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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,145 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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 Posted - 2015/01/17 : 23:32:04
It's hardly a new problem but it's still a big one. People are still releasing tracks that have just been utterly slaughtered by compression. I don't have good ears so if I hear something and say "this sounds a bit shit", there's probably something horribly wrong with it. How the people mastering these tunes (who, presumably/hopefully, have much better hearing than I do) actually think they sound good is just beyond my comprehension.
I'm calling out one track in particular here because it was the one that inspired me to post this topic. That track is Dowster & Vagabond - Calling Your Name. Decent tune almost completely ruined by the ****ing earache of a mastering job.
Sort it out, for ****s sake.
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2015/01/17 : 23:39:19
Currently listening to the track on beatport, what am I supposed to be hearing exactly? I don't hear anything wrong with the track, it's actually one of their nicer tracks.
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oxis
Junior Member
Portugal
128 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 00:47:09
i think compression gets negative criticism a bit too much. its one of the more useful tools in engineering (and can be used for creative purposes in very neat ways)
it only becomes a problem to me when it murdera the dynamic range of the whole track to the point of having the kick and bass almost sound like one thing altogether. compression is useful, but if you put 2 compressors on your master with a ratio of 2 then its probably gonna sound like a sheet of paper. i cant really think of any overcompressed hardcore tracks that i really dislike though.
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 00:52:49
Might have been the low quality of the Beatport clip, but there's a painful amount of clipping on it.
A nice track, but like Elliott said, overcompressed.
If you're not sure what to listen for, listen to the snare. A loud and drawn out sound that should sound consistent and smooth, but you can hear it warped with clipping each time it plays.
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Edited by - Elipton on 2015/01/18 00:55:31 |
Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,145 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 01:21:35
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
Currently listening to the track on beatport, what am I supposed to be hearing exactly? I don't hear anything wrong with the track, it's actually one of their nicer tracks.
You might not be able to hear it properly on Beatport. Not sure how good the quality of the clips is. Like I said, I really do like the tune and I completely agree that the underlying music is nice. My only complaint is that it's been mastered by a butcher.
If you bought the track and had a listen to it, you'd be able to hear what I'm talking about. I think the overwhelming majority of people would at least notice the level of compression on it. The kick is horribly distorted and the snare is just a mess. Even the lead playing on its own is distorted, which goes to show exactly how enthusiastic the person who committed this atrocity actually was.
I've never actually heard a retail hardcore tune as overcompressed as this. You're Gonna Love Me by Hixxy and whoever else it was comes close though.
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Elliott
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United Kingdom
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Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 01:24:27
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
i think compression gets negative criticism a bit too much. its one of the more useful tools in engineering (and can be used for creative purposes in very neat ways)
it only becomes a problem to me when it murdera the dynamic range of the whole track to the point of having the kick and bass almost sound like one thing altogether. compression is useful, but if you put 2 compressors on your master with a ratio of 2 then its probably gonna sound like a sheet of paper. i cant really think of any overcompressed hardcore tracks that i really dislike though.
Have you actually heard this one?
No-one is criticising compression but I am criticising compression to the point of very obvious distortion on every single element in a track.
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oxis
Junior Member
Portugal
128 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 12:43:13
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
i think compression gets negative criticism a bit too much. its one of the more useful tools in engineering (and can be used for creative purposes in very neat ways)
it only becomes a problem to me when it murdera the dynamic range of the whole track to the point of having the kick and bass almost sound like one thing altogether. compression is useful, but if you put 2 compressors on your master with a ratio of 2 then its probably gonna sound like a sheet of paper. i cant really think of any overcompressed hardcore tracks that i really dislike though.
Have you actually heard this one?
