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 All forums
 Music discussion - hardcore
 Billy Jump's plagiarism
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choonland
Advanced Member



Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
Posted - 2018/08/26 :  06:33:13  Show profile Send a private message  Visit choonland's homepage
I am very sad and disappointed with Billy Jump.

I am not very active on the forums and I've been a little off the map last years, however I just happen to have found that Billy Jump has plagiarised one of my tracks.

I don't like putting someone on the spot, but I take these matters very seriously.

About 3 years ago Billy Jump contacted me and asked me if he could make a remix of a track of mine called "Hardcore".
This is my original track:
https://soundcloud.com/naturatech/hardcore-eng

I agreed and sent him a remix pack with the midi, vocals, etc. We even signed a contract and agreed upon royalties. Although I never received any, I just assumed it was never sold, as often happens with hardcore tracks.

Anyway, Billy made the remix and released it online. It was called:
Naturatech - Hardcore (Billy Jump Remix)

Right now the remix appears to have been deleted from every site (soundcloud, youtube, etc.) but if you google it you will see many entries of it.

The thing is that today I heard this track from him called "Digital Rush", which to my ears is basically the same track of mine, with some minor modifications in the main melody. The similarity is just too much for me to let it go.

I will let your ears be the judges:

https://soundcloud.com/djbillyjump/billy-jump-digital-rush-project-doublezero

I wish I was mistaken, but due to the background I described, it is obvioues to me that this is just a blatant case of plagiarism in which he refurbished my track and the remix he made, to make it pass as a new and original track.

I feel very offended and disappointed.

The saddest thing is that the remix was actually very good, I still have it and listen to it from time to time. Now it is tainted.

I just wanted to let people now about this. You never really know who you are dealing with.
:(


__________________________________
https://soundcloud.com/naturatech


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robertybob
Senior Member



United Kingdom
309 posts
Joined: Jul, 2005
Posted - 2018/08/26 :  23:05:09  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit robertybob's homepage
I agree that they both tracks sound very similar.

Thankfully (if that's the right word), I don't think you would have lost out on much in the way on royalities (if it was a big artist then obviously that would be different)


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Samination
Advanced Member



Sweden
12,324 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004


195 hardcore releases
Samination has attended 17 events
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  06:24:58  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Samination's homepage
I used it in a mix of mine:
https://soundcloud.com/samination/hardcore-summer-bash-2016
Skip to 29:30 to hear it.

I guess there was a reason behind why I called him a generic artist :P

Anyways, I also liked his remix, and even played it in a set of mine. I wouldn't mind much if he just used the samples he got from you for a new track.


__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
---------------------------------------------


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Edited by - Samination on 2018/08/27 13:34:03
DjBillyJump
Junior Member



United Kingdom
85 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  07:14:47  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit DjBillyJump's homepage
Ok first of all I'm sorry you think this way but you are very much mistaken Digital Rush is 100% all my own work I did'nt use any midi or samples that were'nt my own so if it sounds similar then it is purely a coincidence, try listening to some new UK Hardcore every track sounds the same!

secondly I removed the clip of the remix from Souncloud along with a number of other tracks a long time ago to make space as those tracks were'nt getting any attention.

And lastly I'm disgusted at this post, if you had a problem you could have contacted me first.

You my friend are just another reason I have left the Hardcore Scene.


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DjBillyJump
Junior Member



United Kingdom
85 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  09:11:57  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit DjBillyJump's homepage
Also in regards to royalties I don't know how many units that remix sold though I'm guessing it will only be quite literally a few and from that few the label and the sites it was distributed to will have a cut and anything I got for it I will happily spilt 50/50 so if you really want me to try and find out how many pence, yes pence not pounds you're owed then let me know.

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DjBillyJump
Junior Member



United Kingdom
85 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  09:39:51  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit DjBillyJump's homepage
Infact I'm happy for you to have 100% of anything made from that remix, it will still be pennies.



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sebastianNL
New Member



Netherlands
40 posts
Joined: Jun, 2016
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  10:11:14  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit sebastianNL's homepage
I am definitely not convinced this is plagiarism. Putting this here instead of contacting Billy is very unprofessional in my opinion.



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DjBillyJump
Junior Member



United Kingdom
85 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  13:26:59  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit DjBillyJump's homepage
Like I said Digital Rush is completely 100% my own work so if there's a similarity its purely coincidence!
people should get their facts straight before making accusations like this, you've made me look like a horrible piece of shit.

You couldn't be any more wrong.


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Samination
Advanced Member



Sweden
12,324 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004


195 hardcore releases
Samination has attended 17 events
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  13:53:31  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Samination's homepage
Modified my original post to reflect what I am going to post here:

I've changed my mind. Considering the timeframe, I would believe it's more of the case of Billy humming or thinking about a sound and wrote it down. While I do still think they sound similar, almost to the brink of being plagiarized, it's not on the same level as the Eurovision Song Contest :P

If you haven't tried to make contact with Billy to clarify your thoughts before making this public post, that wasn't really good.

