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ViolonC
Average Member
Germany
243 posts
Joined: Sep, 2014
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 Posted - 2017/03/31 : 22:26:13
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
rafftery, is that you? :P
Anyways, a few years ago Hardstyle (which isn't Hardstyle if you ask purists) took elements that UK Hardcore had used years before that, so whos' copying who actually? :P
Okay, now i get it. :D
Anyway i'm pretty sure for 3 out of 4 of those elements i'll find you the gerne that had used them even before Hardcore.
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2017/03/31 : 22:32:06
It's the third rebirth, and it's an alignment.
We're a year or so away from the hoorah, but it won't involve two year old Edm noises as a major theme.
Reclaim Pride. The signs are there.
CDJay
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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/03/31 : 22:51:26
I've said it a thousand times before - there is nothing at all wrong with progression and change, but that doesn't have to mean copying the latest fad and expecting everybody else to follow in order to stay relevant.
Rehashing the same old shit?
Or
Rehashing somebody else's old shit?
I know which I'd choose.
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Taking my time to perfect the beat
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Edited by - djDMS on 2017/03/31 23:18:56 |
Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/03/31 : 22:52:20
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
rafftery, is that you? :P
Anyways, a few years ago Hardstyle (which isn't Hardstyle if you ask purists) took elements that UK Hardcore had used years before that, so whos' copying who actually? :P
Okay, now i get it. :D
Anyway i'm pretty sure for 3 out of 4 of those elements i'll find you the gerne that had used them even before Hardcore.
Nobody cares. We weren't wanking ourselves off over masterful transitions between time signatures or inspired uses of the Balinese pentatonic scale. We were too busy buzzing to music we actually enjoyed. Nobody gave a shit where it came from.
Although I actually agree with Sam's point regarding hardstyle, my entire point is who the **** cares?
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i gave up producing
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Edited by - Elliott on 2017/03/31 22:56:47 |
Impulse_Response
Advanced Member
United States
724 posts
Joined: Jun, 2013
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Posted - 2017/03/31 : 22:59:13
I keep seeing the comments about UK artists "selling out" to pursue the US market, and it makes me curious - is the EDM sound more popular here than in the UK or elsewhere?
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Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/03/31 : 23:14:15
quote:
Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
I keep seeing the comments about UK artists "selling out" to pursue the US market, and it makes me curious - is the EDM sound more popular here than in the UK or elsewhere?
The way that we use the term "EDM" on this forum is kind of a misnomer (perhaps because the term has never really caught on in the UK and is openly mocked by DNB and grime MCs). We're referring to quite a specific sound. "Echoey" big room kicks, clean bass sounds and weak, whiny, "monolayer" leads with a lot of portamento or tape-stop style effects on them. At least 90% of the hardcore you'll see people on here complaining about conforms to that archetype.
I can only speak for my area (and it does vary quite a lot in the UK) but we're not overly enamoured with that sound. Nonetheless, it is the predominant style in mainstream dance music right now and that applies pretty much everywhere. When it comes to the most commercial stuff, trends tend to be cross-Atlantic to a fairly large extent (although Europe has an even higher internal concordance).
I think it's more a case that the US has shown signs of being more receptive to the style of hardcore currently being pushed. People are seeing the likes of Gammer and Styles get booked at big US festivals and they're seeing the opportunity for a "clean break" from the baggage of the UK scene where things have been in freefall for many years. Like it or not, half a dozen people decide the musical direction of the entire scene and those people couldn't figure out how to reinvigorate the UK scene. Their answer seems to be to attempt to cross over to the US with a concomitant change in musical direction, which, as usual, has propagated down through the scene hierarchy resulting in hardcore maintaining its uniformity (ironically that which many of its current proponents profess to despise).
