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 Music discussion - hardcore
 Gabber, Extreme right-wing youth culture growing
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mark-ireland
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Ireland
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Posted - 2004/08/24 :  03:09:06  Show profile Send a private message  Visit mark-ireland's homepage
Extreme right-wing youth culture growing
Searchlight, April 2003

In 1996, a large segment of Dutch youth culture was dominated by the so-called "Gabbers" and their music, "Gabber house", which is very fast and has a heavy beat.

As well as a sound, "Gabber" was also a style and, in the big cities, like Amsterdam and Rotterdam, but also in a lot of smaller places, there emerged groups of (mainly white) boys with shaved heads and training suits, who hung around in groups on the streets, went to legal and illegal house parties and used drugs. Although they have no formal organisation or structures, the "Gabbers" declare themselves proud of their city and country and oppose the multicultural society.

Because of the mushrooming of this subculture at the time and the import of, and mixing with, other subcultures and non- political ideas in the scene, the more hardline racist slogans tended to disappear into the background.

Nevertheless, a hardcore of racists kept a foothold in the "Gabber" milieu and some were recruited by fascist parties like the now outlawed CP'86, even if their use of drugs was often a problem for the "political soldier"-type activities of the fascists. In the end, however, CP'86 was not very successful recruiting them, and, when the organisation broke apart, activity directed towards the "Gabbers" effectively ceased.

Four years on, in 2000, the "Gabber" scene collapsed, but ex- "Gabbers" remained active in some towns and turned back to racism, on various occasions even resorting to violence, together with organised fascists, launching attacks on refugees and their homes. Foreign shops and snack bars were also targeted and terrorised.

From 2000, these ex-"Gabbers"‚ started behaving and dressing more and more like racist skinheads and were increasingly mobilised and more or less organised by Stormfront Nederland, another fascist organisation. This outfit was able to attract many ex-"Gabbers" to its meetings where rabble-rousing hate speeches and heavy drinking formed the main part of an evening's "discussion".

Stormfront Nederland, however, has gone the same way as many other nazi groups before it, because the more events it staged, the more unwelcome attention it drew from the mass media, the law and anti-fascists.

The catalyst for Stormfront Nederland's demise was a big fight at a hate rock concert in Geleen, in Limburg near the German border, a fiasco which cost the nazis their popularity among skinheads. At the same time, members of Stormfront were convicted for crimes like racial violence or daubing a Jewish cemetery with swastikas.

As a result of the opposition and opprobrium, Stormfront Nederland's leaders proved incapable of holding the group together and, in any case, were too spaced out on booze and drugs to organise any more meetings. Thus, by 2002, Stormfront Nederland evaporated.

That, unfortunately, was not the end of the story because, in February this year, public concern discussion about right-wing youth culture hit the headlines again, occasioned by problems at a school in Landgraaf, near Limburg, where apparel like army boots, bomber jackets and the Lonsdale brand were banned. The school's board of governors decided on this drastic measure because of an increase in racist behaviour by pupils wearing such gear. The move was not popular with the students who made a declaration claiming that "Lonsdale-clothes are used by the "house" culture, which is against racism". Some of the pupils claimed to support the slogan "Gabbers‚ against racism and fascism" but other pupils said that the ban on the clothing was "a victory for the Turks".

Since the attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York, tension has grown between young people of different ethnic origins, leading some groups to fall back on ethnic identity and their own group and culture. Thus, young Turks and Moroccans, but also Moluccans, for example, are wearing their national flags on their jackets, rap culture youth are wearing their characteristic hats, wide trousers and chains etc. and some white youth have started to kit themselves out as skinheads.

Other schools are suffering the same problems as in Landgraaf and the same controversial measures are being taken but it is also tensions outside the educational world that are causing attitudes to harden amongst young people and generating divisions between them.

The late Pim Fortuyn, who sensed these splits more than any other politician in Dutch society and exploited them for political gain, contributed massively to the widening gap between migrants and the Dutch. Because of Fortuyn, who accused the "left elite" of turning migrants into a taboo subject, an "everything has to be said" culture has arisen.

To this can be added the strident anti-immigrant signals emanating from members of the government, the List Pim Fortuyn (LPF), the right- wing liberals of the VVD and the media, still in shock from the unforeseen rise of Fortuyn, which now emphasises the problems of immigration in a bid to to appear "objective".

The result has been a tangible heightening of racial friction exemplified by a recent case in which, after a magazine interview, police arrested two boys aged 15 and 16 years old. The two had proclaimed in the interview that "throwing a Molotov cocktail at a Turkish coffee house is OK" and that "it's impossible to send all foreigners back, so killing them, as Hitler did, is an option".

