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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,282 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2007/04/04 : 22:33:40
I got this funny feeling that more and more record labels, that started out getting some of their releases out digitally, have stopped doing this. To name a few labels that started releasing backcatalog of their tracks are Essential Platinum and Evolution Records. The first one got basicly all their 30 first releases up on IMOdownload, while the later one barely got 10% of it's backcatalog online on it's own website. Then there's Raverbaby that hasn't even gotten their store up yet.
The 2 main reasons for labels not to release their tracks digitally have always been that;
1. it would be easier to "release" on the piracy-scene, and
2. Digital doesn't sell.
I won't go about the 1st reason that much, because I've done it before on another thread on this forum. The reason why I'm making this thread is that people say that their tracks barely sells as MP3. but isn't that ****ING OBVIOUS? Selling digital files is a new kind of service for basicly all kinds of scenes, except for the Software scene, as this is the oldest. I don't know the real sales statistics for Digital music, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's just like Vinyl and CD sales, compared to Pop music in both LP/CD and digital.
My main arguement against this kind of hate-attitude against digital could possible be compared to that of both vinyl and CD. I'm wasn't born at the times those two forms of 'storage' was created (well obvious?), but I wouldnt be suprised that back when they got out, people didn't start buying them immediatly. So why would Digital music be the same? Let it take it's time, and don't just keep holding to a dream that it will never work, because it likely will.
Talking for all the listerners and DJ's that use Software or CD-Decks out there (because we're are propably more than vinyl-DJs today), Think about us god dammit, we are also potential buyers
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Ionosphere
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,750 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
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Posted - 2007/04/04 : 23:33:46
Yeh, I agree with all of that....
and in PsyTrance, which is arguably the 'Newest' and most intelligent form of dance music,
the vast majority of DJs use CD decks and therefore Downloaded music because random pops and crackles
are totally unacceptable....
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,282 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/04/05 : 00:23:54
to make an arguemwent against the 1 reason i typed, what makes vinyl so much harder to rip? compared to CD and digital files, it's harder to copy-protect or watermark a vinyl, if not an unexisting possability
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2007/04/05 00:24:28 |
Leto
Advanced Member
United States
2,849 posts
Joined: Jun, 2005
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Posted - 2007/04/05 : 00:35:22
I agree with Samination. I mostly buy digital releases, but many people think that digital sales are incredibly small...I'm not sure how it compares to vinyl.
I also buy vinyl pretty regularly, and just rip it to my computer to mix...
I don't think it's a losing battle, I just think it's on it's way up. If labels like Raverbaby and EP don't get their music out digitally, that's their problem, not the problem of digital DJ's...
Digital music is the future, like it or not, so it's either get on the bandwagon or get left in the dust unfortunately.
Keep in mind that DJ's who use digital tracks can still have vinyl control [i.e. Serato Scratch Live or Traktor Scratch or FinalScratch]...
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/04/05 : 09:40:08
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
what makes vinyl so much harder to rip?
A. You have to sit there and record it.
B. Loss in quality of the recording.
Digital sales (of hardcore) are tiny in comparison to vinyl... A decent release is not even likely to get 50 downloads. Also the profit is piss poor! A hardcore label that is wanting to make money could not do it on digital sales alone.
I must admit I would rather use vinyl... I find it easier to cue and I like to be able to see what's coming up on the track. I agree with Ionosphere that the odd pop you get here and there are not really acceptable for a compilation but you really don't even notice them on a loud system when someone is playing out at a rave/club etc (unless said DJ doesn't look after his records!).
TBH I think if you don't have access to either vinyl or digital format you're missing out... There is decent releases exclusively available on both formats.
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2007/04/05 09:42:28 |
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,282 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/04/05 : 11:40:14
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
TBH I think if you don't have access to either vinyl or digital format you're missing out... There is decent releases exclusively available on both formats.
more reason to make releases... atleast digitally :P
I'm OK with some labels taking 3-4 months for a release to get digital, but some.. I wont mentiion it, i'll propably be flamed if I continue...
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Leto
Advanced Member
United States
2,849 posts
Joined: Jun, 2005
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Posted - 2007/04/05 : 11:47:47
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
what makes vinyl so much harder to rip?
