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Karthy
Senior Member
United Kingdom
337 posts
Joined: Jun, 2011
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 Posted - 2014/06/20 : 12:22:01
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
Why doesn't he just make this new style of music without making a huge deal of not making faster stuff?
Definately agree with this. I think he could have and would've gotten away with just changing it up and not making a big deal / announcing it all. Because really, the difference is minimal. If you like S3rl I imagine it's because you like his style of production, I don't see that changing, he's just dropping a few BPM's.
Personally I'm not too fussed, I'd hate to get stuck producing to a specific ruleset. I see why he's done it and I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. And as long as people to blow this completely out of context I doubt he'll have any problems coming from it either.
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2014/06/20 : 12:31:38
"Why a different BPM? I still like fast beats but don't want to be in the BPM range of hardcore for a few reasons; The main being that half my listeners put me the category they think suits (like Happy or UK Hardcore) and the other half complain because I've been put in a category they don't agree with. I've also had people tell me that I don't sound like UK or Happy Hardcore, so...? This way I'm in a relatively untouched genre/BMP range and can avoid all that."
My response: You're a moron, seriously wtf. The MAIN reason of wanting to do this is because you don't know what category you're in? You act like you want to be individual but are concerning yourself with other peoples opinions enough to change the tempo that you produce at.
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I honestly can't see the point of this, he's talking about producing the SAME sound just about 10bpm slower? Weird
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Bad Corey
Average Member
United States
235 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2014/06/20 : 13:19:02
You guys realize that for the point of mixing hardcore, this makes basically no difference right?
160 pitched up to 170 is as close as makes no difference to one semitone higher. So basically, if he writes a song in A Minor at 160, it can basically be mixed as a song that's A# Minor at 170 (which are pretty much the only keys he writes in anyways). It just means you can utilize his songs in different ways now.
I do think the post was a bit dramatic though.
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Free tracks and mixes: http://soundcloud.com/bad-corey
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Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/06/20 : 14:09:46
Who cares.
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"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
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versia
Average Member
Australia
180 posts
Joined: Oct, 2013
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Posted - 2014/06/20 : 14:10:35
quote:
Originally posted by Mortis:
Who cares.
Pretty sure 44K facebook followers care.
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Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/06/20 : 14:35:06
Really? I'm sure almost all of them will still like his music at the slightly slower bpm.
The whole thing is ridiculous. It's just another person doing a "I'm leaving (insert scene here)" just for attention. Why do that rather than just go ahead and do it. His fans will still listen to his music as they're fans of his style. Hardcore fans will listen on regardless of if he's making it or not.
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"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
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Edited by - Mortis on 2014/06/20 15:03:11 |
DJ Hellfury
Advanced Member
Austria
2,237 posts
Joined: Feb, 2007
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Posted - 2014/06/20 : 15:26:19
quote:
Originally posted by Mortis:
Really? I'm sure almost all of them will still like his music at the slightly slower bpm.
The whole thing is ridiculous. It's just another person doing a "I'm leaving (insert scene here)" just for attention. Why do that rather than just go ahead and do it. His fans will still listen to his music as they're fans of his style. Hardcore fans will listen on regardless of if he's making it or not.
this sums it up for me.
its not like he completely changed his music production, he just freed himself from genre boundaries and doesnt want to get called a hardcore producer anymore.
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Ken Masters
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,447 posts
Joined: Feb, 2007
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 00:17:03
This raises a question i've asked myself for a while now. Is modern Hardcore too fast?
It seems to be the norm for djs of this era to automatically pitch Hardcore up, thinking that anything under 180bpm isn't accepted as fast enough, but in doing so I think we've lost the groove.
Part of my love for Hardcore isn't in the kickdrum but more what happens between the kicks, you should be lost in the rhythm not chasing a fast kickdrum, that's soulless. I dont think enough people quite understand that & I strongly suggest leaving your hardcore at the tempo it was intended to be played at, anything over 175bpm is excessive in my opinion.
Check out the tempo of the early happy Hardcore tracks, understand the groove they create by keeping the tempo at a reasonable speed, many dont exceed 170bpm. Another example, take the majority of Scott Brown tracks, I guarantee that a huge percentage of djs that put his tracks into mixes automatically pitch it up, why? If this is how he intended his music to be heard then he would produce it at this speed.
There's major differences when it comes to these slight changes in tempo. Retrain your ears, dont fall victim to essentially ruining the music you love.