Schools, youth workers and anti-fascists now face a big challenge of keeping young people out of the hands of the fascist parties.

By Jeroen Bosch of Alert! in Utrecht

taken from : http://www.xs4all.nl/~afa/alert/engels/sl4_2_2003.html

------------------------------
We will not compromise quality for popularity amongst the minority.


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mark-ireland
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Ireland
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Posted - 2004/08/24 :  03:09:53  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit mark-ireland's homepage
What are peoples view on this?

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We will not compromise quality for popularity amongst the minority.


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Blue Frequency
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United States
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Posted - 2004/08/24 :  08:29:56  Show profile  Send a private message
unfortunatly thats how the world is, esp when involving kids. hopefully they will grow out of it but a majority wont.

such is life.

pushing for a change makes it worse. pushing them for their crimes, any other rabble, just ignore them.

best thing to do is keep your mouth shut when someone is spilling that racist crap, and walk away.

----------------------------
|read|between|the|lines|


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Knightmare
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Belgium
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Posted - 2004/08/24 :  09:34:48  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Knightmare's homepage
those f*cks down know what the hell they're talking about.
They even refer to "stormfront nederland", the unofficial and hated little brother of the actual "stormfront" of which the leaders declare that the gabberculture is a multicultural event and that real stomfronters would go there.
Amongst gabbers there are three sides, those that are the naziscum described here, those that oppose it and those that are racist but do not want to associate the music with politics. unfortunately the majority consists out of the group that is racist and doesn't give and the nazi bastards together.
But I must say this, gabbers are getting sick of all them zwazi's (zwabber nazi's, zwabber being a "faker gabber") and more and more of the younger generation is also starting to realise that racism doesn't have shit to do with hardcore.
There will always be a negative (and racist/fascist) image over gabbers because the media started it in the past and it's effect was that many believed it and so many racist also started to listen to hardcore cuz they thought is was racist music, see where this is going?

as for shutting iup when the racist crap is being said... time has told me that that won't solve this problem. Ppl are starting to open their mouths and in some cases it has effect, so I say, open your trap but don't start insulting at first (that may well come later if it's a stupid f*ck).

Wouldn't just buy all this crap without checking with the actual gabbers first, get our side of the story, cuz we ain't all a bunch of dumbass drug-using nazi bastards. Some of us actually have a mind of our own.

ps: most their sources date from somewhere around 2001, meaning it's outdated. how do I know this? Seen al this stuff b4 in other articles that were out to get us (again).


!GABBER 4 LIFE!



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!CORE 4 LIFE!


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Edited by - Knightmare on 2004/08/24 09:37:00
marcloage
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2004/08/24 :  18:10:53  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit marcloage's homepage
Holland is a very racist place. And the gabber scene is a big part of it.

Troops!!!!!!!!


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Weird Fish
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Aruba
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Posted - 2004/08/24 :  19:05:36  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Weird Fish's homepage
True, not all gabbers are nazis...some parties have strict rules on dresscodes etc. But what gabbers used to be was something completely different and now it has quiet 2 faces.
I lived there and have been a victim of discrimination in almost every form and I have seen how the dutch slag of immigrants. But have been a victim of this criminal immigrants too, quiet a few times.
But I have to say that the youth culture is more receptive and my experience there with young ppl has been gr8(even though not with all). So the other part of the youth has this really bad vibe about immigrants. And I get why, cause the criminal rates are higher on the immigrants. So the immigrants they slag on are the criminals and other good immigrants get slagged too. They have a generalised idea that all immigrants are the same.
It is a really delicate subject, where opinions can go flying from everywhere.
In this sistuation that the country is in, I figure any 'hitler' can come and take advantage of the situation.
So I to risk going to a gabberparty there would have been crazy, its just an opportunity to get beaten or killed and heeeeellll no, I love hardcore but I love myself more and I wont risk my life for it.

Knightmare, you are not like the nazibrains, but the reality is that a grand mayority of the scene are. And that is a problem. 2001 up to now is not really outdated, in fact that is still really close. I lived there when pim fortuyn was killed and this article of 2003 seems still a lot close to this date. And I have been there last year, not a lot has changed either.
It is not about something against hardcore, its about the way of thinking that is a problem and the hardcore scene sadly is used as part of it. Used as a way to show the mass force of nazis I guess.
Even you find 'immigrants'(called black) schools and white schools there. So how are immigrants to feel with this one sample of cultural conduct. It has been done to avoid conflict between etnic groups, but I had ask myself is this the best approach?
I am dutch, because we are part of the dutch kingdom, and I myself am being discriminated there. True kind dutch are rare and I am very glad I have found a few who I consider as my friends.
I frankly dont know where/ how this will end, I just hope for a positive solution.