A. You have to sit there and record it.
B. Loss in quality of the recording.
Digital sales (of hardcore) are tiny in comparison to vinyl... A decent release is not even likely to get 50 downloads. Also the profit is piss poor! A hardcore label that is wanting to make money could not do it on digital sales alone.
I must admit I would rather use vinyl... I find it easier to cue and I like to be able to see what's coming up on the track. I agree with Ionosphere that the odd pop you get here and there are not really acceptable for a compilation but you really don't even notice them on a loud system when someone is playing out at a rave/club etc (unless said DJ doesn't look after his records!).
TBH I think if you don't have access to either vinyl or digital format you're missing out... There is decent releases exclusively available on both formats.
Agreed. I think a good DJ uses a blend of vinyl and digital...
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Edited by - Leto on 2007/04/05 11:49:28 |
Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2007/04/05 : 13:47:54
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
A. You have to sit there and record it.
B. Loss in quality of the recording.
Not everyone's got the leads lying around to rip there vinyl easily, it's not difficult though and it will happen whatever.
quote:
Digital sales (of hardcore) are tiny in comparison to vinyl... A decent release is not even likely to get 50 downloads. Also the profit is piss poor! A hardcore label that is wanting to make money could not do it on digital sales alone.
I no there are people who will pay to buy music but most people i no with cd jays never buy anything. It's so easy to get equal quality for free is far too tempting, especially if there trying to make money from dj'ing and need a lot of different styles.
quote:
I must admit I would rather use vinyl... I find it easier to cue and I like to be able to see what's coming up on the track. I agree with Ionosphere that the odd pop you get here and there are not really acceptable for a compilation but you really don't even notice them on a loud system when someone is playing out at a rave/club etc (unless said DJ doesn't look after his records!).
Aye thats pretty much my views on it, much prefer vinyl maybe because its what i've always used. Must admit not all my vinyl are in perfect condition, a lot are a good 10/12 years old and not all of them i bought in the best condition in the first place.
So aye the odd click and crackle happens, but when just mixing for yourself and your mates its not really a big deal.
Is true about psy trance though was all digital a long time ago, but with some other styles theres still a strong vinyl culture and it will still be there for a while.
quote:
TBH I think if you don't have access to either vinyl or digital format you're missing out... There is decent releases exclusively available on both formats.
Aye i've put it off for ages but really need to get my head down get a copy of final scratch or something, is sites sellin old classics on mp3 cheap now where the vinyl costs loads. And is even the odd digital only release i'd probably buy, would definitely help things but i won't stop using and collecting vinyl. Would just like it as an extra really.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
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Joined: Jul, 2004
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Posted - 2007/04/05 : 18:18:24
Since I'm one of the few digital DJ's around (and I'm not really a DJ, in my perspective that is) that mixes Hardcore, I propably should not be nagging, since compared to a vinyl/cd DJ, I can use all 3 formats with ease.
But I prefer to get my sources/tracks directly from a clean and usable source, such as MP3, MP4 or WAVE (last one prefered ofcourse, for quality's sake)
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Rapid Bass
Junior Member
Australia
117 posts
Joined: Mar, 2005
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Posted - 2007/04/07 : 04:48:16
I can see where your comming from. But I'm more of t traditionalist. For a start vinyl has a warmer thicker sort of sound with more bass than cd. It's harder for people to rip off like someone said, and where's the excitement in downloading to cd. Vinyls days are numbered I know and eventually it will all go digital. Personally I love going to my local dance record shop and seeing new rave vinyl on the shelves. And listening to records while socialising with other ravers. People who buy cd dex and don't produce are cheap kats who want to get music cheap. The onlt reason you should want cd dex is if you do produce. Well thats my 2cents worth anyway.
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You know the score and what i'm waiting for. Yeah bro it's banging hardcore!!
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sunrize
Junior Member
United States
144 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2007/04/07 : 15:39:48
It's true, the whole digital sales world is STILL pretty new. This has proven to be hugely successful within other genre's like house, electro, trance, breaks, etc.. I suppose hardcore dj's / fans just haven't come around as full swing as these genres. Plus, keep in mind that these are much larger genres with a larger fan base.
