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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,147 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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 Posted - 2024/12/07 : 16:15:29
Hello, old friendos. Lovely to see you all again. Hope you're well!
I'm trying to get back into production for the first time since 2016. As some of you know, I have a disabling immune disorder that has left me unable to work (or do much of anything), so this is around that time of year when I can sort of afford to buy music software. I already have my FLS perpetual license with Gross Beat etc.
I still want to keep making 2000s-style supersaw driven stuff but with modern production values and some concessions to modern styles. After over a decade of bitching, I've finally accepted most subgenres of EDMcore as part of the hardcore canon -- one that's here to stay.
What VST instruments are people using to make hardcore nowadays? Are you using any vocal synths (if so, which ones are good)? And, if you like, what are your favourite VSTs for EQ, filtering, reverb, compression, limiting etc.? Are you deploying AI-assisted tools in your workflow? And what are you using for mastering (maybe even mixing with some modern tools)?
Over time, I've accumulated legit copies of Sylenth, Nexus, V-Station/Bass Station, and that free Access Virus emulator (I think there's only the one major one?). Massive is very affordable but I'm not sure how much it's used in modern hardcore -- I'm guessing it would've been very popular in the "dubcore" sidechain-everything era. Serum is eye-wateringly expensive for a one-off soft synth but I've heard it's one of the new must-haves. Is that true?
Also, if anyone is feeling generous, I'd be grateful if you could set me up with some of your favourite kick samples and bass preset combos that are ready to go. I've always getting the right kick/bass feel to be one of the hardest parts (and, unfortunately, the most "underratedly" important) of getting started on a track. It sucks a lot of energy out of me to go through packs of 600 kickdrums. Plus, I've lost a lot of my ear for samples so need time and help to redevelop it. AND I'm still mired in the days of Vengeance drum packs being the alpha and omega.
Sound off on your favourite VSTs/VSTis! Price is no object for the purposes of this thread, even if it's a practical impediment for many hobbyists like me. This is the time of the year when discounts mean we can vaguely afford to stretch our budgets beyond the usual.
Obviously I love Sylenth. It's been one of the backbones of UKHC since the height of the supersaw era and is excellent for both basses and leads. Even today, I'd imagine it's essential. I don't think there's a VSTi more closely associated with hardcore than Sylenth and I don't think Sylenth is more tightly interwoven with a genre than hardcore. But I'm looking to diversify my portfolio of sounds. I'm still very much an advocate of the supersaw but I want to expand my horizons.
Thanks a lot, friends.
Love,
Elliott, making my (not so) glorious return to mixing and production and the internet
P.S. It's a real issue that we still can't find all our own posts on this forum. I'd like to go on a nostalgia trip but... I mean, I admire the fact that this appears to have built from the ground up in original ASP(!) in the '90s but it's solely lacking features that are just standard in every single forum software made this millennium. :p
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old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Edited by - Elliott on 2024/12/07 16:20:14 |
Si Thompson
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,473 posts
Joined: Mar, 2016
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Posted - 2024/12/07 : 19:39:55
DUNE 3 and Serum for synths. I would also grab the Korg TRITON. I actually prefer it to the M1.
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Si Thompson
https://soundcloud.com/si-thompson
The Rave Music Archive
https://soundcloud.com/the_rave_music_archive
https://www.youtube.com/c/theravemusicarchive
Kool Katz Digital
https://soundcloud.com/kool-katz-digital
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DJ_FunDaBounce
Advanced Member
Colombia
2,114 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2024/12/07 : 20:02:15
Hey, Elliott! Been a while! Hope you're doing well! :)
After Serum and Spire, it seems as though the innovation in synths has slowed down. I'm constantly bombarded by ads for vintage synth emulations.
I haven't checked in a while to see if this is still a thing (just checked, it is.) but I got my serum on a rent-to-own plan from splice.com for like 10 USD a month.
I'm personally still into the late 90's early 2000's sounds, though the hardstyle leads I do feel a need to tackle at some point. My suggestion to you is that you just get doing what you feel. Don't feel like the times need to impose some kind of standard.
I'm currently on Cubase 13 pro and Reason 10, still running my old faves (z3ta/2, sylenth, massive, m1, etc.)
Mastering: running some some Izotope stuff. as well as T-Racks 5. There are a few newish plug ins that kinda have their place in modern setups, like Reference 2 from "Mastering the mix".
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"Fun with a capital F-D-B!"
http://www.brightspeedrecordings.com/
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Edited by - DJ_FunDaBounce on 2024/12/07 20:08:05 |
Captain Triceps
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,214 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2024/12/08 : 11:40:14
Good to see you're still around mate!
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Some of my remixes, original tracks and mixes here:
https://soundcloud.com/bradders-tracks-and-remix
https://soundcloud.com/bradders1982
https://soundcloud.com/paulbradley1982
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Padmac
Starting Member
United Kingdom
6 posts
Joined: Nov, 2018
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Posted - 2024/12/28 : 21:07:12
Hey mate - I'd echo your point completely re. forum features.
RE. Essential VSTs, I'd say most of my music involves:
Serum
Spire
Sylenth
Dune 3
VMS MBC
ArtsAcoustic reverb
FabFilter Pro
Izotope Ozone 11 (or at least some features).
