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djtommyrenegade
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2002/11/27 :  04:56:34  Show profile  Send a private message
ubfortunatley i have to say this,
can you blame mixmag for putting across that happy hardcore is childish? I mean look at the way we are argueing with mixmag!?
I think we should stop and by this time next year, hardcore will not be popular to them and we will be back were we belong .... underground!

The underground sound bombards the streets

DJ Renegade aka Tommy C

thomas crossley


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Midway_raver
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Posted - 2002/11/27 :  14:21:56  Show profile  Send a private message
i Dunno if Mixmag is gonna continue covering hardcore i spose we should at least be supportive i mean more coverage=more exposure=more money. And that'll bring new artists better equipment etc , and when the scene eventually goes back underground we'll still av the olde faithful wiv better production stuff and alot of the new breed still doing it for the scene.

Though i agree entirely wiv the fact that mixmag shud kiss every true hardcore ravers ass till there lips r numb and grovel!!

I know they have done a few articles on hardcore but what about an in depth article that explains what the scene all about, apoligising for the wrongs of the past , interviews with major artists possibly people like hixxy, brisk, breeze and styles etc. Views from ravers. Track reviews, event reviews. Not just "slap a cd on the front, say we love hardcore and BANG ££££££"

Viv If ur gonna cover hardcore, at least have the f**king repsect to do it properly, get people to write about it who know about the scene, because to be honest what can u lot write about hardcore that is gonna b appealing to us lot, in all fairness and i think u urself wud admit this, u probably no about as much as about hardcore as i do indie-retro-garage-nu skool-funk house or whatever u usually cater for!

and Viv u gotta expect a slating, imagine if the ku klux klan suddenyl realised black hip hop music cud make em money and started releasing sum trax. Do u think they'd get a warm reception?

oh yeah and if i see gingis feckin gurn or woteva his name is turning up dressed as a wizard at a rave near me im sorry but i gotta giv him a kick in just for old times sake!! Call it revenge:)

Like a bolt of lightning it's so frightning..Get ur brain now we're igniting


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You will not laugh, You will not cry, You will learn by the numbers!


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Soren
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United States
499 posts
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Posted - 2002/11/27 :  15:11:40  Show profile  Send a private message
quote:
can you blame mixmag for putting across that happy hardcore is childish? I mean look at the way we are argueing with mixmag!?

Yeah, totally! I mean presenting thoughtful points and counterpoints backed up with facts and quotes of previous slander against HHC sure does make us look dumb!


______________________________________________________
I don't care if it rains or freezes, Long as I have my plastic Jesus Riding on the dashboard of my car; Going 90, it ain't scary cause I've got the virgin Mary; sitting on the dashboard of my car.


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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain.


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Edited by - Soren on 2002/11/27 15:12:13
mcjutt
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Posted - 2002/11/27 :  23:04:01  Show profile  Send a private message
the cd is good the only thing is storm is failry quiet but then he didnt have a crowd to hype up did he?

get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight


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Shammmmmmmmmmmooooooooooone


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James D
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United Kingdom
344 posts
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76 hardcore releases
Posted - 2002/11/27 :  23:32:56  Show profile  Send a private message
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
can you blame mixmag for putting across that happy hardcore is childish? I mean look at the way we are argueing with mixmag!?


erm yes you can.
mixmag do claim hardcore is childish, and have took the piss several times in the past, mainly whilst implying this.


us pointing out they are hypocrites and arguing hardly seems childish to me.....



__________________________________
have you got some of this hardcore power?
let the bass beat louder....


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Viv @ Mixmag
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  01:46:45  Show profile  Send a private message
ok, so Mixmag takes the piss out of hardcore, then writes about it as it gets more mainstream attention, then puts out a pretty good free cd.

In return you call us the KKK, want to beat up my writers and overall react like overserious little children. For a scene that's really fun, you guys are really ****ing serious. Lighten up a bit - can't you take a bit of piss taking. If Mixmag is shit and no one in the scene respects it then whether we take the piss out of the scene or big it up would have no effect would it?

your arguements not only don't stand up, but worse than that, it's quite sad that you're all getting so wound up by a dance music mag covering dance music. Either buy it or don't, it' simple.





