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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2012/07/12 : 16:24:44
If i'm still wearing pants at the end of the night it's not Hardcore.
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Taking my time to perfect the beat
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Backmasker
New Member
United Kingdom
71 posts
Joined: May, 2011
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Posted - 2012/07/12 : 16:31:53
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
If i'm still wearing pants at the end of the night it's not Hardcore.
and with that all agreed that the discussion was closed 
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Offline since 30/09/13.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,073 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2012/07/12 : 17:40:39
quote:
Originally posted by snerkler:
I hate these questions as everyone has an opinion (including myself). But the facts are that Hardcore is a big umbrella that encompasses a whole variety of music, ranging from oldschool, to happy hardcore, to techno, to jungle to drum n bass.
Typically any music that uses atonal beats, as well as industrial sounds and samples can be deemed to be Hardcore. So, it does not refer to a BPM as oldschool is at 130-145 bpm, happy hardcore 160-175bpm, drum n bass 175bpm+. However, hardcore can be under 100bpm.
Neither is it defined by bass, as again just the styles mentioned all have different sounding bass.
Most dance music we listen to today has spawned from Hardcore (Hardcore itself being born in the late 80's), and because it has now become so diverse we have to categorise the sub genres, eg happy hardcore, jungle, techno etc, each of which can be defined in it's own way. but it's still all hardcore.
So depending on how you view it you can argue that Happy Hardcore is not hardcore, it is purely Happy hardcore, which happens to fall under the hardcore umbrella. It depends how pedantic you want to be.
I've been around since day one (showing my age now) and I refer to the early 'rave' stuff as Hardcore (as this is what it was only known as), and the rest of the stuff as it's own sub genre. But technically to call Jungle, for example, hardcore is not wrong.
Some like calling it Techno. Some like to call it Rave. Personally, it's both since Hardcore (and genre's alike) take as much from both genre's as any other :P
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Luna-C
Average Member
United Kingdom
222 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
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Posted - 2012/07/27 : 15:13:40
I wrote a thing about this at the end of my book, and if I get time I will grab it and post it on my site.
For now, I will just say this topic touches on the big problem hardcore has - which is that it has no defined sound. Back in the day, it had its own sound, and it stole from others as part of that sound. Nowadays, it just lurches between stealing from this, and being influenced by that.
Its a huge issue because hardcore cannot move forward or grow when so little of it is strictly hardcore.
The result is that if you really want to define what hardcore is right now, then its Darren Styles / HTID type stuff with the 4x4 kick / trance stab / vocal about flying / ecstasy / higher rinse and repeat. All the rest is either trance but faster, or d'n'b with rave elements, or old school.
Thats not to say that there are not some great tracks...it's just that they cannot claim to be "hardcore" because their influences overwhelm them.
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warped_candykid
Advanced Member
United States
3,934 posts
Joined: Jan, 2004
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Posted - 2012/07/27 : 18:05:04
We all know that Happy Hardcore became the big image of the Hardcore genres. In essence, Happy Hardcore had a mixture of break beats underlying a 4/4 kick drum. Synths, Pianos and pipe organs were used at hyper paces over the 4/4 kick drum, which mainly consisted of over-the-top happy melodies. Chirpy female vocals were placed over the pianos, with lyrics that usually consisted of love and happiness. The production tempo was between 160-180 bpm, with most mixing tempos based in the 170s-180s. I feel this is the most grounded frame for Happy Hardcore, without all the borrowing from other genres. The argument with tempo is what do you say to justify that Hardcore is solely based on the 170bpm tempo when there are other genres producing at this tempo as well? You got to have that framework to show what each genre IS. When a track from an outside genre is remixed, as long as that particular remix is constructed within Hardcore's framework, then that remix is now considered a Hardcore version. No matter what the evolution of a genre is, as long as it sticks to it's framework, it is what it is. To me, I still considered the electro/dub step influenced production to still be hardcore because it still falls in Hardcore's framework. It really just comes down to you researching your music, researching the past releases from a particular artist, and knowing the frameworks.
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Underloop
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,895 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
91 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2012/07/28 : 07:04:34
Hardcore isn't about the start or end point, its about the journey
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
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Archefluxx
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,112 posts
Joined: Sep, 2011
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Posted - 2012/08/02 : 03:14:57
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
Hardcore isn't about the start or end point, its about the journey
Ive been making my music to include more of a journey these days.
My 'Take Control' remix has an African feel to it.
A collab with Ranzor is more Egyptian.
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Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0KDPkzp05mZsdmkykMqFCt?si=AT5PvWuLTU-jUMEMWuB-PQ SC: http://soundcloud.com/archefluxx YT: http://www.youtube.com/user/afbofficial
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Josephson_Junction
Advanced Member
United States
512 posts
Joined: Jan, 2012
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Posted - 2012/08/02 : 03:48:22
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
For now, I will just say this topic touches on the big problem hardcore has - which is that it has no defined sound. Back in the day, it had its own sound, and it stole from others as part of that sound. Nowadays, it just lurches between stealing from this, and being influenced by that.
Its a huge issue because hardcore cannot move forward or grow when so little of it is strictly hardcore.
The result is that if you really want to define what hardcore is right now, then its Darren Styles / HTID type stuff with the 4x4 kick / trance stab / vocal about flying / ecstasy / higher rinse and repeat. All the rest is either trance but faster, or d'n'b with rave elements, or old school.
Thats not to say that there are not some great tracks...it's just that they cannot claim to be "hardcore" because their influences overwhelm them.
I've noticed this. It also seems like a lot of hardcore songs from between 2000 and 2004 are at a halfway-point between the classic "hardcore sound" and the heavily influenced sound like you said.
I've also noticed some songs that seem confused about their genre; Substanced & Horzi - Superior Pressure (Sam One Remix); Full Circle DJs - Things Past; Buzzmasta - Cloudy Day; Amalgamation Station & Ephexis - With Full Spiral. They're great, but their tempo and sound make their genre kinda hard to define for me!
Alright, so... what happens if you replace the supersaws with different synths? Haven't they become a pretty big part of hardcore?
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Edited by - Josephson_Junction on 2012/08/02 03:51:50 |
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,073 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2012/08/02 : 04:42:45
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
Hardcore isn't about the start or end point, its about the journey
if you consider music an art maybe. I consider music being an entertainment form. Or maybe you consider Mona Lisa being entertaining? =P
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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When does it stop being hardcore?
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