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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2003/07/17 : 01:48:09
As a song writer you write a song for people to hear it, the more people that hear it the better... if you have to make a new trance version (it's the same song) so more people can listen to it great... If you dont like it, dont buy it... I dont know why people complain about this so much.... this aint bad.
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it's all hardcore.
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 02:07:42
"Broken" you are extremely ill informed. F&S or me for that matter, haven't "sold out", we are exploiting our catalogue of "songs". Just because a song has been used in a hardcore track doesn't make it exclusively for hardcore. I need to eat and to eat I must exploit my songs as do F&S and everyone else. Amazing as it may seem to you, if I relied on my hardcore releases alone, my grand total of income for the last two years would be...... $600. But I still love the music and the scene and release what I can.
Everyone seems to think the music industry is like some "happy land" where everone says hello to each other and we all get together and speak nicely and the money doesn't matter. Aim comments like these to the producers that come into our scene when it's on a high and cash in, then leave.
As for the PRS, its a half truth, you need to get permission from the MCPS to use an artists song, (www.mcps.co.uk), and if they are published as F&S are, they will be notified and permission asked. AATW, despite what everyone thinks, actually did this licensing legally and above board... how many hardcore artists can say they did that when they rip off massive tracks consistently. This scene is the worst for ripping off songwriters and record companies I know. Even it's own record companies and artists rip each other off....
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Broken
Junior Member
United States
145 posts
Joined: Mar, 2003
34 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 02:22:49
<---is not an idiot and understands the importance of food for human survival
<---loves music for the sake of loving music
<---relies on a steady job for income, hence keeping love of music separate from money
<---has utmost respect for artists who make great music, especially those who do so without giving profit margins a second thought
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B.C
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,747 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
35 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 02:29:12
When you get into the nitty-gritty of it u realise it doesnt really matter!
I agree with Silver that it is doing sumthing 4 the scene and people may be tempted to hunt down the original hence getting more people hooked!
As long as we've got Hixxy,Scott Brown and Breeze & Styles doing remixes of these songs then y'all shud b happy ur gettin more stuff 2 listen 2,or not listen 2 as ur choice may be!
"Belong To The Hardcore Regime! Wake Up From Your Synthetic Dreams!....WE Are Your Future!!!"
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"The music was like new, black, polished chrome
that came over the summer like liquid night"
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 02:55:40
quote:
Originally posted by B.C_in_the_mix:
I agree with Silver that it is doing sumthing 4 the scene and people may be tempted to hunt down the original hence getting more people hooked!
You cant talk about the original, now how you can hunt it down?
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Underloop
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,895 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
91 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 03:05:21
Broken..... if you love music for the sake of loving music, would you not be interested to see what somebody else could do with a track you wrote? A fresh pair of ears? Just because you don't like trance doesn't mean that other people don't like it..... and maybe Force & Styles actually like whats been done with it!!!????!!!
I myself am quite into Punk as well as hardcore (and a milion other types of music), and am considering working with a group round my way on a punk cover of a classic hardcore track.... no doubt I will get slated for it, but it is definitely not because I think I can make a quick buck (in fact it may never see the light of day except at gigs), it is because it is a great song which I think will work in a punk context!
As I said earlier, it is only the vocals IMO that let down the Ultrabeat track, the remix itself is actually pretty good. As for the other tracks that have been coming out of AATW.... Field of Dreams, Heart of Gold, Shooting Star etc, they are very good covers (and if you disagree why don't you ask the million plus clubbers who dance to them every weekend!) All of them transfer across the genres well, because they are good songs IN THEIR OWN RIGHT!!!
And Nick's point about the Hardcore scene ripping off left right and centre is a VERY valid point..... how many different genres have been ripped off by hardcore? Hardcore is known for ripping off other people's tracks..... almost as much as hip-hop (if not more!)
As has been said many, many times before.... if you don't like it, don't listen to it!!
Oh, and sorry about the PRS bit, I havn't had that much experience with that side of things yet, but cheers for the info Nick, that will come in handy in the near future 
Matthew aka DJ Underloop
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"Turn that shit up!!!!!"
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 03:12:52
I'm not against covers of songs - just badly thought out ones who's ONLY motivation is profit.
Quite rightly it's been pointed out that the 'borrowing' of tunes etc has gone on for a long time with hardcore being the worst culprit (often illegally).