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Midway_raver
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  03:08:35  Show profile  Send a private message
"and Viv u gotta expect a slating, imagine if the ku klux klan suddenyl realised black hip hop music cud make em money and started releasing sum trax. Do u think they'd get a warm reception?

oh yeah and if i see gingis feckin gurn or woteva his name is turning up dressed as a wizard at a rave near me im sorry but i gotta giv him a kick in just for old times sake!! Call it revenge:)"

Jesus the last bit was said jokingly!! I think you need 2 chill out urself abit And the bit before that was just a comparison that seemed to fit!!

But the rest of my post was actually constructive maybe giving u an idea of what i/we wud like to see in ur mag if u were gonna cover hardcore...

Sheesh!!


Like a bolt of lightning it's so frightning..Get ur brain now we're igniting


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You will not laugh, You will not cry, You will learn by the numbers!


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James D
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  03:18:38  Show profile  Send a private message
"ok, so Mixmag takes the piss out of hardcore, then writes about it as it gets more mainstream attention, then puts out a pretty good free cd"

our arguments dont stand up???!?
that one quote alone shows that our argument is obviously well founded, and its not childish at all.

who says we want to beat ur writers up? (not a bad idea tho....) ; )

if your writers had any sort of musical passion they would realise you cant just say yeh yeh we love hardcore lets throw on a free cd and everyones happy.

as for takin the piss bein a joke, im sure u'll find that it actually wasnt at all,
you just thought take piss out of a relatively small (at that time) scene.


i dont really give a **** what u write about hardcore, except ur tryin ur damn hardest to jump on the bandwagon when uve clearly never respected our scene at all.

SO THERE
; )





__________________________________
have you got some of this hardcore power?
let the bass beat louder....


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strychnine
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Australia
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  03:36:37  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit strychnine's homepage
Honestly, I've read quite a few posts from you guys about how you don't give a shit what people think of hardcore, and how much you don't want hardcore to become mainstream and commercial, yet here you are slagging off a (mainstream) dance-music magazine for publishing negative articles and features about hardcore.

Furthermore (and correct me if I'm wrong here), don't most of the offending articles refer to "happy hardcore", which you UK people insist is a different genre of music to the stuff being released now? Wouldn't it then be valid for Viv to argue that the current crop of hardcore is somehow 'better' or more credible than the genre that Mixmag slagged off before?

At the end of the day Mixmag will publish whatever's "interesting" to their readership. Don't expect any more or less, and unless you're one of their readers (aka customers) don't complain when they do exactly what they're supposed to.

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Edited by - strychnine on 2002/11/28 03:40:09
Viv @ Mixmag
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  04:28:14  Show profile  Send a private message
cheers strychnine

put more clearly that I could.

See, I don't mind a slating if you don't like the mag or don't like what we write, but I don't understand the mentality of "don't write about our scene at all".

elitism is a bad thing



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James D
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  04:57:00  Show profile  Send a private message
quote -
"happy hardcore", which you UK people insist is a different genre of music to the stuff being released now?

no, its is a progression of the sound isnt it.
just ppl used 'happy' hardcore as a way to try and justify its childishness.
hardcore is still hardcore, the happier sound did tend to have certain cheesy songs to it.
just because some of the songs had cheesy lyrics, does not justify an onslaught of piss taking.
just because the tunes made now are not as happy does not mean that ppl can appreciate gettin the piss taken then, but not now.

i have no interest in mixmag publishing hardcore articles, if it hadnt been for the cd i wud of never bought it, the cd was nice but at the same time they still managed to get their digs in (read bonkers review).
what gets me is their hypocricy.
ppl who read mixmag will have seen many a pisstake on the hardcore scene.
so one cd wont make any difference, in fact they prob wont even play it.
mixmag isnt sayin the current hardcore is better as they still takin pops at hardcore now.

id also like to point out, this in not channelled toward 'viv@mixmag', i have no problem with one persons view.
if she has only been there 6 months, she cant be blamed for the past.


the only thing that annoys me is their hypocricy.
they dont want to mention hardcore just with it 'comin back strong' at the minute they feel they should jump on the bandwagon.

strychnine can u understand my argument?
i dont agree with what you said entirely,

the thing which bothers me is takin piss for yrs then all of a sudden bangin out a cd because the bandwagon is rolling.....



