks in DIGITAL ONLY format into some kind of perspective.
Being a fan of classic hard house from back in the day, when i first started getting into music in the mid '90's in my teens, I noticed that today Tidy Trax released details / pre order of their limited edition Hard Drive project that features every single release on their label - this includes ALL their sub labels and also all the mix albums released over the years.
There are 3 options with limited quantities (circa 200 iirc):
MP3 version ?199 pre order ?249 full release (if not sold out)
WAV version ?249 pre order ?299 full release (if not sold out)
Rekordbox ?299 pre order ?349 full release (if not sold out)
hoooooly shit!
Samination
10 new tracks, never been seen/released before, compared to 60+ tracks that they already have released, made their money off? A real good comparison that... and Im on the "hate dj ham" side of the arguement :P
djDMS
Despite my 'opposition' to the idea, I would still have been tempted if I had that kind of money lying around.
Still think there should be more for the money but I can't criticise anybody who is willing to pay.
When the tracks do surface, I know I'll either be saying 'ha, I knew it was a bad idea', or 'what a Wanker, I knew I should have bought them'
Cyrax
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
Despite my 'opposition' to the idea, I would still have been tempted if I had that kind of money lying around.
Still think there should be more for the money but I can't criticise anybody who is willing to pay.
When the tracks do surface, I know I'll either be saying 'ha, I knew it was a bad idea', or 'what a Wanker, I knew I should have bought them'
You can buy them off me if you change your mind for ?15.99 ;)
I really hope he brings home the bacon though!
Alexbturbo
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
10 new tracks, never been seen/released before, compared to 60+ tracks that they already have released, made their money off? A real good comparison that... and Im on the "hate dj ham" side of the arguement :P
I'd say it's a perfectly valid comparison considering what was offered. For ?100 more than Ham charges for 10 tracks you get an entire label catalogue on a physical product. Judging by the way they've been selling it would appear a lot of people want to fill gaps in the back catalogue, replace vinyl rips, etc.
And Tidy Trax have been releasing on vinyl & digital for 21 years later this year - that's far more than just 60 odd releases.
To put it into perspective. If you were to buy what is currently available digitally from Tidy Trax & it's sub labels in digital format it would cost approx. gbp 3900 to do so. Instead it can be purchased on a custom hard drive for between 200-300. That is a hell of a lot on offer for the money, compared to 10 as yet unmade digital only tracks for ?100 with no guarantee they'll be any good.
My point is what you get vs value for money in both situations. Ham's option does not seem like good value for money considering he's not even delivering a physical product.
Cyrax
just hope he doesn't make a pig's ear of it
Bring Me Round To Love
Ham is On A Roll with this one, might need a little chesse
Vladel
Let's turn this on its head and ask the question, how much would you pay? (If not the full ?100 or perhaps limited run). I think ?30 if I could hear previews and liked a few of them would have been my limit.
GrahamC
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
Let's turn this on its head and ask the question, how much would you pay? (If not the full ?100 or perhaps limited run). I think ?30 if I could hear previews and liked a few of them would have been my limit.
Thats an interesting question...
I paid HU ?25 a couple of years back for a brand new HU4, would probably not go higher than that.
I don't get the whole exclusivity thing (I know some folks do) but for me, if I was selling something I would sell it to as many people as I could. In this case if I got to my 100x100 and there was still demand, use the 100x100 as a threshold to start but keep selling more, even at the same 100 a pop, if he can, why not? I never understood why you wouldn't just keep going, especially here where there is no manufacturing cost, just some bandwidth.
ArdcorePower
I wish I had the cash for the Tidy collection. I would have done that without thinking twice about it.
Elliott
I know I'm late to the party but whatever.
Just to put this in perspective and to play devil's advocate, Ham could earn the ?10k in a weekend in the drum & bass scene now. Like it or not, his market value has increased HUGELY since he blew up in dnb. Anyone in drums signed to RAM is earning more than anyone in the hardcore scene, Gammer and Styles included. His booking fee for an hour is probably more than anyone in hardcore. Long story short: he's worth at least an order of magnitude more since he crossed over to drums.
From a purely financial perspective, hardcore is not worth his time. Realistically, he was probably making scraps in hardcore. Look at how HU struggle. Ham was very much in that same category. At the end of his hardcore career, I doubt his NG/BB tracks were selling more than a few hundred copies with the scene on its knees and filesharing rampant. He was probably personally making something like ?500 on each track (notice how he didn't bother releasing "Anything For You" before he left even though he'd obviously already finished it). Most people in the scene rely on bookings but Ham was always criminally underrated and underappreciated so I doubt he was making bank through that route either.
Looking at it objectively, ?10k compared to the time it would take him to make 10 good tracks, especially when he seems to be a perfectionist, is actually a massive undervaluation of his time now. I guess we've just got to accept that. He was too good for hardcore when he was producing it and now he's too valuable for hardcore as well.
Having said all that, I have to also say that it saddens me. Ham is probably in my all-time top 3 and the idea of his returning to hardcore seemed like nothing more than my wildest wet dream. Now that it's actually happening, there's a bitter note to it. He always struck me as someone who loved the genre and the music; not the kind to go for a cynical cash-grab. If anything, I thought he might chuck out the occasional free hardcore track that he made just for nostalgic reasons or whatever. But, instead, he goes for this. From a financial perspective, yeah, I understand where he's coming from but I guess I expected something different.
In my opinion, the exclusivity angle is completely misguided. Make no mistake, these tracks will leak and everyone who paid under the false guise of exclusivity will have been ripped off. This project is crying out for crowdfunding. Just put up a Kickstarter, set the target at ?10k, set the album contribution at ?25 or something and any shortfall can be made up by the slightly wealthier people who want to guarantee the success of the project in return for some kind of perk. Ham's going about this completely the wrong way.
I really don't know how to feel about this. When I saw the topic title, my heart almost skipped a beat. Then I read it and I'm completely ambivalent. The worst part is that I can't afford it. I love Ham to the extent that I would pay the ?100 if I had it but following years of debilitating illness, I simply don't. The way he conducted this disappointed me; the fact that I can't afford it is devastating.
EDIT: Like seriously, I genuinely feel shitty now. My life has been destroyed through illness and music is one of the only things I still have to enjoy and look forward to. ****.
Samination
Sadly, I believe he didnt do the fundraising route because he's trying to evade having to pay much for managing it. Sites like Kickstarter takes a share of any successfully crowdfunded projects I believe.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
Sadly, I believe he didnt do the fundraising route because he's trying to evade having to pay much for managing it. Sites like Kickstarter takes a share of any successfully crowdfunded projects I believe.
That sucks. :(
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
I really don't know how to feel about this. When I saw the topic title, my heart almost skipped a beat. Then I read it and I'm completely ambivalent. The worst part is that I can't afford it. I love Ham to the extent that I would pay the ?100 if I had it but following years of debilitating illness, I simply don't. The way he conducted this disappointed me; the fact that I can't afford it is devastating.