Also, i have nothing against songs being made for a wider audience as long as there is some thought put into the process. There is nothing wrong with the original artist allowing cover versions of their tunes ESPECIALLY if they can get more money out of - then hopefully people like Nick and F&S are being rewarded for all their hard work in the past (albeit belatedly)
Some of the trance covers of Hardcore songs are decent, some bad - pretty much the same as most of the Trance that's being turned into Hardcore that is flooding the scene at the moment so we'd be wise to stop generalising things and value each tune/scene as it deserves to be.
I still think Ultrabeat's Pretty Green Eyes is crap though! 
Soap on a rope....and I don't do coke
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 03:18:17
Sorry Matt, didnt see that was you about the PRS, I know you know better,
name one great artist that doesnt make music for profit? You wont because they dont exist.
you dont love music for the sake of loving music because if you did youd respect the music created by everyone and not point such vitriolic comments at people.
You have the ability to keep music and money seperate because you are not a professional artist. Some of us are, and music and money go hand in hand, we cant escape that.
I think you dont understand that food is needed for survival because if you did, you'd understand I need to make money, from music, to eat.
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 03:40:10
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
Broken..... if you love music for the sake of loving music, would you not be interested to see what somebody else could do with a track you wrote?
I know this wasnt aimed to me, but ill give my thoughts anyway :)
Saying this don't give a damn about the hardcore scene, can only mean one thing, he did not like the original but still made a cover only to get some cash, is that a good thing? is this how ppl make good music?
I havent heard Flip'n'Fill saying anything like that, although i have both of the F'n'F shooting star singles, and didnt see any mention about the original, why?
and now they are saying that we cant even talk about the originals in a forum, WTF...
I do not have anything against Nick getting money from hard work, and i actually liked the f'n'f cover, not as much as the original but anyway. and i usually like these covers very much, but if they dont respect the scene where the original takes part, why should we respect them?
But like Nick sayd the music industry is not a "happy land"...
EDIT: That not-giving-credit-to-the-original-artist point was not aimed only to aatw, but to the hole music industry...
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Edited by - whispering on 2003/07/17 04:32:09 |
B.C
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,747 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
35 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 04:36:30
quote:
You cant talk about the original, now how you can hunt it down?
simply by word of mouth..not everyone bases there knowledge on happyhardcore.com...although it is a useful medium!
"Belong To The Hardcore Regime! Wake Up From Your Synthetic Dreams!....WE Are Your Future!!!"
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"The music was like new, black, polished chrome
that came over the summer like liquid night"
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 04:51:08
you're all being hypocritical. basically trance rips hardcore and vise versa,you go mad when a hardcore tune gets covered but mention nothing when a trance tune is ripped by hardcore. at least when they rip us they do it legally.....
and i'll be honest,its the same as all the old flip n fill tracks etc. the cover is good,not a patch on the hardcore version tho
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"I had 2 half-brothers and they both died, so Mummy took the chainsaw off me"
DJ Mouse
http://hardcorehq.tk
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 05:35:54
Look... believe me I understand that people feel passionate about hardcore... I do too, and I also understand that people feel that the hardcore versions of tracks don't get the same exposure or recognition as a trance cover with chart places, airplay, compilations etc.
HOWEVER... when a song is covered by an artist (any song.. any artist) you can't seriously expect that artist to go around forever mentioning the original or where it came from, they need to promote their own version.
I have to say, that Ive never heard F&F EVER slagging off Bang!, Next Gen, Ham, Brisk, me, Jo....
Everyone does covers, some we don't realise their covers til much later, mainly because the artists doing the covers don't promote someone else, they promote themselves, after all it's their promotions company, their promotions money that in the end comes from thier royalties.
Please don't make it so that the long standing artists in the scene that have been really attacked in some of these threads don't just leave altogether. Scott Brown has just released a double hardcore album and he's working extensively with AATW and their artists too, so would anyone say to his face that he's "sold out" ??
Come on guys, some of these covers are funding a lot of artists making hardcore music including myself don't push us away by slagging us off because we have the ability to make really quality tunes.
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jambo 29
Junior Member
United Kingdom
135 posts
Joined: May, 2003
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 05:55:29
Why is it now people want 2 do remixes of hardcore tunes from 5 yrs ago y didnt they do it back then
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ryg0r
Advanced Member
Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
34 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 06:18:31
who is this "ultrabeat" that you speak of?
is it the ultrabeat from sweden??
-=[ryg0r]=-
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2003/07/17 : 07:36:53
quote:
Originally posted by ryg0r:
who is this "ultrabeat" that you speak of?
is it the ultrabeat from sweden??
http://www.aatw.com/ULTRABEAT.htm
Nick of Blaze! i wouldnt ever start slagging from a little thing like this...
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