| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Xenochrome |
I want to hear from other DJ's on this one. I feel that are far too many people who lack any sort af technical DJ'ing skills, but are billing themselves as DJ's because they know how to use a computer.
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| Soren |
I haven't seen anyone using a Laptop live at a party except people doing live shows of music they created themselves. I wouldn't call it cheating if DJ's are actually doing that, but I might call it ****** dumb and pointless :)
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| Dj Tripnosis |
Yes it is cheating, whole heartedly. In my opinion anyway. You'd have to call yourself a CJ , I mean c'mon, what discs are you using, that sorta defeats the purpose of DISC JOCKEY. The same way that Anobolic Frolic cheated making the happy 2B Hardcore series, they were all digitally mixed ( aka using yer f*ckin computer) .....for shame
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4-Beat 4-Ever
-Hi, My name is Auto and i looove to get Blotto !! - |
| Brian K |
umm the hard drives have discs in them, does that count? =P
"Cuz I'm hardcore, heavyweight, magical man." |
| ET |
To me anything other then pure Vinyl unless you made the music yourself is cheating.
I mean I even think mixing CD's is kinda cheating.
If you are doing a Live PA and use a cd, but you made the music yourself or use a dat file then no not cheating
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| Xenochrome |
Of course an accomplished DJ who uses a computer to compliment a set is one thing. There are several DJ's in my neck of the woods (Chicago) who are quite popular in the clubs and do entire sets with a laptop. One of these jokers informed me that he had NEVER EVEN TOUCHED A TURNTABLE, and that I was a fool for wasting my time with vinyl.
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| atomicb |
hmm depends, something like the final scratch setup is isn't cheating, but without a doubt, digital mixing H2BH style is cheating, because u ond't do it real time and just let the comp do it all for you.
I'd say they mostly are, except final scracth coz you have decks :)
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| Xenochrome |
Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate everyone's opinion on this. Keep it going!
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| DJ Mouse |
if your mp3 mixer's got auto cue on it where it finds the perfect mix for you then hell yeah it's cheating,all you're doing is pushing a button and the mix is done,now where's the talent or skill in that??
on the other hand,if you're simply using the mp3 mixer as an alternate medium and find the pitch yourself then it's ok
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"Don't frown when someone annoys you, it uses 42 muscles. Bitch-slap the fu©ker, it only uses 4"
DJ Mouse |
| Cephiros |
I wonder if I have a right to say anything since I'm just a newbie learning to beatmatch. I would have to say to mix using a computer without figuring out the pitch would be consider cheating.
If you are using the Final Scratch thing then I would have to say no, it's not cheating. Besides... Why not use vinyl, I love the feel of it!
Cephiros
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| Dj Tripnosis |
quote:
Originally posted by djnateking:
Of course an accomplished DJ who uses a computer to compliment a set is one thing. There are several DJ's in my neck of the woods (Chicago) who are quite popular in the clubs and do entire sets with a laptop. One of these jokers informed me that he had NEVER EVEN TOUCHED A TURNTABLE, and that I was a fool for wasting my time with vinyl.
Sure he may be able to impress the crowd with music but a band can do that to or a singer, thats exactly what a DJ does but he uses discs, his laptop doesn't make him a DJ , either way he's a fool to say that about using vinyl , for shame
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4-Beat 4-Ever
-Hi, My name is Auto and i looove to get Blotto !! - |
| DJ CURLY |
I some times mess about with a program called traktor dj studio....its pretty easy to mix with it even without using the automated features........so yes its cheating.
"what is real
if your talking about what we touch taste and smell and hear then real is just electrical signals interpreted by our brains"
previosly known as
DREAMSCAPE2002 |
| Kaffine |
I don't quite think they could be digitally mixed... I mean... all that help and he still can't pull off quality mixes? Do you hear how sloppy they are?
It's sorta just like playing sports... No point in cheating if you're not going to win anyway.
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| DeeJay EJ |
I think it all depends. If they are just mixing cd's for friends than no. If they are using the computer programs to do ALL of their mixing and not letting people know that parts of it were mixed by computer then yes. Me I have a couple of programs on my computer. But I also have touched tables as well. A friend of mine is teaching me to spin and I will be geting some tables of my own here pretty soon. But using programs to do ALL mixing is just wrong.