What's the situation then, lads? Has anyone here bought in? Is Ham still taking interest from people? Can anyone here go 50/50 with me? (which Ham himself said he doesn't mind too much and obviously I'm in dire straits). Can we get some kind of thing going? Can someone please help me out? I need these tracks damnit. I don't know if I'm even going to be alive in 2 years time and there's no way I'm missing out on anything. :@
Bring Me Round To Love
Drums? Is that what they call DnB these days, maybe Ham was a bit bored making it and now wants to make an expensive Hardcore Album instead and get his creative juices flowing.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
What's the situation then, lads? Has anyone here bought in? Is Ham still taking interest from people? Can anyone here go 50/50 with me? (which Ham himself said he doesn't mind too much and obviously I'm in dire straits). Can we get some kind of thing going? Can someone please help me out? I need these tracks damnit. I don't know if I'm even going to be alive in 2 years time and there's no way I'm missing out on anything. :@
Thumpa's supposedly doing it in 3rds, maybe he'll see this thread?
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
What's the situation then, lads? Has anyone here bought in? Is Ham still taking interest from people? Can anyone here go 50/50 with me? (which Ham himself said he doesn't mind too much and obviously I'm in dire straits). Can we get some kind of thing going? Can someone please help me out? I need these tracks damnit. I don't know if I'm even going to be alive in 2 years time and there's no way I'm missing out on anything. :@
Thumpa's supposedly doing it in 3rds, maybe he'll see this thread?
Nice one. Maybe I'll shoot him a PM. :)
Captain Triceps
If not, I'll chuck in with a few others!
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
If not, I'll chuck in with a few others!
Good man. I'm hopeful we'll be able to sort something out.
I really don't think that Ham will have a problem with small groups pooling. I think it's mostly the leaking thing he cares about but I know none of us would do that so I think we're safe to have a little HH.com whip-round.
People on this forum are the same people who actually paid for his music when he was actively producing in the first place. I feel like we deserve to be part of his swan song (which, realistically, this probably is, unless he's suddenly found some huge love of producing hardcore again). I know I personally spent over ?100 on NG/BB digis alone back in the day. I was a student at the time and relative to what I had coming in, I was easily spending half of it on hardcore.
Captain Triceps
Same as, not so much now but back in the day half of my money was spent on this music, I don't want to miss out and he clearly doesn't mind us doing this. He'll get his ten large either way and everybody's happy.
Cyrax
Guys, I'm already signed up with deposit, if someone wants to pay me ?50.00 and get them when they're done I don't mind :)
Triceps/Elliot? ?33.33 each?
Samination
25 if I spoon/fork/knife in?
Captain Triceps
Yeah, I'll do 25 notes if Sami is in as well, how many you willing to let in on this? I'm not a complete tight arse, I'm just asking :)
Cyrax
You and Sam can both do ?33.3333333333333333
And then we'll call it a day
Captain Triceps
I'd be up for it, no Elliott though?
Cyrax
Whoever wants in really, cheaper to split with 3, don't know if Sam is serious, see what Elliot thinks and if he's game you and him sort me ?33.33 and it's a deal, I was reluctant to spend ?100.00 on this to be honest but sometimes I get impulsive online and sign up to things.
Samination
well, 33.33 quid for me is abit to much for an album that I will probably not like that much... and I have no problems spending 60 quid for a video game soundtrack (but atleast I know what I get, and the NIER soundtrack was WELL worth it!).
PS. I don't mind paying more than 25 to you if you (and ultimately Ham) accepts it, just not 33 :P
I don't know how long Ham extended the payment, but are you going to ILHB, maybe we can talk more on friday?
arpz
Just to make you all feel really good about it -
DJ Ham For anyone thinking about going in with others: Although I'm allowing this, I'm not actively encouraging it. Just to be clear, I am still only sending one album to one person, the person who registered. Any perks associated with being the person who registered remains with only that person. If you are sharing the tracks privately with others who have split the cost with you, then that process is down to you.
Like ? Reply ? 2 ? Yesterday at 09:51
(I'm in solo, maybe you guys can ask for +1 when there's the free album launch event at Hams house or something :P)
Cyrax
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
Just to make you all feel really good about it -
DJ Ham For anyone thinking about going in with others: Although I'm allowing this, I'm not actively encouraging it. Just to be clear, I am still only sending one album to one person, the person who registered. Any perks associated with being the person who registered remains with only that person. If you are sharing the tracks privately with others who have split the cost with you, then that process is down to you.
Like ? Reply ? 2 ? Yesterday at 09:51
(I'm in solo, maybe you guys can ask for +1 when there's the free album launch event at Hams house or something :P)
I see it 2 ways :
1. I save some money on an album that I was going to get anyway and can remix the stems (you know there will be cracking vocal track in there somewhere)
2. Triceps and Elliot get the album aswell after missing deadline,
not fussed about going round Ham's gaff just wanted some new exclusive music in my life.
I'm not selling this album to anyone after it's released as it's not mine to sell, just going to have a gentlemans agreement in place between the people that go in, I won't be sharing this album either.
Yes Sam I'll be at ILHB
Captain Triceps
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
Just to make you all feel really good about it -
DJ Ham For anyone thinking about going in with others: Although I'm allowing this, I'm not actively encouraging it. Just to be clear, I am still only sending one album to one person, the person who registered. Any perks associated with being the person who registered remains with only that person. If you are sharing the tracks privately with others who have split the cost with you, then that process is down to you.
Like ? Reply ? 2 ? Yesterday at 09:51
(I'm in solo, maybe you guys can ask for +1 when there's the free album launch event at Hams house or something :P)
I see it 2 ways :
1. I save some money on an album that I was going to get anyway and can remix the stems (you know there will be cracking vocal track in there somewhere)
2. Triceps and Elliot get the album aswell after missing deadline,
not fussed about going round Ham's gaff just wanted some new exclusive music in my life.
I'm not selling this album to anyone after it's released as it's not mine to sell, just going to have a gentlemans agreement in place between the people that go in, I won't be sharing this album either.
Yes Sam I'll be at ILHB
It probably goes without saying but you'll be chucking us all the stems and everything as well, yes?
Mickey Init
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
It probably goes without saying but you'll be chucking us all the stems and everything as well, yes?
Cyrax
quote:Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
Just to make you all feel really good about it -
DJ Ham For anyone thinking about going in with others: Although I'm allowing this, I'm not actively encouraging it. Just to be clear, I am still only sending one album to one person, the person who registered. Any perks associated with being the person who registered remains with only that person. If you are sharing the tracks privately with others who have split the cost with you, then that process is down to you.
Like ? Reply ? 2 ? Yesterday at 09:51
(I'm in solo, maybe you guys can ask for +1 when there's the free album launch event at Hams house or something :P)
I see it 2 ways :
1. I save some money on an album that I was going to get anyway and can remix the stems (you know there will be cracking vocal track in there somewhere)
2. Triceps and Elliot get the album aswell after missing deadline,
not fussed about going round Ham's gaff just wanted some new exclusive music in my life.
I'm not selling this album to anyone after it's released as it's not mine to sell, just going to have a gentlemans agreement in place between the people that go in, I won't be sharing this album either.
Yes Sam I'll be at ILHB
It probably goes without saying but you'll be chucking us all the stems and everything as well, yes?
