| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Quicksilver |
A tip I picked up a few years ago was to put kicks in mono to put them more "in the front" and lessen any stereo effect that might occur from the kick. Now I've been doing that since then, but it just occurred yesterday when coming to think of it that maybe it is after all a bad idea?
Any of you got any input on this? Good/bad idea? Pros/cons? |
| electrogen |
the way i understand it is the bass on the kick has to be mono but the rest doesn't have to be. If you make kicks regular like me i use sine wave for bass on kick. layer it with normal kick with bass removed and i also layer with claps and snares too panned with volume low so you only hear the decay. but you have to get the balance right. if you cut too much bass from the 2nd kick layer it will sound off. i am sat here now on a ten minute break after spending 10 hours listening to bass sounds. u have to listen constant at times to notice fine changes.
also make sure you remove everything you dont need |
| Dys7 |
I always do my kicks and bass on mono, it gives the leads and such more room. |
| Hard2Get |
Most of the time the kick is best in mono. Unless you are trying to achieve something that requires it being stereo, which would then make it fine to be in stereo. It needs to be done right for it to work. But presumably if you knew enough to know when you should and shouldn't have a kick in stereo you would know how to make it work. |
| Quicksilver |
Ah nice! I'll keep putting them in mono then... As for bass, I heard that too, but doesn't that make the bass sound a bit sterile or do pretty much every producer put bass in mono too?
I don't do my own kick drums, electrogen, luckily I don't have that problem about layers, I only usually top the kick with a another kick's higher freq layer (and cut out the lower and lower-mid completely) to give it a bit more distinction. |
| electrogen |
Kicks and basses are a tricky one as well as pads because every part of the mix has to be equal in every matter. So when the breakdown occurs if there is no bass it will sound off. The kick bassline snare and pads have to in my opinion have to have some bass frequencies in them. And they have to be mono. Easy way is to create a sub and bass groups 2 seperate groups. Open up ur favourite synth and use a sine wave. U will need 2 seperate synths generating sine waves at 2 different bass frequencies. The kick has to be using the frequency of your mix so if your song is in C, the sine waves bith need to be in C but the kicks sine wave would be an octave lower than your snares sine. Your kicks bass needs to be hitting around 100hz your snares bass around 200-250hz and your basslines bass around 66hz you can also use your bassline bass for your pad too. If you group them it makes it easier later on for the levels. You would then use a proper snare and kick for the higher frequencies and whatever for the bass. Bht the higher layers dont need to be mono. |
| Warnman |
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
Most of the time the kick is best in mono. Unless you are trying to achieve something that requires it being stereo, which would then make it fine to be in stereo. It needs to be done right for it to work. But presumably if you knew enough to know when you should and shouldn't have a kick in stereo you would know how to make it work.
I've herad that a human sense of hearing is unable to realise the difference between a mono kick and a stereo kick. I don't know if it's true or just a rumour, but it would explain it. |
| Hard2Get |
quote:
Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Ah nice! I'll keep putting them in mono then... As for bass, I heard that too, but doesn't that make the bass sound a bit sterile or do pretty much every producer put bass in mono too?
I don't do my own kick drums, electrogen, luckily I don't have that problem about layers, I only usually top the kick with a another kick's higher freq layer (and cut out the lower and lower-mid completely) to give it a bit more distinction.
The very same thing applies to bass's for the very same reason. Higher octave layers do not count. But if it's actually a sub bass then it's the same. |
| Hard2Get |
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
Most of the time the kick is best in mono. Unless you are trying to achieve something that requires it being stereo, which would then make it fine to be in stereo. It needs to be done right for it to work. But presumably if you knew enough to know when you should and shouldn't have a kick in stereo you would know how to make it work.
I've herad that a human sense of hearing is unable to realise the difference between a mono kick and a stereo kick. I don't know if it's true or just a rumour, but it would explain it.
Bass frequencies are omni-directional so yeah. Stereo effects can be applied though.
|
| Quicksilver |
Interesting! :) Gonna put subs in mono from now on then... :) |
| Dys7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
Most of the time the kick is best in mono. Unless you are trying to achieve something that requires it being stereo, which would then make it fine to be in stereo. It needs to be done right for it to work. But presumably if you knew enough to know when you should and shouldn't have a kick in stereo you would know how to make it work.
I've herad that a human sense of hearing is unable to realise the difference between a mono kick and a stereo kick. I don't know if it's true or just a rumour, but it would explain it.
Absolutely untrue, no idea how a rumor like that could even start because you could quite easily open a DAW, pick a random kick, and then try it in mono and hear the difference.
Im not home at the moment, otherwise I'd post an example, but I will as soon as I can.
|
| Quicksilver |
I've heard myself a bit of difference fiddling around with kicks, going from mono to stereo. |
| Dys7 |
I think the problem is most kicks are already in mono. |
| electrogen |
Usually the lower the frequency the more central it has to be. No point putting subs in stereo as it takes too much headroom. |
| Audio Warfare |
It's just the low end that really wants to be mono on a Hardcore kick and bass. That is the driving force in Hardcore and it has to be smack in the middle. Not to mention the fact that a lot of club systems will be hooked up in mono and a stereo low end sound could phase, this would be disastrous for what is supposed to be a very consistent, solid sound. |
| Audio Warfare |
quote:
Originally posted by Dys7:
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
Most of the time the kick is best in mono. Unless you are trying to achieve something that requires it being stereo, which would then make it fine to be in stereo. It needs to be done right for it to work. But presumably if you knew enough to know when you should and shouldn't have a kick in stereo you would know how to make it work.