Whether hardcore sounds like it does because it started to (allegedly) take off in the US or whether the US is becoming more receptive to hardcore because it sounds like it does now is a classic chicken-and-egg question. I don't think there's a simple answer. It seems to be a feedback loop coming from the very top: Gammer and Styles produce tune X -> tune X is well-received in the US and leads to festival bookings -> everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and starts to produce their own tune Xs -> Gammer and Styles get lots of bookings -> Gammer and Styles produce tune X2 (note that at no point in this cycle or sequence does anyone except the huge names really benefit from any of this).
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Edited by - Elliott on 2017/03/31 23:28:02 |
ViolonC
Average Member
Germany
243 posts
Joined: Sep, 2014
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Posted - 2017/03/31 : 23:50:38
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
Nobody cares. We weren't wanking ourselves off over masterful transitions between time signatures or inspired uses of the Balinese pentatonic scale. We were too busy buzzing to music we actually enjoyed. Nobody gave a shit where it came from.
Although I actually agree with Sam's point regarding hardstyle, my entire point is who the **** cares?
You at least enough to write a reply. And some ppl here have been complaining that it's EDM that's been ripped off as the newest development. Apparently they care, too. Because it's the only thing: care what to rip off next. ;)
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/01 : 00:05:47
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
...and expecting everybody else to follow in order to stay relevant.
This is the real cancer of the hardcore scene. There never seems to be room for more than one major style. A lot of people wouldn't be complaining if we still had a healthy selection of trancey, supersaw-driven hardcore.
Nobody will ever convince me that everyone gave up that style of their own volition. Too many people held on for too long. I've spoken to several artists (probably broadly considered somewhere in the middle of the pack) who stopped producing hardcore because they felt that continuing with their favoured sound was a dead end.
It's a subtle system of peer pressure and outright dictatorship that determines the dominant style rather than any real artistic preference (except for perhaps the chosen few) or democratic choice and that's a sad state of affairs. Rising through the ranks in hardcore is just a function of how prepared you are to compromise your artistic integrity and conform to the norm.
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Edited by - Elliott on 2017/04/01 00:12:50 |
Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/01 : 00:53:23
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that.
Legit
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing?
You're giving us far too much credit. We're just a dozen forum obsessives: the hardcore of the hardcore hardcore. Nothing we say about anything actually matters (well, except that time Gammer wasted a solid hour of his time making a diss track aimed at me -- but that says far more about him than me).
What's the point of having a discussion forum if not to have these kinds of debates? Sure, they come up ad nauseum but I'd say it's actually a welcome relief from the never-ending soap opera that is the hardcore scene. If I wanted to splatter Gammer's Pigface with my cum, I'd join the bukkake hivemind on Soundcloud. To each their own.
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway?
That's a leading question but even if we accept the implicit proposition, hardcore is thieving its way around the world right now.
Devalue hardcore? Maybe. A lot of people are rightly pissed off that they've chosen to piggyback off the "happy hardcore" label with music that neither resembles "happy" nor particularly "hardcore". To some people, this will be the only "happy hardcore" they ever know and some of us don't want this current crop to be considered a representation of our beloved genre.
There was a great post about genres earlier. I forgot who made it. The original Woodstock crowd probably feel very much the same way as we do about what passes for "rock" music these days.
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
Both. Although the way you've expressed the latter sentiment makes us sound rather pathetic. I already addressed the former.
Gammer has been very disparaging about '00s hardcore, including even his own work in that period, over the last few years. In a response to me, he stopped just short of saying "my old music was shit and you're an idiot if you liked it" (honestly, I'm barely paraphrasing here).
He doesn't have to "love us" anymore but I think that any successful person or business owes a basic level of respect to the people who put them where they are and, generally speaking, that would include not calling beloved products shit and labelling us neanderthals for having bought them.
Anyone who was a fan of Gammer in the '00s (and I'm not ashamed to say that he was one of my musical idols back then) and has kept up with proceedings recognise that he seems to want to pretend that the '00s never happened. Mystifying at best; insulting at worst.
