Quote: The government is drawing up plans to give the police and security and intelligence agencies new powers to access personal data held by internet services, including social network sites such as Facebook and Bebo and gaming networks.
The move, heralded in this morning's speech on international terrorism by Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, is prompted by concern that criminals and terrorists are using websites as a way of concealing their communications, according to Whitehall security sources.
At present, security and intelligence agencies can demand to see telephone and email traffic from traditional communications services providers (CSPs), which store the personal data for business purposes such as billing.
The rapid expansion of new CSPs - such as gaming, social networking, auction and video sites - and technologies such as wireless internet and broadband present a serious problem for the police, MI5, customs and other government agencies, the security sources say.
Sites such as Bebo and Facebook provide their services free, relying mainly on advertising for income. They do not hold records of their customers, many of whom in any case use pseudonyms.
"Criminals could use a chat facility - they are not actually playing the game but we can't actually get hold of the data," said one official.
"Criminal terrorists are exploiting free social networking sites," said another Whitehall security official, who added that the problem was compounded by the increasing use of data rather than voice in communications.
"People have many accounts and sign up as Mickey Mouse and no one knows who they are," he said. "We have to do something. We need to collect data CSPs do not hold."
Whitehall officials say that with the help of GCHQ - the electronic eavesdropping centre with a huge information storage capacity - the government is looking at different options that will be put out for consultation. They declined today to spell out the options but said that whatever is decided will need new legislation.
Despite this reticence, it is clear that the government wants to be able to demand that the new generation of CSPs collect data from their customers so the security services can access them.
The response from the networks is likely to be hostile, not least because of the potential costs involved.
If the government, as expected, offers to pay for any new data access scheme, it is likely to cost taxpayers billions of pounds.
The plan will need international cooperation since many of the new CSPs are based abroad, notably in the US.
Government officials insist that what they call the interception modernisation programme, or IMP, is important since access to communications data is a crucial tool in combating crime such as paedophilia, kidnapping and drug trafficking.
They say the planned new legislation would apply only to communications data - such addresses and names - but not to the actual contents of the communications. Intercepting the contents would still need ministerial warrants. Access to communications data would be available, as now, to senior police, local council officers and other public bodies.
Clearly concerned about a public backlash against the plan, officials stress that the government is not building up a single central database containing personal information of everyone in the country.
bulby_g Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
Posted - 2008/10/15 : 16:10:50
It just seems that they have awarded themselves the right to do whatever they want now. I like they way they use terrorism to cover it up and try to make people feel they are doing it all to protect them. :-/
Mortis Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
Posted - 2008/10/15 : 18:01:03
quote:Originally posted by bulby_g:
It just seems that they have awarded themselves the right to do whatever they want now.
Not only that but they feel they can invest money we have paid, without us knowing, into businesses that have gone bankrupt and then expect us to bail them out of their mess. The way I see the world at the moment and in particular the people who "run" the world is it's just to ****ed up for anyone to redeem themselves. It seems to be heading on a very steep downward spiral.
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"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
SixFeet Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,285 posts Joined: Jan, 2005
Posted - 2008/10/15 : 19:34:27
quote:Originally posted by Mortis:
Not only that but they feel they can invest money we have paid, without us knowing, into businesses that have gone bankrupt and then expect us to bail them out of their mess. The way I see the world at the moment and in particular the people who "run" the world is it's just to ****ed up for anyone to redeem themselves. It seems to be heading on a very steep downward spiral.
DING DING DING!
We're slowly becoming a totalitarian state.
It's all ********, but they use the guise of "terrorism" to justify everything and because of this people allow it.
The problem is retards lapping it up that know nothing about the internet. I can see Osama Bin Laden's FB account now.
"Osama Bin Laden is loling at what just happened on eastenders and is quite hungry haha! =PP
Here for: Relationship, Netowrking, International Jihad
Mood: Horny ;)
Status: Single ='(
Political views: DEATH TO TEH WEST!!1 LOLOL!"
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No single raindrop ever blames themselves for the flood...
whispering Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts Joined: Nov, 2002
Posted - 2008/10/15 : 19:48:49
It was nice to see that the last time you used these anti terrorism laws, it was against the worlds most peaceful country, Iceland.
SixFeet Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,285 posts Joined: Jan, 2005
Posted - 2008/10/15 : 19:55:27
quote:Originally posted by whispering:
It was nice to see that the last time you used these anti terrorism laws, it was against the worlds most peaceful country, Iceland.
whispering don't you know they harbour most of the worlds terrorists!!!11
Fun fact: USA harbours more terrorists that are wanted for international crimes than every other country on the planet put together.
__________________________________
No single raindrop ever blames themselves for the flood...
jenks Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,700 posts Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
Posted - 2008/10/15 : 23:30:05
"drawing up plans"
I'll complain when we get something a bit more concrete. As for the UK becoming a totalitarian state, I don't see it happening. The fact is we're not giving up out freedoms, we're not throwing them away ever time terrorism is mentioned, just look at the 42 day detention plans that have just crashed and burned...
mitchy_boy Senior Member
Australia
381 posts Joined: Sep, 2006
Posted - 2008/10/16 : 07:46:54
quote:Originally posted by SixFeet:
quote:Originally posted by Mortis:
Not only that but they feel they can invest money we have paid, without us knowing, into businesses that have gone bankrupt and then expect us to bail them out of their mess. The way I see the world at the moment and in particular the people who "run" the world is it's just to ****ed up for anyone to redeem themselves. It seems to be heading on a very steep downward spiral.
