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DjZelous Advanced Member
United States
553 posts Joined: Oct, 2012
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 05:43:22
One of my Brothers live in Orlando (I live in miami which is a 4 hour drive from orlando) and happens to be bi. I woke up to check my facebook and nearly shat myself, i called him up making sure he was ok. he was thankfully. But some arent that lucky. This is getting ridiculous, 50 people dead in under 2 mins. thats some shit. people were saying that the gunman was shooting to the beat of the music. I shudder as i type that. just imagine if we were at a hardcore event and you hear gunshots at 180 bpm while we are having the time of our lives, and in 1 second, your dead. Im one that did not believe in banning guns here in the US but it has to be done. i understand we have gun rights and stuff but it has to be done. this shit only happens here. I havent heard of a mass shooting in the Dominican Republic EVER, And i will admit violence is an issue over there. but what can we do really even with a gun ban psychos will find a way to get their hand on a gun. now i need to vent out somthing else, I live in an extremely Homophobic family, Dominicans have a slang for gay people called "Pajaros" Which translates to "Birds". When they heard of the news, my dad comes up to me and says " Wow there must be a lot of feathers to clean up in there" I wanted to ex-****en-plode, (but i need to pretend to be homophobic or you could imagine the stuff that would break out in my house) So i laugh about it... worst feeling ever. Rant done. My thoughts go out to the families of the affected And may the ones who passed Rest in peace
Now if you guys were in charge of the US, What would you do to stop this from happening. I'd Love to know.
Peace.
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 07:23:51
What would I do?
There isn't a whole bunch anyone can do.
The only difference "banning guns" would end up making would be an ideological difference, and it is clear that the US is in a majority in favouring "gun rights" so "should we ban guns?" seems like a moot point.
Alcohol kills something like 3000 people a year in the UK via drink driving alone, without taking into account the other deaths that can arise from it's consumption. It's deadly, as a society we haven't banned it as people overwhelmingly want to drink it despite it's dangers. We live with the consequences (the deaths) of making that legal.
It's too easy for people to draw comparisons between the UK and the USA, but it's a silly/reckless thing to do. We're a small island, surrounded by water with a population who are entirely and vastly disinterested in guns. The only time we ever talk about guns is when there has been a shooting in the US. What seems to "work" over here wouldn't "work" over there.
I suppose If I was in charge over there I would pump more money into mental health charities and raising awareness around the issues that have sparked the killings to happen in the first place. The world as a whole can do a lot more about mental health; that isn't a US only issue.
RIP to those who lost their lives and condolences to the families and those who knew them.
trippnface Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts Joined: Jan, 2010
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 15:14:36
Glad your bro is ok.
IMO ; this problem was a direct result of Islamic extremism. People did not lose their lives due to an individual with a true mental imbalance or psychological breakdown; ( unless we want to argue organized religion IS a psychological breakdown) . This man murdered gay people; literally; for his religion. This kind of religious extremism needs to be banned; removed; and eliminated. If this is what Muslims believe; then they need to decide if they are " Americans" or "Muslims" . Being born in a country really does not make you "American; or German; or French; etc " ... that just make that person their real genetic heritage; living in another country. I can never be a German because I am not German. If I am born their; that does not make me a German. A middle eastern muslim born in America; is just a middle eastern Muslim born in America. That is what THEY; choose to distinguish themselves as... and freely.. so they should be ready to be treated as such. I am not bigoted or racist; but it is far past time we start acknowledging these distinguished instances as reality across the globe.
Islam does not rule here; if they want to abide by Islam they should leave the US; or any other country that does not want to be involved in their dystopian antiquated trash mumbo jumbo.
I do not see this as a gun problem at all honestly. For the amount of weapons in the US; and the amount of people killed.... it is infinitesimally small. I am sure the government wishes Americans were not so well armed. Unfortunately they are 200 years too late to ever do anything; unless they want a civil war.
