| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Claxton |
Darren Styles.
This guy has to be the scene's best chance of bringing in new fans from outside.
He has a mass appeal that no one else in Hardcore can even come close to. The fact his album made it to number 4 in the charts says it all really. He gets huge bookings at events such as EDC and constantly remixes for some of the bigger names in dance music.
In Hardcore terms, Darren Styles is a titan. Nobody comes close to him what so ever (yes people like Re-Con have done huge things, but not as a hardcore artist).
I've heard people say, in the past, that he doesn't have what it takes to expand Hardcore or take it further whether that be through laziness or a lack of nous, but surely, as a scene, we can use his reach to harness growth.
He is consistently the best song writer and his production standard surpasses anyone else in the music. Surely Darren Styles is the gateway into hardcore for those outside?
Discuss....
Ps. I've just read that back, and I sound like a right fan boy. |
| Hard2Get |
I think he always has been. If i wanted to show someone what i define as 90's 'Happy' Hardcore then I'd start with a F&S tune. |
| Captain Triceps |
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
I think he always has been. If i wanted to show someone what i define as 90's 'Happy' Hardcore then I'd start with a F&S tune.
I've just done a Force & Styles-tunes only mix, funnily enough. |
| Elliott |
He was even better before he started producing shite. |
| warped_candykid |
I would say during the 90s, he was a lead name, and then of course when he worked under the title "Breeze & Styles"...but after he went solo...that's where I stopped following him. Would I consider him hardcore's most prized assest when you have artists like Al Storm, Scott Brown, Brisk, Dougal, DNA, Stompy, Seduction (and yes, I know some are gone, but they were innovators!), No, I wouldn't. |
| Kebab Head |
quote:
Originally posted by Claxton:
Darren Styles.
This guy has to be the scene's best chance of bringing in new fans from outside.
He has a mass appeal that no one else in Hardcore can even come close to. The fact his album made it to number 4 in the charts says it all really. He gets huge bookings at events such as EDC and constantly remixes for some of the bigger names in dance music.
In Hardcore terms, Darren Styles is a titan. Nobody comes close to him what so ever (yes people like Re-Con have done huge things, but not as a hardcore artist).
I've heard people say, in the past, that he doesn't have what it takes to expand Hardcore or take it further whether that be through laziness or a lack of nous, but surely, as a scene, we can use his reach to harness growth.
He is consistently the best song writer and his production standard surpasses anyone else in the music. Surely Darren Styles is the gateway into hardcore for those outside?
Discuss....
Ps. I've just read that back, and I sound like a right fan boy.
I totally agree and im a huge fan. yes there are some other great artists but commercially they dont come close. ironically the commercial succes recon has had under ultrabeat has pretty much all been darrens work bare a few tracks but defo mostly hardcore just redone into chart dance :P |
| _Jay_ |
Yeah he is unrivaled in that respect.
I would say that Scott Brown does have a similar capacity for song-writing. Or at least did, with all those naughties vocal anthems. And yes, I acknowledge by songwriting you didn't literally just mean writing lyrics.
Either way - seeing BOTH the boys tonight!!!
|
| The drunken scotsman |
Agree completely. My interest in hardcore has dropped a fair bit recently but I'll always look out for what DS is doing. He is miles ahead of anyone else in the scene.
Said it before but he would be a world famous top tier DJ if he made house or something. The fact that he continues to make hardcore deserves a lot of respect. |
| d2kx |
quote:
Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Agree completely. My interest in hardcore has dropped a fair bit recently but I'll always look out for what DS is doing. He is miles ahead of anyone else in the scene.
Said it before but he would be a world famous top tier DJ if he made house or something. The fact that he continues to make hardcore deserves a lot of respect.
Nothing more to add. This is exactly how I feel aswell. |
| oxis |
i don't feel comfortable picking just one guy because it seems like all of them have different functions in the scene. there are the innovative, edgy guys who are always looking for new stuff to bring into the genre (Lethal Theory, for example) and the consistent titans who are responsible for keeping the scene on it's feet while the other guys are free to experiment without causing too much damage (Evolution, for example (although Scott Brown has been trying out some slightly different stuff lately, even if slowly))
none of the examples i gave are my labels of choice, just two examples that come to mind. |
| Kebab Head |
quote:
Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Agree completely. My interest in hardcore has dropped a fair bit recently but I'll always look out for what DS is doing. He is miles ahead of anyone else in the scene.
