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HHC-CQIU
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Joined: [2016-2026]
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 Posted - 2019/06/28 : 15:53:13
I have noticed an issue with the sound quality of tracks that Hardcore Underground have been releasing in the last 3-4 Months. First of all it might not be them it might be something on my end so I want to list the tracks I have noticed in 1 thread to see if other people can hear it. I have already had 1 conformation on the 24/7 Hardcore thread. I'm also ok if this is just how they sound. I have no experience with the older stuff so I'm not used to the tracks so it might be intentional. Also might just be the only copy Hardcore Underground could get in which case that's also fine. Second I have only very quickly listened to tracks in rekordbox using the preview waveform so I might have some mistakes of some you might be able to hear not listed. Third I'm listening on a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd Gen Using KRK rocket 5 G3's. Also tested using Audio Technica ATH-M50X using headphone out on Focusrite sound card and Mac mini 2018 headphone jack. Fourth I'm trying to figure this out so Hardcore Underground don't spend a lot of time looking for issues to find out it's something wrong on my end.
The issue in question is high frequency distortion or crackling.
Will update this thread as tracks either get confirmed. Will also remove tracks if there isn't a problem others can hear. I haven't gone through the Warped Science bundle because CDJay mentioned that he has re uploaded the folders with fixes and I haven't got around to downloading them yet.
List
Clued
MC MC & Rush Hour - Music Maker (Fury's Vengeance)
Triple J - Follow The Sun (90 In The Shade Mix)
Triple J - Follow The Sun (Burnt 'N' Peelin' Mix)
Just Another Label
Becks - Dynamite (The Remix)
Billy Bunter - New Sensation (Brisk Remix)
Billy Bunter - New Sensation (Original Mix)
Citadel Of Kaos - Paradise Lost (Justin Time Remix)
Citadel Of Kaos - Paradise Lost (Original Mix)
Citadel Of Kaos feat. Dave Jay - Show Me Love (DJ Ham Remix)
Deep Wave - Power (Ad Man Remix)
Deep Wave - Power (Triple J Remix)
DJ Ham, DJ Demo & Justin Time - Here I Am (Brisk Break Beat Mix)
DNA & Breeze - High In The Sun (Justin Time Remix)
DNA & Breeze - High In The Sun (Original Mix)
Donna - I Believed (Dub)
Donna - Stay Now (Original Jump Up Mix)
Donna Blakely - Happy (Triple J Remix)
Highlife feat. Jenka - Good Times
Highlife feat. Jenka - Is This Happiness
Justin Time feat. Jenka - The No. 1
Justin Time feat. Marls - Help Me (Original Mix)
Love Nation & Justin Time - Music Is Ecstacy (Sky High Mix)
Triple J - Have It All (Future Mix)
Triple J - Have It All (Panoramic Mix)
Triple J - Wonderful World (Global Mix)
Triple J - Wonderful World (Original Mix)
Both Sy & Unknown Tracks
New Sensation
2 Left Feet - Never Let You Go (Highlife Remix)
2 Left Feet - Never Let You Go
DJ Unity feat. Jenka - Freedom (DJ Ham Stomp Mix)
DNA - Go Insane (Future Primitive Remix)
Stompin Choonz
Adem - Crazy Daze
DJ Fury - Revolution
DJ Fury feat. Yemisi - All I Ever Wanted (Eddie Wray Remix)
Helix & Astral - Fuktup
Helix & Astral feat. Donna - Surrounding Symphony
Helix & DJ Fury - Y Not (Original Mix)
Tekno Dred & Ad Man - A Voice Spoke To Me (Helix Remix)
Tekno Dred & Ad Man - Can It Be
Tekno Dred feat. Dave Jay - Change The Style
Terrible Twins - Burn This Joint (Helix vs Tekno Dred Mix)
WE 3 - Groovy Dimensions
XY2
Artist Unknown - Mischief Goddess
Citadel Of Kaos - Ex Ravers On The Verge (Of A Nervous Breakdown)
Citadel Of Kaos - Prime Suspect
The Tekno Dred Alliance - Dark Eden
24/7 Hardcore
Al Storm - Crash - 247HC020
Al Storm - Euphoria (Alternative Mix) - 247HC080X
Al Storm - Hardcore To The Bone - 247HC071
Al Storm - Shadows (Minus D&B Edit) - 247HC020X
Al Storm - Werewolf - 247HC047
Al Storm & Bishop feat Deanne - Follow Me - 247HC027
Al Storm & Orbit1 feat Lisa Abbott - Falling Through (Nu Foundation Remix) - 247HC065
DJ Seduction & Al Storm feat Malaya - Destiny - 247HC026 (CONFIRMED)
Update Just Another Label
Citadel Of Kaos feat Dave Jay - Show Me Love (Original Mix)
Brisk & Trixxy feat Lenny - See The Light
Update
Some tracks also have the issues from the Just another Label store and some don't.