The only problem is the FBI failing to arrest this terrorist years ago when it was clear he was an extremist. Our government has failed us again. I do no think for a moment they don't purposefully create all this strife.... The world powers are a nasty bunch.
But that's something the US citizen have to decide for themselves. If they accept a few thousand deaths per year in exchange for their freedom to bear arms then it's their choice. It's much like cars. They kill a few thousand each year, but the mobility is valued higher.
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 17:31:59
I'd start by saying trippnface is absolutely correct about the relative amount of guns to gun deaths, but has tripped up on his logic by not applying the same to Muslims and Muslim related deaths in the USA.
I'd secondly say that what trippnface said about peoples "real genetic heritage" is a shining example of how America is forgetting itself.
I'm sitting here blinking, pretty stunned to hear an American who surely should know how the USA came to be write a sentence like
"A middle eastern muslim born in America; is just a middle eastern Muslim born in America."
seriously though...
You're trolling, right? To lick the arse of the 2nd Amendment whilst pissing on the first (with regards to freedom of religion) and simultaneously forgetting America's founding history and what America stands for? It's a melting pot.
I think you'll find Christians and Muslims in the USA and across the world who find homosexuality a sin and disgusting, but the majority don't do anything about it. Only takes a second to hop on google to find a couple of christian nuts who have killed gays or prostitutes in the USA because it is regarded as a sin in their religion. Better knuckle down on all those Christians too. ;)
Christ how am I the only one standing up for first and second amendment...who's the American here? I only lived there for 5 years and I'm more patriotic for you than you! :P
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 18:00:59
I don't mean to rail on you, man. I just don't like seeing the US talked down like a scared little poodle, which is kinda how your making it look. The constitution is great, it allows for the 3.3 million muslims there at the moment to practice their religion peacefully, but your warped understanding of it (much like his warped understanding of it) endangers the very heart of America.
djDMS Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 22:07:29
My tab crashed before I got to post what I was going to write - probably a good job because I don't fancy getting angry with anybody tonight.
I'll just say this though.
Less guns = less guns in the wrong hands to kill people.
__________________________________
Taking my time to perfect the beat
latininxtc Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts Joined: Feb, 2006
Posted - 2016/06/14 : 07:50:25
Alright bitches, I'm here to save a certain someone from his beyond fucking stupid comments.
First off, Zelous the best advice I can give you is get a job, save money, and move out of that home. There's a reason why your bisexual brother lives 4 hours away, away from Miami of all places. Since you don't agree with your family's homophobia, the longer you stay there the more it will take a toll on you, and the more you'll resent them. The sooner you get out of the situation, the less chance you'll grow to resent the bunch of cunts for their ass backwards views.
Trippnface I love how you claim not to be a bigot or racist, yet your views are exactly that, bigoted and racist. A lot of what you say is not too far off from what white supremacist groups have said in the past, or even currently say.
You seem to forget that this country is made up of nothing but immigrants. True descendants of America, which we refer to as Native Americans, account for only about 1% or less of today's Americans. I highly doubt you are one. A lot of current Americans love to celebrate their heritage because it's part of who they are, regardless if they were born there or whether or not they still have any familial connection to that country or region. The idea of assimilation to what you think being American is supposed to be is ludicrous, especially the diversity of this country that is brought by immigration is what makes this country so great.
And another thing that makes this country great is our first amendment, which gives us the freedom of expression, the freedom of speech, and the freedom of religion. That doesn't apply to just the freedom of Christian religions, that applies to EVERY religion, including Islam. Muslims make up almost 25% of the world's population, making it the 2nd most popular religion in the world, but only about 1% of the US population. However, freedoms are not without its restrictions. The freedom of speech doesn't allow you to scream fire into a packed movie theater when there is no fire, and it doesn't allow for any religion to discriminate an individual or infringe on anyone's rights. Although the US is mostly made up of Christians, that doesn't mean that is the ruling religion of this country. We have no official religion, and because of our first amendment it's going to stay that way. People seem to forget that not only was this country "founded" and colonized due to freedom of religion, but it was also "founded" and colonized due to freedom FROM religion.