Said it before but he would be a world famous top tier DJ if he made house or something. The fact that he continues to make hardcore deserves a lot of respect.
if Darren Styles broke away from hardcore then he would be extremely popular world wide in the trance scene. a hell a lot of his past stuff especially is tranced infused anyway! !! he would take over in the trance scene pretty quickly i rekon. he has stuck with hardcore as its what he loves tho I guess!!! and probably makes enough money without the need to jump ship to make more..... having said that, I would love a Darren Styles pure euphoric trance only tune ... even if its just the one to see what his production would be like!!! |
| jordesuvi |
If you're at the top of the genre you create, why would you switch genres?
Darren is a great producer and somewhat groundbreaking in his productions but I would not say he is our only.
I've mentioned before but I also think Rhythmics and nanobii are underrated and also have great potential if they pushed in the Monstercat/Porter Robinson/Madeon/Mat Zo/Pegboard Nerds direction. Unfortunately, both artists don't release new music that often. |
| DjZelous |
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
He was even better before he started producing shite.
Dude try not to get darren to put this up on soundcloud now ;) |
| Elipton |
Darren Styles has a fair amount of torque, but since he's lost a label that can launch him into the charts and fund his albums, he's not had a lot more than his fellow Futureworld/Together We Rot artists. After all, his hardcore 'classics' were domesticated into 160 dance hits to garner some interest.
It's all well and good being the top of a genre, but when it's a small genre and you don't have means to reach new people, you don't have much worth to the genre's future. With that in mind, artists who can reach new people are the ones most influential. Nanobii has been fortunate to have probably the most popular Hardcore track of the past 3 or 4 years with a release on Monstercat.
Expanding 'asset' outside of solely production, events organizers, label owners and promoters are very valuable. Sadly I don't think there are people doing enough with events or their labels to reach new people (although, Attack the Music is looking very good for encompassing various genres into it's releases). Promoters, however, have quite a bit of influence. Jordesuvi's channel is good evidence of that. His music uploads have regularly reached 50000 promoting releases, labels and artists to a new pool of people.
So yeah, I'd say Darren Styles (though his power has diminished), Nanobii (provided he can sustain high profile releases) and Jordesuvi are Hardcore's prized assets at the moment. |
| versia |
Disappointing to notice no one has mentioned S3RL. I don't care if you don't like his music, but he's getting 50k - 100k views on YouTube on each release lately; and yes, he's doing stuff at 175 again. |
| CDJay |
Benefiting a wider genre doesn't involve amassing a discrete immovable fanbase.
This applies to pretty much everyone mentioned, who isn't running a YouTube channel, thus far.
CDJay
|
| latininxtc |
quote:
Originally posted by versia:
Disappointing to notice no one has mentioned S3RL. I don't care if you don't like his music, but he's getting 50k - 100k views on YouTube on each release lately; and yes, he's doing stuff at 175 again.
Really 50k-100k views on YouTube?!?!?
YouTube views don't mean shit, or as much as you think they do. For S3RL it just means his fans prefer to listen to his tracks over and over on YT rather than spend the money to own the tracks.
But as far as worldwide popularity is concerned, he's probably the 2nd most recognized name in the uk/upfront hardcore industry behind Darren Styles. |
| oxis |
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
Nanobii has been fortunate to have probably the most popular Hardcore track of the past 3 or 4 years with a release on Monstercat.
i'd say he was more than fortunate. in terms of popularity, he is definitely up there. but when it comes to quality, eh... i'll just say that his most popular track is a remix of rainbow road from mario kart 64. take the melody out and it is claps and noise sweeps. it's not that i don't like his tracks, it is just that i genuinely believe he is not talented enough to produce something amazing (yet). i wouldn't consider him a quality artist and a "prized asset", and i don't think he deserves the popularity. mostly marketing's work. waving a "NEW GENRE" flag in front of the masses and have it be an incredibly generic, public friendly EDM track that has the core elements of said genre is a great way to earn fans.
