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mr bishi
Advanced Member
Ireland
874 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
49 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2003/06/12 : 18:13:36
quote:
mate dont forget the underground tapes :P
If i knew where to get them id luv ta get me hands on some,but is that not the same deal as mp3s the artists don't get a penny from them .
I'm a Derek and Dereks don't run!
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http://www.irishclubbing.net
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Edited by - mr bishi on 2003/06/12 18:47:54 |
silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/12 : 18:16:34
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle_Buffrey:
As for how mp3s affect hardcore and other such genres, there is not many of us who can afford a vinyl cutter, therefore mp3s probally have little effect on hardcore. It might harm compilations though.
There is no money in vinyl the CD's is where most artists get their money from, this is a major problem worldwide.
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle_Buffrey:
I no longer buy copied cds off dodgy traders unless it has been deleted and is no longer produced.
Thats crap, you can buy anything you want if you look hard enough, hardcore aint pop music you do not sell alot of units, hardcore producers are NOT rich at all....
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle_Buffrey:
MP3s are good as long as the talented artists are gaining recognition and good pay from it, and not losing out financially.
Thats crap, how can MP3's be good for talented artists? They are ripped off the most, they don't get money from ripped off shit.
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it's all hardcore.
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mr bishi
Advanced Member
Ireland
874 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
49 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/12 : 19:02:48
quote:
quote:Originally posted by krukev:
Yepz.. I use Mp3.. I'm sorry.. but they aren't publishing many hhc-cd's at the moment (in the Netherlands) I think
quote:
quote:Originally posted by silver
You are Distributing the files? How does that help your 8 euro a week? By stealing even more money from hardcore artists pockets? Having NO money is NO excuss to steal, GET A JOB!
Can't find it in your country? Buy on the internet!
Sliver you really don't like file sharing,but the truth is its here to stay and it going to get worse(as i speak ***** has 230,309,616 worldwide downloads).
Personally i use and distribute them and i am going to continue to do so
even though i am finally getting a credit card tomorrow because its simply
to expensive to buy tunes especially vinyl (1 tune would cost me
the same as a full album-still gona try n buy a load of vinyl though :p).
Anyway money is far better spent on porn on the internet
I'm a Derek and Dereks don't run!
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http://www.nioldskool.co.uk
http://www.irishclubbing.net
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 01:35:40
No I can't stop people... just like I can't stop people from taking drugs either but I can education and tell people what they are doing and who they are effecting by stealing the music.
Sure there are people that don't give a shit and steal things they are criminals... but it's your choice... you either support hardcore or your just a freeloader and no one has any respect for you here.
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it's all hardcore.
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Kyle_Buffrey
Junior Member
Tanzania
141 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
37 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 06:31:02
Sorry Silver,
Although I hugely respect your opinions on this matter, I really do think you misunderstood what I said a little then. I was talking about ALL genres of music not just hardcore, because I listen to all genres and not just hardcore, although I mostly listen to hardcore. Yeah hardcore producers are not rich and do deserve more money but, i never said hardcore was pop music at all, I'm afraid that in more mainstream genres, such as Pop ,some of untalented bland artists earn too much, for stale crap, therefore, it is only fair that they lose a bit of money, because people who test their albums on mp3 realise what they are doing is shit, and therefore buy a different cd instead. It is common for pop artist to release an album with 2 good tracks, and then use filler material to complete the cd. The radio nevers plays filler material, because the big record companies will not allow them to. Mp3 allows one to know what , the fat cats do not want them to know. (i.e Eminem's album might have 3 tracks that are well produced, but the rest might just be terrible.)
When I refer to mp3s being a good thing for the talented undiscovered artists, i am referring to use of mp3 as a promotional tool (which many artists are in favour of),it is quite common for an artist in any genre to place a mp3 of a full track on their website. Sy and Unknown do it, for example.