Yeah man of course, i'll be asking for all the stems, drop me a PM if needed :)
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Cyrax:
You and Sam can both do ?33.3333333333333333
And then we'll call it a day
Let's just do this 4 ways. 4 people, ?25 each seems fair considering what the project is. Ham might be a legend and one of my all-time favourite producers but at the end of the day, we're paying 25 notes for an album of 10 tracks that we've never even heard before. Plus ?25 is an outlay I can absorb without running out of money for medication or anything essential.
I actually think the house party sounds great (though I hadn't even heard about this until now) but I'm too ill to go raving anyway.
Edit: I'm assuming the 4 of us will be Cyrax, Triceps, Sam and me.
Samination
Well I dont know if there's an easy system in the UK for sending money between accounts. If I do chip in it might be easier to just give cyrax the money in person
Mickey Init
What is this thing about Ham's house?
I think 25 each is win-win all round.
Vladel
you can use paypal
arpz
haha sorry, there hasn't been any talk of going round his house for a mix or anything like that... I was just trying to claw back something, buyers remorse or whatever they call it :D
I'm happy you're all getting on board, just hope it keeps a little of its exclusivity :)
Mickey Init
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
haha sorry, there hasn't been any talk of going round his house for a mix or anything like that... I was just trying to claw back something, buyers remorse or whatever they call it :D
I'm happy you're all getting on board, just hope it keeps a little of its exclusivity :)
Haha. I thought you were joking but when people kept mentioning it I thought 'have I missed something'! Haha, would be quality if he got the champers and canapes out for the 100 registered buyers.
Elliott
Right, lads. I think me and Triceps are completely serious about this and it seems like Sam is too so I think we're gonna form our own clique with Cyrax as leader. If Sam's not down, I'm happy for another old and trustworthy member to get in but it's all down to Cyrax. I've decided that 4/?25 seems like the perfect balance between making the cost reasonable and not taking the piss. And then there's simple maths: past 4 people, you really hit the point of diminishing returns hard.
I still think the probability of the tracks leaking is overwhelming but it won't be from anyone on here and I still want to obtain these as legitimately as possible.
Cyrax, Triceps, Sam: post to confirm that you're all happy with this arrangement (i.e. advancing Cyrax ?25 each). I can use Paypal or any method you like. Just PM me the details mate. And thanks for this. :)
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
haha sorry, there hasn't been any talk of going round his house for a mix or anything like that... I was just trying to claw back something, buyers remorse or whatever they call it :D
I'm happy you're all getting on board, just hope it keeps a little of its exclusivity :)
Sneaky cnut. It seemed semi-believable.
To be fair, I probably wouldn't want 100 people round my drum trashing the place either. My parents have a pretty middle class house and the biggest party I ever held there was about 50 people and the place got completely de-****ing-stroyed. I'm talking holes in the walls and shit. None of it was intentional either. Turns out you just can't fit 50 drunk people into a semi.
My parents found me out when I tried to use a Justin Bieber poster to cover up the damage.
EDIT: inb4 some kind of gay joke
arpz
Someone did suggest an album party for people that bought in, that's why I had the idea, combined with his mention of 'perks' but I think it's probably an unlikely.
However, since this other post hasn't been brought up on this thread, what tune do you think he might mean?
"Hey! Just been going through all the deposits and nearly there... I'm going to extend the deadline a bit as I'm not sure everyone has received the deposit email... please make sure you check your spam folders! Also, when all is done to thank everyone for their support, I will be sending a free track to all those who have registered. It's an older track of mine which never came out and I'm sure some of you will know from the compilation it featured on and I've had a lot of people asking me for it"
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
Someone did suggest an album party for people that bought in, that's why I had the idea, combined with his mention of 'perks' but I think it's probably an unlikely.
However, since this other post hasn't been brought up on this thread, what tune do you think he might mean?
"Hey! Just been going through all the deposits and nearly there... I'm going to extend the deadline a bit as I'm not sure everyone has received the deposit email... please make sure you check your spam folders! Also, when all is done to thank everyone for their support, I will be sending a free track to all those who have registered. It's an older track of mine which never came out and I'm sure some of you will know from the compilation it featured on and I've had a lot of people asking me for it"
I wonder what track it is? I can think of a few on mid-'00s compilations that, afaik, were never released.
How exciting. :D
The drunken scotsman
I'm going to guess it's the 2011 styles & breeze remix of 24/7.
Mickey Init
Anything For You?
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
I'm going to guess it's the 2011 styles & breeze remix of 24/7.
Oh please god no.
I think Mickey nailed it. It's gotta be Anything For You.
I could never understand why he didn't just chuck it out on NG/BB before he left the scene. I guess by that point the money he was making from producing hardcore was so little that it was literally not worth his time to even upload it.
Cyrax
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
Right, lads. I think me and Triceps are completely serious about this and it seems like Sam is too so I think we're gonna form our own clique with Cyrax as leader. If Sam's not down, I'm happy for another old and trustworthy member to get in but it's all down to Cyrax. I've decided that 4/?25 seems like the perfect balance between making the cost reasonable and not taking the piss. And then there's simple maths: past 4 people, you really hit the point of diminishing returns hard.
I still think the probability of the tracks leaking is overwhelming but it won't be from anyone on here and I still want to obtain these as legitimately as possible.
Cyrax, Triceps, Sam: post to confirm that you're all happy with this arrangement (i.e. advancing Cyrax ?25 each). I can use Paypal or any method you like. Just PM me the details mate. And thanks for this. :)
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
haha sorry, there hasn't been any talk of going round his house for a mix or anything like that... I was just trying to claw back something, buyers remorse or whatever they call it :D
I'm happy you're all getting on board, just hope it keeps a little of its exclusivity :)
Sneaky cnut. It seemed semi-believable.
To be fair, I probably wouldn't want 100 people round my drum trashing the place either. My parents have a pretty middle class house and the biggest party I ever held there was about 50 people and the place got completely de-****ing-stroyed. I'm talking holes in the walls and shit. None of it was intentional either. Turns out you just can't fit 50 drunk people into a semi.
My parents found me out when I tried to use a Justin Bieber poster to cover up the damage.
EDIT: inb4 some kind of gay joke
Yeah that's fine mate, ?25.00 each Sam, triceps and yourself, we'll communicate by PM from now on will be easier :)
GrahamC
Anybody else up for a 4-way purchase? I could manage it at that price :)
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
I don't like paying ?10 for ten tracks unless I like at least half of them never mind 100 quid
This. Imagine paying ?100 for a few tracks that turned out to be crap in your opinion. Ham was involved in many good tracks over the years, but I don't agree with this tactic. Good luck to him if it works, I'm pretty sceptical it will tbh, but what do I know.
In the words of fellow Scot Duncan Bannantyne "I'm out".
Just to show myself up as a proper arsehole....
Since this post a while ago I have signed up to receive these tracks 😂😂. More than happy to share the cost and of course the tracks when they arrive. So Graham C we may have something here...
GrahamC
Sweet, keep me posted :)
djDMS
I might be interested ;-)
The drunken scotsman
No problem guys. If anyone else wants to jump on then I'll set a maximum of 4 same as before.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
I don't like paying ?10 for ten tracks unless I like at least half of them never mind 100 quid
This. Imagine paying ?100 for a few tracks that turned out to be crap in your opinion. Ham was involved in many good tracks over the years, but I don't agree with this tactic. Good luck to him if it works, I'm pretty sceptical it will tbh, but what do I know.