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Kalymero
Starting Member
Canada
4 posts
Joined: Sep, 2007
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Posted - 2025/11/13 : 06:57:04
Nowadays, we don't always need to pay for stuff.
Vital = The free alternative to Serum that sounds just as great: https://vital.audio/#getvital
SurgeXT is very complete and can sound as clean and as nasty as you want it to: https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/
There are a lot more like an oberheim recreation from DiscoDSP, that same DSP dev also does the TI and the SuperNova is incoming as well as the NordLead 2 and some waldorf stuff.
A lot of the modern techniques could easily be done in FL with a bit of creativity and make-do attitude. For example, we'll sidechain just about anything to anything and FL Peak is a very good tool for that as it acts as an envelope follower, which is basically what a sidechain does anyway, kinda. So you could make your own kind of dynamic EQ with it, it would be a tad different but it would work.
A list of free stuff: https://bedroomproducersblog.com/free-vst-plugins/
You could also check for some Linux open source plugins, which will also have some stuff for windows and macOS.
For mixing and mastering, we went on to clean our stuff as much as possible before doing anything to it so removing these annoying resonant freqs is a must. Then you comp and saturate, to clean again, then re-do some other processing again.
We also went in somehow different directions as to how to use our synths. Many times, we'll make a simple Sawtooth patch, but we'll use clever processing to achieve different results.
On other times, we'll layer supersaws so your Sylenth will work well for that. Get a supersaw layer super wide, then add a less wide on top, another less wide on top and so on. Do a bit of super-square and super triangle in the lot, process it individually but also as a bus.
FabFilter Saturn is a must because it's a very clean and useful multiband saturator plugin, but you could achieve similar by routing your sound to a few other mixer channels, use filters and/or EQ as the entry point of your plugin chain to divide that signal into a few bands, then apply your overdrive, or saturator or whatever of your choice to each band, which is also a type of processing we are very into nowadays as it helps to keep things clean but still massive.
We still layer, we still pan, we still automate, we still sidechain everything to the kick but only its lowband. So you could also do that multiband multiple mixer channel trick, route everything to one bus and route that bus to two tracks then divide it into a low band and the other the rest band, remove the bus from going to the master so that only the other two bands go to it, and apply your FL Peak or sidechain on the low band track. Send these two tracks to the master with the rest or to a bus first to apply processing and so on.
If you absolutely want plugins, yeah Serum 2 is a must. But tbh, you could easily make great hardcore choons with what you have right now and creative use of the tools in FL.
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Kalymero
Starting Member
Canada
4 posts
Joined: Sep, 2007
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Posted - 2025/11/13 : 07:09:44
I forgot to add, for samples we'll still use the same old samples sometimes, but we'll process them so they're real clean, or we'll layer them infinitely until we get new sounds we love and fits more a modern genre. In FL, we have a few fun tools in the "sampler" that is attached to any samples dropped into the sequencer or the arrenger, and some of them can add that kind of plastic punchyness, while others will drastically change the sample properties. But we also kinda all went on the Splice bandwagon, it's fun, easy and we always get new sounds. It's quite expensive for your situation tho, so you could get something like ADSR Sample Manager which is free and would accomplish a similar job.
To get the kick and the bass right, remember we used to play with the ADSR or the length of these two so they fit in a "bouncy/stompy" manner. Nowadays, it isn't rare for the sake of cleanliness and loudness that our kick will be only 1/4 of a beat, leaving a 1/4 space between it and the bass, and the bass will occupy a bit more space, either a full 1/8 of a beat, or a 1/4 too but with some release, or a 3/4 of half beat, or even begin it on the kick, but use sidechain to duck it so it pumps into place.
If you decide to go the pump into place route, you could create a single beat automation of its gain or a few EQ bands, and simply copy/paste that 1 beat automation over and over again where it's needed. Bonus points, you'll get way more control over its feeling in the track this way.
We also tend to add a separate layer for our mono sub-bass, usually a sine wave an octave lower, and our main bass sits on top. The sub bass will be an offbeat, but the top would be that "brought into place" I talked about.
To clean these old Vengeance samples, I would recommend to automate your EQ bands, or if you have a spectral EQ tool to do it, then use that. So you will need the high end for the attack of the kick, but you prob won't need it all the way, so you could automate an high end band to drop in DB as the kick plays and therefore, clean some of its dirt.
You can also try and find the annoying freq resonance then drop these a bit or automate their drop points over the course of the kick length.
For comp settings, we use the same as before I guess, -12 to -17db threshold, long attack so 30 to 50ms, shortest release, about 2:0:0 of ratio, and then make up the gain so it fits the before the comp, then a limiter.
In some instances, we'll still boost around 100 to 120hz on the kick to give it that thump feel, but also to help it be louder on smartphones speakers and such.
As you can see, we haven't changed much of how we do things. We simply went a different direction but we kept many of our routes.
Difference is instead of keeping a constant large cut on a sound for a vocal to shine through, now we'll use the vocal as the input to do that large cut automatically, or do many small cuts here and there so the lead drops only in certain areas and only when the vocals play but comes back to a stronger/louder state when it can. Which FL Peak and EQ can do for you.
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