Mp3s can allow a talented undiscovered and unsigned artists to make more money and earn recognition, than they would without mp3s, because the radio and mass media would not take risks with their material. MP3 isn't all about piracy, it can be used as a method of giving out authorised free samples too. And sometimes artists give away their unreleased material on mp3 anyway, which is a good thankyou gift to the fans that bought their recordings and supported them.
As for being able to find anything on the internet, I 'm afraid that I still do not fully believe commence to be completely safe yet. I will buy from reputable companies, but If I do not trust a site, regardless of whether it has the rare release or not, I do not wish for people to steal my card details.
I am pleased that bonkers 2 has been re-released, I didn't want to pay £40 for a scratched second hand cd on e-bay, and I didn't want to get a pirate copy either.
As for the money being in the cds, and not in vinyl, i did mention that mp3 can harm compilations. Which are mostly produced on cd.
I do not agree with stealing music using mp3 , But I do agree with the use of mp3 as an authorised promotional tool. It is like radio, it allows a user to hear something before it is released. Before mp3, freeloaders would tape off the radio. If there was no radio, no mp3 and no tv exposure of all types of music, pop, rap, rock, dance,trance ,hardcore, classical, morris dancing music, whatever it is.... we would all probally just buy the tracks with the funniest names, such as - Screeching weasel - I hate Led Zeppelin, or NOFX - Fun things to ****, e.t.c and if anyone wants to contribute a funny hardcore track title to the list feel free to do so. . Wouldn't it be a bad thing if we had no idea what we was actually buying? That is why, radio,t.v mp3 performance of stuff is a good thing, if done correctly.
If you understood what i had said, you would have realised I actually agree with a lot of what you say!
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 08:12:20
Silver, you seem to have a very black and white view of this problem which doesn't get you anywhere.
People only pirate things when there is a reason to pirate them, yes I am aware that some people pirate for the sake of pirating but many don't.
I sure didn't. When I found, by accident hardcore I downloaded as much as I could find on napster (back in the day ;)). So you'd call this stealing and ripping people off? I really don't because there's only two options here:
I have no idea what hardcore is, so I dnt buy it.
I get these songs for free and don't buy it (at the time ;))
neither option gives them money, so there's no lost earnings, no stealing. I did this to discovover the music, nothing more, nothing less.
Now I have found it *thanks entirely to my downloads* I have spent at least 5/600 pounds on hardcore, well clearing my debt in hardcore.
I in no way consider my self a criminal or a freeloader, and I never did. I dnt belive for a second that peoole have anymore or any less respect for me for what I did.
This is the grey area you dnt seem to accept silver ( I say *seem* unless I mis understand you). That grey area is what a lot of people are in.
People aren't going to buy a deck just so they can listen to the latest track, and trying to find a cd with it on, pre-mixed isn't really an accptable alternative, so please do not offer it as one.
this is a gap inthe market, hardcore CD singles, unmixed, that people can easily get thier hands on (i.e. the non DJ's). I fully understand people that would pirate a vinyl because they don't have a deck.
I dnt consider either of these people freeloaders, so please don't try and blanket everyone with that description. I dnt pirate anymore, but I did and I dnt have any regrets.
(I'm hung over so it's came out a bit fragmented :S)
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Edited by - atomicb on 2003/06/13 08:16:35 |
whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 08:44:37
Hmmm.... I'm with silver on this one. The points all have are true, But its like communism looks good in paper but in real life it doesnt work.
as long as majority of people are self-centred idiots, it doesnt work...
But i totally support samples, streaming etc.
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Edited by - whispering on 2003/06/13 08:45:59 |
Weird Fish
Senior Member
Aruba
437 posts
Joined: Apr, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 08:58:52
I think everybody missed silvers point.
If you would make a song and put it up for sale, whether its cd or vinyl, and ppl start to put it on mp3 and filesharing it. Others will dwnl it and start pirating it or dwnl it for personal usage. But the artist put it up for sale so you can purchase the song and in no way you are contributing to the scene or helping the artist if you are dwnl songs or put one song for filesharing. They are ppl too and it is their work and have the right to earn money so they can have food to eat.