In the words of fellow Scot Duncan Bannantyne "I'm out".
Just to show myself up as a proper arsehole....
Since this post a while ago I have signed up to receive these tracks 😂😂. More than happy to share the cost and of course the tracks when they arrive. So Graham C we may have something here...
Congrats on your hypocritical 999th post mate!
Better put more effort into the next one.
Edit: You ****ed it.
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
I don't like paying ?10 for ten tracks unless I like at least half of them never mind 100 quid
This. Imagine paying ?100 for a few tracks that turned out to be crap in your opinion. Ham was involved in many good tracks over the years, but I don't agree with this tactic. Good luck to him if it works, I'm pretty sceptical it will tbh, but what do I know.
In the words of fellow Scot Duncan Bannantyne "I'm out".
Just to show myself up as a proper arsehole....
Since this post a while ago I have signed up to receive these tracks 😂😂. More than happy to share the cost and of course the tracks when they arrive. So Graham C we may have something here...
Congrats on your hypocritical 999th post mate!
Better put more effort into the next one.
Edit: You ****ed it.
Haha didn't realise I'd hit that milestone. 1000 posts of utter garbage, here's to the next 1000.
djDMS
Entertaining garbage though!
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
Entertaining garbage though!
Yep. Keep it up!
I don't want to be trapped on this island with a bunch of people who think Gammer is still good.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
Entertaining garbage though!
Yep. Keep it up!
I don't want to be trapped on this island with a bunch of people who think Gammer is still good.
Nobody thinks that; except abunch of kids that hated all techno when i was in high school; cuz they were gangsta rappa kids; but now gammer makes gangsta trapa techno!
i check his page here and there to throw an insult and laugh my ass off.
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
Entertaining garbage though!
Yep. Keep it up!
I don't want to be trapped on this island with a bunch of people who think Gammer is still good.
Haha thanks guys.
Btw GrahamC and DMS, I have a mate who is willing to chip in for the tracks as well. So if you're both up for it, then ?25 each?
GrahamC
Count me in :)
PM me payment details when you are ready.
djDMS
Yep, I'm up for that mate :-)
Craigavon raver
quote:Originally posted by Bring Me Round To Love:
You don't need that much money, just make a CD album
Hardcore has changed alot since the NG/BB days and not for the good!
If you want to help poor DJ HAM pay his bills go ahead, a fool and his money are soon parted.
Agreed! why not just do a cd album and limit it to 100 or 500 copies, something like clsm has done in the past( and many others) and like what music Mondays do, something that shouldn't be overly expensive to do, and keep it at numbers that will sell, so the cds aren't over prodeuced and he makes some money
Vladel
Because it literally is just about the money. The whole exclusivity thing has already been ruined by people teaming up so numbers aren't an issue. It's money plain and simple.
arpz
DJ Ham So it took a bit longer than expected but finally all the deposits are in... stage 1 is complete!
A huge thanks to the 100 who have backed this project... I salute you!!!
Tomorrow I will be sending the free track I promised. This will be to the email that you originally registered with, so please keep an eye out and check spam folders etc... I hope you like it!
Now just the very small matter of me writing this album 😂😂
I've given 6 months as a rough estimate to finish it, it may be sooner (although I highly doubt that lol) or later... so please bare with me, I don't want to rush it! (Although I do have one track near finished already)
Once again thank you for making this idea and project happen!!!
Ham xx
Ikstra
Looks like we'll be seeing even more of Ham in hardcore once the album is done
quote:Dj Ham has agreed to make new old skool hardcore for Kniteforce - but that will not happen until after he has done the album he is working on. Likewise, Alk-e-d, Dj Deluxe and others are planning on getting back int he studio. And with any luck there will be a new Future Primitive as well.
arpz
Oh yeah! And more future primitive too! I like this new found momentum in the Kniteforce camp. Think it calls for a thread!
Mickey Init
The bonus track was Anything For You
arpz
Hi gang!
Once again, a huge thank you to you all! I can?t wait to get cracking!!!
In the meantime, here?s the free track I promised.
Whilst I am totally happy for you to play this track in dj sets in clubs or online, I will not be happy if the full track is shared online? I know I?m giving this track away for free, but it?s only free to you and the rest of the 100, a small thank you from me.
Although I know you will be responsible, I will be keeping an eye on the downloads just so it?s fair for everyone ;-)
Anyway, here it is? it?s an older track but I hope you like it!
Ham - Anything For You (24 bit wav direct download link): (REDACTED)
Clicking the link should be fine but if you are having any trouble downloading it try the ?right click and save as? option.
Ham x
arpz
quote:Originally posted by Mickey Init:
The bonus track was Anything For You
Ahh you beat me :D
Claxton
Can't wait for this album to land!!!!!
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
Hi gang!
Once again, a huge thank you to you all! I can?t wait to get cracking!!!
In the meantime, here?s the free track I promised.
Whilst I am totally happy for you to play this track in dj sets in clubs or online, I will not be happy if the full track is shared online? I know I?m giving this track away for free, but it?s only free to you and the rest of the 100, a small thank you from me.
Although I know you will be responsible, I will be keeping an eye on the downloads just so it?s fair for everyone ;-)
Anyway, here it is? it?s an older track but I hope you like it!
Ham - Anything For You (24 bit wav direct download link): (REDACTED)
Clicking the link should be fine but if you are having any trouble downloading it try the ?right click and save as? option.
Ham x
can only find a slow version on youtube? track is pretty weak though honestly. hope he makes som real uk hardcore for the album
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
I'm going to guess it's the 2011 styles & breeze remix of 24/7.
I think Mickey nailed it. It's gotta be Anything For You.
I could never understand why he didn't just chuck it out on NG/BB before he left the scene. I guess by that point the money he was making from producing hardcore was so little that it was literally not worth his time to even upload it.
We got it. ;)
I got bored of Anything For You years ago though so I was kinda hoping it would be some obscure '00s track. Also mildly amused by the fact that the intro/outro sound identical to the pre-release edit I made for mixing with just a few extra layers on top. Anyone wanna bet he literally only finished the track 2 weeks ago for this?
Of course it's about the money. But as I said in an earlier post while actually defending Ham for this cash-grab, he could still be making a LOT more in dnb. He obviously wants to return to hardcore but expects at least some percentage of the takings he was getting in drums. I reckon that if he genuinely spends months on these tracks as his day job then ?10,000 is a massive undervaluation of his time.
Personally, I'm just thrilled that he hasn't lost the love for hardcore (and trust me, this return, no matter how cynical it seems, means that he hasn't). And the Brisk & Ham photo was the icing on the cake. It's no coincidence that hardcore got vastly worse the same year that Brisk and Ham left the scene.
My biggest fear is that, having invested ?25 that I don't really have, Ham now goes and releases 10 tracks of EDMcore. He wouldn't do that though, would he? Surely he knows what his target audience wants and what his sound was all about. Nah, that can't happen. It'll be a bunch of bangers like Epic Riff, Making Love Forever 2008 and Run To You, right? Someone please comfort me!
