Samination Advanced Member
Sweden
13,281 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
Posted - 2011/12/31 : 11:50:55
You don't need to hear it, just get a spectrum-analyzer that shows the full spectrum. Anything below 55Hz should obviously be managed
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
Claxton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,061 posts Joined: Dec, 2011
Posted - 2011/12/31 : 12:11:09
quote:Originally posted by Karthy:
Noticed the exact same! Went to my first rave and was HUGELY disappointed with the lack of riffs and vocals that I could not hear! Many great tunes came on, but I had to listen closely to even recognise them. Felt like climbing over the barriers and telling the DJ's to turn the ****ing bass down, was majorly pissed off about it!
Honestly though, I think they could have simply just turned the lows down and it would've sounded fine (I swear they had it turned all the way up -.-)
But yeah I don't think every producer has the opportunity to club test their tunes, and small speakers tend to fail at picking up those sub bass frequencies that make a mix sound shit in a club.
That... and the fact they need to turn the low band down!!
To be honest I dont think turning the lows down would make too much difference. The same frequencies would still be there. I thinks its the way the off-bass interacts with the environment to be honest.
As mentioned previously, I think that there is an improvement in larger venues.
Posted - 2011/12/31 : 14:17:52
In general I think the volume at events has gone down a bit the last few years, which is a good thing. Wasn't there some law passed involving a maximum loudness at clubs or something 3/4 years ago, or am I remembering wrong?
NekoShuffle Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts Joined: Nov, 2009
Posted - 2011/12/31 : 16:42:15
My Aussie friends say that the UK is so loud, they said that everything from live performances to comedians on stage are much louder volume-wise (as in, the sound system is turned up, not the comedian shouting) here in the UK. Maybe it's part of the same issue, honestly I've gone to so many raves that it feels like normal volume for me now, I don't get ringing in my ears or anything when I leave a club like I used to a few years ago.
Lilark Average Member
United States
211 posts Joined: Nov, 2011
Posted - 2012/01/04 : 21:36:22
quote:Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
I remember Hard2Get mentioning this a while back which interested me because I had always discussed this with other ravers and they never quite knew what I was talking about. This isn't anything to do with arguing about different styles of hardcore, please take that elsewhere.
I've noticed particularly when I listen to upfront in clubs there tends to be far too much bass to the point it drowns out synths and vocals. I've listened to this on a range of sound systems from godawful ones to Funktion One soundsystems which are apparently the best money can buy. What's the cause of the excess bass? It's never been dependant on the club as everything from tacky bars to the Air superclub in Birmingham have all had this problem, this has happened with virtually every DJ and I don't believe they're ALL redlighting the EQs, so what's the deal?
I wonder if the offbeat bass is too thick or maybe tracks aren't being mastered correctly? I've noticed every time I've heard tunes engineered by Pinnacle they've always sounded amazingly crisp in comparison to every other tune, and also the pianos have been so clean they put other tracks to shame. I've noticed 96-99 hardcore doesn't seem to have this problem as much, but the 91-94 breakbeat old skool does. None of these problems are prevalent at home on a household stereo system.
Whenever I've spoken to raver friends they've never understood what I mean but they never ever rave sober and I tend to notice it whenever I'm sober raving (which is actually more times than not). I'm not enough of an expert on soundsystems to pinpoint the problem exactly but it'd be nice for others to weigh in on this. It's kind of a shame when I want to sing along with the vocals but basically end up singing by memory instead of singing because I can hear it, they often seem to be drowned out by "BVVVVTTVRVEBERBB" and that's not electro or anything, just normal upfront UK Hardcore and also Old skool breakbeat hardcore. Thoughts?
Personally I think it might be the way hardcore has evolved. Older hardcore didn't have the same bass and structure as hardcore these days does, I guess the speakers just can't take it.
Lilley Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts Joined: Jul, 2006
Posted - 2012/01/05 : 13:52:00
A significant factor could simply be the volume is to much. Combination of the speakers not coping (possible) and more likely ears going into overload and the bass takes over. Happened at defqon in 09.
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nearly in line....
.....strange continuity problems
Dain-Ja Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts Joined: Oct, 2004
Posted - 2012/01/05 : 17:16:46
All properly produced tracks are mixed and mastered to a certain curve, which shouls sound balanced and flat on any properly tuned system. This is true for any style.
The 6dB curve is usually what is used - it has a slight peak around 65-115hz, then tapers down gently and drops off quickly at 15-20khz
The biggest factors are probably room acoustics (in smaller venues, especially, since room modes will dominate), club system compression/EQ/limiting and reverb (in larger venues, which would have a loud RT60, which would be especially prevalent in the low end).
I'd place bets on the club system being poorly tuned, since raves aren't known for their sound technicians.
I've noticed that some producers definitely don't master their tracks to a proper curve. If you listen to some DJ Kurt stuff, it has a big dip in the mids, so the bass and treble are over-emphasised... Spectrum analysis with averaging would confirm this for many tunes. For the most part, hardcore producers seem to have untreated studios, so they definitely don't hear a "flat" sound. The ones that get third party mastering or have a lot of experience get by fine though :)
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Dain-Ja Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts Joined: Oct, 2004
Posted - 2012/01/05 : 17:20:47
quote:Originally posted by Lilley:
A significant factor could simply be the volume is to much. Combination of the speakers not coping (possible) and more likely ears going into overload and the bass takes over. Happened at defqon in 09.
Although this is true, the human ear actually flattens it's frequency response as volume gets louder, which would cover up overly loud bass. It reduces clarity and dynamics significantly so it's still possible that this is what the OP has experienced...
Personally, I always find it funny to see rave sound techs crank up the 15-40hz range, which is not even reproduced on most systems and ears up 90% of the amp power.
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Producer/DJ/Label owner
Rush Delivery Records
Visit makemeRUSH.com for music from the ONLY North American hardcore label pressing vinyl!
Audio Warfare Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,053 posts Joined: Mar, 2009
Posted - 2012/01/06 : 11:13:48
Yeah I'd say it's probably a combination of bad DJ masters and/or mixdowns, badly set up sound systems, systems/levels that aren't suited to the venue, bad acoustics in the venue and DJ's redlining the mixer.
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Alert moderatorEdited by - Audio Warfare on 2012/01/06 11:24:50
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Posted - 2011/12/31 : 11:50:55
