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Phayze
New Member
Canada
61 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
38 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2003/01/03 : 19:45:39
I recently picked up an old pair of Gemini XL 400 II's for a decent 300 total. They work perfectly, my only problem is the arm jumps a little too easily for me taste. I spent a good half hour trying to decide whether it works better top or bottom heavy but none of it really works. is it possible the cartridge is a little light? I'm probably grasping at straws here but I'd hate to think my "nice buy" wasn't so nice after all. Any ideas or tips?
[Phayze]
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saintberry
Senior Member
Australia
358 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
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 Posted - 2003/01/04 : 00:21:02
your best bet would be to replace your carts with something that has really really good tracking. what are you running @ the moment?
anway if you want good tracking you cant go past a pair of ortofon OM scratch (what I use and SWARE by!) or a pair of shure Mg44-7s. these two are the best tracking carts out there bar none
also, putting more weight on your cart can have a counteractive outcome, you should never weight down your tonearm by adding extra headshell weights or turning your counter weight around the wrong way to get extra down force....dont listen to scratch djs :P. its a fine science, that most of them know nothing about, weigh your carts down too much and gah you will get so much low end hum your ears will pop :P
also, make sure you balance your tonearm, set up the height adjustment and set up your anti skating control good and proper (most ppl have little to no idea about anti skating/height adjustment, but this should help...)
Tone Arm height (for ortofon carts):
"Simple procedure : w/platter stopped and a record (and slip mat if used) in place, lower the tonearm so stylus is in the groove.
Adust the height so that, when looking from the side the tonearm is perfectly parallel to the record surface (ie neither nose up nor nose down.) should look like 2 railroad tracks.
If the arm is nose up, raise the height. Nose down, lower it. Keep in mind that a stylus does not track perpendicular to the record, but at an industry standard of 20 degrees. The only time that angle is maintained is when the tonearm is adjusted correctly. Hope this clears things up. BTW as a point of reference, my test set-up 1200mk III , using an Ortofon slip mat (what else?) reads 1.6.
Additionally, that tracking angle is also dependent on the correct trackig force ...please no pennies, dimes, etc on top of the TA...just creates distortion and increase record wear. Whew, I thing that covers it."
(source: Frank from Ortofon Inc)
Anti Skate: (all DJ carts you fools :P)
"Also commonly misunderstood. If you keep in mind that records were not intended to played in the reverse direction.
Under normal hi-fi use anti- skate counteracts the rotatating records tendency to make the stylus "skate" towards the label by applyng an equal and opposite force towards the outer edge. So if you had a record w/ no grooves, theoretically the stylus would not move.
However, backcuieng and scratching creates a force towards the outer edge (ie reverse play-reverse force), so if you add in the antiskate force towards the outer edge, the stylus is more likely to skip. Sooooo, if you backcue/spin or scratch , you should have antiskate set to ZERO.
This keeps an equal pressure on both walls of a stereo groove.
In normal play direction the heavier tracking forces used by DJ carts makes the antiskate less of a influence that it does in hi-fi use where typical tracking forces are 1 1/2 grams vs 3 1/2 f/DJ carts. Hope this helped"
(source: once again frank from ortofon)
now most of you should know how to balance your tone arm so i wont go over that, but if you dont, just whinge and ill tell ya how (to the best of my knowledge)
hope that helps getting the best outa ya TTs
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Phayze
New Member
Canada
61 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
38 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/01/04 : 04:24:21
That most definitely helps! Thanx a ton for the extra hints at the bottom, my big mistake was the antiskate. The cartridges, are I guess the standards you got with the turntables, or another gemini make resembling them. I really appreciate your help, thanks again!