I have less faith in how any future Brisk & Ham collabs would turn out. Look at what happened to Fracus & Darwin. I could easily see B&H pulling an F&D. But at least I haven't paid money for that!
On a personal note, dropping that money was probably a great idea for me. Sad as it is, having to wait 6 months for new Ham music gives me a reason to keep myself going for another 6 months. I think about suicide a lot but if I do it now, that's 25 ****ing notes down the drain! This album better be good or Ham's gonna feature heavily in my epitaph.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
Hi gang!
Once again, a huge thank you to you all! I can?t wait to get cracking!!!
In the meantime, here?s the free track I promised.
Whilst I am totally happy for you to play this track in dj sets in clubs or online, I will not be happy if the full track is shared online? I know I?m giving this track away for free, but it?s only free to you and the rest of the 100, a small thank you from me.
Although I know you will be responsible, I will be keeping an eye on the downloads just so it?s fair for everyone ;-)
Anyway, here it is? it?s an older track but I hope you like it!
Ham - Anything For You (24 bit wav direct download link): (REDACTED)
Clicking the link should be fine but if you are having any trouble downloading it try the ?right click and save as? option.
Ham x
can only find a slow version on youtube? track is pretty weak though honestly. hope he makes som real uk hardcore for the album
Until a couple of weeks ago, you could find my pre-release edit of the proper 170 hardcore track on there (not the whole thing, mind). It's a total coincidence that it's not up now actually. I just deleted all my Google accounts as part of finally following through on my Google boycott. Nothing to do with Ham or him finally releasing the track.
And yeah, Anything For You was a really weird one (and this is coming from the guy who produced Skream -- awesome track btw). Out of nowhere, he came with this totally modern "chillout-core" track (there was actually a brief spate of tracks in that style in ~2012 if you remember -- I actually thought that was going to be the new direction for hardcore for a while). Breeze did a set with several tracks like that in it including his Home remix. I actually loved that stuff at the time. I'm all for variation (NOT restriction) in the scene and the chilled out sound was providing some enjoyable variation. It was a nice little diversion for a while (infinitely better than some of the big room shite we have today) but it died pretty quickly and there's no denying that those tracks now sound weak to the traditional UK hardcore fan.
Still probably better than anything else he's produced this decade:
I'm actually listening to that remix for the first time in years and, **** me, I forgot how good it was. Lovely track. Definitely the best thing Breeze has done this decade (possibly even since Sometimes unless I'm forgetting one or two scratch that, Futureworld released some bangers in 2009).
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:... I just deleted all my Google accounts as part of finally following through on my Google boycott.
Is that paranoia I smell, or just napalm in the morning? :P
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:... I just deleted all my Google accounts as part of finally following through on my Google boycott.
Is that paranoia I smell, or just napalm in the morning? :P
Serious answer: I just don't like their business practices. And, yeah, privacy is a large part of that. As is their tax evasion, blatant lying, anti-competitive practices and their uncanny ability to bend over and act as a lapdog for any rich lobbyist or third world dictatorship that asks nicely.
Still got to figure out how to get rid of YouTube but other than that, I've pretty much got it figured out. Life without Google is possible, you guys. ;)
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:... I just deleted all my Google accounts as part of finally following through on my Google boycott.
Is that paranoia I smell, or just napalm in the morning? :P
Serious answer: I just don't like their business practices. And, yeah, privacy is a large part of that. As is their tax evasion, blatant lying, anti-competitive practices and their uncanny ability to bend over and act as a lapdog for any rich lobbyist or third world dictatorship that asks nicely.
Still got to figure out how to get rid of YouTube but other than that, I've pretty much got it figured out. Life without Google is possible, you guys. ;)
So you're an Apple person I'm guessing? The company that uses manufacturing plants that have to build nets around their buildings to prevent their workers from committing suicide? The company that just got handed a multibillion dollar bill from the European Commission for taking advantage of a loophole that should not have existed? Lol ok. Any multi billion dollar compny will not be void of anything you just accused Google of doing so if you want to avoid supporting these evil corporations then move to a remote area an live off the land.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:... I just deleted all my Google accounts as part of finally following through on my Google boycott.
Is that paranoia I smell, or just napalm in the morning? :P
Serious answer: I just don't like their business practices. And, yeah, privacy is a large part of that. As is their tax evasion, blatant lying, anti-competitive practices and their uncanny ability to bend over and act as a lapdog for any rich lobbyist or third world dictatorship that asks nicely.
Still got to figure out how to get rid of YouTube but other than that, I've pretty much got it figured out. Life without Google is possible, you guys. ;)
So you're an Apple person I'm guessing? The company that uses manufacturing plants that have to build nets around their buildings to prevent their workers from committing suicide? The company that just got handed a multibillion dollar bill from the European Commission for taking advantage of a loophole that should not have existed? Lol ok. Any multi billion dollar compny will not be void of anything you just accused Google of doing so if you want to avoid supporting these evil corporations then move to a remote area an live off the land.
Nope. The only difference between Apple and Google is that Apple overcharge you while they **** you.
My phone's open source hardware running a modded AOSP. My computer runs Linux. I'm not a half-baked hipster hypocrite moron.
Sure, the tech giants are all as bad as each other. Doesn't mean we have to suck it up and take it.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by arpz:
Hi gang!
Once again, a huge thank you to you all! I can?t wait to get cracking!!!
In the meantime, here?s the free track I promised.
Whilst I am totally happy for you to play this track in dj sets in clubs or online, I will not be happy if the full track is shared online? I know I?m giving this track away for free, but it?s only free to you and the rest of the 100, a small thank you from me.
Although I know you will be responsible, I will be keeping an eye on the downloads just so it?s fair for everyone ;-)
Anyway, here it is? it?s an older track but I hope you like it!
Ham - Anything For You (24 bit wav direct download link): (REDACTED)
Clicking the link should be fine but if you are having any trouble downloading it try the ?right click and save as? option.
Ham x
can only find a slow version on youtube? track is pretty weak though honestly. hope he makes som real uk hardcore for the album
Until a couple of weeks ago, you could find my pre-release edit of the proper 170 hardcore track on there (not the whole thing, mind). It's a total coincidence that it's not up now actually. I just deleted all my Google accounts as part of finally following through on my Google boycott. Nothing to do with Ham or him finally releasing the track.
And yeah, Anything For You was a really weird one (and this is coming from the guy who produced Skream -- awesome track btw). Out of nowhere, he came with this totally modern "chillout-core" track (there was actually a brief spate of tracks in that style in ~2012 if you remember -- I actually thought that was going to be the new direction for hardcore for a while). Breeze did a set with several tracks like that in it including his Home remix. I actually loved that stuff at the time. I'm all for variation (NOT restriction) in the scene and the chilled out sound was providing some enjoyable variation. It was a nice little diversion for a while (infinitely better than some of the big room shite we have today) but it died pretty quickly and there's no denying that those tracks now sound weak to the traditional UK hardcore fan.
Still probably better than anything else he's produced this decade:
I'm actually listening to that remix for the first time in years and, **** me, I forgot how good it was. Lovely track. Definitely the best thing Breeze has done this decade (possibly even since Sometimes unless I'm forgetting one or two scratch that, Futureworld released some bangers in 2009).
interesting; good info dude!
