| Author |
Thread |
|
Karthy
Senior Member
United Kingdom
337 posts
Joined: Jun, 2011
|
 Posted - 2011/10/13 : 11:36:50
Okay can anyone effectively define the two? It's annoyed me for so long, I've been taught that UK Hardcore is just an evolved Happy Hardcore (Beefier samples, bit slower possibly) which seems very silly so I'm kinda questioning it.
The cheesy UK Hardcore is so similar to Happy Hardcore that there may aswell be no difference, yet there is the minimal drops side of UK Hardcore that shows alot more different from the cheesy side of it than between cheesy UK Hardcore and Happy Hardcore.
Do I have it all wrong or am I in some way correct and the whole defining of genres genuinely crap?
If I am right, is HHC even made anymore by anyone?
Alert moderator 
|
Audio Warfare
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,046 posts
Joined: Mar, 2009
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 12:34:08
Happy Hardcore - Stuff from the 90's. It was actually around the same speed but DJ's tended to pitch things up more. Trance sounds did creep in towards the end with a few guys such as Scott Brown but tended to have stab leads, bigger kicks but a less obvious bass.
Some people would also argue that only the happier breakbeat stuff that was around in the early 90's is Happy Hardcore, just to confuse things. ;)
UK Hardcore - 2000/2001ish to current time. Starting with the early Raver Baby's etc. Takes influence from more modern dance music, Trance at first then Scouse, now Electro etc.
Some people would argue they are one and the same but they are quite distinct. It is of course all under the genre Hardcore though.
__________________________________
Listen to released and forthcoming Audio Warfare/Audio Weaponry tunes here:-
http://soundcloud.com/audio-warfare
Alert moderator
Edited by - Audio Warfare on 2011/10/13 12:35:38 |
Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 12:46:07
^ this!
Mortis is still making it, I like to think i am, but i've been concentrating on other genres recently, i've only ever put about 10% of the stuff i produce online, the rest of it sits on my hard drive gathering dust
__________________________________
Triquatra/Bee Trax/Cuttlefish
http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -
Alert moderator
|
Karthy
Senior Member
United Kingdom
337 posts
Joined: Jun, 2011
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 15:01:47
So really it is alot to do with the age? If I look back through all the bonkers albums (listening to one song from each) you can hear a slow transition, but I don't understand why it is based off age. I mean surely you can't just say somethings a new genre just because the sound evolved a bit (otherwise there'd be billions of different dubstep genres).
I know they all pretty much derived from the same thing, but cheesy UK Hardcore is still HHC in my eyes because the structure is generally the same, it just uses different and more evolved samples, with much better production. Whereas the difference between lets say Gabber and HHC is much more obvious (in that there is actually a difference other than date of release  )
Alert moderator
Edited by - Karthy on 2011/10/13 15:02:15 |
Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 15:15:48
if you made a happy hardcore track right now it would still be happy hardcore
so in that respect it isnt really age - it just so happens that that style was made during that time period
__________________________________
Triquatra/Bee Trax/Cuttlefish
http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -
Alert moderator
|
Audio Warfare
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,046 posts
Joined: Mar, 2009
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 15:22:50
quote:
Originally posted by Karthy:
So really it is alot to do with the age? If I look back through all the bonkers albums (listening to one song from each) you can hear a slow transition, but I don't understand why it is based off age. I mean surely you can't just say somethings a new genre just because the sound evolved a bit (otherwise there'd be billions of different dubstep genres).
I know they all pretty much derived from the same thing, but cheesy UK Hardcore is still HHC in my eyes because the structure is generally the same, it just uses different and more evolved samples, with much better production. Whereas the difference between lets say Gabber and HHC is much more obvious (in that there is actually a difference other than date of release )
Not all to do with age, no. more to do with the fact that Happy Hardcore pretty much fell on its arse at the end of the decade and barely anyone was making it. Then something new came along from most of the same guys that took off (UK Hardcore). They sound very different to me, a lot more different than say Hardstyle and Hard Trance when Hardstyle first started.