Now onto the incident at hand. From the information that everyone was finding in the first 24 hours, this was believed to be a mass shooting due to Islamic extremism/terrorism. The guy was Muslim and called 911 declaring his loyalty to ISIS during the incident. However, new information in the last 12 hours has emerged showing this is more complicated than we thought. When the news stations kept repeating that Mateen's father said Omar was enraged seeing two guys kissing and that he beat the crap out of his ex wife, I had this sinking feeling that perhaps this guy was a closet case that just couldn't handle the inner turmoil of his sexuality and his religion and culture. Turns out, I might actually be right.
In the last 12 hours news stations have reported that there were a lot of patrons from Pulse Nightclub, the place of the massacre, that said they recognized him prior to Saturday night and he's been estimated to have frequented the place at least a dozen times. Some news stations are guessing that he might have been going in there to scope out the place, but other evidence suggests otherwise. There have also been people who have come forward saying they communicated with him on gay social apps like Grindr and Jack'd. One person even admitted to running into him on the street, but didn't say anything to each other besides acknowledging that they recognized each other from one of those apps. There has even been a guy who came forward as one of his police academy classmates and said a lot of the classmates including Omar went to several gay bars together after classes and he even asked this guy out.
Does any of this new information matter? To some people and some of those in the media and politics it won't because they'll still view this as an Islamic terrorism/extremism situation, which I believe is not completely accurate. This information matters because if this guy did indeed have sexual feelings for men it's an example of what religion is capable of doing to a man, or woman, with these types of feelings. Religion and its policies can torture someone to suicide, or in this case to react violently.
This isn't just exclusive to Islam, this type of religious torture also comes from various forms of christian religions, secular Judaism, Mormonism, Hinduism, etc. And when you combine this with the power that religious politicians have, it's just making things worse. Ever since our Supreme Court declared any type of gay marriage ban unconstitutional and made gay marriage, not just civil unions, legal in all 50 states, there has been over 200 anti-LGBT bills proposed in the United states, with some already being signed into law. These politicians are further fueling the hate towards the LGBT community by continuing to try and deny them their rights, MY rights, and making them feel so unwelcome in their own country. It can drive a closeted individual to suicide, or worse, murder suicide.
Let's not forget, this isn't the only anti-LGBT incident that happened Sunday morning. Not sure if this got a lot of coverage outside of the US, but police officers in California prevented a potential mass shooting that would have taken place during Los Angeles' gay pride parade. They stopped a vehicle containing several assault rifles, ammunition, and possible explosives. The guy who was driving it was a white male from Indiana. If the Orlando incident never happened, but this LA one did, what argument would you make as the cause and solution if Islam played no role in that incident?
Trippnface you seem to avoid making the connection that EVERY mass shooting taken place in the US for the last 20 years has had, and that's guns. You can't blame it all on Islam, because the Columbine school shooting, the Sandy Hook shooting, the Aurora movie theater shooting, the Charleston church shooting, the Virginia Tech shooting, etc. had nothing to do with Islam. Guns have become too easily accessible, and there are guns that are far too deadly and unnecessary to have on the market. No one for any reason needs an assault rifle/weapon or semi-automatic weapon/rifle when a regular handgun does a good job of protecting yourself or a hunting rifle is enough to bring down game.
And there is nothing wrong with demanding stricter gun control laws. I'm not calling for a complete repeal of the 2nd Amendment because I do believe people have a right to protect themselves and I know that repeal would never happen. But there is nothing wrong with having stricter gun control that would ban such powerful firearms, keep a closer eye on who is buying these weapons, how much of these weapons and ammunition they're buying, restricting certain people from buying these weapons due to mentally incapable of handling the responsibility of a gun or if you are flagged as a potential danger, and requiring everyone to be fully trained and licensed to even have a gun, NOT just a concealed handgun license. If you have to get a drivers license to prove that you know how to operate a vehicle, then you should have a license to prove you know how to properly use a gun responsibly.