he is a good way to get the name happy hardcore out there for sure though. my concern is that fans will listen to to Nanobii's stuff and expect everything else in the genre to sound like it (which it clearly doesn't, Nanobii is entry level hardcore if you ask me).
if there was an artist that could create the bridge between the appeal of Nanobii and the current scene, I would consider him the most prized asset immediately. |
| Elipton |
quote:
Originally posted by versia:
Disappointing to notice no one has mentioned S3RL. I don't care if you don't like his music, but he's getting 50k - 100k views on YouTube on each release lately; and yes, he's doing stuff at 175 again.
What you say is correct, but he no longer labels himself or his music as Hardcore. His disassociation means S3RL fans don't become Hardcore fans as he's cut all the main ties. |
| dj switchback |
He's a hero and I've been a huge fan since '93. It pains me that I don't like his music these days and honestly can't remember the last tune he made that I liked. Shame. But yeah, hero anyway. I'll never like anybody more in music than Force and Styles. To this day they still remain the benchmark. |
| Hard2Get |
No one knows who S3rl is over here. You cannot compare someone like that to Darren Styles based on youtube video views. |
| Samination |
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
No one knows who S3rl is over here. You cannot compare someone like that to Darren Styles based on youtube video views.
only way to have never heard of s3rl is to have never listened to Freeform |
| Vladel |
Styles isn't as bad as Gammer who was quoted as saying the old stuff wasn't technically challenging. Yes it is technically challenging to listen to your new stuff yes you are right. Styles these days strikes me as wanting to be in the big room dubcore club etc but not properly into it, hense he prances about just over the line as to not enrage his long term fans. This is unlike Gammer who openly slates them on Twitter and slags off his own music he used to make, hilarious really. |
| Hard2Get |
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
No one knows who S3rl is over here. You cannot compare someone like that to Darren Styles based on youtube video views.
only way to have never heard of s3rl is to have never listened to Freeform
The point is that he is not a big name. He doesn't play over here so there is very little exposure for people who go to raves. |
| ViolonC |
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
No one knows who S3rl is over here. You cannot compare someone like that to Darren Styles based on youtube video views.
only way to have never heard of s3rl is to have never listened to Freeform
The point is that he is not a big name. He doesn't play over here so there is very little exposure for people who go to raves.
Well, he is a big name, but some people get tunnel vision when it comes to UK hardcore.
|
| Elliott |
quote:
Originally posted by Vladel:
Styles isn't as bad as Gammer who was quoted as saying the old stuff wasn't technically challenging. Yes it is technically challenging to listen to your new stuff yes you are right. Styles these days strikes me as wanting to be in the big room dubcore club etc but not properly into it, hense he prances about just over the line as to not enrage his long term fans. This is unlike Gammer who openly slates them on Twitter and slags off his own music he used to make, hilarious really.
Yep. It pisses me off that Gammer is so quick to slate the music that got him where he is today. He never has to produce another track in the old style if he doesn't want to but to say that it sucks is a huge middle finger to the fans.
The funny thing is that I don't personally see how his new love affair, trap, is more varied or complex than '08 era hardcore. Simple breakbeat drum pattern, same deep, unfolding bass in every track, deliberately abrasive vocal samples and whiny synths with lots of sliding/portamento. Not very good at writing melodies? Just repeat the same note over and over again! How's that for complexity? |
| Elliott |
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by versia:
Disappointing to notice no one has mentioned S3RL. I don't care if you don't like his music, but he's getting 50k - 100k views on YouTube on each release lately; and yes, he's doing stuff at 175 again.
What you say is correct, but he no longer labels himself or his music as Hardcore. His disassociation means S3RL fans don't become Hardcore fans as he's cut all the main ties.
I don't really understand his thought process. Maybe he doesn't have one. He doesn't seem like the smartest cookie in the jar. |
| Elipton |
S3RL compared to Darren Styles is a difficult one and Steve's post raised an eyebrow.