I don't think the new cheese and the old Happy Hardcore cheese sound similar at all personally. Different vibe to most of it.
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
if you made a happy hardcore track right now it would still be happy hardcore
Exactly.
__________________________________
Listen to released and forthcoming Audio Warfare/Audio Weaponry tunes here:-
http://soundcloud.com/audio-warfare
Alert moderator
Edited by - Audio Warfare on 2011/10/13 15:34:01 |
Warnman
Advanced Member
Germany
2,676 posts
Joined: Jun, 2010
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 19:07:30
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
Some people would also argue that only the happier breakbeat stuff that was around in the early 90's is Happy Hardcore, just to confuse things. ;)
But isn't this point the original definition of UK Hardcore (as the connecting link between Jungle and Happy Hardcore/Drum'n Bass)?
__________________________________
Ravers unite!
"Happy Hardcore: Love it... hate it... it's fun!" (Matt Stokes)
Alert moderator
|
warped_candykid
Advanced Member
United States
3,934 posts
Joined: Jan, 2004
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 21:38:20
I still call it Happy Hardcore because it's the same genre, same artists, but just a different sound. Country has evolved, but it's still called Country. Pop music has evovled, but it's still called pop. It's pointless to call it "UK Hardcore" when it's been made in the UK throughout the 90s. I acknowledge that people consider the new stuff "UK Hardcore" and if that's what they want to call it, then fine, but it seems rather pointless to me...just sayin'.
Alert moderator
|
Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 21:59:31
quote:
Originally posted by warped_candykid:
I still call it Happy Hardcore because it's the same genre, same artists, but just a different sound. Country has evolved, but it's still called Country. Pop music has evovled, but it's still called pop. It's pointless to call it "UK Hardcore" when it's been made in the UK throughout the 90s. I acknowledge that people consider the new stuff "UK Hardcore" and if that's what they want to call it, then fine, but it seems rather pointless to me...just sayin'.
Country is the blanket term, just as "hardcore" is the blanket term
Country musics styles are evolving all the time just like Hardcore music styles are evolving
Hillbilly Boogie evolved into Rockabilly in just the same way that Happy Hardcore eventually evolved into UK Hardcore
and Pop isnt a genre per say - pop stands for "popular" so thats always going to evolve, change, and cover a wide variety of genres
personally i've always thought UK Hardcore was daft as we arent the only ones who make it
much prefer just new school hardcore or maybe 'Upfront Hardcore'
or just hardcore.
__________________________________
Triquatra/Bee Trax/Cuttlefish
http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -
Alert moderator
Edited by - Triquatra on 2011/10/13 22:05:13 |
warped_candykid
Advanced Member
United States
3,934 posts
Joined: Jan, 2004
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 22:21:34
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
quote:
Originally posted by warped_candykid:
I still call it Happy Hardcore because it's the same genre, same artists, but just a different sound. Country has evolved, but it's still called Country. Pop music has evovled, but it's still called pop. It's pointless to call it "UK Hardcore" when it's been made in the UK throughout the 90s. I acknowledge that people consider the new stuff "UK Hardcore" and if that's what they want to call it, then fine, but it seems rather pointless to me...just sayin'.
Country is the blanket term, just as "hardcore" is the blanket term
Country musics styles are evolving all the time just like Hardcore music styles are evolving
Hillbilly Boogie evolved into Rockabilly in just the same way that Happy Hardcore eventually evolved into UK Hardcore
and Pop isnt a genre per say - pop stands for "popular" so thats always going to evolve, change, and cover a wide variety of genres
personally i've always thought UK Hardcore was daft as we arent the only ones who make it
much prefer just new school hardcore or maybe 'Upfront Hardcore'
or just hardcore.
I'm fine with just Hardcore, but then you have people gripe about that as well.