And Billy... while the Hardcore scene do have it's problem (a whoooooooooooooole can of whoop ass), I highly doubt someone like choonland is the reason why people like you leave. But that's for another topic.


__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
---------------------------------------------


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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Triquatra is a site donation subscriber Triquatra has attended 26 events
Posted - 2018/08/27 :  15:34:53  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Triquatra's homepage
Certainly can hear the similarities. If it had happened to me, I think I would have gone down a slightly more subtle route than calling him out.

I mean I can understand not contacting the artist first...no matter who it was, after putting effort into the track they're not going to just take it down, if they're not giving credit it is because they don't think any is required (which may or may not be justified) so it's a dead end. The only option you're left with is to put a little info out there highlighting it.

Now there are two ways to do that. You can either go nuclear....for the throat which usually ends in bad feelings all round and an explosive thread.

or the other way which is more subtle.

a very short post that doesn't make any accusations that simple says

"Hey don't these sound similar, great track though!"
and just leave it at that.
Odds are the artist in question will likely reply with something like "thank you, hah, yes I guess they do sound kind of similar" and that will be that.
People can hear and see "who came first" but ultimately they will enjoy one, both or neither of them.
Artistic integrety isn't particularly damaged on either side, you got your info out there for anyone searching; both artists end up with more exposure.



For what it's worth, both tracks sound great!


__________________________________
Triquatra/Bee Trax/Cuttlefish
http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -


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DjBillyJump
Junior Member



United Kingdom
85 posts
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Posted - 2018/08/27 :  15:55:00  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit DjBillyJump's homepage
Again, I wrote Digital Rush.

I made the lead using notes built up from the pads. I didn't use midi from anyone else, they sound similar and that's all there is to it.




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Cyrax
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2018/08/29 :  10:14:25  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Cyrax's homepage
Very similar sounding tracks but doesn't all hardcore sound like that.



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choonland
Advanced Member



Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
Posted - 2018/08/29 :  19:22:44  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit choonland's homepage
Ok, I accept this wasn't the best route. To be honest I wrote the original post in the heat of the moment, and it felt like the right thing to do then.

If Digital Rush had been written by a completely different artist, completely unrelated to me, I would have assumed it was a coincidence. But since there was a background with the remix, it was very clear to me that he had just reused the remix and shuffle some notes around.

Let's admit then that it was a coincidence and Digital Rush is an original song. Although I still have my doubts, I will deal with that.

If that is the case, Billy, I just must say that your musicianship is rather poor.
At the very least when you were writting the track you should have thought "humm, this sounds very similar to something I did before... I better do something different."

You should have noticed the similarites and at least foreseen that the track could lift some suspicions. To me, that alone would have been enough not to release the track.

Hell, I wouldn't release a track of my own if it sounded so similar to any of my own previous works.

Either way, If you are saying the truth, and you wrote 100% of the track from scratch, well, I apologize.

About the money and royalties. I don't have interest in that.

I only make music out of passion.

If you feel aggravated by this thread. Please contact Silver and have it deleted.


__________________________________
https://soundcloud.com/naturatech


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Edited by - choonland on 2018/08/29 23:36:43
choonland
Advanced Member



Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
Posted - 2018/08/29 :  19:26:26  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit choonland's homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Triquatra:
Now there are two ways to do that. You can either go nuclear....for the throat which usually ends in bad feelings all round and an explosive thread.

or the other way which is more subtle.



You are right Triquatra, that is good advise, for life in general
I will use the second way next time.



__________________________________
https://soundcloud.com/naturatech


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The drunken scotsman
Advanced Member



United Kingdom
1,416 posts
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Posted - 2018/08/30 :  12:04:17  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit The drunken scotsman's homepage
quote:
Originally posted by choonland:
quote:
Originally posted by Triquatra:
Now there are two ways to do that. You can either go nuclear....for the throat which usually ends in bad feelings all round and an explosive thread.

or the other way which is more subtle.



You are right Triquatra, that is good advise, for life in general
I will use the second way next time.





Not always the best way if you have something to get off your chest though. Do whatever you feel is right at the time. Nuclear approach is sometimes necessary.


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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2018/08/30 :  13:02:51  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Triquatra's homepage
Yea, sometimes you have to get something off your chest otherwise you'll explode and the only way to do it is sometimes to go turbo; I do understand that entirely.

If it can be helped I think its a better outcome to avoid it; at least for long term headache and prides sake.


__________________________________
Triquatra/Bee Trax/Cuttlefish
http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -


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