[Phayze]
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[Phayze]
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saintberry
Senior Member
Australia
358 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
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Posted - 2003/01/04 : 05:14:58
not a problem buddy and ahh most prolly stanton 505SKs or 500ALs (im guessing, ive never bought a gemini deck, but their pretty stock standard when it comes to buying decks that are loaded)
they are by no means bad carts...they should suit you fine.
how old are the decks? if they are old, might be a good idea to get some new styli. cos remember ppl, you should be replacing those styli ever 6 monts if your giving your deks heavy use or ever year or so with light use ;)
if you find your still skipping like a bitch and dont really wanna fork out the cash for a pair of new carts, im sure you could nab off UK ebay a pair of styli pretty cheap (might even find some carts on their for an ok price)
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Phayze
New Member
Canada
61 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
38 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/01/04 : 06:14:47
The skipping's fine now, it runs nice and smooth with the anti-skate adjustment. As for how old they are, i'm not too sure. It was more of a buy through a friend so what little information I got was pretty crappy. But they work just as well now, my only regret is they're belt drive, but you make due with what you've got. As a side question, I've only seen Stanton and Oxford styli around my area. not a bad price. Which would you say, if any, is worth the buy? Or should I check out some online stores for a different type?
[Phayze]
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Peter_Go_Zania
New Member
United States
31 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
225 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/01/06 : 09:19:35
quote:
Originally posted by saintberry:
also, make sure you balance your tonearm, set up the height adjustment and set up your anti skating control good and proper (most ppl have little to no idea about anti skating/height adjustment, but this should help...)
Aint that the truth^^^^ FINALLY someone else understands the importance of proper turntable calibration. 
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Edited by - Peter_Go_Zania on 2003/01/06 09:21:35 |
grinsystem
Starting Member
United States
15 posts
Joined: Jan, 2003
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Posted - 2003/01/08 : 13:06:06
just currious-
How do you set those Stanton Straight arm tables without any Height or Anti skate adjustments?
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saintberry
Senior Member
Australia
358 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
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Posted - 2003/01/08 : 14:55:54
RE the stanton str8s gah, id have NO idea...but ill have a guess
their prolly designed for use with statnon carts only...and staton carts being same height etc would not need the have a height adjustment. it would just be set @ a factory standard height for stanton carts.
as for the anti skate, they prolly left it out on some of the TTs to cut down cost. but some of the str8s have anti skating control dont they, im pretty sure the str8-100 does?
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grinsystem
Starting Member
United States
15 posts
Joined: Jan, 2003
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Posted - 2003/01/08 : 20:24:25
I tried replying earlier, but somehow it didnt go thru so let me try to reassemble the old message..
Yea pretty much All stanton turntables are straight armed, without any height adjustments(execpt for their high end str8-100, and another one that is an s-shaped arm. Both which doesnt seem that great really)
Sadly, I have the stanton 60es..I call them a step up from a belt drive.
My problem I guess is that the record needle isnt burned in yet. Both of them are with the cart that came with them. (one has 500-al II, and the one I just got now has the 500-sk dj craze ver.) Ive been placing the weight at whatever then placing a 2-liter coke cap on the top(hey they are not as heavy as say..a dime). This makes them track very well, and the sound quality is quite good. Remove them, they jump about 3/4 thru a record, and their is a scratchy/ hum quality to them. The one with 500-sk doesnt have much as a problem like the 500-al does. But then again its a better cart slightly.
I will figure out how to fix them one of these days! :)
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/01/10 : 23:26:19
quote:
Originally posted by grinsystem:
I will figure out how to fix them one of these days! :)
That may be wishful thinking mate  You just have to baby those tables I bet, I have a friend who has a Numark that I would consider "a step up from belt-drive" as you say. So you're sitting here with one Technics and one shit table and you can really tell the difference. You're really a bit limited by it, but at the same time I guess it makes you work harder for the mix *shrug*
CandyAss
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grinsystem
Starting Member
United States
15 posts
Joined: Jan, 2003
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 Posted - 2003/01/12 : 13:14:35
Oh Im refering to the needle tracking, not the torque! of course I can't fix that...
This is going to be an ingorant comment, but just a thought... Would it be possible to do a motor modification? Like get an used 1200 motor(unless they cost as much as the table itself might as well get a used 1200) and with some casing changes, place it in there? I know their would have to be some electrical issues that would have to be done, and among other things..Ah forget it. What the heck Iam thinking?
Anyways, the sadest thing for me today, is I cant do any practicing because the table my turntables were on just broke while I was shifting around furniture :(
Time for a trip to Ikea!
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Kaffine
Senior Member
United States
474 posts
Joined: Jun, 2002
91 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/01/12 : 14:11:49
The beauty of 1200s is that they really have no motor, they're run by magnetic forces applied to a large magnet attached to the bottom of the platter...
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