Elipton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts Joined: Apr, 2013
Posted - 2016/06/14 : 22:46:05
I've been listening to various gun debates and discussion around Orlando today.
It just feels to me that the US is deeply broken with it's culture of guns. You can't take them away, so they'll always be a problem. The 2D arguments for keeping them just perplex most of us in Europe.
There's gun crime, so give people more guns? Is that really considered as a solution?
That's like one country having nukes, so every country should have nukes to protect themselves. Should we check their history? No of course not.
Do I think it was a homophobic attack? Most likely, but the rate at which the world is accepting homosexuality and LGBT+ is revolutionary. In the past 20 years, a lot of people have been liberated from feeling like freaks or bad people because of modern law and social evolution. Rightly so too. Therefore, I don't think this should be seen as a homophobic attack. He apparently pledged his allegiance to ISIS, we all became his enemy - and we're already the enemy of countless others.
The main issue is guns. Big guns. Small guns. What does it matter? Guns are used to kill, and when there's so much social discord in America between conservative Americans, between white or black supremacists or whether people are just snapping and lashing out, having guns makes the outcome of that discord so much worse. There's a lot of issues in London, but if there's a knife crime, it's one person who gets hurt. The terrorist who injured a person on the underground had a knife, not a gun.
Ban, for example, all automatic and semi-automatic firearms with a fire rate of over 40 rounds per minute.
The only guns left are in the hands of criminals. They're much harder for criminals to find so the black market price will rocket.
That higher price will reduce demand.
Every firearm sold will reduce the supply.
Supply and demand of the firearms will eventually wither down.
Then, you do the same to high caliper shotguns.
Then you can work on handguns.
_________________________________________________
It's a process that would take many years, but the problem is so deeply rooted, it will have to take years. The culture is so strongly based on guns that there would be uproar if there was an instant blanket ban.
It worked in the UK. Worked in Australia. The statistics are rather easy to find, why is it such a complex topic to make sense of for pro-gun campaigners?
That said, there's a known saying. You can never have justice on stolen land.
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2016/06/14 : 23:05:17
without getting into a long and bloated conversation about how it simply wouldn't work in the US due to the consistent trafficking of weapons between them and Mexico, the mass amount of guns already there and the fact most people want guns...
The simple answer to Eliptons post is that quite simply it doesn't matter.
The majority of people want guns and will live with the consequences.
"I don't think this should be seen as a homophobic attack"
o.o
Jesus, I thought these forums couldn't get any worse. lol.
DjZelous Advanced Member
United States
553 posts Joined: Oct, 2012
Posted - 2016/06/15 : 07:29:31
yeah, i agree with elipton, gun culture here is insane. if we were to outlaw guns here, a war would start, no joke. removing guns from american culture is like someone trying to take my vinyl collection (it aint gon happen homeboy). gun culture is rooted into american culture in my opinion. But come on elipton, this had to be a homophobic attack, people were saying that he was secretly gay and had an account on grindr. his religious beliefs might have been contradicting his sexual nature and you could imagine how this went down in his mind
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2016/06/15 : 09:37:10
As much as I don't agree with Owen Jones on many points, he was right when he got pissed at Sky News who were trying to spin it the same way, he stormed off set.
Anarchy Breed New Member
United Kingdom
22 posts Joined: Jun, 2016
Posted - 2016/06/15 : 15:47:40
First of all, I think the entire thing is equal parts disgusting and shocking, and condolences to your brother and anybody that has been through this. This is literal nightmare juice, you wouldn't even hear the gunshots and if you did then you'd be too disoriented to really react.
From a purely pragmatic point of view though, there isn't really much that can be done without massive restrictions on rights that will impact everybody. Throughout history there has been murdering under the banner of one thing or another, frequently it's related to religion but there are many other reasons this happens.