. convert to mp3 so others can dwnl
. dwnl mp3
. burning mp3 to cd tracks
(considering you don't own any track for the above mentioned, converting to mp3s implies that you are part of the criminal action, cause you put it up for sharing)
All this I consider criminal actions(not saying you're a criminal), not trying to label anyone hereby, but silver is right about educating; it would be the only way.
What would you feel about it, if you make a song and put it up for sale and then suddenly ppl start mp3 sharing, your sale would go down the drain and you would end up earning nothing and yet everybody has your song.
If you want a song so bad why would you steal it, buy it. It shows respect to the artist.
_ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ___
I was 41,47727272727273 % insane last year,
now I'm 51.70454545454546 %insane
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.. .born free::...
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virus
Advanced Member
Canada
4,346 posts
Joined: May, 2001
716 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 09:24:14
______________________________________________________________
We came here tonight to get started, to cold act ill or get retarded
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My Record Collection Can Beat Up Your Record Collection.
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Chrysostomou
Senior Member
United Kingdom
381 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 09:47:34
i agree with silver in the end... Downloading material that the producer or artist doesn't get financial credit is wrong full stop..
HARDCORE FOREVER
if video games affected us as children, then we would all be running around in dark rooms, munching magical pills and dancing to repetitive music!
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LIVE LIFE TO THE HARDCORE!
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 12:20:54
*shrugs* I simply dnt agree per see. They do more good than they do harm IMO and I guess I should just leave my point at that.
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 13:54:07
I totally agree with everything that Silver has said.
quote:
I have no idea what hardcore is, so I dnt buy it.
I get these songs for free and don't buy it (at the time ;))
neither option gives them money, so there's no lost earnings, no stealing. I did this to discovover the music, nothing more, nothing less.
Although that is true, it's still not the point at all, it's about principals, you should't download them in the first place :P
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Edited by - Hard2Get on 2003/06/13 14:10:54 |
atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 14:57:56
I'm simply never going to agree with you on that ^_^
Ihave very strong feelings on the subject now I DJ and can get and play the tunes I want and know where to get them. However the fact still remains I've spend the best part of a grand which I never would have spent otherwise - they 'lost' perhaps the price of a cd to me and gained the price of many many cd's and lots of vinyl. I see no problem with this and the first thing I'll do (and have done) do break into other music scenes is download what i can and try to find what I like.
I'm not the kinda person that would every buy blind. I'd never have picked up a hardcore cd if I wasn't already quite sure that I'd like it.
Frankly, I'm never going to agree with anyone that says that is wrong. I have my principles - If I download it, and I like it, I shall buy it - end of discussion. But if you are trying to suggest back then that I should've baught a cd without a clue what I was looking for I'm not going to accept it ;)
Hardcore more than a lot of other types of music is helped, not hinderd by mp3 and that's how I feel.
oh, and yes first thing I do when I get bonkers etc is rip them to my home pc, copy it to my laptop and then rip it to my xbox, that doesn't matter I know but what I'd like to point out is that even though I could share these on kazaa or whatever no problem I dnt - my principles again.
Please do not assume that just because I condone the occasional mp3 download for test purposes that I have no principles regarding this stuff, because I do, very strong ones. I could've given all my friends a copy of my bonkers cd's. I didn't - I made all of them buy thier own.
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 15:03:55
quote:
Please do not assume that just because I condone the occasional mp3 download for test purposes that I have no principles regarding this stuff, because I do, very strong ones. I could've given all my friends a copy of my bonkers cd's. I didn't - I made all of them buy thier own.
I didn't for a second think that you didn't :)
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BAD_WES
Senior Member
United States
326 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/13 : 21:14:24
Well mp3's suck. I used to be a big fan of them, but i didnt have a job, and i didnt like hardcore at the time (well actually i didnt know what it was). I didnt download mp3's to get into hardcore. I actually just bought H2bH1 on a whim and loved it. Mp3's suck.
When I post, i shoud really be sleeping.
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