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Future State Music
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Edited by - Ken Masters on 2014/06/21 00:25:13 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 00:24:59
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Masters:
This raises a question i've asked myself for a while now. Is modern Hardcore too fast?
No. It to me sounded faster back in the day. It's not that hardcore these days is too fast, it's that there are more beats going on in one track that accompany the main riff. So there's more going on to a track now that maybe to some it sounds like there's too much going on, but honestly nothing is sped up.
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Ken Masters
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,447 posts
Joined: Feb, 2007
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 00:34:02
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Masters:
This raises a question i've asked myself for a while now. Is modern Hardcore too fast?
No. It to me sounded faster back in the day. It's not that hardcore these days is too fast, it's that there are more beats going on in one track that accompany the main riff. So there's more going on to a track now that maybe to some it sounds like there's too much going on, but honestly nothing is sped up.
I dont think its the tracks themselves that are faster but more the approach from modern djs. Endless mixes I listen to seem to be pushing 180bpm, you might get away with this with the odd track but musically it just sounds crap.
That said, I have to disagree about Hardcore being the same speed as it always has been. If you check tracks from around the mid 90's the average tempo is slower, some barely scrape the 170 mark, but they don't need too!
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Future State Music
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 00:47:25
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Masters:
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Masters:
This raises a question i've asked myself for a while now. Is modern Hardcore too fast?
No. It to me sounded faster back in the day. It's not that hardcore these days is too fast, it's that there are more beats going on in one track that accompany the main riff. So there's more going on to a track now that maybe to some it sounds like there's too much going on, but honestly nothing is sped up.
I dont think its the tracks themselves that are faster but more the approach from modern djs. Endless mixes I listen to seem to be pushing 180bpm, you might get away with this with the odd track but musically it just sounds crap.
That said, I have to disagree about Hardcore being the same speed as it always has been. If you check tracks from around the mid 90's the average tempo is slower, some barely scrape the 170 mark, but they don't need too!
Yea but you see you're talking about mixes though, when a track is mixed it ALWAYS is sped up compared to its original BPM of production, that has been no different in the past or the present. I'm saying a produced track sounds faster back then than it does now, yet there aren't that many differences in BPM.
Take Joey Riot's remix of Scott Brown's Wheels of Fortune. When he released it for preview on here I told him I liked it but would have liked it to be a little faster. The track is clocked at 170BPM though lol so it was pretty fast, yet I didn't find it to sound fast. Now listening to the original, I would say that the original sounds very fast, yet it's probably the same BPM or maybe even a bit slower. There just more going on in the new one as far as riffs, sounds, beats go than the more simplistic but equally entertaining original version.
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Ken Masters
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,447 posts
Joined: Feb, 2007
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 01:33:46
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Masters:
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Masters:
This raises a question i've asked myself for a while now. Is modern Hardcore too fast?
No. It to me sounded faster back in the day. It's not that hardcore these days is too fast, it's that there are more beats going on in one track that accompany the main riff. So there's more going on to a track now that maybe to some it sounds like there's too much going on, but honestly nothing is sped up.
I dont think its the tracks themselves that are faster but more the approach from modern djs. Endless mixes I listen to seem to be pushing 180bpm, you might get away with this with the odd track but musically it just sounds crap.
That said, I have to disagree about Hardcore being the same speed as it always has been. If you check tracks from around the mid 90's the average tempo is slower, some barely scrape the 170 mark, but they don't need too!
Yea but you see you're talking about mixes though, when a track is mixed it ALWAYS is sped up compared to its original BPM of production, that has been no different in the past or the present. I'm saying a produced track sounds faster back then than it does now, yet there aren't that many differences in BPM.
Take Joey Riot's remix of Scott Brown's Wheels of Fortune. When he released it for preview on here I told him I liked it but would have liked it to be a little faster. The track is clocked at 170BPM though lol so it was pretty fast, yet I didn't find it to sound fast. Now listening to the original, I would say that the original sounds very fast, yet it's probably the same BPM or maybe even a bit slower. There just more going on in the new one as far as riffs, sounds, beats go than the more simplistic but equally entertaining original version.
You may be right there, more going on in the track may well give the illusion of a faster track. I decided to do a very random test of tracks throughout the era's. I will stress, this is pretty ruff & i'm about to go to bed haha but this clearly shows the progression of BPM's throughout the years.