No-one is criticising compression but I am criticising compression to the point of very obvious distortion on every single element in a track.
of course i did, its very obviously overcompressed but what do you want us to discuss then?? overcompression is objectively bad, everyone knows that. there is nothing to argue here ._. i dont see the point of "bad compression is bad", since its already implied by the fact that its overcompression
i wasnt referring to the track you posted when i mentioned that it is not necessarily bad to use compressors, as i hadnt even listened to it when i made my post because i was on mobile. it IS clearly too compressed just for the sake of having it be loud to fit industry standards
i mentioned regular compression because a lot of people get the impression that compression/limiters are an inherently bad thing, since everyone complains about compression left and right, when in truth they are just like any other tool, they are bad if used incorrectly (obviously)
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Edited by - oxis on 2015/01/18 12:47:22 |
Rodz90
Average Member
United Kingdom
208 posts
Joined: Sep, 2012
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 14:46:25
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
i think compression gets negative criticism a bit too much. its one of the more useful tools in engineering (and can be used for creative purposes in very neat ways)
it only becomes a problem to me when it murdera the dynamic range of the whole track to the point of having the kick and bass almost sound like one thing altogether. compression is useful, but if you put 2 compressors on your master with a ratio of 2 then its probably gonna sound like a sheet of paper. i cant really think of any overcompressed hardcore tracks that i really dislike though.
Have you actually heard this one?
No-one is criticising compression but I am criticising compression to the point of very obvious distortion on every single element in a track.
of course i did, its very obviously overcompressed but what do you want us to discuss then?? overcompression is objectively bad, everyone knows that. there is nothing to argue here ._. i dont see the point of "bad compression is bad", since its already implied by the fact that its overcompression
i wasnt referring to the track you posted when i mentioned that it is not necessarily bad to use compressors, as i hadnt even listened to it when i made my post because i was on mobile. it IS clearly too compressed just for the sake of having it be loud to fit industry standards
i mentioned regular compression because a lot of people get the impression that compression/limiters are an inherently bad thing, since everyone complains about compression left and right, when in truth they are just like any other tool, they are bad if used incorrectly (obviously)
I don't think he wants an argument, just to call out the tracks doing it, and get the respective producers to address the problem. At least that's what it looks like anyway.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,207 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 14:59:48
Don't know if it was really overly compressed or I got a bad MP3, but Kevin Energy - Twisted Sanity (Darwin remix) from the Kevin Energy bundle sounds like it clips alot (and that's not because I mixed it :P)
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MC Deecee
Average Member
United Kingdom
194 posts
Joined: Jul, 2009
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 17:50:02
Loads of my bought 320 mp3s clip, pretty sure some of my wavs do as well, they don't audibly clip but digitally they do, whacking them in something like audacity and using the amplify option often shows a minus adjustment is needed to bring things to 0db, is often only a small adjustment (-0.3 or something) but I have known a couple to be nearly a decibel out.
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oxis
Junior Member
Portugal
128 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 20:56:18
quote:
Originally posted by Rodz90:
I don't think he wants an argument, just to call out the tracks doing it, and get the respective producers to address the problem. At least that's what it looks like anyway.
fair, but it would be a better idea to complain about it to them instead of on this board. might aswell complain about all of their releases, because they are all compressed like that. this one especially sounds horrible: http://www.beatport.com/track/free-original-mix/6027653
but overcompression doesnt even seem to be a big problem to people who listen to hardcore anyway, there are very beloved songs that are overcompressed as hell.
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,145 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 21:22:56
quote:
Originally posted by Rodz90:
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
i think compression gets negative criticism a bit too much. its one of the more useful tools in engineering (and can be used for creative purposes in very neat ways)
it only becomes a problem to me when it murdera the dynamic range of the whole track to the point of having the kick and bass almost sound like one thing altogether. compression is useful, but if you put 2 compressors on your master with a ratio of 2 then its probably gonna sound like a sheet of paper. i cant really think of any overcompressed hardcore tracks that i really dislike though.
Have you actually heard this one?