¿Who da hell is this?
::::: weird fish ::::: (aka raving loonatic)


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Knightmare
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Posted - 2004/08/25 :  12:51:42  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Knightmare's homepage
trust me, it ain't as bad as it looks. Why not go to a gabber party here or in holland? If anybody gives you shit security kicks em out and it's not that rare to see an asian gabber go berzerk on a rave here, some times even black ppl.
Thing why you don't see a lot of em at raves is cuz of the attitude of most ppl towards the hardcore scene is usually one that is negative (e.g.: it's a naziparty). If the mentality would change of others the ravescene would become more diverse, but knowing ppl, that ain't gonna happen.
Another thing is, around here someone who is for instance black is going to be a rap/hiphop dude. Why? Cuz he wants to be like his friends or is influenced by the popular culture here that being one of them rappers/hiphoppers/r'nb boys is cool and widely apreciated within their circles.
If you find a black guy here that likes hardcore, they're usually the most diehard gabbers there are, it's just that most of em ain't open to it or are narrowminded enough to believe every f*cking thing that is said about gabbers whilst most gabbers ain't that bad, believe me, I'm regularly surrounded by hundreds of em and I am one myself.

ah well, f*ck the media, f*ck rumours and f*ck the nazi scum that f*cks up our scene.

and like we say around here: al loop de nazi nog zo snel, de baksteen achter hem raakt hem wel :)

!GABBER 4 LIFE!


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Chris B
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Posted - 2004/08/25 :  13:58:23  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Chris B's homepage
Doubt anyone on this site thinks cos you like gabber that you believe in nazism, torture chambers etc. Thats jus stupid it's a type of music you like end of story. I grew up with a boy who moved to rotterdam at 14 and i've been over to visit many times and have experienced raving over there and my experience of dutch ravers was tremendous so many really friendly people willing to help a foreigner have a good time and the sheer size of the scene there is something we should look towards over here. There was however a very large amount of mental lookin neo nazis and i cant say that if i was black or asian i'd attend these parties. i wouldnt recommend it cos from what i saw these people wouldnt hesitate to maim anyone they saw as the enemy and i doubt ehtnic minority's would feel comfortable amongst all the skinheads swastikas etc and these people are blatant as can be. It's the same way since i moved down south i cant seem to feel comfortable amongst yardies in dnb rooms my mates that have been here all their life feel fine but i dont like it guess it's what you'r used to to an extent. My theory on why holland has this problem particularly bad is as a lot of the country's population are extremely tolerant a lot of lax immigration laws used to be in place and in the big cities like rotterdam they ended up being as many turks, moroccans etc as native dutch and this has caused a bad reaction with some white youths in the area. One of the lads i met over there ended up having so much trouble from local morrocans he had to leave the town he grew up in and obviously incidents like this doesnt help race relations. it's sad that this has spilled into gabber and i support knightmare's comments 100% dont let these nazi's take your scene away from you. If you love gabber go out and support it and to be honest the more non rascist gabbers the better it will look for the scene. This will not go away as long as there is still problems between ethnic groups in holland and i believe it's got so bad that the white and black football players of the dutch national side wouldnt sit with each other for meals during the world cup. Without immigration the world would be a much duller place and in an ideal world we could all move wherever we wanted and feel welcome. This is not an ideal world and i think many governments need to think about their immigration policys to stop neo nazism rising. In the U.K there have been riots not long ago and listening to peoples attitudes in the street you can tell the problem is getting worse not better.

Venga la familia makineros


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Seany
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Posted - 2004/08/25 :  14:31:35  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Seany's homepage
They should all die a Sick slow death.





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Weird Fish
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Aruba
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Posted - 2004/08/25 :  14:52:22  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Weird Fish's homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Knightmare:
and like we say around here: al loop de nazi nog zo snel, de baksteen achter hem raakt hem wel :)


LOL...I just pictured it too

I totally agree with you too and its just I am not white, am mestizo. And it keeps being a risk for me going in there. I have been to hardcore parties though, just not the big ones. Like big clubs, its about getting what I want and still be safe.
The same as swimming, I would not enter the water knowing there are sharks in there.

¿Who da hell is this?
::::: weird fish ::::: (aka raving loonatic)


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