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 Music discussion - hardcore
 

Hang on a moment....Am i getting better?

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redwingz
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/06/11 :  22:15:15  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit redwingz's homepage  Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by manuelf:
Every song is always written in a specific KEY, which determines all the other notes you can play. For example if you are writing a song in C Major KEY, you should use the notes of the C major scale, which are: C D E F G A B C
If you play any other note that is not in the scale (example: bE, #G), it is going to sound dissonant.

Also, there can be dissonances within the scale.
For example if you are playing a C major Chord in the piano, you should try making a melody with C, E and G notes, because they three make the C major Chord, so its going to sound harmonious.
But if you add to that chord, a B note, or a D (even if they are in the scale), the chord is going to sound dissonant.

Each basic chord is made with three notes. The first, the second, and the third ;P
The first in the main note of the chord, skip one note of the scale, and thats the second, skip another, and thats the third note.
So if you want the chord for D, the notes of the chord would be: D+F+A
For G chord: G B D
For A chord: A C E

Usually in hardcore you have a one chord for each bar, and cycles of 4 bars. This means you can have 4 chords, so you can make combinations of chords, try something common like:
C - A - F - G, and play a melody over that with the notes of each chord. After that you can start adding notes that dont belong to the chords, that makes it more interesting, just make sure the notes you add dont rule over the notes of the chord, they are supossed to be transition notes, like decorative notes.


I hope this helps you a little :)




ok i really appreciate you taking the time to explain this.

So to use it as a working example, my piano riff in fruity has 3 long kind of bass notes of E5, B4 and E4 an the melodic notes within that bar are E6, D6 and B5. so which melodic notes are out of tune there with the bass notes of that bar?

really dumb question but c major and c# are the same yes?

so you are saying a bar should have bass notes of for example G4, c4 and e4 with melodic notes of say g5, c6 and e6? and all that will be in the key of C?


__________________________________
Audioshift

http://www.trackitdown.net/recordlabel/111477/nsr-records.html

http://www.nsrrecords.co.uk

http://www.imodownload.com/NSR-Records

http://www.junodownload.com/labels/NSR


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Ionosphere
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/06/11 :  23:26:57  Show profile View artist profile  Send a private message  Visit Ionosphere's homepage  Reply with quote
....for example -

1. The Key of C major (C minor is different) - http://www.ionosphere.co.uk/AUDIO/eg1.mp3

The Bass is just C. The 'melody' is C3, F3, B3, followed by C3, G3,D3.

2. The key of C major with the 'melody' in the key of E major - http://www.ionosphere.co.uk/AUDIO/eg2.mp3

The Bass is still C but the 'melody' is E3, A3, D3sharp, followed by E3, F3sharp, B3 and it's horrible.

3. The key of E major - http://www.ionosphere.co.uk/AUDIO/eg3.mp3

The Bass is now just E and the 'melody' is the same as eg2, E3, A3, D3sharp, followed by E3, F3sharp, B3
and it's all back in tune with itself in the key of E.

I hope that's of some help mate.


__________________________________

This- http://www.discogs.com/artist/Ionosphere

THIS - http://soundcloud.com/ionosphere

VIDEO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nYWkHCkaho


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choonland
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Colombia
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  02:37:44  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit choonland's homepage  Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by redwingz:
So to use it as a working example, my piano riff in fruity has 3 long kind of bass notes of E5, B4 and E4 an the melodic notes within that bar are E6, D6 and B5. so which melodic notes are out of tune there with the bass notes of that bar?

really dumb question but c major and c# are the same yes?

so you are saying a bar should have bass notes of for example G4, c4 and e4 with melodic notes of say g5, c6 and e6? and all that will be in the key of C?



Check Ionosphere example:

2. The key of C major with the 'melody' in the key of E major - http://www.ionosphere.co.uk/AUDIO/eg2.mp3

The Bass is still C but the 'melody' is E3, A3, D3sharp, followed by E3, F3sharp, B3 and it's horrible.

in this case, its "horrible" because A3 and D3sharp dont belong to C Major chord (C-E-G), the only note from the chord is E3


the bass should be the same note along one bar. and it should be the lower note of the chord, so if the chord is C major, the bass can be C1 or C2, and yes, the melodic notes can be c6, e5, g7, or whatever, but dont be restricted only to these three, you can add other notes, but thats when you ears have to start working, to make sure everything sounds good

... and C major its NOT equal to #C. oh boy its so much to explain!!!
All notes in a keyboard are separeted half tone from each other
# means half tone higher of a note
b means half tone lower of a note

so if you have a D note, that would be a white key in a keyboard.
#D is the black key to the right, and bD is the black key to the left


Now, what does mean C major???
errrr..... lets just say C major sounds "happier" and C minor sounds "sad/darker"
C major Chord: C E G
C minor Chord: G bE G
note the bE, that change makes the chord minor, play the three notes at the same time in your Fruity and you will understand.





