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Claxton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,050 posts Joined: Dec, 2011
Posted - 2016/09/26 : 13:55:52
I have been watching a couple of videos whilst busy at work ;) Da Tweekaz Defqon 1 set is one of them. It got me thinking about the similarities and differences between Hardcore and Hardstyle.
Hardstyle has been immensely successful at capturing the following of young people across mainland Europe and this has now spread the world around, with places such as the US, Australia and Eastern Asia having big followings.
There are obviously huge differences in youth culture on the continent in comparison to the UK, but the similarities between the two genres are palpable. In fact the only differences between them are 20bpm and a pitched bass drum. The music ranges from eurphoric to ravey and hard. The vocal tracks are identical as are the melodies. In the set below, track 3 is a remix of a hardcore track in Darren Styles & Recons' - Rest of Our Lives (yes, I know it was originally a house track) and the melody is exactly the same as the Hardcore version. The 6th track is a collab with Darren Styles and half of it is 170bpm. Look at the crowd reaction to it!!! Later in the set they drop a remix of Paradise's 'See The Light' which was done in Hardcore over a decade ago.
Other UK Hardcore artists such as Fracus & Darwin have done big official remixes of Hardstyle tracks. There are other ties with artists like Orbit 1 & Inverse now being big Hardstyle producers.
Hardstyle is cool. UK Hardcore/Happy Hardcore is the opposite to cool.
For me the model should be simple. Follow the Hardstyle lead. Capture the mass youth. If Hardstyle can thrive there is no reason at all why UK Hardcore can't. The European Hardcore scene has shown that BPM isn't a barrier.
Hardcore must become credible and cool, losing its long standing negative stigma.
The fact that the set below is on Youtube free of charge for all to see is a HUGE deal. UK Hardcore just doesn't have that (budget is a big deal and Blu The Roof is definitely along the right lines).
I know that there has been UK Hardcore played at Defqon 1 in Australia but wouldn't it be great to get a stage of the stuff at a big festival in the Netherlands? Even 3 or 4 sets on a stage at Defqon 1 would be massive. Surely infiltrating UK festivals would also be a big step. I know Gammer played a set at Creamfields, but we need more artists playing at these events.
This post is far too long for a Monday. What are you thoughts?
Guest Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,511 posts Joined: Feb, 2015
Posted - 2016/09/26 : 14:38:35
hardstyle is just a sub genre of hardcore which came out in 2002/3 when hardcore got reinvented and the mainstream jump name came into play, a few years later the world found out uk hardcore was shit so uk hardcore was forced to use the uk hardcore name worldwide
while gabba is just original hardcore from the early 90s, londoners thought they were special can kept the name when sy and vibes invented uk hardcore in 1996/7 when hardcore died
you can do more with hardcore, uk hardcore is all the same, and just boring after a hour or 2
hardstyle died and is nowhere near as big as it was in mid to late 2000s, then every track had the same melody, so hardcore got big, and rawstyle was invented to keep hardstyle alive
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Claxton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,050 posts Joined: Dec, 2011
Posted - 2016/09/26 : 14:42:25
quote:Originally posted by Guest:
hardstyle is just a sub genre of hardcore which came out in 2002/3 when hardcore got reinvented and the mainstream jump name came into play, a few years later the world found out uk hardcore was shit so uk hardcore was forced to use the uk hardcore name worldwide
while gabba is just original hardcore from the early 90s, londoners thought they were special can kept the name when sy and vibes invented uk hardcore in 1996/7 when hardcore died
you can do more with hardcore, uk hardcore is all the same, and just boring after a hour or 2
hardstyle died and is nowhere near as big as it was in mid to late 2000s, then every track had the same melody, so hardcore got big, and rawstyle was invented to keep hardstyle alive
trippnface Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts Joined: Jan, 2010
Posted - 2016/09/26 : 15:00:31
To be completely honest; I think trance is making a bigger come back and grabbing the attention of the true raving youth again most pre dominantly. Some solid uplifting; and prog psy is getting huge; big enough to reach main stage. Unheard of in the USA; at least. Hardstyle is pretending to get big again; but it won't. Wasn't a dedicated enough scene in the USA when it was thriving; and still isn't. It will never have the underground crowd/support happy/uk hardcore does. Most of the happy/ uk kids are not interested. I also do not think I am biased when I say most happy/ uk hardcore fans would tend toward trance over hardstyle. I would any day. I like happy/ uk for " the feelz" ; trance gives me zero. Not to mention trance philosophy is way closer to happy/ uk hardcore philosophy than hardstyle/ gabber. Totally different crews.
For example; Dreamstate socal is going to be a ****ing epic massive with 3 trance stages; one uplifting; one classic; and one prog psy... PROG PSY!!! sold out quick last year; people are ridiculously hyped up. Know tons of hardcore ravers going for the lovey euphoria feels. Hardstyle can't do that; and won't ;) .
I guess my point is I don't personally think hardstyle and hardcore are that alike; at all.
Especially when it comes down to the fanbase.
This gets me going way closer to hardcore than hardstlye ( even the fkn video; come on! ) even sounds freeformy at points!
ArdcorePower New Member
N/A
36 posts Joined: Jul, 2016
Posted - 2016/09/28 : 20:48:10
I used to dig hardstyle when it had more of a hard trance/hard house feel circa late 90's to mid 2000's. I know there is all these different sub genres now like "rawstyle" "subground" but this "rawstyle" stuff sounds to me like newstyle hardcore from the late 90's/early 2000's just revamped. I'm not sure if this is the type of sound you are talking about or just hardstyle as whole because there seems to be like factions within in it lol kind of like what is hardcore? do you mean spanish? or dutch or italian etc etc like that sort of jazz.