The drunken scotsman
Just having a proper listen through the tracks now, this is much better than I originally gave it credit for... and that's not a bad starting point.
The brisk and ham collab is as good as anything I've heard in the last 10 years or so. The overall sound of the album is awesome. Loving yeah yeah yeah, forever, bring it back, want you and bounce 2 dis beat. Great vibe throughout and a lot of tracks that have grown on me.
trippnface
ya i shoulda swooped this one.
sonova bitch!
skarr
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Just having a proper listen through the tracks now, this is much better than I originally gave it credit for... and that's not a bad starting point.
The brisk and ham collab is as good as anything I've heard in the last 10 years or so. The overall sound of the album is awesome. Loving yeah yeah yeah, forever, bring it back, want you and bounce 2 dis beat. Great vibe throughout and a lot of tracks that have grown on me.
How exactly do those tracks go ? bet they're well unpredictable ........
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by skarr:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Just having a proper listen through the tracks now, this is much better than I originally gave it credit for... and that's not a bad starting point.
The brisk and ham collab is as good as anything I've heard in the last 10 years or so. The overall sound of the album is awesome. Loving yeah yeah yeah, forever, bring it back, want you and bounce 2 dis beat. Great vibe throughout and a lot of tracks that have grown on me.
How exactly do those tracks go ? bet they're well unpredictable ........
Let's just say that none of them are anywhere near as predictable as you...
Where have you been hiding anyway? I get the impression that you suffer with poor mental health and only come on here when at a particular low point to act like an idiot and try to make yourself feel better. There are better ways of dealing with it mate.
skarr
so whos gonna admit the ham album was ****in epic and well worth ?100 ? no one, absolutely NOBODY has said that.
The drunken scotsman
The Ham album was ****in epic and well worth the ?100.
skarr
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by skarr:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Just having a proper listen through the tracks now, this is much better than I originally gave it credit for... and that's not a bad starting point.
The brisk and ham collab is as good as anything I've heard in the last 10 years or so. The overall sound of the album is awesome. Loving yeah yeah yeah, forever, bring it back, want you and bounce 2 dis beat. Great vibe throughout and a lot of tracks that have grown on me.
How exactly do those tracks go ? bet they're well unpredictable ........
Let's just say that none of them are anywhere near as predictable as you...
Where have you been hiding anyway? I get the impression that you suffer with poor mental health and only come on here when at a particular low point to act like an idiot and try to make yourself feel better. There are better ways of dealing with it mate.
stop getting upset because you threw a 1er down the ham drain, at least I don't come on here to lie to myself about how much that ham scam album was worth half a weeks wages.
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by skarr:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by skarr:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Just having a proper listen through the tracks now, this is much better than I originally gave it credit for... and that's not a bad starting point.
The brisk and ham collab is as good as anything I've heard in the last 10 years or so. The overall sound of the album is awesome. Loving yeah yeah yeah, forever, bring it back, want you and bounce 2 dis beat. Great vibe throughout and a lot of tracks that have grown on me.
How exactly do those tracks go ? bet they're well unpredictable ........
Let's just say that none of them are anywhere near as predictable as you...
Where have you been hiding anyway? I get the impression that you suffer with poor mental health and only come on here when at a particular low point to act like an idiot and try to make yourself feel better. There are better ways of dealing with it mate.
stop getting upset because you threw a 1er down the ham drain, at least I don't come on here to lie to myself about how much that ham scam album was worth half a weeks wages.
As I said pal, there are better ways of dealing with mental health than ranting a load of shite on a forum. The only person getting upset is you. Maybe you should stop spending half your weeks wages on getting ****ed up.
skarr
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by skarr:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by skarr:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Just having a proper listen through the tracks now, this is much better than I originally gave it credit for... and that's not a bad starting point.
The brisk and ham collab is as good as anything I've heard in the last 10 years or so. The overall sound of the album is awesome. Loving yeah yeah yeah, forever, bring it back, want you and bounce 2 dis beat. Great vibe throughout and a lot of tracks that have grown on me.
How exactly do those tracks go ? bet they're well unpredictable ........
Let's just say that none of them are anywhere near as predictable as you...
Where have you been hiding anyway? I get the impression that you suffer with poor mental health and only come on here when at a particular low point to act like an idiot and try to make yourself feel better. There are better ways of dealing with it mate.
stop getting upset because you threw a 1er down the ham drain, at least I don't come on here to lie to myself about how much that ham scam album was worth half a weeks wages.
As I said pal, there are better ways of dealing with mental health than ranting a load of shite on a forum. The only person getting upset is you. Maybe you should stop spending half your weeks wages on getting ****ed up.
i already said. .. we joined at the same time, you have nearly 3 times as many posts as me ? who spends more of their life on here ? me or you ?
The drunken scotsman
Maybe you'd post more on here if you weren't restricted by that straitjacket. Hopefully you get caught again soon and back into the loony bin.
skarr
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Maybe you'd post more on here if you weren't restricted by that straitjacket. Hopefully you get caught again soon and back into the loony bin.
god your funny, bet your the life n soul of every party you never get invited to.
djDMS
If my day release conditions only allowed me one hour a month on the internet, I'd use it much more constructively than being HappyHardcore.com's shittest ever troll.
Vladel
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
ya i shoulda swooped this one.
sonova bitch!
Undoubtedly it will leak at some point if you were bothered.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
ya i shoulda swooped this one.
sonova bitch!
Undoubtedly it will leak at some point if you were bothered.
will it with yout 1111th post? :P
Vladel
I never put in or bought the Ham album but i have always thought that the main issue with piracy was lost sales. In this case like many others, there are no more sales to lose so if someone leaks it, Ham loses nothing. It is also perhaps the rigid nature of the model means that he cannot earn anymore by his own design so where is the harm if piracy does become a factor? Well it becomes less exclusive for one which the exclusivity argument doesn't really fly with me because, the album was created for the fans but priced out for most of them with no possibility of getting their hands on it legally post release so if anything it is an insult but that is a different arguement.
I have only heard the 30 minute mix and I don't think I missed anything but if there was a gem on there and it did become available in some manner, would I go for it? I never admit it if I did but would I judge anyone else who did?
Flatly no, its Hams own fault for being a twat!
1111th post true to form.
trippnface
after listening to another mix featuring all the tracks off this album; Not going to say im glad i did not buy in; but honestly I personally find about half the tracks appealing. Pretty steep for the price. I definitely think he should have thrown some previews up. Nearly all the worthwhile tracks are breakbeat; the only one that really sounds like a brisk & ham track to me is one and only. Would have been way more impressed and severely depressed if all the tracks were in that style.
Don't get me wrong; I ****ing love breaks; but when Ham originally posted this; I thought we were talking about some serious Next Generation vocal style brisk & Ham bangers. would everyone have enjoyed that more?
Now I backed that vibes project; but he was very specific about the exact style of music he will be producing. Which will probably and hopefully be on par with with solid breaky tracks Ham did. I think the tracks he made are ok; but not up to full Ham potential.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
after listening to another mix featuring all the tracks off this album; Not going to say im glad i did not buy in; but honestly I personally find about half the tracks appealing. Pretty steep for the price. I definitely think he should have thrown some previews up. Nearly all the worthwhile tracks are breakbeat; the only one that really sounds like a brisk & ham track to me is one and only. Would have been way more impressed and severely depressed if all the tracks were in that style.