Alert moderator
|
Warnman
Advanced Member
Germany
2,676 posts
Joined: Jun, 2010
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 22:42:43
quote:
Originally posted by warped_candykid:
I still call it Happy Hardcore because it's the same genre, same artists, but just a different sound. Country has evolved, but it's still called Country. Pop music has evovled, but it's still called pop. It's pointless to call it "UK Hardcore" when it's been made in the UK throughout the 90s. I acknowledge that people consider the new stuff "UK Hardcore" and if that's what they want to call it, then fine, but it seems rather pointless to me...just sayin'.
I agree with you!
The technical equipment has improved and new sounds were "invented". New influences have had the chance to conquer every single genre that is out there.
I'd love, if someone tries to produce the old, innocent and "childish" sound of the happy 90s. On the other hand, I'd call me a total retard, simply ignoring modern developments of the music.
__________________________________
Ravers unite!
"Happy Hardcore: Love it... hate it... it's fun!" (Matt Stokes)
Alert moderator
|
Karthy
Senior Member
United Kingdom
337 posts
Joined: Jun, 2011
|
Posted - 2011/10/13 : 23:29:15
quote:
Originally posted by warped_candykid:
I still call it Happy Hardcore because it's the same genre, same artists, but just a different sound. Country has evolved, but it's still called Country. Pop music has evovled, but it's still called pop. It's pointless to call it "UK Hardcore" when it's been made in the UK throughout the 90s. I acknowledge that people consider the new stuff "UK Hardcore" and if that's what they want to call it, then fine, but it seems rather pointless to me...just sayin'.
Exactly what I'm trying to say :P
As for the blanket term of "Hardcore".. around here Hardcore is death metal or whatever it is, not sure about the proper definition or anything because I'm not into it, but if I mentioned hardcore here they wouldn't think about Happy/UK Hardcore and generally UK Hardcore is a much less popular term than Happy Hardcore. Most people that don't follow the rave scene don't have a clue what UK Hardcore is and aren't particularly interested... mention Happy Hardcore and they have a more positive response.
I strongly believe defining the genre as UK Hardcore is kind of counter productive, considering there isn't all that much difference in the structure or feelings it gives, it's just the power that differentiates the 2 and Happy Hardcore would most likely get the genre alot more attention but at the same time wouldn't cause many people to rant about it not being happy hardcore...
Alert moderator
|
Archefluxx
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,112 posts
Joined: Sep, 2011
|
Posted - 2011/10/14 : 06:10:52
The question to answer all questions.
The change came about around the millennia when Hardcore was forced to suddenly adapt to the ever changing world.
I consider my own music UK Hardcore, but I recognise that some of it is not, because Im often collaborate with people overseas. When I refer to my music, I sometimes have to describe it as "Happy Hardcore". While I understand that warped candy kid has a good analogy, I think tha hardcores change was a much more rapid one, and the renaissance was a turning point and the change was sudden. It was a reformed genre. While a country can evolve, its name will change. Hense why the USSR is now just Russia, or when Jay had his vagina surgury he became a ladyman, rather than just man, and so on. Things change, some more suddenly than others, embrace it, or be the one left behind. Hi Smoogie!
__________________________________
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0KDPkzp05mZsdmkykMqFCt?si=AT5PvWuLTU-jUMEMWuB-PQ SC: http://soundcloud.com/archefluxx YT: http://www.youtube.com/user/afbofficial
Alert moderator
Edited by - Archefluxx on 2011/10/14 06:20:26 |
Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
|
Posted - 2011/10/14 : 13:18:24
The key is in the name.
Alert moderator
|
Wilky
Banned
United Kingdom
6,198 posts
Joined: Mar, 2008
|
Posted - 2011/10/14 : 13:55:28
UK hardcore just sounds sooooo shit, especially when have producers in Australia, USA, Japan and all over the world makin this UK hardcore stuff... its just happy hardcore or hardcore time to drop the UK bit... it even just call it hardcore dance as u get hardcore rock too...