Personally, I think Darren Styles has gotten lucky riding off of his successful history. He's done well both commercially and locally a decade ago, and he's been just active enough to sustain that with events and the occasional trend-following release (and generally for being Hardcore's little pretty-boy). He's done no more than anyone else to get ahead since AATW failed.
S3RL has a bit of a similar story. Had some massive success commercially (with Daddy DJ covers) and locally (on labels like NuE) and he's kept the same style to sustain and arguably grow. He's probably a massive name to have at events, and whilst he's not huge in the UK, but abroad he's by always the first name on peoples lips when you talk about rave, happy hardcore or kandi music (etc etc).
So drawing this down to the foundation of the matter - followings through producing and releasing music - lets see how the numbers add up. Ignoring legacy, history, events attendance and events appearances, I'm curious to see who's music is the most closely followed.
So a track uploaded or revealed recently and a month ago. S3RL has "Old Stuff" from 7 days ago and "R4V3 B0Y" from a month ago. Styles has "Rest of Your Life" (seemingly on Youtube only) and "It's like that" (on Soundcloud)
Old Stuff by S3RL has 40k listens on YT and 11k on SC after 7 days. R4V3 B0Y has 127k listens on YT and 47k listens on SC.
Styles has Rest of Your Life retrieving 9k on Youtube after 2 weeks and It's Like That getting 16k on Soundcloud. Duped.
I know it's highly inaccurate going off silly stats like that, but when Styles has twice as large following on Facebook and a larger following on Soundcloud, you get the impression his music should earn more listens. S3RL's numbers seem consistent, and whilst Youtube is an advantage because he has run it for a long time, it still means his music is heard more globally and he has a larger following as result. Styles may have 'fans' on his pages down to events appearances, past fame or past associations, but a minuscule fraction of them actually listen to his latest tracks - evidently. I'd say he'd be the bigger asset if he still associated himself with the scene. His global reach is huge, whilst Styles' popularity is very concentrated (though I have no doubt he has and can fill an arena in the States) |
| Elliott |
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
Personally, I think Darren Styles has gotten lucky riding off of his successful history. He's done well both commercially and locally a decade ago, and he's been just active enough to sustain that with events and the occasional trend-following release (and generally for being Hardcore's little pretty-boy). He's done no more than anyone else to get ahead since AATW failed.
Really? I mean, the guy has earned the right to coast a little with his track record but I reckon he was still one of the best producers in the scene until very recently. |
| ViolonC |
Funny thing probably is... Hardcore always absorbed the other electronic styles somewhat. But not until recently dance music became mainstream. So there was no need to be critical for the "main stream" influence on hardcore - that little bit that's always there is okay - because dance music wasn't main stream. You may correct me, but i can't recall a Styles track with silly amount of trap in it, even the hollow "big room" kick/bass. Not that i would be mad if there was one. Comparison with Gammer is understandable but he didn't really leave the Hardcore sound (as some would perceive) as Gammer an Breeze did, yet. |
| Hard2Get |
What do you mean? Dance music has always been mainstream. It just wasn't mixed with non-electronic stuff in the way that it is now. |
| Elliott |
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
Funny thing probably is... Hardcore always absorbed the other electronic styles somewhat. But not until recently dance music became mainstream. So there was no need to be critical for the "main stream" influence on hardcore - that little bit that's always there is okay - because dance music wasn't main stream. You may correct me, but i can't recall a Styles track with silly amount of trap in it, even the hollow "big room" kick/bass. Not that i would be mad if there was one. Comparison with Gammer is understandable but he didn't really leave the Hardcore sound (as some would perceive) as Gammer an Breeze did, yet.
For as long as I've been listening, hardcore has just been a 170bpm emulation of whatever was considered popular in dance music at the time. It's telling that so many hardcore remixes over the years have been mere timestretches of the original tracks.
It's a problem now (and people are being critical of it) because the current state of mainstream dance music isn't good and isn't worth replicating. If you speed up shite, you get faster shite. |
| Shades |
Where is the quote of the day thread when you need one lol
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
The current state of mainstream dance music isn't good and isn't worth replicating. If you speed up shite, you get faster shite.
|
| jordesuvi |
As it stands right now. I really enjoy dance music.