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Edited by - on 2019/08/09 08:17:08 |
Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,351 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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 Posted - 2019/06/28 : 16:28:46
Have you tried leaving the house and talking to people mate, maybe having a pint in the sun
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,251 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/06/28 : 16:45:58
I'll investigate but I will note the adman remix of power sounds tremendous to me, and my stereo is far from terrible. 😉
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,251 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/06/28 : 17:45:01
Hero. If its not a source issue we will resolve. That said I checked that track at 110db on a 1kwpc balanced amp setup with high end DAC featuring room correction on kef reference 3 speakers so if there was an issue with that track at source I probably would have noticed. There may well be something at encoding level. On it!
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,251 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/06/28 : 18:15:52
That track specifically sounds amazing for the age. I'd put it up with the earlier Chicane stuff. Again, I will investigate!
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Anon.
Starting Member
United Kingdom
10 posts
Joined: Dec, 2014
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Posted - 2019/06/28 : 19:47:19
That high frequency distortion is probably the aliens trying to communicate with you.
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/06/28 : 22:16:35
It still sounds amazing to me at 110db, *but* I am using the source file. Check your PM, I've sent to compare
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Advather
Senior Member
United States
256 posts
Joined: Jun, 2013
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Posted - 2019/06/28 : 22:24:32
quote:
Originally posted by MusicILove:
I can hear it in the vocal from 2.20. although it might be something wrong with my speakers or sound card. Might also be how it's so post to sound.
I hear the same thing. I'm using my PC main output into Event 20/20s. I also hear a little bit on the kicks and other places where there's a sharp change in sound intensity. I haven't listened to the rest but I posted about it in your previous thread.
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Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
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CDJay
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Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/06/28 : 22:35:04
I'll go listen again, but genuinely I think the Adman remix of Power sounds phenomenal for the time. I'll send you the direct file also; it's not "Offshore" or "Sunstroke" but compared to most latter 90s hardcore I'm surprised we're being picky. Which means I must check!
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,251 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/06/29 : 04:34:15
I'm actually very interested in investigating this, as I've been hugely disadvantaged by not having my stereo /ht room since May 18. I'm actually listening to tracks now and forcefully remember the agonising t-racks brickwalling hell of the mid nougties. I find it amusing that even with obvious production standards disparity hu1 is infinitely more pleasant at volume than Clubland Xtreme 😂
Why did UK Hardcore decide to pick ear shattering over dynamics when every other genre was doing the opposite ? I swear people were still doing it when ITunes put something in to reduce overall volume when presented with such a thing. If there's something our end I will resolve but what I sent you was prior to upload (DAT sourced). Have it all is interesting as i believe we chose the "Sound Of Happycore" sourced variant over the latter supplied one. Pretty sure I supplied that to Hixxy for that recent Happy Hardcore album as it seemed the best version. As I keep saying these bundles are fluid and ever evolving, all feedback is genuinely useful and welcomed! Together we'll get these things borderline tolerable to listen to! 😉
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Edited by - CDJay on 2019/06/29 04:43:35 |
Advather
Senior Member
United States
256 posts
Joined: Jun, 2013
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Posted - 2019/06/29 : 04:43:10
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
I'm actually very interested in investigating this, as I've been hugely disadvantaged by not having my stereo /ht room since May 18. I'm actually listening to tracks now and forcefully remember the agonising t-racks brickwalling hell of the mid nougties. I find it amusing that even with obvious production standards disparity hu1 is infinitely more pleasant at volume than Clubland Xtreme 😂
Why did UK Hardcore decide to pick ear shattering over dynamics when every other genre was doing the opposite ? I swear people were still doing it when ITunes put something in to reduce overall volume when presented with such a thing. If there's something our end I will resolve but what I sent you was prior to upload (DAT sourced). Have it all is interasni believe I chose the "Sound oh Happycore" sources variant over the latter supplied one. Pretty sure I supplied that to Hixxy for that recent Happy Hardcore album as it seemed the best version. As I keep saying these bundles are fluid and ever evolving, a feedback is genuinely useful and welcomed!
