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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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 Posted - 2004/09/03 : 16:36:14
Dunno if anyone has posted this topic before so sorry if they have because i seen something similar on another site a while back but didn't take much notice of it at the time but something happened to make me think about it some more. The real question i'm saying is do you think one of the reasons new style hardcore still has a relatively small following because people associate the name with out of date soundin repetitive stuff with squeaky voices etc. The reason i'm posting this is i work in a large office and most of my co workers are sort of trendy types for want of a better word i.e spiky haired like club music etc. The other day i was workin at the weekend so the office was fairly quiet i started playing a dj brisk set from the next gen site which had no Mc's for the first 30 mins. In this time i had loadsa my co workers sayin how good it was and asking what it was. When i said hardcore they didn't believe it at first but when i explained things have changed with trance influence etc they understood and asked if i could get them some cd's of the new stuff cos they liked it that much. After work when i went into town with them and when i showed them the new bonkers cd they nearly rolled about the ground laughing couldn't believe the crazy cd's with cartoons they used to buy years ago where still being made. But yet they bought them and all week they've been blarin them out their cars on the way to work. These are the same people that when in my house and i go to put on the decks and i say i'm gonna play hardcore cringe so i have to do a trance set to keep them happy and they dont give the hardcore a chance. Whether or not you want hardcore to be more popular is another long and boring issue we've all discussed many times but do you think that if hardcore was renamed speed dance or something more people would get into it?
Venga la familia makineros
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steve O
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,128 posts
Joined: Oct, 2003
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Posted - 2004/09/03 : 16:51:03
^^^ Had a simialr experience at my new job wen a co worker asked what music i was into and i replied hardcore and makina. Their response was 'urgh, who listens to happy hardcore and what the hell is makina?'
So i replied that i dnt listen to happy hardcore, i listento hardcore which is totally different. So basically he didnt have a clue what hardcore was. I cudnt explain to him what it was.
The only way to explain what makina was to tell him it is the type of music played at the New Monkey and the Hangar 13 to which he replied 'urgh charver music'. I then tried to suffocate him with a salmon for being so narrow minded.
I think the problem with the name hardcore is that ppl associate it with happy hardcore which IMO is a totally different genre (i know this is HHC.com but im bettin that 90% of the ppl on here prefer nu style hardcore - thats everything from scott brown, brisk and breeze and styles to sharkey and kev energy etc) I dnt like the fact that hardcore gets compared to happy hardcore as happy hardcore is the hardcore of the 90's really and ppl r too narrow minded to see that hardcore is a totally diffrent genre now and has evolved, as all other music styles have.
Im gonna stop there coz i cud go on 4 ages and i would end upconfusing myself with my own vies lol!
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/09/03 : 17:19:06
Personally I think happy hardcore is excellent and you can hardly call newer hardcore a new genre even if there is alot of difference. I personally think it's all good but then I love cheese as much as I love dirt. I wouldn't say 90% of people on this site prefer the newer stuff!
Anyway your prob. right not so much about the name but I think the newer stuff is more commercially acceptable but not many people are likely to hear it.
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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2004/09/03 : 17:33:08
I wasn't trying to say anythin bad about old happy style that was the era i got into the music and i still love the tunes but only so many have kept their appeal to me while many others now sound outdated and boring the same way some records i'm buying now won't stand the test of time. All i'm trying to say is to 95%+ of the population that style has been and gone ages ago and they dont hear newer stuff because to them they think hardcore stopped being made in about 98 and they have moved onto different things since then. They now see hardcore as crazy music they listened to when they were younger but when they're exposed to some of the more easy accesible tracks from next generation etc they like what they hear. Hardcore seems to be treated like a dirty word with some people and if they're told it's hardcore before they hear something they make up there mind they dont like it before they hear it. As i said in the original post i'm not wanting a discussion about whether we want these kind of people at raves or whether we want them into hardcore as well. I just think if it did change names whether a good or a bad thing more people would give it a chance here in the u.k anyway.