Frenchcore these days is basically UK hardcore on speed. I think if lots of UK hardcore listeners heard some good frenchtek/frenchcore stuff like Roms aka Harry Potar etc. I think lots would dig it.
I'm not sure if UK Hardcore will ever become like big room house or something along the lines. It seems like it comes and goes in waves. I think it's been on a bit of down swing but I think it will pick itself back up again. I stopped listening to lots of hardcore/gabber for about 10 years only listening to certain stuff because virtually all the labels i knew from the past changed and was now making "newstyle". "doom", "hard house/jump" "darkcore" etc. etc. typically 140-160 bpm stuff. I mean I liked it but I didn't like it so bad that it's all I wanted to hear all night. I also am heavily into breakbeats and hardcore was very breakbeat induced when I got introduced to it, so when that died down... I pretty much backed off and did some serious digging to try to find stuff that I would like and it was pretty hard for some years but long story short in 2016 I feel Hardcore is vibrant once again with lots of styles to choose from.
I hope UK Hardcore does catch on and producers get paid and more bookings for DJ's.
__________________________________
Oh please don't big league me!
djDMS Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
Posted - 2016/09/28 : 20:49:11
There have been attempts to model Hardcore on the success of pretty much everything over the past 15+ years, none have really worked out.
Basically, there just seems to be a built in dislike of Hardcore by most people and I don't know what can be done to change that.
Even a PR/Marketing genius would have trouble getting it out there to a much wider audience.
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Taking my time to perfect the beat
Guest Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,511 posts Joined: Feb, 2015
Posted - 2016/09/28 : 21:35:09
your gabba, proper hardcore gets life in the uk, it has everything people want, then everytime uk hardcore event kill it and start playing aload of shit nobody cares about, and don't actually get speedcore, frenchcore, uk gabba is pure ****ing shit and kills the party if you have all the folk inside with pimped cars and hunniez
and you also have aload of shit random gabba nights that start playing aload of shit, then they all disappear for years, so if anyone bothers with hardcore, they just put hardcore on the flyer and uk hardcore can have uk hardcore
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SparkzMusic Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts Joined: Apr, 2011
Posted - 2016/09/28 : 22:33:24
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
There have been attempts to model Hardcore on the success of pretty much everything over the past 15+ years, none have really worked out.
Basically, there just seems to be a built in dislike of Hardcore by most people and I don't know what can be done to change that.
The scene does not work well as a whole and that is the reason.
The whole scene was dictated by big names who occasionally let their mates on board. They, after clubland took an interest realised money was to be made and pushed it as mainstream as possible depending on what was in the charts at that time (Dubstep became a popular thing, so the scene turned that way), to pay off the mortgage or give them extra pocket money.
"Happy Hardcore" was tried until the very end. It became outdated. Even though there are still a lot of people who love that sound, it sounds very old and will never be as popular as it once was. Saying that, it was never designed to be "popular".
UK Hardcore never died out fully. The scene was doing better than ever, more events, better tracks (imo), but the big names that dictate the scene to the masses went on to follow on with the commercial success not by letting the genre die off, but by evolving it too quickly to suit the mainstream sound of the modern day market (for increases in pocket money allowances).
The scene has been left in a mess. What is the hardcore scene? Is it the tracks the big names are putting out? Or is it the "UK Hardcore" sound many bedroom producers are making?
Let's face it though, who would someone rather go out to an event to see? Some bedroom producer doing a set of their "UK Hardcore" tracks or a very big name who is doing a completely different set of their dub step style tracks? My money is on the big name.
Imo the scene will be dead entirely when the bignames quit or pass away because the majority of listeners only know the scene as Darren styles or any of the other names up there. Which is sad really because it's the same 6 or 7 names getting worshipped who are reeling in the cash and dominating the scene.
Producers can either try to join them by making stuff similar to what they make, or do their own thing to be cast in the shadows.
ViolonC Average Member
Germany
243 posts Joined: Sep, 2014
Posted - 2016/09/29 : 10:04:06
UK Hardcore has massively adapted the Hardstyle sound design in the last two years. It's kinda late to the party as Bigroom House already was there - maybe this was the real incentive to go there. Reverse Bass hardstyle has much in common with UK Hardcore, not surprising, and Powerstomp had been devised still a little earlier to be a bridge between them.
Hardstyle has reached a dead end and there has been little to no progress music wise - that's why revers bass has come back. Everybody threw little trap on their projects but that is just a cheap fix to have some variety and won't foster the genre. The success we see is the "mainstream" fan base that has established a little earlier and won't let go of the genre. And with Deep Tropical Future House all over there is desperate need for some harder music.
Happy Hardcore needs to find it's own place. To become successful in mainland Europe it will need to gain some traction in Germany. And i'm not seeing much effort there. Jumping on Hardstyle will mean jumping on a ship that sails nowhere. Regarding audience there might still be something to gain. Regarding music there needs to be a new direction. I guess we will be having dubcore again for about a year. Curious what will come next.
Guest Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,511 posts Joined: Feb, 2015
Posted - 2016/09/30 : 10:38:38
students and youth are still 2 different things entirely, europe already has hardcore and rawstyle
all uk hardcore can do is have its gabba room without all the frenchcore/speedcore/all teh ******** core, and just have 12 hours of your "mainstream" and get all the russians/italians/dutch in the doors
__________________________________ youtube channel / soundcloud and mixcloud suck
Modelling Hardcore on Hardstyle's Success
Printer friendly
Posted - 2016/09/26 : 13:55:52