Granted that some fakes have earned themselves a slot in a festival lineup somehow but otherwise the creativity and variety dance music offers (if you listen to stuff outside of whatever is in a chart) is phenomenal.
I would actually be interested in seeing hardcore take influence from genre's outside of big room and electro.
Adding sex appeal through moombahton/jersey club influence could be interesting. Or perhaps deeper bass synths instead of layered supersaws could work
By all means I love the traditional UK Hardcore sound but I'm open to the genre expanding and seeing what else it is capable of. |
| Elipton |
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
Personally, I think Darren Styles has gotten lucky riding off of his successful history. He's done well both commercially and locally a decade ago, and he's been just active enough to sustain that with events and the occasional trend-following release (and generally for being Hardcore's little pretty-boy). He's done no more than anyone else to get ahead since AATW failed.
Really? I mean, the guy has earned the right to coast a little with his track record but I reckon he was still one of the best producers in the scene until very recently.
What's he done that's kept him at the apex since he was landing albums and big hits on AATW? |
| Hard2Get |
He's where he is because of what he's done though not because what he is doing now. He has earned himself this status. What he does with it now is up to him. |
| Elipton |
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
He's where he is because of what he's done though not because what he is doing now. He has earned himself this status. What he does with it now is up to him.
You're getting me wrong. He's done a fantastic job and has a plethora of achievements, but his past success has made his fan base at the moment very deceiving. His current form, following and reach are not sufficient for him to be Hardcore's prized asset. |
| nanobii |
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
i'd say he was more than fortunate. in terms of popularity, he is definitely up there. but when it comes to quality, eh... i'll just say that his most popular track is a remix of rainbow road from mario kart 64. take the melody out and it is claps and noise sweeps.
are you serious!? it's a completely original song.
way to go on about how you don't think i'm able to write quality songs and you can't even tell the difference between mario kart 64 soundtrack and my song named 'rainbow road'.
i'm aware i was very fortunate getting a release on monstercat. i'll do my best to get more people into the scene. |
| Elliott |
quote:
Originally posted by nanobii:
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
i'd say he was more than fortunate. in terms of popularity, he is definitely up there. but when it comes to quality, eh... i'll just say that his most popular track is a remix of rainbow road from mario kart 64. take the melody out and it is claps and noise sweeps.
are you serious!? it's a completely original song.
way to go on about how you don't think i'm able to write quality songs and you can't even tell the difference between mario kart 64 soundtrack and my song named 'rainbow road'.
i'm aware i was very fortunate getting a release on monstercat. i'll do my best to get more people into the scene.
I actually like the track and I don't normally care for that style (especially the whole snare 2nds thing).
Personally, I think it's great that Monstercat released a hardcore track regardless. Sadly it seems like it didn't lead to any real increase in hardcore interest. Based on the YT comments for the track, the idiots couldn't even figure out what happy hardcore actually is. |
| oxis |
quote:
Originally posted by nanobii:
are you serious!? it's a completely original song.
way to go on about how you don't think i'm able to write quality songs and you can't even tell the difference between mario kart 64 soundtrack and my song named 'rainbow road'.
sounded extremely similar when i listened to it, but i admit that after listening again i might have speculated more than i should have. my apology & i stand corrected, although i maintain the rest of my post (the rainbow road thing was simply an example). i don't actually believe that rainbow road has that great of a melody whether you wrote it or not :p i am not responsible for the trajectory of your career but i personally wish you go on to make greater and more interesting stuff, as i do for every producer
|
| SPOOX |
quote:
Originally posted by warped_candykid:
I would say during the 90s, he was a lead name, and then of course when he worked under the title "Breeze & Styles"...but after he went solo...that's where I stopped following him. Would I consider him hardcore's most prized assest when you have artists like Al Storm, Scott Brown, Brisk, Dougal, DNA, Stompy, Seduction (and yes, I know some are gone, but they were innovators!), No, I wouldn't.
I agree with you. I stopped listening to Styles choons when he started making shite like Save Me & Flashlight. I HATE male vocals in Hardcore & crap like this is cringeworthy.
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