__________________________________
https://soundcloud.com/naturatech


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Edited by - choonland on 2008/06/12 02:46:07
redwingz
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  12:25:50  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit redwingz's homepage  Reply with quote
Well i gotta say, thank you so much Ionosphere and Manuelf, this is the best and more enlightening feedback ive ever recieved and is a MASSIVE help, so i genuinely thank you.

Im at work at the moment but as soon as im home i will listen to those examples and then try some of my own out, but i think combining what u have both said, i understand the general concept now.

Im going to try and make that track ('Beam of Sun') in tune and i will post in this topic when i have done it, and i hope you will give it one more listen to tell me if it is in tune.

Thanx!!!!!!


__________________________________
Audioshift

http://www.trackitdown.net/recordlabel/111477/nsr-records.html

http://www.nsrrecords.co.uk

http://www.imodownload.com/NSR-Records

http://www.junodownload.com/labels/NSR


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redwingz
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  17:53:41  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit redwingz's homepage  Reply with quote
ok ok ok. ive had a quick play around and just put the piano and synth into key and the bass aswell. all the percussion has been taken out for ease of hearing and its basically a 30 second clip.

Basically i just want to know if its in key.

The piano goes CAFG (one chord per bar) as does the bass, the melodic notes are just made up of the 3 notes in the respective chord. the same has been done to the synth.

http://www.mediafire.com/?xoqjbiygwgb

Ok there is the file. Please let this be in key lol!


__________________________________
Audioshift

http://www.trackitdown.net/recordlabel/111477/nsr-records.html

http://www.nsrrecords.co.uk

http://www.imodownload.com/NSR-Records

http://www.junodownload.com/labels/NSR


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Ionosphere
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  18:28:45  Show profile View artist profile  Send a private message  Visit Ionosphere's homepage  Reply with quote
....well, that is all....

how can I put it....?
















perfectly in key. :D


__________________________________

This- http://www.discogs.com/artist/Ionosphere

THIS - http://soundcloud.com/ionosphere

VIDEO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nYWkHCkaho




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redwingz
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  18:31:23  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit redwingz's homepage  Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ionosphere:
....well, that is all....

how can I put it....?
















perfectly in key. :D



WOOHOOHOOHOO so happy that its right now. Now ive just gotta actually change my song so that its all in key and spice it up a little.

Gotta say a massive thanx though to Ionosphere and Manuelf, without you guys i would have been producing 'out of key' hardcore for years haha. so thank you for taking the time to explain and for listening to my 'lame' attempts lol.


__________________________________
Audioshift

http://www.trackitdown.net/recordlabel/111477/nsr-records.html

http://www.nsrrecords.co.uk

http://www.imodownload.com/NSR-Records

http://www.junodownload.com/labels/NSR


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Ionosphere
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  18:36:35  Show profile View artist profile  Send a private message  Visit Ionosphere's homepage  Reply with quote
You're welcome mate.


__________________________________

This- http://www.discogs.com/artist/Ionosphere

THIS - http://soundcloud.com/ionosphere

VIDEO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nYWkHCkaho




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choonland
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  21:43:46  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit choonland's homepage  Reply with quote
you're wellcome here too, just remerber to keep reading about music theory, the more you understand things, the more liberty you can move :)

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redwingz
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  22:30:49  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit redwingz's homepage  Reply with quote
OK, so ive re-done the piano, synth and bass and Im pretty sure they are now all in key with eachother, So i would really appreciate it if people would give me feedback on this track again now it is sorted.

Now hopefully the feedback wont be 'get ya track in key' lol it will be something to help me improve the track.

Please tell me what you think, its my 1st in key track haha!

Personally i think the song is still a little clumsy in places and not entirely sure if the bass suits the track, but as always all feedback welcome

http://www.myspace.com/djpharynx


__________________________________
Audioshift

http://www.trackitdown.net/recordlabel/111477/nsr-records.html

http://www.nsrrecords.co.uk

http://www.imodownload.com/NSR-Records

http://www.junodownload.com/labels/NSR


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Edited by - redwingz on 2008/06/12 22:35:15
Project-Industrial
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Posted - 2008/06/12 :  23:37:53  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Project-Industrial's homepage  Reply with quote
that lil bass undertone around 1.20 sounds bit weird imo... dunno exactly how to change it cuz it aint ma style but just doesnt sounds quite right ^^ on most part i still miss some filling up... maybe some open hats? play around with that a little bit... other then that.. sounds a lot better then before!

__________________________________
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- Disease

http://www.project-industrial.com
http://www.discogs.com/label/Furious+Monkey+Records
http://www.furiousmonkeyrecords.com/


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redwingz
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Posted - 2008/06/13 :  12:07:46  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit redwingz's homepage  Reply with quote
yeah ive been really struggling with the bass actually. i think its still out of key so i do need to sort that

__________________________________
Audioshift

http://www.trackitdown.net/recordlabel/111477/nsr-records.html

http://www.nsrrecords.co.uk

http://www.imodownload.com/NSR-Records

http://www.junodownload.com/labels/NSR




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