But it is funny to see a digital deck on your computer and you can touch it at all. It gets frustrating taht you cant pick it up and throw it out the window.
~~Only that what you BELIVE is TRUE will be made true~~ |
| Kaffine |
Of course you can pick up a computer and throw it out the window, it's just not as aerodynamic...
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| Xenochrome |
and it would do more damage if it hit someone...NASTY lawsuit...
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| Kaffine |
I dunno about that ;P I mean, drop a 1200 from about two feet and it'll leave a 60 foot deep crater. They're made of solid lead and uranium, or at least feel that way ;P
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| Annex |
not that i'm currently involved in producing or mixing anything.. but...
my only point here is.. since when are there rules?
dontcha haveta break some rules to cheat?
now granted, you go with 'one button' mixing.. and it'll be lame as all hell, but hey... you do what you do.. just.. chances are it'll sound crappy n ppl will bitch and moan online about you ;)
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potatoe :)
keep on smiling |
| Nemesis |
I think using pc's will become more fashionable as time goes on.
However, do you consider it cheating to produce HH using a pc?
I don't.
You got whacked cuz your weak! |
| Kaffine |
Using a PC to produce is not a problem, many top DJs do it. It's the mixing of songs that are already completed that should be done with real hardware. Personally, I think that the advent of the virtual studio is gonna be of great benefit to us all ;P
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| Soren |
quote:
Using a PC to produce is not a problem, many top DJs do it.
So if all the top HHC DJ's like Brisk, Spree, and Paulina Taylor said that mixing MP3's on a PC is the way of the future and everyone should do that then it'd be OK right? And bringing up producing is a good point. Isn't mixing other people's music on easily beat-matchable vinyl cheating? Shouldn't everyone be making their own tunes and doing live shows? What is cheating and what's not? It's anyones call really and completely up to ones personal judgment and no one elses.
That's all just in theory however and I totally agree that using a PC to mix is cheating... :D
"Sadness is a barnacle clinging to your bright boat. You won't let it sink your spirits if you'll only learn to float. We are all sea captains, sailing on life's rough seas. Come on you Magellan's, come with me I've got Pie; Happiness Pie."
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| Kaffine |
Yeah, but there's a difference - when you're producing, no matter on what platform, a certain amount of skill must go in to the production - mastering, coming up with a catchy stab, programming synths, etc.... once you start moving into a field where there is one specific skill needed (DJing - other than picking tracks, all you need is the ability to beatmatch..)
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| djtommyrenegade |
Personally as a DJ, i think if ya use a computer to mix, your only cheating yourself. Anyway your hardly gonna become a world famous mouse pushing computer deejay, are you!?
So i say i ya use a computer have your fun, but if ya wanna play sets in front of crowds of hundreds, vinyl is your only weapon
by the way, theres a track i heard at Planet Love, that hixxy play and i dunno what it is called, a man says in it:
" You play the music and they do what ya tell em"
and then it changes to
"F##k you i wont do as you tell me!" etc
can anyone help me???????
DJ Renegade aka Tommy C
thomas crossley |
| ryg0r |
The thing is, however, ravers/clubbers only want the music - and really don't care (that much) about delivery.
Sure Dj's may call other Dj's cheaters for using a PC to beat match track, but then again, only Dj's really care - unless of course it was a turntablism set.
As for the H2BH series, the majority of listeners didn't really care. I personally enjoyed the ultra smooth mixing, be it computer or otherwise.
-=[ryg0r]=- |
| strychnine |
^^ sadly, that's true about many ravers and even more clubbers - most clubs I've been to recently don't even take the covers off their turntables, that is, if they even have them.
However, most ravers *will* spot bad DJ'ing, and most *will* appreciate a good set more if the track selection and mixing are absolutely spot on, even if most of them wouldn't have the faintest idea as to *why* it was a good set, so I think delivery does have a much greater effect than you suggest.