DING DING DING!
We're slowly becoming a totalitarian state.
It's all ********, but they use the guise of "terrorism" to justify everything and because of this people allow it.
The problem is retards lapping it up that know nothing about the internet. I can see Osama Bin Laden's FB account now.
"Osama Bin Laden is loling at what just happened on eastenders and is quite hungry haha! =PP
Here for: Relationship, Netowrking, International Jihad
Mood: Horny ;)
Status: Single ='(
Political views: DEATH TO TEH WEST!!1 LOLOL!"
bulby_g Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
Posted - 2008/10/16 : 09:22:58
quote:Originally posted by jenks:
"drawing up plans"
I'll complain when we get something a bit more concrete. As for the UK becoming a totalitarian state, I don't see it happening. The fact is we're not giving up out freedoms, we're not throwing them away ever time terrorism is mentioned, just look at the 42 day detention plans that have just crashed and burned...
Best to start complaining as early as possible imo.
ID cards, DNA records... Very much the start of giving up our freedom. Even if we do win one or two battles the government will find new ways to slip these laws through and give themselves total control.
quote:Originally posted by Mortis:
quote:Originally posted by bulby_g:
It just seems that they have awarded themselves the right to do whatever they want now.
Not only that but they feel they can invest money we have paid, without us knowing, into businesses that have gone bankrupt and then expect us to bail them out of their mess. The way I see the world at the moment and in particular the people who "run" the world is it's just to ****ed up for anyone to redeem themselves. It seems to be heading on a very steep downward spiral.
Yep. Our tax money is getting thrown at some unbelievably stupid things. No wonder the people who should be getting it never have enough!
I think you're probably right mate. Everything has got really corrupt now and I can't see us ever getting straight again. Perhaps if there was a large scale disaster to bring the country together again... What a sad state to be in.
quote:Originally posted by SixFeet:
It's all ********, but they use the guise of "terrorism" to justify everything and because of this people allow it.
The problem is retards lapping it up that know nothing about the internet. I can see Osama Bin Laden's FB account now.
"Osama Bin Laden is loling at what just happened on eastenders and is quite hungry haha! =PP
Here for: Relationship, Netowrking, International Jihad
Mood: Horny ;)
Status: Single ='(
Political views: DEATH TO TEH WEST!!1 LOLOL!"
:P haha.
quote:Originally posted by Brian K:
this is old news. the cia has been using facebook & myspace for some time to track 'terrorists'
considering the government did come up with the internet I guess it's only fair they start taking it back =P
You didn't dive deep enough into the article. They're wanting to force the sites to keep a record of everything and it might end up being the tax payers paying the bill. :-/
Project-Industrial Advanced Member
Netherlands
2,481 posts Joined: Nov, 2005
33 hardcore releases
Posted - 2008/10/16 : 11:08:11
quote:Originally posted by SixFeet:
quote:Originally posted by Mortis:
Not only that but they feel they can invest money we have paid, without us knowing, into businesses that have gone bankrupt and then expect us to bail them out of their mess. The way I see the world at the moment and in particular the people who "run" the world is it's just to ****ed up for anyone to redeem themselves. It seems to be heading on a very steep downward spiral.
DING DING DING!
We're slowly becoming a totalitarian state.
It's all ********, but they use the guise of "terrorism" to justify everything and because of this people allow it.
The problem is retards lapping it up that know nothing about the internet. I can see Osama Bin Laden's FB account now.
"Osama Bin Laden is loling at what just happened on eastenders and is quite hungry haha! =PP
Here for: Relationship, Netowrking, International Jihad
Mood: Horny ;)
Status: Single ='(
Political views: DEATH TO TEH WEST!!1 LOLOL!"
jenks Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,700 posts Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
Posted - 2008/10/16 : 23:07:06
quote:Originally posted by bulby_g:
quote:Originally posted by jenks:
"drawing up plans"
I'll complain when we get something a bit more concrete. As for the UK becoming a totalitarian state, I don't see it happening. The fact is we're not giving up out freedoms, we're not throwing them away ever time terrorism is mentioned, just look at the 42 day detention plans that have just crashed and burned...
Best to start complaining as early as possible imo.
ID cards, DNA records... Very much the start of giving up our freedom. Even if we do win one or two battles the government will find new ways to slip these laws through and give themselves total control.
'The government' aren't a constant though, we live in a democracy, so as soon as they go a bit too far and people get wise to it then an opposition party will be all over it, thus leaving the government to change or lose power. I just don't see people caving, terrorism isn't taken nearly seriously enough over here for that to happen I don't think.
bulby_g Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
Posted - 2008/10/17 : 09:13:44
It's already happening though. The amount of privacy we've lost over the years is unreal. The things that have already been worked into the system will never be reversed unless something really radical happens (unlikely). If someone else is voted in they will probably just carry on along the same path. :-/
whispering Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts Joined: Nov, 2002
Posted - 2008/10/17 : 09:53:29
I think it would be funny if UK hosting companys just moved all their servers to Ireland ;) When Swedens military started snooping peoples emails, all servers for finnish customers were moved here :P
Alert moderatorEdited by - whispering on 2008/10/17 09:54:45
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Posted - 2008/10/15 : 15:56:25