I opened folders & randomly grabbed tracks that I felt best represented the era's then checked each tempo. This is not to say that some hardcore didn't exceed 180bpm in the 90's, far from it! but as an average...
90's-
Sy & Unknown - Cape Fear - 170bpm
Eruption & Seduction - Bust the new Jam - 164bpm
DJ Chewy - Rock this place - 170bpm
El Bruto - Hypnotising - 170bpm
Kinetic Pleasure - Higher - 166bpm
Brisk & Trixxy - Back to the top - 174bpm
Bang the Future - Body Slam (gbt inc another level remix) - 170bpm
Scott Brown & Rab S - Now is the time - 160bpm
Alchemist & Fade - Keep on trying (slipmatt remix) - 174bpm
Demo - Your mine ( slipmatt remix) - 170bpm
= 168.8bpm
2000's-
Scott Brown - I Became Hardcore - 170bpm
Fergus Mayhem - Take Control (CLSM Remix) - 170bpm
Scott Brown - Life as We Know It - 172bpm
Scott Brown - Gods Child - 170bpm
CLSM feat Ant Johnson - Sensory Vision Pt 2 - 170bpm
Marc Smith & Gammer Building Shaker - 176bpm
Duncan Oatham - Rock The Disco (K Complex Remix) - 170bpm
Fracus & Darwin - Realms & Rough Cuts (Original Mix) - 172bpm
Lumin8 ? Rivers Flow In You - 175bpm
Makio - Crush - 176bpm
= 172.1bpm
2010's
Marc Smith - Drumbeatz - 176bpm
Marc Smith - Marc Smith & Gammer Crank - 176bpm
Kevin Energy & Douglas - Chop Suey (Original Mix) - 170bpm
Gammer_-_Nostalgia - 170bpm
Nick 235 & Solution - Feeling Kinda Strange (Kevin Energy's Strange Dark Remix) - 172bpm
Ready For War - Joey Riot vs DJ Ganah - 170bpm
Scott Brown - Don't Doubt - 170bpm
Marc Smith - **** It! - 176bpm
Scott Brown - Enchantment - 170bpm
Transcend - Mind Glow - 172bpm
= 172.2bpm
It's clear to see that the average tempo certainly has been raised over the years, however this test also backs up my original point, why in the hell are we pushing tempo's of these tracks past 180bpm? Even Scott Brown's newest tracks don't exceed 170bpm, surely such a drastic change in tempo is taking something away from the vision he has for the track?
Latin - You rightly said that it's not the tracks that are intended to reach these sort's of tempo's but the DJs that are playing them. Why do they feel the need to pitch it up? I've heard plenty of mixes from the 90's era that are guilty of doing the same, but in general, this type of thing is rife now. Uneducated people that have got into the scene due to the fast tempo completely missing the fact that when they over pitch everything they are killing the rhythm. Again, just to be clear, that's not to say that Hardcore can't work at this tempo but it will be produced to work at higher tempos. When you have a track that's produced by someone as talented as Scott Brown being pushed +10bpm over it's original tempo, your just ruining it for yourself & anyone else who listens.
Retrain your ears.
In trying not to detour from the topic too much.....S3rl isn't making 'Fast Dance music', he's basically taking it back to how it began, i'm not sure if this is intentional but that's basically what hes doing. Just look at the tempo of the original 'Now Is The Time'......160bpm. It was cool to see that Gammer's Nostalgia doesn't exceed 170bpm either, these tracks just shouldn't reach 180bpm.
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Future State Music
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Edited by - Ken Masters on 2014/06/21 01:52:56 |
skankineddie666
Junior Member
United States
98 posts
Joined: Nov, 2012
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 04:02:54
S3RL is one of my favorite but that post was pretty pointless.
Its just like when Modulate said he was quitting hardcore and focusing on his Rocket Pimp project....Same music different Speed....
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wong
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,991 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 13:13:05
'these tracks just shouldn't reach 180bpm'
Bollocks, they sound fine at that speed. And no i dont need to retrain my ears. There's no right or wrong
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,073 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/06/21 : 14:01:46
most of the mixes I have heard by big time DJ's (which is ofcourse only a few) have been like 180+ ****ing hell alot of the happy hardcore stuff wher almost 190. So no, not alot DJ's I know of play them at original speeds. And to be honest, I can't listen to hardcore unless it's 180 or above. I exclude Dopeman tho, his stuff is just way to quick :P
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2014/06/21 14:03:06 |
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S3RL's gone
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