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/09/03 : 17:42:06
Dont think the name matters too much, I do think alot more people would listen to hardcore if they actually sat and listened to the newer stuff though yeah like I said above it's more commercially acceptable.
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B.C
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,747 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
35 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/09/03 : 17:56:03
Interesting topic, Ive had similar problems since the ressurection c.2002
i think the name has been slightly tarnished with the older happy style and I agree that nu-style is very different from the old whistle and chipmunk (which I still hold dear to my heart). IMO a new name would mean an open mind which is always good from the scene's point of view.
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JesterDJ
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,486 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2004/09/03 : 21:12:04
i know the sorta thing your sayin there mate, and that is actually a bloody good question so first off thanx for bringin a real interesting topic to the forum for a change as opposed to the usual crap.
now i have also thought about this before, and i think that generally people can get hardcore very confused with other genres because they don't know anything about anything in regards to the rave scene; i mean my own boss said to me when i was listening to some hardcore that it was house (i nearly battered him) and even though i showed him a few songs to try and educate him to what it really is and what the difference is between house and hardcore, he refused to accept what it is. This brought me to a couple of conclusions.
firstly, people need to have a decent scope of musical knowledge of genres in general before going into the sub genres of those types to be able to really understand them properly (i.e. what u were sayin about it being called speed dance, may actually help coz then those that don't know about hardcore but do about dance in general would give hardcore a chance thinking "oooh its just a new type of club music", however i think this may also attract the wrong type of crowds where they do not understand what hardcore is really about etc etc).
secondly, and quite interlinked with the first point i made, people don't give hardcore the time of day coz they think they know it already havin looked at other genres in clubs not knowing what they are (old skool for example) and merely thinkin its an adaptation of it.
Really, i'm not sure that a name change really would make a difference to its popularity etc in the long run. it may act as advertising and pull in a few more people that just don't know about it yet, but i don't think it would really make the difference coz many people are already quite opinionated about what some music is where they are bombarded by it 24/7 on radios etc. ok true radio plays nothing to do with hardcore or the like but there is still music and it makes people create their views from a young age. since hardcore is not so publicised, it is harder for it to get into people's hearts as it is basically a foreign type of music to many (which i think is a shame but hey, not much i can do about it eh?  )
right enough of my ramblings and i'll sum up.
point one, the name hardcore being changed to "speed dance" would have a temporary effect, and point two, it is hard to keep this new interest in the masses alive because many do not appreciate the genres and ub genres enough to give them a) the time of day to test them, and b) are not used to the sounds thy will hear so will not want to accept it.
phew.......and i'm spent
 Always remember; you are unique, just like everyone else
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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2004/09/04 : 05:08:09
You've got a very good head on you jester and i very much agree with what your saying about human nature and what your exposed to and what you end up liking. Not many people share the same love for music as us and dont look into it that much it's just music to them and if it's something catchy they hear on the radio day in day out they like it. But say people that like clubbing music like trance, hard trance, techno, hard house etc which has a bigger following than hardcore would really like a lot of the new material as i saw with the people i work with. They just hate the thought of admitting they like hardcore and to be honest i'm glad raves aren't full of these type of people because it's fickle. I just was fascinated at the fact they loved it as soon as they didnt have the brand hardcore stamped across it before they heard it, and wanted to see what other people on the site thought about it. Tbh as well i think some of the new stuff is a totally different genre i've been listenin to the breeze and styles set on the john peel show and that to me and many others is not hardcore. I love their production but i also love a lot of trance but i just cant seem to think of it as real hardcore, it's totally different imo. Anyway thanks for the post think you explained a lot of the points i was trying to make but didnt do properly.
