CDJay Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 08:31:59
TBH I can't see us using crowd funding again anytime soon, we've always held it in our heads as a one shot deal.
Evidence? We'd originally spent a few months setting up a Kickstarter campaign tail end of 2013. Project? Bonkers 18. Fell apart, despite my best efforts, at the end as major players wanted to wait and see if Clubland Xtreme was going to happen.
So, kids, you aren't *just* backing a project here. This is a public facing critique/validation of HU and it having a voice at the table going forward.
latininxtc Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts Joined: Feb, 2006
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 09:38:14
quote:Originally posted by CDJay:
TBH I can't see us using crowd funding again anytime soon, we've always held it in our heads as a one shot deal.
Evidence? We'd originally spent a few months setting up a Kickstarter campaign tail end of 2013. Project? Bonkers 18. Fell apart, despite my best efforts, at the end as major players wanted to wait and see if Clubland Xtreme was going to happen.
So, kids, you aren't *just* backing a project here. This is a public facing critique/validation of HU and it having a voice at the table going forward.
CDJay
An official Bonkers 18 would have been badass, but IMO it doesn't make sense for HU to be the one to make it because the Hardcore Underground series has turned to a modern version of the Bonkers series, except with much more diversity in styles and producers featured on the album.
CDJay Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 09:51:47
I saw the increased polarisation of the scene happening, and our continuation of being maligned. As much as HU7 is, now, all there is left it doesn't have the same stature or wide acceptance as something like Bonkers could/would. There are *still* segments of the now tiny UK scene intent on ignoring HU and anything related to it.
Bonkers 18 could have quite literally spared the scene two years of decline and despondancy. United the factions, showcased the genre. Basically HU7, but two years ago.
Also, who else would you actually trust to do it at this point?
Ikstra Junior Member
United Kingdom
85 posts Joined: Jul, 2014
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 11:32:00
I'm not a film geek, so sorry if I'm completely off the mark with this (casual googling says that DVD doesn't support 60p):
The original kickstarter intro video looks like it's filmed at a higher fps than the typical 24 for films. This looks 'off' to me and I doubt I'd be able to get used to it.
I'm aware that films are starting to transition to HFR, and definitely wouldn't want to hinder the overall quality of the release because I'm stuck in the past.
That being said: What fps is the DVD/Blu Ray planned to be provided at, and if it's provided as a HFR release would it be simple for me (with a PC) to reduce the frame rate to 24fps?
CDJay Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 11:53:46
You bring up an interesting point!
The KS pledge video was shot on an action cam, which, obviously, won't be employed for shooting HTID USA. I would hazard a guess the framerate was 60.
Now we *are* targetting a 4k/60 (IE HFR) workflow, but obviously that isn't suitable for the blu-ray/DVD. The final blu-ray will be at 1080i/30, and the DVD will be at 480i/30. This is the best match for how we're planning on shooting whilst leaving us with useable assets for UHD down the road. I would imagine on a computer there are various ways to frameskip to 24fps if you so chose although I don't think you'd suffer much of the "Soap Opera Effect" at 30 with the sort of filming done here. Bear in mind that DVDs don't support 24fps, anyway, so you either had 3:2 pulldown on NTSC (480) or a 4% speedup of 24fps material with PAL (576). Yes, that's right, all DVDs actually speed up films in the UK by 4%. Ditto TV broadcasts of films. We're used to it, but it seriously freaks out Americans when they visit!
That all said, I'm a huge proponent of HFR; I've been a PC gamer for far too long to think that sticking to a frame rate decided on nearly 100 years ago (as the minimum for "motion" to look okay) is a good idea. The majority of modern TVs can't convincingly do black frame insertion, which would mimic the CRT displays of yore, which means that percieved motion resolution takes a huge hit. HFR goes a long way to solving that, and whilst in infancy (let's face it, almost all cinematography has been built around 24/25/30fps for years) it'll be the norm before long. 4k Broadcast specs gestating worldwide almost all moot either 100 or 120fps!
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 13:22:04
I was also wondering something like that
I have a 4k tv, I've no idea what to do with it...nothing for a few years I suppose; bit of a silly purchase when you think about..by the time 4k blu rays are the norm etc I could have just bought a cheaper better 4k tv when that happens.