As for CD's, you can tell if it's been mixed on computer - it sounds like the DJ only knows how to use the cross-fader (and rather poorly at that). Good well-mixed CD's (and sets for that matter) make you appreciate each individual track more than if you just played that track by itself.
Having said that, I (sorta) agree with Annex - IMHO the only "rules" you gotta follow are the ones specific to your performance, eg the promoter will only let you spin on vinyl or the crowd at this party as a whole is music-savvy enough to expect you to mix on turntables. *shrugs*
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| DJ Mouse |
" You play the music and they do what ya tell em"
and then it changes to
"F##k you i wont do as you tell me!" etc
that's masters of ceremony - under control
as for the production on a computer,i suppose you could say it's cheating in a sense, but since every hardcore or dance tune is made on a computer it's become a way of life...so get used to it. the way i see it is this: making a tune on a computer is good...but to be able to recreate that tune live is even better - take faithless as an example
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"Don't frown when someone annoys you, it uses 42 muscles. Bitch-slap the fu©ker, it only uses 4"
DJ Mouse |
| Soren |
quote:
Yeah, but there's a difference - when you're producing, no matter on what platform, a certain amount of skill must go in to the production - mastering, coming up with a catchy stab, programming synths, etc....
Actually with the extreme number of "tracker" programs and sample loops CD's it takes absolutely no skill to make techno anymore. You could go buy a loop player and a "UK Hard House In a Box" CD and make a track that sounds just like everyone else in like 5 days with no prior experience. Then you could churn out a track a day if you wanted to. But if you're a producer that actually designs your own sounds, creates custom MIDI arrangement, and actually makes the music then it still takes skill. But I don't think many people do that anymore.
"I don't care if it rains or freezes, Long as I have my plastic Jesus Riding on the dashboard of my car.
Going 90, it ain't scary cause I've got the virgin Mary; sitting on the dashboard of my car." |
| djyogi |
its cheating , also when u use drugs and mix its cheating.
"My only regret in life is that i wasn't a DJ" Draz |
| strychnine |
^^ I would've though mixing while wrecked was more of a handicap than anything :P
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| DJ Mouse |
yep,tried that one and all you're doing is falling over ,can't see what you're doing,tripping over your headphones etc etc etc
that's a handicap fair enough. but only if you're totally out of it
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"Don't frown when someone annoys you, it uses 42 muscles. Bitch-slap the fu©ker, it only uses 4"
DJ Mouse |
| strychnine |
There's one drug i've tried where one of its secondary effects is to tweak your hearing to the point that you can "hear" everything, like if you're listening to a set you can hear every turn of the knob, every flick of a switch, everything - I s'pose if you were mixing on this stuff even the smallest off-beat will sound like a trainwreck, so maybe it'll be an advantage.
Problem is, the more you take, the better your hearing, but the more inclined you are to hallucinate, and the more dissociated your mind becomes from your body. I wouldn't suppose it's any good hearing even the smallest error in your mixing if you haven't got enough motor control left to fix it, especially when you're being attacked an army of flying purple elephants =P
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| mcjutt |
^^^^
hell yeah thats sounds wicked! i could use some of that for when i produce!
**** were agreeing on something are we ill?
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight |
| strychnine |
grrr this is wrong ... quick jutt, make it right and say something that i'll think is stupid 
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| DJWOOWOO69 |
IT'S WRONG UN LESS IT S UR OWN STUF. BUT THEN U SHUD PUT IT ON CD OR VINLE B4 U USE IT.
LIVELONG
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RAVE ON |
| Soren |
But isn't it cheating to use drugs to mix? :D
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I don't care if it rains or freezes, Long as I have my plastic Jesus Riding on the dashboard of my car; Going 90, it ain't scary cause I've got the virgin Mary; sitting on the dashboard of my car. |
| djscorch |
You damn right it is. If someone does this and claims to be a dj then it takes the piss out of people who have taken the time out to do it properly and learn how to mix on the wheels of steel.