You can say "Gun Control" but that doesn't work, criminals will get guns if they want guns and with America's historical love of weapons you'd probably cause an uprising while trying to implement such controls anyway.
You could say "more intense searches on entry" but the TSA already ruined air travel, very few people want to get frisked as they're moving around living their day to day lives and it would be another instance of grossly annoying restrictions on innocent individuals for the possibility of catching the 0.000001% who've probably got a backup plan anyway.
Some of the hyperbole coming out of America (cough, Trump) about "first generation Americans" and bla bla bla, dude - your country is less than 400 years old, none of you are actually "American" and your ancestry confirms it. It's not about religion, or where you were born, or your interests, or your gender, or your sexual preferences, or the games you play, or the music you listen to. Extremism is exactly that - the slither of a minority ****ing everything up for everybody else. There's nothing you can really do to counter that without basically letting them win anyway...
Alert moderatorEdited by - Anarchy Breed on 2016/06/15 15:48:04
trippnface Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts Joined: Jan, 2010
Posted - 2016/06/15 : 20:51:00
quote:Originally posted by Triquatra:
I'd start by saying trippnface is absolutely correct about the relative amount of guns to gun deaths, but has tripped up on his logic by not applying the same to Muslims and Muslim related deaths in the USA.
I'd secondly say that what trippnface said about peoples "real genetic heritage" is a shining example of how America is forgetting itself.
I'm sitting here blinking, pretty stunned to hear an American who surely should know how the USA came to be write a sentence like
"A middle eastern muslim born in America; is just a middle eastern Muslim born in America."
seriously though...
You're trolling, right? To lick the arse of the 2nd Amendment whilst pissing on the first (with regards to freedom of religion) and simultaneously forgetting America's founding history and what America stands for? It's a melting pot.
I think you'll find Christians and Muslims in the USA and across the world who find homosexuality a sin and disgusting, but the majority don't do anything about it. Only takes a second to hop on google to find a couple of christian nuts who have killed gays or prostitutes in the USA because it is regarded as a sin in their religion. Better knuckle down on all those Christians too. ;)
Christ how am I the only one standing up for first and second amendment...who's the American here? I only lived there for 5 years and I'm more patriotic for you than you! :P
I understand; and expect shit for my stance if not well explained....
From my perspective; Americans have no real cultural identity.
America is land our ancestors/ predecessors stole through imperializing and genocide.
There is nothing to be proud of. America was to be the great melting pot; the land where national identity could be forgotten in favor of a more unified one. Though through this effort of seeking unity; it crushed out most senses of national/genetic identity influenced through heritage; such as You lucky Europeans still have.
I am Italian; Colombian; Russian; etc.... Americas are mutts. American is an idea; not a real genetic claim. So I expect "Americans" to act in the unified manner this country wishes it actually portrayed itself; right? . We have thrown our genetic cultural identities away. Muslims who refuse to throw away Islam; I can never truly consider American. They put their faith before their country.
While I agree we can find bigotry expressed across the board in various faiths; ( and no doubt Christianity has much to atone for ) Islam though is currently in the hot spot; and most western Christians are far past these kinds of malicious acts. Usually.
I really wish all people could express their religious faith peacefully; but it is starting to become painfully clear to me that Islam is not conducive or compatible; with much of western culture at large; when the melting pot is now being even more fully expressed; for various reasons...
I am also painfully aware of the US interference in the middle east and the involvement to such a degree that many of these global problems ; and ones at home; are a direct result of the US government & military influence spanning the globe... once again; imperializing & committing genocide....
I love my country; I HATE my government ;p
I hope that cleared up some perceived inconsistencies; that is about as close to my truthful interpretation as I could give.
"Christ how am I the only one standing up for first and second amendment...who's the American here? I only lived there for 5 years and I'm more patriotic for you than you! :P "
LOL ****ing awesome <3
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Alert moderatorEdited by - trippnface on 2016/06/15 20:52:01
trippnface Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts Joined: Jan, 2010
Posted - 2016/06/15 : 21:02:21
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
Alright bitches, I'm here to save a certain someone from his beyond fucking stupid comments.