CDJay Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 13:46:30
Well, much as with "HD Ready" tvs back in the day (sub 1080p) you still get a lot of benefit in terms of increased resolution.
The biggest leap with the move to UHD isn't actually resolution, for years and years the ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) have rated displays with the idea that it is contrast which is the highest factor in image quality. The latest (and I do mean very very latest, and expensive) sets support a few key things:
10 bit color: A 10 bit color panel is capable of displaying up to 1.03 billion colors. An 8 bit panel is limited to 16.7 million. Sounds like a lot, but when it comes to displaying color graduations 8 bit isn't really enough. For film it's taken in at a workflow level and mitigated, but if you ever wondered why in computer games you sometimes see banding in dark areas or areas of variation in tone within a specific color... that's why.
The monitor we are using for editing is a Dell UltraSharp 27 Ultra HD 5K Monitor ? UP2715K. It is, unsuprisingly, a 10 bit capable display. It uses the same panel as the Retina iMacs, but without a laptop tethered to it. We are also using a GPU capable of outputting 10bit color, which OSX can't do. Needless to say, no-one will be grading any 4k broadcast or UHD Blu-ray material on a Mac.
HDR: This is going to get called a lot of different things, by a lot of different manufacturers. In the update about the camera, I fixated a bit on the Red camera being able to do a phenomenal job with low light detail, and dynamic range. HDR is the same thing on the display side. For *years* most things have been color graded with a low dynamic range and limited color pallete in line with the capabilities of CRT projectors and displays. The latest 4k panels will have peak brightness, and local dimming, which enables a quantum leap in contrast and dynamic range. This is the big selling point of 4k, not resolution. Once you've seen HDR footage on a decent display (Fox have been supplying a regraded "Life of Pi" from USB for most trade shows) every other TV or cinema you look at will look lifeless and flat. It's a big deal. The cinema equivilant is something like Dolby Vision (also filtering down to consumers) or the newest IMAX laser projectors which should be in a few cinemas UK wise by the tail end of the year.
Color gamut: This is a combination of the above two. You may have, at some point, seen a block of various colors with a triangle across them. This shows color gamut/coverage. The latest 4k TVs are in line with the newest UHD Blu-ray spec which will allow FAR greater coverage of color and graduations therein.
Framerate: As Ikstra mentioned, there've been a few (but not many) High FrameRate films released. Most Notably "The Hobbit" films, but Avatar 2 will be the same. Really this is more interesting for concert/documentary/sport coverage as the bulk of existing content isn't show in this manner.
As great as that 5k monitor is, for our purposes, it won't be suitable for color grading to UHD spec for future use. That's ignoring the fact that proper color grading gear is catastrophically expensive, and we just aren't experienced in it. That's the last bit of the chain, where we will have to hand off to a third party.
The good news there, is that the guy we've got in mind to do it is currently working on "The Jungle Book" for Disney. Just sayin'
CDJay Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 13:49:15
Oh, also, missed the obivous thing. Same as when 1080p came along, the best use for a 4k display is PC Gaming. Although you'll need a ridiculous setup for it to be a good idea at present. Also is ideal if your TV supports 4:4:4 color at 4k/60.
By next year you'll see a die shrink on graphics card chipsets, and even a mid range card will be able to handle 4k gaming smoothly.
DJ Fracus Average Member
United Kingdom
177 posts Joined: May, 2002
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 14:39:01
quote:Originally posted by CDJay: Evidence? We'd originally spent a few months setting up a Kickstarter campaign tail end of 2013. Project? Bonkers 18. Fell apart, despite my best efforts.
quote:Originally posted by _Jay_:
You thought about using KickStarter for financing events?
Apart from our time spent in meetings, and the prep work, at least that idea crashing cost us nothing. Well, the Brunel Rooms too, but nothing else ;) Anyway I'm glad it worked out the way it did and we got to use KS for the first time on this instead, but I don't think it's something that's right to use for events, not smaller scale anyway. We *might* just do some things soon on that front anyway later in the year ;)
HU, LT & HTIDUSA Blu The Roof Kickstarter Project
Printer friendly
Posted - 2015/08/20 : 05:53:15