Don't get me wrong; I ****ing love breaks; but when Ham originally posted this; I thought we were talking about some serious Next Generation vocal style brisk & Ham bangers. would everyone have enjoyed that more?
Now I backed that vibes project; but he was very specific about the exact style of music he will be producing. Which will probably and hopefully be on par with with solid breaky tracks Ham did. I think the tracks he made are ok; but not up to full Ham potential.
kinda hard to throw previews up when NONE of the tracks where made at the time of his pitch
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
after listening to another mix featuring all the tracks off this album; Not going to say im glad i did not buy in; but honestly I personally find about half the tracks appealing. Pretty steep for the price. I definitely think he should have thrown some previews up. Nearly all the worthwhile tracks are breakbeat; the only one that really sounds like a brisk & ham track to me is one and only. Would have been way more impressed and severely depressed if all the tracks were in that style.
Don't get me wrong; I ****ing love breaks; but when Ham originally posted this; I thought we were talking about some serious Next Generation vocal style brisk & Ham bangers. would everyone have enjoyed that more?
Now I backed that vibes project; but he was very specific about the exact style of music he will be producing. Which will probably and hopefully be on par with with solid breaky tracks Ham did. I think the tracks he made are ok; but not up to full Ham potential.
kinda hard to throw previews up when NONE of the tracks where made at the time of his pitch
I suppose; but at least some kind of general taste. I was expecting stuff like :
Ham : Time to Reload, come again, run to you, let the rhythm flow .
or : things you do - ham remix, the only ones - ham remix , musik - dj ham remix
brisk & ham - crazy love, brisk & ham - getting hi, brisk & ham - fire & flames.
I dont think 1 track on " The 100" touches any of those. Being seriously honest.
* baha ok that musik remix is obviously not uk hardcore i was just listing my highest rated ham songs ; but i think people would have appreciated atleast 1 old school happy hardcore track :P
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
after listening to another mix featuring all the tracks off this album; Not going to say im glad i did not buy in; but honestly I personally find about half the tracks appealing. Pretty steep for the price. I definitely think he should have thrown some previews up. Nearly all the worthwhile tracks are breakbeat; the only one that really sounds like a brisk & ham track to me is one and only. Would have been way more impressed and severely depressed if all the tracks were in that style.
Don't get me wrong; I ****ing love breaks; but when Ham originally posted this; I thought we were talking about some serious Next Generation vocal style brisk & Ham bangers. would everyone have enjoyed that more?
Now I backed that vibes project; but he was very specific about the exact style of music he will be producing. Which will probably and hopefully be on par with with solid breaky tracks Ham did. I think the tracks he made are ok; but not up to full Ham potential.
kinda hard to throw previews up when NONE of the tracks where made at the time of his pitch
I suppose; but at least some kind of general taste. I was expecting stuff like :
Ham : Time to Reload, come again, run to you, let the rhythm flow .
or : things you do - ham remix, the only ones - ham remix , musik - dj ham remix
brisk & ham - crazy love, brisk & ham - getting hi, brisk & ham - fire & flames.
I dont think 1 track on " The 100" touches any of those. Being seriously honest.
* baha ok that musik remix is obviously not uk hardcore i was just listing my highest rated ham songs ; but i think people would have appreciated atleast 1 old school happy hardcore track :P
Why would you want him to make dated sounding tracks from a decade ago? Hams album was the freshest sounding hardcore album I have ever bought. Sure it was a lot of money. But he definitely delivered.
I can see your one of of those people that thinks modern UK hardcore has to stay in the tiny box of only what you like. Sped up trance with cheesy vocals from the 2000s. If it is not that, you suddenly declare it not being hardcore.
Hardcore was more than that in the 90s, and it is becoming a lot more than that now with all the new generation of producers comming through. Pushing the boundaries with new and modern ideas.
Either move on, or stay miserable, jaded and narrow minded.
Impulse_Response
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Why would you want him to make dated sounding tracks from a decade ago? Hams album was the freshest sounding hardcore album I have ever bought. Sure it was a lot of money. But he definitely delivered.
I can see your one of of those people that thinks modern UK hardcore has to stay in the tiny box of only what you like. Sped up trance with cheesy vocals from the 2000s. If it is not that, you suddenly declare it not being hardcore.
Hardcore was more than that in the 90s, and it is becoming a lot more than that now with all the new generation of producers comming through. Pushing the boundaries with new and modern ideas.
Either move on, or stay miserable, jaded and narrow minded.
Trying new things is fine, but at the end of the day crap is crap. I haven't heard the Ham album, but most of the new hardcore I have heard is crap.
Samination
Welcome back rafferty, still going on about the same ol' crap I see :P
And no. This doesn't sound one bit fresh if you ask me. It was basicly just old stuff with updated samples.
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Why would you want him to make dated sounding tracks from a decade ago? Hams album was the freshest sounding hardcore album I have ever bought. Sure it was a lot of money. But he definitely delivered.
I can see your one of of those people that thinks modern UK hardcore has to stay in the tiny box of only what you like. Sped up trance with cheesy vocals from the 2000s. If it is not that, you suddenly declare it not being hardcore.
Hardcore was more than that in the 90s, and it is becoming a lot more than that now with all the new generation of producers comming through. Pushing the boundaries with new and modern ideas.
Either move on, or stay miserable, jaded and narrow minded.
Trying new things is fine, but at the end of the day crap is crap. I haven't heard the Ham album, but most of the new hardcore I have heard is crap.
Well that is all relative to the individuals opinion. Like a load of people who raved back in the 90s would say what you like is total shite.
As for hardcore today, it is way more innovative and better produced than all those hardcore tracks from back in the 2000s. When everything sounded like a trance record pitched up. Was no variety what so ever.
As for Hams new album. Your thoughts are in the small minority. Has had all good feedback on soundcloud. I guess you did'nt like it because it didn't sound like dated hardcore from a decade ago.
Thankfully Ham is smarter than that, and knows how to be creative and push boundaries. While if you made an album, it would be nothing new and just a copy of shit already done to death from the past.
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
Welcome back rafferty, still going on about the same ol' crap I see :P
And no. This doesn't sound one bit fresh if you ask me. It was basicly just old stuff with updated samples.
I just don't get why people keep wanting to listen to the same old sounding shit over and over and over and over and over and over again.
The way the scene is going, and the stuff new producers are making. It seems most people are agreeing with me. Hardstyle and EDM influences are more common than ever with productions.
djDMS
I've said it 33000 times before, and I'll say it again.
There is NOTHING wrong with innovation, progression, change - whatever you want to call it.
BUT
There's a big difference between being influenced by other genres and incorporating them into your own style, and imitating them with an extra 30-40 BPM slapped on top.
I loved the Ham album because it was him but brought up to date. I would have been disappointed with 10 2005 sounding tracks or a bunch of Hardstyle/Dubstep/Trap rip offs.
By all means, take risks. But to me, there's nothing risky about sounding like sped up chart music.