I've herad that a human sense of hearing is unable to realise the difference between a mono kick and a stereo kick. I don't know if it's true or just a rumour, but it would explain it.
Absolutely untrue, no idea how a rumor like that could even start because you could quite easily open a DAW, pick a random kick, and then try it in mono and hear the difference.
Im not home at the moment, otherwise I'd post an example, but I will as soon as I can.
Actually there is some truth in that although what he has said isn't entirely true. Human hearing is incapable of deciphering the direction of low end sounds to a certain extent under a certain threshold. I assume this is what he means. Of course anything above that threshold on a kick or bass you can tell what direction it's coming from no problem. |
| Elipton |
I find that the wider (more stereo) a sample is, the less defined high or low end it will contain |
| Audio Warfare |
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
I find that the wider (more stereo) a sample is, the less defined high or low end it will contain
I would say that's either your mind or your room playing tricks on you. Depending on how you are achieving said width of course! |
| cruelcore1 |
It depends. Kick needs to suit the rest of the track. You can bring the kick more to front by compressing or increasing the volume anyway. |
| electrogen |
Insuppose it depnds what you do with your kick and what it was to start with. |
| Dys7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
I find that the wider (more stereo) a sample is, the less defined high or low end it will contain
I would say that's either your mind or your room playing tricks on you. Depending on how you are achieving said width of course!
Actually I've found this too |
| Dys7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
Actually there is some truth in that although what he has said isn't entirely true. Human hearing is incapable of deciphering the direction of low end sounds to a certain extent under a certain threshold. I assume this is what he means. Of course anything above that threshold on a kick or bass you can tell what direction it's coming from no problem.
I think this is a bit of a stretch. You just turned "Can't tell the difference between stereo and mono kick" into "Can't decphier the direction of low end after a certain threshold" |
| electrogen |
The fact is that lower crequencies below 200-250hz you cant really tell where there coming from. If your kick is a raw kick with just low frequencies then it can be in mono. It doest have to but it takes up headroom in stereo and mono but more in stereo. Low frequencies are usually put into mono but i always fing that it doesnt need monoising if it is raw sine wave as you can make your own kicks with raw sine fundamental and this will auto be in mono sort if and adding mono effect does nothing. Adding anstereo effect like flanger or phaser is counter oreductive as it just takes geadroom that is needed elsewhere. But if you use a sampled kick from vengeance or another pack then i keave them as they are ynless im using it as a base for a layered kick. Even then i usually add a sine wave fundamental and mono that. If use a sub bass sine ir square on your bassline the sub would be mono and the low mids and hi bass would be stereo or can be stereo and this would have no effect on headroom as the subs would. But it js always personal taste and prefs. There is no right and wrong but as you cant really add stereo fx to anything below 200hz there is no point in it being in stereo.
Stereo is more of a symbolic sorta thing anyhow as if you have a saw wave flat playing middle c is about 500hz it would still be mono sounding untill you add stereo differences. Thats why it sonhard to work out the stereo field. Front to back, top to bottom or left to right. |
| Dys7 |
Here's a drop with a Mono vs. Stereo bass. |
| DJ_FunDaBounce |
quote:
Originally posted by electrogen:
The fact is that lower crequencies below 200-250hz you cant really tell where there coming from. If your kick is a raw kick with just low frequencies then it can be in mono. It doest have to but it takes up headroom in stereo and mono but more in stereo. Low frequencies are usually put into mono but i always fing that it doesnt need monoising if it is raw sine wave as you can make your own kicks with raw sine fundamental and this will auto be in mono sort if and adding mono effect does nothing. Adding anstereo effect like flanger or phaser is counter oreductive as it just takes geadroom that is needed elsewhere. But if you use a sampled kick from vengeance or another pack then i keave them as they are ynless im using it as a base for a layered kick. Even then i usually add a sine wave fundamental and mono that. If use a sub bass sine ir square on your bassline the sub would be mono and the low mids and hi bass would be stereo or can be stereo and this would have no effect on headroom as the subs would. But it js always personal taste and prefs. There is no right and wrong but as you cant really add stereo fx to anything below 200hz there is no point in it being in stereo.
Stereo is more of a symbolic sorta thing anyhow as if you have a saw wave flat playing middle c is about 500hz it would still be mono sounding untill you add stereo differences. Thats why it sonhard to work out the stereo field. Front to back, top to bottom or left to right.
my head hurts!
about the underline...
If there weren't a right and wrong how would we make sense out of all this?
Sounds to me like an excuse to say "my wrong is right because I say so, therefore, it's right".
If you were to press a track onto vinyl the mastering engineer would un-stereoize everything below a certain frequency to avoid phasing and a wide groove. |
| Audio Warfare |
quote:
Originally posted by Dys7:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
I find that the wider (more stereo) a sample is, the less defined high or low end it will contain
I would say that's either your mind or your room playing tricks on you. Depending on how you are achieving said width of course!
Actually I've found this too
Depending on how you are achieving the effect it shouldn't generally be the case. Use a spectral analyser and see for yourself. I imagine it's just flaws in your listening environment.
quote:
Originally posted by Dys7:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
Actually there is some truth in that although what he has said isn't entirely true. Human hearing is incapable of deciphering the direction of low end sounds to a certain extent under a certain threshold. I assume this is what he means. Of course anything above that threshold on a kick or bass you can tell what direction it's coming from no problem.
I think this is a bit of a stretch. You just turned "Can't tell the difference between stereo and mono kick" into "Can't decphier the direction of low end after a certain threshold"
It is a bit of a stretch yes, that's why I said "some truth". ;) Someone has misunderstood what they where reading/hearing I imagine. |