First off, Zelous the best advice I can give you is get a job, save money, and move out of that home. There's a reason why your bisexual brother lives 4 hours away, away from Miami of all places. Since you don't agree with your family's homophobia, the longer you stay there the more it will take a toll on you, and the more you'll resent them. The sooner you get out of the situation, the less chance you'll grow to resent the bunch of cunts for their ass backwards views.
Trippnface I love how you claim not to be a bigot or racist, yet your views are exactly that, bigoted and racist. A lot of what you say is not too far off from what white supremacist groups have said in the past, or even currently say.
You seem to forget that this country is made up of nothing but immigrants. True descendants of America, which we refer to as Native Americans, account for only about 1% or less of today's Americans. I highly doubt you are one. A lot of current Americans love to celebrate their heritage because it's part of who they are, regardless if they were born there or whether or not they still have any familial connection to that country or region. The idea of assimilation to what you think being American is supposed to be is ludicrous, especially the diversity of this country that is brought by immigration is what makes this country so great.
And another thing that makes this country great is our first amendment, which gives us the freedom of expression, the freedom of speech, and the freedom of religion. That doesn't apply to just the freedom of Christian religions, that applies to EVERY religion, including Islam. Muslims make up almost 25% of the world's population, making it the 2nd most popular religion in the world, but only about 1% of the US population. However, freedoms are not without its restrictions. The freedom of speech doesn't allow you to scream fire into a packed movie theater when there is no fire, and it doesn't allow for any religion to discriminate an individual or infringe on anyone's rights. Although the US is mostly made up of Christians, that doesn't mean that is the ruling religion of this country. We have no official religion, and because of our first amendment it's going to stay that way. People seem to forget that not only was this country "founded" and colonized due to freedom of religion, but it was also "founded" and colonized due to freedom FROM religion.
Now onto the incident at hand. From the information that everyone was finding in the first 24 hours, this was believed to be a mass shooting due to Islamic extremism/terrorism. The guy was Muslim and called 911 declaring his loyalty to ISIS during the incident. However, new information in the last 12 hours has emerged showing this is more complicated than we thought. When the news stations kept repeating that Mateen's father said Omar was enraged seeing two guys kissing and that he beat the crap out of his ex wife, I had this sinking feeling that perhaps this guy was a closet case that just couldn't handle the inner turmoil of his sexuality and his religion and culture. Turns out, I might actually be right.
In the last 12 hours news stations have reported that there were a lot of patrons from Pulse Nightclub, the place of the massacre, that said they recognized him prior to Saturday night and he's been estimated to have frequented the place at least a dozen times. Some news stations are guessing that he might have been going in there to scope out the place, but other evidence suggests otherwise. There have also been people who have come forward saying they communicated with him on gay social apps like Grindr and Jack'd. One person even admitted to running into him on the street, but didn't say anything to each other besides acknowledging that they recognized each other from one of those apps. There has even been a guy who came forward as one of his police academy classmates and said a lot of the classmates including Omar went to several gay bars together after classes and he even asked this guy out.
Does any of this new information matter? To some people and some of those in the media and politics it won't because they'll still view this as an Islamic terrorism/extremism situation, which I believe is not completely accurate. This information matters because if this guy did indeed have sexual feelings for men it's an example of what religion is capable of doing to a man, or woman, with these types of feelings. Religion and its policies can torture someone to suicide, or in this case to react violently.
This isn't just exclusive to Islam, this type of religious torture also comes from various forms of christian religions, secular Judaism, Mormonism, Hinduism, etc. And when you combine this with the power that religious politicians have, it's just making things worse. Ever since our Supreme Court declared any type of gay marriage ban unconstitutional and made gay marriage, not just civil unions, legal in all 50 states, there has been over 200 anti-LGBT bills proposed in the United states, with some already being signed into law. These politicians are further fueling the hate towards the LGBT community by continuing to try and deny them their rights, MY rights, and making them feel so unwelcome in their own country. It can drive a closeted individual to suicide, or worse, murder suicide.