__________________________________
R.I.P ush.net
http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/wilky
This post was made by Spunk Licker
who is currently on your ignore list .
Display this post.
Alert moderator
|
Smoogie
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,480 posts
Joined: Mar, 2006
|
 Posted - 2011/10/14 : 22:08:19
Happy Hardcore was an off shoot the the Old Skool breakbeat sounds. You had 'Jungle' the dark heavey breakbeat sounds from 91 onwards, then you had the 'hands in air' piano tunes with the vocals and the feel good feel. You had the organ rifts and the 'Belgium Infulence'. The two styles where subdevided to Jungle & Happy Hardcore around 93/94 but infact as late as 95 there was still the same style being played out. Think DJ Vibes, Dougal Slipmatt ect
Bouncy Techno came from Scotland and had very little breakbeat and used the harder more Gabber like kicks but with the English sounding organs but less cheesy pianos and vocals, big around 93-96 & labels like Evolution being amoungst the big names. Later (96 onwards) Evo stuff sounded more Happier though but then other Scottish artists went for the darker Gabber.
Bouncy Techno was also big in The Netherlands and they invnted their own style off labels like Dwarf and Babyboom around 94. Then the big guys at Rotterdam such as Paul Elstak started making happier tunes with the English breakbeats but the more Eurodance style lyrics along with hard kicks, cathcy rifts and the organs. Pengo label from 95-97 was amoungst the biggest names of the times. Dutch Happy Hardcore was huge around 1994-1997 but then died out in favor of more darker Trance orinated Gabber and then there was 'Nu Style Gabber'
In 1995 English Happy Hardcore went along the Dutch & Scottish lines with harder kicks along side of the familier breakbeats and organs and pianos. Vocals became more common. Arund 1997 there was a Trance offshoot 'Trancecore which was soon taking over by 1999 which most Happy tunes started being Tranceore orinated. Trancecore broke off into 'Freeform' in 1999 and evolved throughout the 2000s neglecting the happy infulences but often mantaing the breakbeats and harder kicks. Some more Old Skool infulences where used in some tracks sometimes being refered to as 'Bouncy Freeform'
Around 1996 the 'devide' between English & Scottish Hardcore broke down so there was just 'UK Hardcore' to compare to other Hardcore elsewhere. UK Hardcore for the mid and late 90s was a mixture of Happy Hardcore & Trancecore.
In the early 2000s the Happy tag was dropped. Infact they still made Happy Hardcore but it was mostly Trance driven less pianos and not as 'silly' and started to see more ties to the commercial dance of the day. Old classics where being remade into dance tunes (Flip & Fill where behind alot of this) and the new Hardcore was now being more of a faster version of commercial dance. The Raverbaby label being the biggest such label along with New Essential Platinum, Quosh & Scott Brown's Evolution. That was only really happening in the UK so UK Hardcore compared to the Dutch Hardcore that was Nu Style Gabber however you where getting UK sounding tunes else where such as Australia & The States so they where be known as 'US Hardcore' or Auscore. Japan had their own version 'Jcore'
So UK Hardcore was the 'Mainstream' style of the UK while Freeform, also a UK style had broke off from the mainstream would also find popularity else where (such as FinRG)
The Bonkers style was nearly always UK Hardcore starting off with mostly English but some Scottish (and in the very early days Dutch Hardcore) but as it evolved it coverd all styles of UK Hardcore, both the mainstrem 'Upfront Hardcore' (raverbaby, Quosh, Evo ect) & Freeform (Sharkey, Marc Smith, Kevin Energy ect) and Scott Brown would also include some Gabber being either his own (UK Gabber?) along with Dutch & maybe German, Italian who continued the Gabber trend.
Happy Hardcore in the 90s was also produced in Germany & Italy in the mid 90s and in The States & Australia into the early 2000s.
__________________________________
.
Alert moderator
|
|
Happy Hardcore vs UK Hardcore?
Printer friendly