__________________________________
have you got some of this hardcore power?
let the bass beat louder....


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djtommyrenegade
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  07:49:20  Show profile  Send a private message
1996, 1996, 1996, 1996, 1996!

nuff said, hardcore was at its peak, some good music was made, and it was hardcore,
nowadays, hardcore is becoming in a way like trance only speeded up, whatever happened to the smurf like voices, cheesy choons, and pumping bass,
hardcore is hardcore tho at the end of the day, but i'd rather have the old stuff,

freedom, ya gotta be free
to live your live the way you want it to be!


thomas crossley


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nick@mixmag
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  09:04:00  Show profile  Send a private message
On a lighter note - I wrote Hardcore's Will (page one of this forum) and I still think its funny today. Writing is meant to stir emotion and whether me caning HHC pisses you off or makes you laugh it has evoked a responce and thats what journalism (and music) is all about.
There are a lot of bitter people in this forum that fail to see that dance music is about having fun. Not being all serious and claiming scenes 'belong' to you.
If Viv allowed me to continue caning HHC I would. Remember a magazine - like a forum - is made up with lots of passionate people with lots of confilcting opinions. Mixmag is not a single entity and neither is HHC.




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strychnine
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Australia
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92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/11/28 :  13:02:42  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit strychnine's homepage
quote:
Originally posted by James D:
the only thing that annoys me is their hypocricy.
they dont want to mention hardcore just with it 'comin back strong' at the minute they feel they should jump on the bandwagon.

strychnine can u understand my argument?



Yeah James, I can understand your argument, and it's easy to see how you feel that way.

But the problem is, you all seem to be attacking Mixmag as an institution, when in fact (as Nick says) it's a composite of many different minds, different sets of values, etc. It's not just Mixmag, either; some people on this board attack genres of music in the same way. It's silly. Trance doesn't have a vendetta against us, nor is Mixmag "jumping on the bandwagon". They're not sentient beings; if you're gonna criticise, criticise the individual writers, producers, etc ...

One thing I'd like to take issue with: "just because the tunes made now are not as happy does not mean that ppl can appreciate gettin the piss taken then, but not now."

Yes, they can. HHC was once (validly) slagged off as being too cheesy, too childish, and we accepted it because it was based on truth. We won't accept the same criticism now, will we? You all insist it's different enough to be referred to by a different name - doesn't that difference also justify a difference in the way outsiders view the music?

And Nick of Mixmag, I think that your "Hardcore's Will" piece is f***ing funny. C'mon people, lighten up - if you can't laugh at yourselves, then who can you laugh at? No-one, that's who ... if you read that piece carefully and saw past the prima facie slating of HHC you'll see he also takes pot-shots at Trance, UKHH, Garage, and Progressive, as well as the rave/club scene in general.

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Soren
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United States
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Posted - 2002/12/02 :  06:30:23  Show profile  Send a private message
OK, well i'm pretty sick of this thread... but since this is an issue that ammuses me I'll continue to beat my head on the wall.

Viv:
quote:
ok, so Mixmag takes the piss out of hardcore, then writes about it as it gets more mainstream attention, then puts out a pretty good free cd.

I'd say that's accurate.

quote:
In return you call us the KKK, want to beat up my writers and overall react like overserious little children.

Wha? No one called you the KKK and you know it, was just an example posted of 2 "scenes" that don't get along great. And no one threatened to beat up your writers. Some people are acting overserious, but what would you do if someone slagged you off and then came up and said "hello, lets be friends"? I bet you'd still be upset too. Don't take people so seriously and try to concentrate on the core issues, if you ignore angry people that aren't saying anything productive then they will go away (hopefully).

quote:
For a scene that's really fun, you guys are really ****ing serious. Lighten up a bit - can't you take a bit of piss taking.

Lighten up? First Mixmag slags HHC off for years, then you come here and twist peoples words (see above), blatently lie, and start swearing and then tell us to calm down? Once again I say "Wha"?

quote:
If Mixmag is shit and no one in the scene respects it then whether we take the piss out of the scene or big it up would have no effect would it?
Except that lots of people believe everything they read. Some people said Mixmag is crappy, but that's not really the issue. The issue is that Mixmag slagged HHC and then all of a sudden likes it and no one has offered a formal printed appology. I really don't think that's asking too much. But maybe it is... i dunno? Why don't you tell me, is it asking too much or not?

quote:
your arguements not only don't stand up, but worse than that, it's quite sad that you're all getting so wound up by a dance music mag covering dance music. Either buy it or don't, it' simple.

It is that simple, that's why I told people not to buy your mag and to tell others not to buy it until you appologize. Funny you say our arguments don't stand up shortly after spouting lies and twisting peoples arguments, that's pretty sad. Some people are getting wound up, and you're one of them, so what? I think much of what has been said was valid, with some exceptions on both sides of the coin. As far as getting wound up goes you got all wound up when some people said ur mag sucks, but we aren't allowed to get wound up over your (Mixmags) 2 faced coverage of HHC and for saying HHC sucks? Nice double standards you've got. Just because people like HHC doesn't mean they can't have principals and get upset when someone slags them off and refuses to print a formal appology.