It's a shame that he underwent a personality transplant and/or lobotomy sometime in about 2012. He went from being this geeky kid - like a lot of us - who just loved playing around with sounds and faders to an overly-opinionated, conceited, sarcastic hipster ******* (and I'm definitely not in the minority in thinking that he's changed a whole lot, even if I express it in harsh terms). I can't imagine '00s Gammer telling his own fans to love his new shit or go **** themselves. I guess, though, that this was just his underlying personality all along. Sometimes it takes fame and an endless supply of e-sycophants to bring out one's true character.
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
This is just disingenuous. Yes, there are half a dozen semi-prolific (and oft-struggling) labels still trying to keep the happier sounds alive. Their stuff constitutes no more than a few percent of the overall scene output and an utterly negligible percentage when weighted by importance. There was more diversity when the scene was split into supersaw anthems and what was commonly - and incorrectly - referred to as dubcore. If this music was easy to find or plentiful, I wouldn't be having this conversation and I certainly would've have my own thread on here dedicated to finding it.
Sure, new artists could fill the vacuum but for well-known reasons that I've already gone into in this thread, they're unlikely to do so. A handful of people are still doing it for the love of the game, like I was, but few of us got close to the requisite production standards, which is actually why I personally gave up -- I got sick of not being able to make my tracks sound as good as I wanted them. Anyway, hobbyists can only achieve so much and hobbyists are all the hope we have for the future.
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i gave up producing
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,084 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/04/01 : 06:20:18
Elliott: The Golden Era is jsut a reference to a specific time period, not when it was selling the most. In comics, the Golden age is around the 30-40 (or earlier?), but I wouldn't be suprised if comics sold the best around 90-2000.
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/01 : 11:04:31
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
Elliott: The Golden Era is jsut a reference to a specific time period, not when it was selling the most. In comics, the Golden age is around the 30-40 (or earlier?), but I wouldn't be suprised if comics sold the best around 90-2000.
I didn't mean to imply that equivalence. My idea of hardcore's golden era, which is obviously subjective anyway, just happens to have a large overlap with when it was most commercially successful.
Edit: Outside of the '90s of course.
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Edited by - Elliott on 2017/04/01 11:09:58 |
Doc Mcfly
Starting Member
United States
8 posts
Joined: Mar, 2017
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Posted - 2017/04/06 : 17:36:48
My problem with new UK Hardcore is that its been turned into sped up electro house. Its not UK Hardcore anymore. Its EDM crap. In my opinion the 1992-2008 era was the best of Hardcore. Soaring supersaws, fat kick drums, gorgeous piano riffs, groovy breakbeats, deep beautiful pads, massive string synths, etc. Now its all just wub wub and bloop bloop.
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Smoogie
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,483 posts
Joined: Mar, 2006
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 Posted - 2017/04/06 : 21:15:29
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Mcfly:
My problem with new UK Hardcore is that its been turned into sped up electro house. Its not UK Hardcore anymore. Its EDM crap. In my opinion the 1992-2008 era was the best of Hardcore. Soaring supersaws, fat kick drums, gorgeous piano riffs, groovy breakbeats, deep beautiful pads, massive string synths, etc. Now its all just wub wub and bloop bloop.
Hardcore has always been 'sped up' something though.
We had sped up pop music, IE Happy Hardcore, sped up Trance, IE Raverbaby and now sped up Electro?
Also there is/ was Freeform which is/was sped up Hard House, dare I say it!
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,084 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/04/07 : 03:40:38
Well Freeform did have a little bit of it's own identity back in the early 2000 to mid 2000
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Bring Me Round To Love
Junior Member
United Kingdom
116 posts
Joined: Mar, 2016
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Posted - 2017/04/07 : 10:20:15
I always check out Gammers new tracks, the red drink party one, not sure if its for real or just him takin the piss, horrible sound alease to my ears.
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Gammer styles breeze etc new sound
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