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| strychnine |
quote:
Originally posted by Soren:
But isn't it cheating to use drugs to mix? :D
LMAO nice one, mate 
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| DJ_kayos |
i think its a good thing 2 start off with i mean if u dont have money for tables n ur worki for em n u get somethng like automix mp3 or vitrualy turntables 2 learn how 2 beatmatch n such its agood tool till u get tables but i do agree it doesnt compare 2 tables but when i 1st started out i used those 2 learn now i have tables n those 2 programs helped me alot
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| Kaffine |
Mouse ≠ Platter
I think learning with a mouse would confuse you more when you actually wanted to get to it... a mouse offers no resistance or feedback.
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| Lusive |
perhaps, but what about a force feedback mouse! that acts like a turntable platter!
okay thats just silly i know
| A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. "Hear that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby." -Jack Handy | |
| mcjutt |
ok strychinne i hate brisk !
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight |
| strychnine |
^^ that's not stupid, just pointless. Close enough, though
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| Kaffine |
...Naw, I'd call that stupid...
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| mcjutt |
but i actully love brisk................. erm ah who am i kidding do u know we argue alot cos we are the same person thats it.
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight |
| strychnine |
quote:
Originally posted by mcjutt:
but i actully love brisk................. erm ah who am i kidding do u know we argue alot cos we are the same person thats it.
Hey shut up jutt, you weren't supposed to tell anyone!
*slaps mcjutt across the back of the head*
You think you can keep our little secret from here on in?
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| virus |
the majority of mix cd's have have digital editing done to them...
"GREAT, JUST GREAT now hardcore will die! THANKS A BUNCH!!!" |
| Soren |
quote:
the majority of mix cd's have have digital editing done to them...
I'd go so far as to say all mix CD's have digital editing done to them. If they don't they prob don't sound to great. But there's a big difference beween normalizing, EQ'ing, expanding, and maybe compressing a mix and using a computer to do the beat matching for you :D
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I don't care if it rains or freezes, Long as I have my plastic Jesus Riding on the dashboard of my car; Going 90, it ain't scary cause I've got the virgin Mary; sitting on the dashboard of my car. |
| Xenochrome |
well said^^
I hear a lot of people tossing the term "computer DJ" around. IMO if you do all of your beat matching with a computer, you are NOT a DJ!!!
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| DJWOOWOO69 |
come muter 'DJ' if u realy wanner call them that have no talent or skills. there just a bunch of perthetic sad acts that carnt DJ proply
LIVELONG
.....................................
RAVE ON |
| silver |
I had the chance to demo 1 of 5 units of Final Scratch in Japan the other day... I could not believe what I saw... This is truely digital playing as vinyl... At first I was like "yeah it's another DJ toy" but you can do everything that you can do with a vinyl with digital audio it's amazing... you can cue, use the pitch, scratch, speed up slow down with no delay and you don't need anything special done to your turntables just play final scratches time code vinyl and it all works!
I am the first to admit I am not the best at CDJ's, it's kind of like DJing blindfolded and as one **** up in your DJ set can destroy the vibe so quick it is not funny I try to avoid them... but final scratch, no problems... it's 500 dollars well spent to me as I can play all my promo's witouth dubplate or fear of the CDJ :)
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you, me and hardcore forever. |
| strychnine |
All this time I've been wondering WTF all this Final Scratch business is, so I looked it up and ... Oh...My...Gawd *cracks a hard-on* this looks awesome.
One thing though - using real turntables means that the discrepancies in deck quality (ie tracking, torque, etc) still apply, am I right?
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Forty-two purple crayons |
| Xenochrome |
yep...I saw Ritchie Hawtin (Plastikman) play a set with both vinyl and Final Scratch...I have to admit it was impressive,
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| silver |
quote:
Originally posted by strychnine:
One thing though - using real turntables means that the discrepancies in deck quality (ie tracking, torque, etc) still apply, am I right?
Basically you play the final scratch vinyl that output into the special final scratch DSP thingy which is hooked up to the laptop, the DSP thingy converts the time code audio signal from the vinyl being playing into digital minutes and seconds and play's that part of the digital cound file...
So I as long as the record can output an audio signal it will play the digital file. I didn't actually setup the final scratch machine (the company guy did) so I am sure there is some sort of calibration you have to do before hand to make sure things are okay... but still it would not matter if you are a used to vinyl.
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you, me and hardcore forever. |