Let's not forget, this isn't the only anti-LGBT incident that happened Sunday morning. Not sure if this got a lot of coverage outside of the US, but police officers in California prevented a potential mass shooting that would have taken place during Los Angeles' gay pride parade. They stopped a vehicle containing several assault rifles, ammunition, and possible explosives. The guy who was driving it was a white male from Indiana. If the Orlando incident never happened, but this LA one did, what argument would you make as the cause and solution if Islam played no role in that incident?
Trippnface you seem to avoid making the connection that EVERY mass shooting taken place in the US for the last 20 years has had, and that's guns. You can't blame it all on Islam, because the Columbine school shooting, the Sandy Hook shooting, the Aurora movie theater shooting, the Charleston church shooting, the Virginia Tech shooting, etc. had nothing to do with Islam. Guns have become too easily accessible, and there are guns that are far too deadly and unnecessary to have on the market. No one for any reason needs an assault rifle/weapon or semi-automatic weapon/rifle when a regular handgun does a good job of protecting yourself or a hunting rifle is enough to bring down game.
And there is nothing wrong with demanding stricter gun control laws. I'm not calling for a complete repeal of the 2nd Amendment because I do believe people have a right to protect themselves and I know that repeal would never happen. But there is nothing wrong with having stricter gun control that would ban such powerful firearms, keep a closer eye on who is buying these weapons, how much of these weapons and ammunition they're buying, restricting certain people from buying these weapons due to mentally incapable of handling the responsibility of a gun or if you are flagged as a potential danger, and requiring everyone to be fully trained and licensed to even have a gun, NOT just a concealed handgun license. If you have to get a drivers license to prove that you know how to operate a vehicle, then you should have a license to prove you know how to properly use a gun responsibly.
well I think I explained myself on most of that on my last post lol; but as far as many other mass shootings not involving Islam you are definitely correct . I personally believe pharmaceuticals are involved in a lot of these cases; and emotional/psychological instability is obviously a guarantee.
I simply just cannot agree that Americans do no need high powered weapons; with such a sickeningly corrupt & incompetent government. One of our most vaunted intelligence agencies; the FBI; did nothing with this man on their radar for YEARS. Was the problem this man purchasing a weapon; or the FBI doing nothing about it?
Honestly ; I do agree their should be stricter gun laws. Americans are going off the ****ing deep end and their should be some more serious emotional/ psychological tests...
* NOW; I will be surprised if you still consider me a racist or bigot ;p
you generally enjoy offending though; so 50/50 ;)
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Alert moderatorEdited by - trippnface on 2016/06/15 21:05:17
Elipton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts Joined: Apr, 2013
Posted - 2016/06/18 : 18:43:11
Sorry, I haven't explained my point well enough.
There are conflicting reports on whether this is a homophobic attack, or a terrorist attack. My point, which I failed to explain, is that if it's the latter, we're all targets of extremist terrorists.
Let say, for the point of argument, this was a person who had no alliances and just decided to attack a gay club. That's a homophobic attack. If it's a terrorist who's targeted everyone and ended up attacking the thing that is most frowned upon in the Islam world, it doesn't ring true to me as a homophobic attack. In my mind it's more like an attack on the western attitudes to it. To clarify that further, it's not an attack to say "things should only be man and woman", because that's not in the ISIS mindset. They want the complete destruction of all our society.
But clarifying my point isn't important since investigation has turned up new conclusions and I've not kept as up to date with this story since my last post. I just wanted to clarify what I meant, because it's garnered some reaction.
Gay Club Shooting
Printer friendly
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 05:43:22
Posted - 2016/06/13 : 07:23:51