I wouldn't be discouraged at all at the state of digital sales right now. Although, I think there could be some new and interesting ways to promote the whole digital thing. A label can't necessarily expect to just upload their catalog to IMO and sit back and watch the money roll in. I think it's going to take some creative promotion to really be successful in digital hardcore sales.
I think the great thing about digital mp3's being available is that these tracks are now available for the non-dj who just likes to listen to the music. I don't know of too many people who WEREN'T djs and just bought a turntable and spent $9-10USD for 1-2 tracks just to listen to. :) I hope that eventually we might see more fans who support the labels by purchasing their favorite tracks; not necessarily for DJ use but for listening pleasure. You will notice now that on sites like Juno (and soon IMO) you can purchase a cheaper 192kbps mp3 as opposed to a 320kbps or WAV which is slightly more.
Here is a question.. currently Sunrize Sound 001 is up on www.junodownload.com for a pound (aka $2 USD) for the 192kbps format. If you are just a listener and not a DJ, does this seem reasonable for you to pay? If you are a "listener" and don't buy specific mp3s but just wait to download DJ mixes, what is stopping you? Is it the cost? Payment options? I'd be curious to know :)
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
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Joined: Jul, 2004
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Posted - 2007/04/07 : 21:23:35
In Sweden, the costs some digital stores take out are considered expensive.
a single track (192kb/s if I might add) costs 9.90SEK, which is roughly 76 pence (if 1 UK pound is about 13 SEK), which is still cheaper than what most british digital stores take. This is also excluding the VAT tax. For me to buy a track for 99 pence, it would go up to about 1 pound 23 pence easily, per track, as the vat, to my knowledge is 25%. But VAT is a thing we europeans can get around, so we got to pay that.
This could be because most people, not only in Sweden, consider downloading a track not being a real theft, as you dont steal the track and then sell it. Ofcourse there are those who do it, but 70% of them live or work in Asia (didn't intend to mean this in a racial matter)
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2007/04/07 21:27:55 |
dbadger
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/04/08 : 02:39:37
the reason sales are low, is because there isnt much out to buy, so noone hardly buys cd decks cos there is nuiffin toplay,m releaselots digitally and more people will buy cd decks and hence sales will go up
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,282 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
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Posted - 2007/04/08 : 08:44:21
reason for that is most people think digital are shit and vinyl is so much better. how many hardcore ravers are audiophiles anyways?
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Ravine
Average Member
Australia
209 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2007/04/08 : 09:16:16
DAMN STRAIGHT!!!
I need my MP3 to live. That's all i buy, i use Serato Scratch Live and you believe me it's rough. But i can see why digital doesn't sell. Let me tell you guys a story.
This was just last night, i was playing at a rave and basically, it was vinyl or nothing. People instantly thought i was some kind of cheater or a microwave DJ because i carried a laptop and used software with vinyl. I was still using vinyl, i was still scratching but because i was using MP3, i had less respect from the DJs. In all honesty, the digital scene is still growing. Vinyl is still dominant. The place i played at only had 2 Technics 1200s and the Technics DMC Battle mixer. No CDJs.
I think the problem with people only using vinyl is that turntables are cheap. You can get a turntable setup for 1000 dollars and it'll be pretty decent. You can barely get a single CDJ for 1000 dollars (australian dollars). This is the reason why there are more vinyl DJs. But then you'd say "Wait, but you gotta buy vinyl, that's like 20 bucks a pop! MP3 is 2 dollars each!". Well you see, most people are shortsighted unfortunately (i think we all were at a time) and that's why they go for vinyl because it's cheaper in the short run but after you buy about 40 vinyls (which is a bare minimum to bring to a gig these days), you could have bought a somewhat decent CDJ setup (DNS-1000s for example) and saved yourself a whole bunch of cash in the future by using MP3s.
It's a shame really. People really should embrace technology instead of calling it cheating.
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clarke101
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United Kingdom
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185 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/04/08 : 09:35:07
quote:
Originally posted by dbadger:
the reason sales are low, is because there isnt much out to buy, so noone hardly buys cd decks cos there is nuiffin toplay,m releaselots digitally and more people will buy cd decks and hence sales will go up
There are loads of releases available in a digital format. You just have to look past the big 4 mainstream labels.
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