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milo
Advanced Member
Canada
3,391 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
347 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2007/02/18 : 18:48:16
In response to clarke101's comment
I've got mixed feelings about the whole "needing to develop the south" approach. On one hand yes, considering that classification makes up 80% of the worlds population but only... I don't know the number, but I want to say 20% of the green house gas emissions. When they catch up, given the current state of technology and local policy, it seems like it will be a huge problem.
However, with the north saying they need to clean up their act without looking in the mirror, and the predominant cause of southern policies is northern exploitation... you really need to wonder.
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clarke101
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/18 : 22:18:38
My point really stems not from the facts on emissons but the fact all of the places thought to be the top 10 most poluted places on earth are all in developing countries (can i still class China as developing?)
By saying the US my point was a little without bearing, had i said the UK my point would have better expressed.
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djDMS
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/19 : 16:43:29
Global warming WILL cause the deaths of millions of people in years to come.
But more importantly, my snowman only lasted 1 day!
Sorry
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Sk8SiM
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/20 : 06:45:16
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
Global warming WILL cause the deaths of millions of people in years to come.
But more importantly, my snowman only lasted 1 day!
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clarke101
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/20 : 08:37:38
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
Global warming WILL cause the deaths of millions of people in years to come.
But more importantly, my snowman only lasted 1 day!
Sorry
Its ok for you though. You wont be around to see the effects of global warming What with drawing your pension soon 
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DJ-Pure
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/20 : 11:33:00
Yeah i didn't even use the ol' skim read on this Renegade V, so i kind of just going to by every one elses post and call it a big ****all amount of ******** lol.
Serious matter but im not going to be arround to see it, so its all gravey! as they say lol
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jenks
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/20 : 11:53:01
quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Pure:
Yeah i didn't even use the ol' skim read on this Renegade V, so i kind of just going to by every one elses post and call it a big ****all amount of ******** lol.
Serious matter but im not going to be arround to see it, so its all gravey! as they say lol
Date of birth: January 28th, 1987
I reckon you will be mate!
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clarke101
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/20 : 12:07:48
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Pure:
Yeah i didn't even use the ol' skim read on this Renegade V, so i kind of just going to by every one elses post and call it a big ****all amount of ******** lol.
Serious matter but im not going to be arround to see it, so its all gravey! as they say lol
Date of birth: January 28th, 1987
I reckon you will be mate!
Depending on who you listen to you are already seeing the effects of global warming. So yeah you'll be around to see it.
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Dain-Ja
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Canada
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Posted - 2007/02/21 : 00:50:27
Global warming probably DOES exist. The world has definately gotten warmer in the century according to data collection.
However, we are basing this "warming" on what might be innacurate/flawed data. The environment around the data collection points may have changed. Most weather collection data was collected for our use, not to measure climate change so the choice of locations have generally been cities. If a data collection point was on the outskirts of Ottawa and Ottawa grew then it would register as getting warmer because it is now in a city and cities generate heat. (wooh xvi debates)
If you go back 75 years and all the data points that are old are now major cities then chances are their population has grownso the amount of heat generation has increased around those data points. This obviously demonstrates the flawed logic in data collection.
There is currently insufficient evidence to state that Global Warming is a result of human activity. There most definately insufficient evidence to make the claim that C02 is responsible for Global Warming: emissions have increased since the last IPCC reports but with every report they downgrade the predicted consequences. Think about it - emissions have increased but forecasts are getting more positive? That seems to indicate CO2 isn't the culprit here.
We can all agree that temperatures are increasing according to what might be flawed data collection but we have no idea if it's man-made so it might not make economical sense to sacrifice Canada and its' economy to prevent what might be completely unrelated to human activity.
That is the point of view I've developped from debating with dozens of people on the issue.
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jenks
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/21 : 01:01:55
So let me get this straight, you think that the consensus among the VAST majority of the scientific community that climate change is a direct result of human activity is based on results from a few data collection points that measure temperature?
We know 100% the world is heating up, glaciers and ice caps are melting at faster rates than ever, winter is becoming shorter, not to mention how rediculous the notion is that perhaps all of these 'data collection points' might be off because they're close to cities... What about the ones that aren't?!
We know how greenhouse gases work, we know that we're pumping them out at an alarming rate, we know that they must have an impact on the climate, it's just a matter of how much, but even then I'm inclined to believe the scientist know more about the subject than any of us, and they seem convinced... Anyway, do you really think governments all over the world would invest so much time and money into trying to combat global warming if there was any reasonable doubt that it isn't being caused by humans?
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Edited by - jenks on 2007/02/21 01:22:11 |
Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2007/02/21 : 01:44:07
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
We know 100% the world is heating up, glaciers and ice caps are melting at faster rates than ever, winter is becoming shorter, not to mention how rediculous the notion is that perhaps all of these 'data collection points' might be off because they're close to cities... What about the ones that aren't?!
im fairly sure the primary collection points are actually on top of mountains away from cities - such as the one in hawaii, which i believe is the main data collection point in the world
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nearly in line....
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Ionosphere
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/02/22 : 18:13:31
'Global Warming'....
....that title has deliberately been used to lead us into a false sense of security because,
when this problem was first discussed over thirty years ago, the scientists referred to it as -
'Global Heating'....
....and in my experience 'Heating' is hotter than 'Warming'.
........we're all doomed..............
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milo
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Canada
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Posted - 2007/02/22 : 18:38:52
There are many, many data collection points around the world. And I see you're point on city expansion getting closer to these points.
That would be valid if we were building cities up the sides out mountains, on active volcanoes, and in the arctic. But we aren't. Most, if not all centers for data collection show the same overall trend in global warming - up.
There are documents from big business which display industry intention to blur the lines and try to develop a sense of skepticism amongst people regarding global warming. It's kind of line... remember when they said there was no ozone hole and CFC's were ok? remember when they said the earth was flat and everything revolved around it?
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Edited by - milo on 2007/02/22 18:40:19 |
whispering
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Finland
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Posted - 2007/02/22 : 21:24:40
quote:
Originally posted by milo:
There are documents from big business which display industry intention to blur the lines and try to develop a sense of skepticism amongst people regarding global warming.
Mainly by corporate America and current Government of America, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKJ2fu_Gluo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcEzf9xI2I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOjfxEejS2Y
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Edited by - whispering on 2007/02/22 21:42:53 |
Dain-Ja
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Canada
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Posted - 2007/02/23 : 01:16:37
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
So let me get this straight, you think that the consensus among the VAST majority of the scientific community that climate change is a direct result of human activity is based on results from a few data collection points that measure temperature?
We know 100% the world is heating up, glaciers and ice caps are melting at faster rates than ever, winter is becoming shorter, not to mention how rediculous the notion is that perhaps all of these 'data collection points' might be off because they're close to cities... What about the ones that aren't?!
We know how greenhouse gases work, we know that we're pumping them out at an alarming rate, we know that they must have an impact on the climate, it's just a matter of how much, but even then I'm inclined to believe the scientist know more about the subject than any of us, and they seem convinced... Anyway, do you really think governments all over the world would invest so much time and money into trying to combat global warming if there was any reasonable doubt that it isn't being caused by humans?
Even if the data collected is correct and the world has indeed gotten warmer - something tells me we didn't have the same accuracy with mercury based thermometers in a century ago as we do now.
But even if all the data is accurate, a temperature increase over the last century means nothing in the grand scheme of things. There have been climate cycles for millions of years, for all we know it could just be a cycle.
Global warming might exist - the question is whether it's man-made or not. At this point there is NO consensus amongst the scientific community so we can't say it is.
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