Freeform tried a different approach but it didn't really work out.
I want to see a return to the 'anything goes' approach. That's the only way to reclaim Hardcore and shake off the 'copycat' tag it's currently lumbered with.
Samination
tbh, Hardcore still has alot of anything goes, but because it's not british or dutch, everyone just forgoes it.
I can't say I like a lot of (the truly) J-core, but if anything's "anything goes" today, the japense market is right there
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Why would you want him to make dated sounding tracks from a decade ago? Hams album was the freshest sounding hardcore album I have ever bought. Sure it was a lot of money. But he definitely delivered.
I can see your one of of those people that thinks modern UK hardcore has to stay in the tiny box of only what you like. Sped up trance with cheesy vocals from the 2000s. If it is not that, you suddenly declare it not being hardcore.
Hardcore was more than that in the 90s, and it is becoming a lot more than that now with all the new generation of producers comming through. Pushing the boundaries with new and modern ideas.
Either move on, or stay miserable, jaded and narrow minded.
Trying new things is fine, but at the end of the day crap is crap. I haven't heard the Ham album, but most of the new hardcore I have heard is crap.
Well that is all relative to the individuals opinion. Like a load of people who raved back in the 90s would say what you like is total shite.
As for hardcore today, it is way more innovative and better produced than all those hardcore tracks from back in the 2000s. When everything sounded like a trance record pitched up. Was no variety what so ever.
As for Hams new album. Your thoughts are in the small minority. Has had all good feedback on soundcloud. I guess you did'nt like it because it didn't sound like dated hardcore from a decade ago.
Thankfully Ham is smarter than that, and knows how to be creative and push boundaries. While if you made an album, it would be nothing new and just a copy of shit already done to death from the past.
no worries, vibes & hattrixx " more than a decade dated" project will smash Hams... once it comes out.
still on about that sped up trance nonsense dude. seriously hilarious.
Vladel
Funny because anyone who bought the Ham album would never admit it was overpriced crap.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
Funny because anyone who bought the Ham album would never admit it was overpriced crap.
How are half the site users gunna say next gen/ blatant beats the best label, then talk down on the era of uk hardcore where next gen/ blatant beats dominated. Ham totally neglected to put any style track like that on the new project. I would have been infinitely more impressed with a 4x4 kick, than almost every track being breakbeat dominated. seeing as the vast majority of brisk and ham was 4x4 uk hardcore, I would have imagined that is what people thought they would be paying for, and gladly...
Samination
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
Funny because anyone who bought the Ham album would never admit it was overpriced crap.
How are half the site users gunna say next gen/ blatant beats the best label, then talk down on the era of uk hardcore where next gen/ blatant beats dominated. Ham totally neglected to put any style track like that on the new project. I would have been infinitely more impressed with a 4x4 kick, than almost every track being breakbeat dominated. seeing as the vast majority of brisk and ham was 4x4 uk hardcore, I would have imagined that is what people thought they would be paying for, and gladly...
Ham's album rarelly sounded like the stuff he released on NG/BB though.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
Funny because anyone who bought the Ham album would never admit it was overpriced crap.
How are half the site users gunna say next gen/ blatant beats the best label, then talk down on the era of uk hardcore where next gen/ blatant beats dominated. Ham totally neglected to put any style track like that on the new project. I would have been infinitely more impressed with a 4x4 kick, than almost every track being breakbeat dominated. seeing as the vast majority of brisk and ham was 4x4 uk hardcore, I would have imagined that is what people thought they would be paying for, and gladly...
Ham's album rarelly sounded like the stuff he released on NG/BB though.
that's what im sayin, i think most people would have prefered that style ( **** you rafferty <3 ;) )
we only got 1 track like that, and it was a track he made years ago!
I personally think it was a bit disingenuous on his part..
Samination
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
Funny because anyone who bought the Ham album would never admit it was overpriced crap.
How are half the site users gunna say next gen/ blatant beats the best label, then talk down on the era of uk hardcore where next gen/ blatant beats dominated. Ham totally neglected to put any style track like that on the new project. I would have been infinitely more impressed with a 4x4 kick, than almost every track being breakbeat dominated. seeing as the vast majority of brisk and ham was 4x4 uk hardcore, I would have imagined that is what people thought they would be paying for, and gladly...
Ham's album rarelly sounded like the stuff he released on NG/BB though.
that's what im sayin, i think most people would have prefered that style ( **** you rafferty <3 ;) )
we only got 1 track like that, and it was a track he made years ago!
I personally think it was a bit disingenuous on his part..
totally missed that... because I only read the first sentence :P
But yea. Talking about hardcore never changes, and praises it when it goes back to it's roots... very forward thinking. I'll stick to my Japanese sheit
trippnface
So real talk, how does everyone feel about " most impressive" blowing every track he made for this album out of the water? :P
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
So real talk, how does everyone feel about " most impressive" blowing every track he made for this album out of the water? :P
What?
Impulse_Response
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
So real talk, how does everyone feel about " most impressive" blowing every track he made for this album out of the water? :P
No surprise there - Lniteforce/KFA are the only labels putting out consistently good shit. I haven't bought a HU company since late 2015/early 2016 and any other compa outside of them since early 2010's. J-Core labels are putting out good shit but I worry about HC as a whole ..
Who were the last "big names"? F&D? And that was almost a decade ago that they became viable on their own/could sell out events .. We haven't had any new names since then that could take over the mantle once the old guard leaves.
Even this forum is proof of that .. Like HC itself this place hasn't had new members in ages. Even when social media became a thing this forum still survived, even as other forums of all kinds were closing down at an alarming rate, because people were still invested and it gave them a place to congregate. Now that the genre is turning people off and we have no new posters this place has become more and more dead, and if all the current members who keep this place afloat get turned off by the genre, and we don't get any new producers to keep the genre alive .. Ugh :(.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Skidzorz:
No surprise there - Lniteforce/KFA are the only labels putting out consistently good shit. I haven't bought a HU company since late 2015/early 2016 and any other compa outside of them since early 2010's. J-Core labels are putting out good shit but I worry about HC as a whole ..
Who were the last "big names"? F&D? And that was almost a decade ago that they became viable on their own/could sell out events .. We haven't had any new names since then that could take over the mantle once the old guard leaves.
Even this forum is proof of that .. Like HC itself this place hasn't had new members in ages. Even when social media became a thing this forum still survived, even as other forums of all kinds were closing down at an alarming rate, because people were still invested and it gave them a place to congregate. Now that the genre is turning people off and we have no new posters this place has become more and more dead, and if all the current members who keep this place afloat get turned off by the genre, and we don't get any new producers to keep the genre alive .. Ugh :(.
Agreed. HU tries hard ( <3) but the direction and way things went is just really too bad. The desire for growth of the scene became swallowed up by ultra commericial elements of edm at large, and it has just gotten worse & worse basically. I get commericial elements have played a roll for a long time, I suppose the music scene as a whole just got alot worse. Look at rap and the mumble rappers lol.
Kniteforce doesn't have to follow the ******** elements of modern hardcore, and can produce hardcore when hardcore was serious hardcore. It is seriously refreshing and imo the only hope for the hardcore scene, full 90's redo/rebirth.
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