Venga la familia makineros
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hardcore anorak
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
971 posts
Joined: May, 2004
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Posted - 2004/09/04 : 11:38:10
i dont think u should re name it no way every1 or most people since the beginin ave slated hardcore but as it died and will it die no dont change the name for more people to like it eventually most people will hear and no the sound/scene hardcore all us ravers no it and ave all ways known it as hardcore so i dont think the name should b changed
s.shaw
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Stony McTony
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
534 posts
Joined: May, 2004
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Posted - 2004/09/04 : 13:13:18
i think it would definitely get the genre more popular. i know so many trancers n hard dancers who've scowled at me wen i start talkin about hardcore n refusin to listen to it cos its "that squeeky crap" but when they actually hear it theyre minds are changed, i dont think u'd convert the whole nation to hardcore lovers but u'd certainly get a lot of ppl who wernt into it into it if u changed the name, thing is theyd never kno they were into hardcore cos itd be called speed dance which would be mightly confusing
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JesterDJ
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United Kingdom
1,486 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2004/09/04 : 15:44:32
well as i said i think a wave of people coming into the genre would be just a wave that would calm down shortly after. it'll confuse you, if you let it; those that enjoy it enough will make a point to pursue their new taste and find out its roots etc, bringing more real followers to the genre that just hadn't discovered it yet. Like all of us discovered it and are now passionate about it; although they won't have the same enjoyment of discovering it the same way that we have, finding it out for ourselves but being spoon fed it to begin with.
this is a shame but nevertheless, after the blitzkrieg of new people trying it out, a few will remain and they will stick with the scene; regardless of how they came about listening to it
Always remember; you are unique, just like everyone else
*.*Jester*.*
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StarRizerX
Average Member
United States
221 posts
Joined: Feb, 2004
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Posted - 2004/09/04 : 23:36:50
Damnit I hate how everyone says that Hardcore is totally different from Happy Hardcore an that the two names shouldn't be associated. The truth is, they're the same thing. If you like Hardcore, then somewhere along the timeline you have "liked" Happy Hardcore.
Hardcore that is "Happy" and makes you feel good should be called "Happy Hardcore," not just Hardcore. People don't like to associate Hardcore and HAppy Hardcore because of the name's reputation with the past, that's all.
I think that true hardcore enthusiasts don't care what it's called, as long as the same artists are making stuff in the 170-190 BPM range with Kick Drums. The new stuff is basically a transformation of the older "Happy" stuff, with uplifting vocals and piano melodies. That was "Happy" and that was "Hardcore." Hence the name "Happy Hardcore" should still be accepted.
If people disassociate their love from the roots, WTF is the scene worth? Nothing.
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Artemis
Starting Member
United Kingdom
16 posts
Joined: Sep, 2003
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Posted - 2004/09/05 : 00:59:50
I wouldn't like to see a name change as I love hardcore and it means something to me.
BUT if more people could admit they liked it then maybe there would be more events locally and we wouldn't have to travel so far!
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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,637 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2004/09/05 : 01:24:56
hmm, interesting one, i see the problem, however i've actually only had it happen once to me.
when it comes to a name change. i think the important thing is to ask
"who are you changing it for?"
because if it is for the people who say stuff like that, then when you change it, they're just going to say "*****?...dont you just mean hardcore* - in which case, no point changing it, they're opinion wont change until they've heard Nu-Skool stuff. so pointless there.
however to new people to the scene who dont know about it, will not know about happy hardcore's past - (which is also a reason many people complain about newbies not knowing the original hhc songs), so the old style will not be associated with the nu-style anyway, no tarnish there.
i would have thought it would be hard to diss-associate the name hardcore from its past by changing the name, beacause they are roughly the same speed...
why fix somthing that isnt really broken..
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Indy Tentman
New Member
Canada
20 posts
Joined: Sep, 2004
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Posted - 2004/09/05 : 02:05:03
URB said in a Bassment Jaxx likkle electronic music styles after 98 are fiddling out of idea and groups like Jaxx and Prod are the only UK game (?).
So in my IMO if happy hardcore continues on it's path it will be fair to good results for a furry scene.
Attack the dance floor like a bulldozer
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Indy Tentman
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Canada
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Joined: Sep, 2004
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Posted - 2004/09/05 : 02:55:05
URB said in a Bassment Jaxx likkle electronic music styles after 98 are fiddling out of idea and groups like Jaxx and Prod are the only UK game (?).
So in my IMO if happy hardcore continues on it's path it will be fair to good results for a furry scene.
Attack the dance floor like a bulldozer
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