No-one is criticising compression but I am criticising compression to the point of very obvious distortion on every single element in a track.
of course i did, its very obviously overcompressed but what do you want us to discuss then?? overcompression is objectively bad, everyone knows that. there is nothing to argue here ._. i dont see the point of "bad compression is bad", since its already implied by the fact that its overcompression
i wasnt referring to the track you posted when i mentioned that it is not necessarily bad to use compressors, as i hadnt even listened to it when i made my post because i was on mobile. it IS clearly too compressed just for the sake of having it be loud to fit industry standards
i mentioned regular compression because a lot of people get the impression that compression/limiters are an inherently bad thing, since everyone complains about compression left and right, when in truth they are just like any other tool, they are bad if used incorrectly (obviously)
I don't think he wants an argument, just to call out the tracks doing it, and get the respective producers to address the problem. At least that's what it looks like anyway.
Yeah, that's right mate. I just wanted a little whine! It's frustrating when great tracks are damaged by the mastering process.
And I know Dowster checks this forum so I'm hoping he sees this topic.
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2015/01/18 : 21:32:54
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by oxis:
i think compression gets negative criticism a bit too much. its one of the more useful tools in engineering (and can be used for creative purposes in very neat ways)
it only becomes a problem to me when it murdera the dynamic range of the whole track to the point of having the kick and bass almost sound like one thing altogether. compression is useful, but if you put 2 compressors on your master with a ratio of 2 then its probably gonna sound like a sheet of paper. i cant really think of any overcompressed hardcore tracks that i really dislike though.
Have you actually heard this one?
No-one is criticising compression but I am criticising compression to the point of very obvious distortion on every single element in a track.
of course i did, its very obviously overcompressed but what do you want us to discuss then?? overcompression is objectively bad, everyone knows that. there is nothing to argue here ._. i dont see the point of "bad compression is bad", since its already implied by the fact that its overcompression
i wasnt referring to the track you posted when i mentioned that it is not necessarily bad to use compressors, as i hadnt even listened to it when i made my post because i was on mobile. it IS clearly too compressed just for the sake of having it be loud to fit industry standards
i mentioned regular compression because a lot of people get the impression that compression/limiters are an inherently bad thing, since everyone complains about compression left and right, when in truth they are just like any other tool, they are bad if used incorrectly (obviously)
I get you. I'm a producer so I know there are many legitimate uses for compression. I also happen to like the way even fairly heavy compression on the master track sounds. I'm not anti-compression and I understand it very well. I just wanted to complain specifically about overly enthusiastic limiting during the mastering process because it's still a big problem. I know it's not new and it doesn't bother everyone but it still happens a lot and it bothers me.
I wasn't really hoping to provoke a debate or argument. It was just a moaning thread. I feel like it's something that needs to be brought up when there are artists out there butchering their music for the sake of "loud".
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Cyrax
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United Kingdom
623 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2015/01/19 : 09:34:50
It's a common thing for new producers and people who are unsure how to do there mastering, believe it or not what they manage to make does still sound better and louder when they apply the final touches themselves, if youre a new producer and you have a finished track that your proud of and happy with , you can get a decent master on it from ?10 upwards
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Impulse_Response
Advanced Member
United States
730 posts
Joined: Jun, 2013
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Posted - 2015/01/20 : 04:57:11
I can't speak for the Dowster tracks, but I know what you mean about overcompression. I don't run into it very often but when it shows up it's very annoying. In fact one of my favorite releases, NUNRG069, has that awful "distort bass crunch" sound throughout.
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Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2015/01/20 : 07:51:15
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax:
It's a common thing for new producers and people who are unsure how to do there mastering, believe it or not what they manage to make does still sound better and louder when they apply the final touches themselves, if youre a new producer and you have a finished track that your proud of and happy with , you can get a decent master on it from ?10 upwards
More often than not, it's experienced producers thinking they're competing in the "Loudness Wars". The louder your tracks, the more noticed they are in a mix - or so the theory goes. It's kind of a long-established sales strategy.
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