CDJay
I hope you're letting yourself get some sleep tonight! Isn't it getting close to morning there?
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Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,251 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/06/29 : 04:53:25
Darwin is flying back into BHX at 6:30 from Dublin. I'm on standby in case of (almost inevitable) train issues. I think I get off light, he set off before midday yesterday and won't get back to Hastings before midday today 😂
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Advather
Senior Member
United States
256 posts
Joined: Jun, 2013
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Posted - 2019/07/01 : 02:12:07
I did a quick analysis on the Destiny track linked above (I didn't hear any clipping in the youtube video). My conclusion: a problem with the source file and nothing wrong on HU's end. Probably clipping burned into the file by intersample peaks going way above full scale. Likely root cause is loudness war mastering, as is my usual complaint, but something goofy is going on in this particular case.
I loaded the DJ Seduction - Destiny from Storm's 24/7 bundle into Reaper. I used a true peak meter to check peak values and the TT DR meter to approximate overall dynamics. The track immediately jumps up to sample values of 0 dBfs (loudest possible digital level) from the very beginning of the song. The true peak (intersample value) goes all the way up to +5.6 dBfs!! The DR value hovers around 3 and the integrated RMS around -4.0 (ignore the screencap) which suggests that extreme compression was applied during mastering.
For comparison, I bought this track off of Beatport and ran the same analyses. The DR value and integrated RMS were the same as for the bundle version, but the true peak values were much lower, at only 2.0 dBfs. This is a pretty typical value for a hardcore release and it doesn't usually cause clipping on my end.
I'm surprised. They both have the same RMS values, overall dynamics, and perceived loudness (according to my ears) but the one from the 24/7 bundle has true peaks that go 3.6 dB higher than on the Beatport download. How the hell does that happen?
I believe the cause of the clipping in the bundle version is the fact the true peak goes so freaking high. It likely burned damage permanently into the track, and if that's correct then the only way to fix it is locate a different master or remaster at lower levels. Whether this is the problem in this case or not, a good idea going forward is for mastering engineers to add true peak meters into their workflows and not let the true peak level go above -1.0 dBfs, as recommended by Ian Shepherd.
Reference images below. Ignore the difference in integrated RMS; I double-checked and it hovered around -4.0 for both versions.
Reference images 24/7 Bundle:
https://imgur.com/T6nAtxf
https://imgur.com/oVkzeg3
Reference images Beatport download:
https://imgur.com/lCoqBN0
https://imgur.com/61SNY9s
__________________________________
Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
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Edited by - Advather on 2019/07/01 02:15:44 |
CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,251 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2019/07/01 : 11:34:17
Any issues that can be fixed, will be. We're already checking supplied variants, mastered variants pre and post upload.
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Advather
Senior Member
United States
256 posts
Joined: Jun, 2013
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Posted - 2019/07/01 : 22:15:23
quote:
Originally posted by MusicILove:
Thank you for your investigating.
I hope they can remaster and fix these issues. It's a little disappointing when you can buy better quality versions on Beatport or on the Just Another Label Store. I thought these were so post to be the best possible source. I think they need to look at everything since the first Just another label batch because that seems to be where things start to go wrong. I purchased the mp3 versions of what I wanted from the Just Another Label store and I'm going to stick to them for the moment. I didn't have much 24/7 Hardcore so that's why I brought the bundle although I probably should of just gone and brought the individual tracks I wanted. I will hold out re-buying them in hopes we get a fix.
I hope my findings don't cause any harm to HU or make them lose business. Especially because I'm just an audio enthusiast and not a professional, so I could be completely wrong. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this here.
__________________________________
Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
Alert moderator
Edited by - Advather on 2019/07/01 22:15:42 |
Mickey Init
Senior Member
United Kingdom
393 posts
Joined: Oct, 2012
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Posted - 2019/07/24 : 21:21:51
Question for you Thumpa...
Looking to buy some pre-2000 happy hardcore tracks digitally (Impact, Quosh etc, even some Cocooma tracks) and wanted to know, in a nutshell, 320kbps or WAV?
2000-2019 tunes I?m more than happy with 320 but have doubts with earlier tunes.
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"Like bread to marmalade... Vinylgroover with the crossfade!" - MC Freestyle
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