And how does absolutetly everything i've said not stand up? I want specific counterpoints for everything I've said and a good explanation of why nothing I've said stands up. I think it's pretty bold to just write off everything I and everyone else have said in one small statement, lets see you prove it. But I don't think you can cause you admitted to everything I've said in the first sentence I quoted above. Your "taking the piss out of hardcore" in the past is still the only real issue here.

quote:
See, I don't mind a slating if you don't like the mag or don't like what we write, but I don't understand the mentality of "don't write about our scene at all.
If you don't mind then why did you reply swearing up and down all over your post and then tell lies? The "don't write about the scene" mentality comes when you insult HHC for 8+ years and then one day say it's great. Most people (including me) would rather just have all you coorporate and popularist syndications keep away. Sorry if you think that's ridiculous, but it's just how I feel. Keep HHC "underground"... umm.. or something.

quote:
elitism is a bad thing.

That's a funny statement coming from the self professed masters of elitism. You say you can judge exactly what music is best at the moment and then feel empowered to lay your judgement upon the world as truth and fact. You say you know what is and what isn't good at every moment and try to swing the general populace in that direction with no care for the damage you may cause. You refuse to appologize when you are wrong and try to turn the blame back on us and then say elitism is bad. That's classic, too funny. "Jolly good show"

Nick:
quote:
On a lighter note - I wrote Hardcore's Will (page one of this forum) and I still think its funny today.

I think it's pretty funny too. Good job. But it's still (just one of many) examples of Mixmag slagging off HHC.

quote:
There are a lot of bitter people in this forum that fail to see that dance music is about having fun. Not being all serious and claiming scenes 'belong' to you.

There are a lot of bitter people in this world that insult others and the things they care about without ginving a damn about their feelings. This has nothing to do with people in the HHC "being to serious". People have every right to take this too seriously cause YOU slagged them all off for years. If we were the ones attacking Mixmag for years in a globally released mag then you could be mad at us, difference is we'd probably be nice enough to say "Yeah, we were a-holes, we're sorry" and you won't cause you all seem to be too pompous and arrogant to ever admit that you could do something wrong. Addressing the "being serious" issue again:

"It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt."

I guess Mixmag spouting years of insults hurt some people. Do you blame them? I don't. It's funny how when you guys spout garbage at us it's all just for fun, but then we just say it isn't right and all of a sudden you get all defensive and say we are wrong in what we are doing. Practice what you preach much?

quote:
If Viv allowed me to continue caning HHC I would.

Glad to hear that you stick to your guns. I respect that, but quite frankly it sounds like you are a horrible person to be writing about music.

quote:
Remember a magazine - like a forum - is made up with lots of passionate people with lots of confilcting opinions.Mixmag is not a single entity and neither is HHC.

Yes, but Mixmag has a single head editor and hence has much more control over its statements. As you plainly admit above you've been censored, we don't have that kind of control in the HHC scene but we still don't manage to tell everyone in the world that their scene sucks like Mixmag does.


Conclusion:

Mixmag continues to take the moral highground even though it seems pretty obvious to me they gave up that right many many years ago. Mixmag continues to refuse to address the real issues and still refuses to print an appolgy or offer one here or even acknowledge the issue. And now Viv has started swearing, spouting lies, and twisting previous HHC.com members posts. It's really quite silly. Mixmag: If you don't want to treat us like human beings, see that we have feelings, see that you have been total a-holes to the HHC scene in past years, or print an appology then fine, but why continue to post here? You aren't goning to win any fans with your self serving attitudes. Like you said, it's either buy the mag or don't. I say don't. I still think people should host that mix CD somewhere or start a CD tree to take business away from Mixmag. Tell your friends not to buy Mixmag, burn them all copies of the CD, and above all warn other people and scenes about Mixmag and get them to boycot it too.

-_SoReN_-

PS: If you think I'm being mean or trying to start a fight then read my post again and then compare it to the facts. I'm one of the last people in the world that will start a stupid fight, but I'm one of the first to stand up and fight when coorporate greed and stupidity comes after something I love. And as always this post is all just my opinion so take it as such please.

PPS: *Yawn* I'm tired... :D



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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain.


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Edited by - Soren on 2002/12/02 09:24:27



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