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T O P I C R E V I E W
Si Thompson
The 11th of September 2001.
It was a Tuesday and i had the day off college. I was 17 at the time and just getting stoned in my bedroom having a mix on the decks. I decided to go downstairs to get some food around 12:30pm. The TV had been left on in the front room, and i just saw 'BREAKING' across the bottom of the screen, and the twin towers were on fire. A report was coming in about planes flying into the World Trade Center. I couldn't believe what i was hearing/seeing.
I can't imagine what the people went through on that day. I'll never forget!
The drunken scotsman
A day that everyone remembers exactly what they were doing and when. I was 15 and was at college that day as I was doing a course on media studies at the time. Fag break came around at 2pm and when we got back to class, the tv was on and showing the scenes from New York. I remember thinking it was part of the coursework, like a film or something, and didnt realise until about 30 minutes later that it was a real life story. Met up with mates later that night and it was obviously the only topic of conversation that night.
We live in a crazy ****ed up world but that has to be the one incident that tops it all in my lifetime so far. Not buying into these crazy conspiracy theories about it though.
Si Thompson
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
A day that everyone remembers exactly what they were doing and when. I was 15 and was at college that day as I was doing a course on media studies at the time. Fag break came around at 2pm and when we got back to class, the tv was on and showing the scenes from New York. I remember thinking it was part of the coursework, like a film or something, and didnt realise until about 30 minutes later that it was a real life story. Met up with mates later that night and it was obviously the only topic of conversation that night.
We live in a crazy ****ed up world but that has to be the one incident that tops it all in my lifetime so far. Not buying into these crazy conspiracy theories about it though.
Yeah. This has to be the craziest thing i have ever seen. As far as conspiracy theories go, I'm open minded about it. There's stuff that doesn't add up, that's for sure.
The drunken scotsman
No, you?re right but I was more referring to the ones that claim the buildings were rigged, the government knew about it etc etc. Some of them are outrageous.
The official story likely does have a few omissions and untruths in it and im sure there were mistakes in the lead up that, if avoided, could have prevented it, but I dont for one second believe it was an inside job or anything like that. It was a bunch of Islamic terrorists who took advantage of poor regulations on airline security at the time. Conspiracies were always going to be rife for such a catastrophic event regardless of the circumstances. Most of them dont stand up to scrutiny.
Si Thompson
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
No, you?re right but I was more referring to the ones that claim the buildings were rigged, the government knew about it etc etc. Some of them are outrageous.
The official story likely does have a few omissions and untruths in it and im sure there were mistakes in the lead up that, if avoided, could have prevented it, but I dont for one second believe it was an inside job or anything like that. It was a bunch of Islamic terrorists who took advantage of poor regulations on airline security at the time. Conspiracies were always going to be rife for such a catastrophic event regardless of the circumstances. Most of them dont stand up to scrutiny.
Neither of us know what happened, nor probably ever will. I reserve judgement on this.
The drunken scotsman
It depends what you mean by what happened. Imo what is indisputable is that planes were hijacked by Islamic terrorists and crashed into buildings causing them to crash down. As I said conspiracy theories go hand in hand with major world events like this. It is impossible that the general public will ever know all of the details leading up to that day or the aftermath but even if we did, people would still create their own interpretation of them. It?s not really worth going into it in much more detail as its all conjecture at the end of the day.
Si Thompson
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
It depends what you mean by what happened. Imo what is indisputable is that planes were hijacked by Islamic terrorists and crashed into buildings causing them to crash down. As I said conspiracy theories go hand in hand with major world events like this. It is impossible that the general public will ever know all of the details leading up to that day or the aftermath but even if we did, people would still create their own interpretation of them. It?s not really worth going into it in much more detail as its all conjecture at the end of the day.
Yeah. I think there's loads the general public will never know. Probably best we don't.
LeVzi
Most horrific, surreal thing i've ever seen. I watched it all day. I hope I never see anything along those lines again.
There were people rejoicing, in the UK, and that makes me sick to my stomach. I won't go into detail as i'm sure it would trigger some snowflakes here.
As for conspiracy theories, I don't want to believe a government would be capable of doing that to it's own, but there are questions I cannot fathom, like how the BBC were reporting building three had collapsed yet it was still standing behind the reporter. That just doesn't make any sense.
Samination
I can't remember much really. Other than when I came back home, my mother switched over to a Swedish (or Danish, can't remember) news channel that quietly showed scenes from a suburb (presumable the plane that was highjacked to crash into pentagon), that later switched over to the Twin towers, where one of the building was on fire. We didn't know what was happening until we saw a plane coming into view and, as we trough of the time, was flying behind the other building, but then we saw how the plane didnt appear on the other side and smoke and rubble came the other side instead.
Smoogie
I was 14. The first week back at school was being delayed do to building work. I was bored so I turned the TV and there was talk of a plane hitting a skyscraper in New York. They actually thought that it was an accident until the second plane could be seen on screen heading towards the second building and causing the explosion. The news reporters where shocked when they realised what had just happened and then knew that an attack had happened.
Then news came in of the Pentagon being hit and another plane in a field. Watching the towers collapse along with building 7 was surreal. It all happened so quickly and the world has never been the same since. 9/11 was the end of the innocence the West had since the post war age
Smoogie
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
There were people rejoicing, in the UK, and that makes me sick to my stomach. I won't go into detail as i'm sure it would trigger some snowflakes here.
I never saw anyone rejoicing in the UK. I know that the Guardian ran a nasty piece on it but they have since backtracked on it. In Britain we have great sympathy
fakka13k
"Conspiracy theory" conjours up images of nutters in tin foil hats, I personally find it boggles the mind that anyone can look at them buildings coming down and not see with their own eyes that it was a controlled demolition, just look at it!
Also.....WTC7 anyone?
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by fakka13k:
"Conspiracy theory" conjours up images of nutters in tin foil hats, I personally find it boggles the mind that anyone can look at them buildings coming down and not see with their own eyes that it was a controlled demolition, just look at it!
Also.....WTC7 anyone?
You are a nutter in a tin foil hat in that case.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by fakka13k:
"Conspiracy theory" conjours up images of nutters in tin foil hats, I personally find it boggles the mind that anyone can look at them buildings coming down and not see with their own eyes that it was a controlled demolition, just look at it!
Also.....WTC7 anyone?
I would not be so sure. I heard a group of Muslims at college mocking the tragedy.
Disgusting behaviour.
Si Thompson
quote:Originally posted by fakka13k:
"Conspiracy theory" conjours up images of nutters in tin foil hats, I personally find it boggles the mind that anyone can look at them buildings coming down and not see with their own eyes that it was a controlled demolition, just look at it!
Also.....WTC7 anyone?
Even structural engineers have commented on how the buildings imploded.
The drunken scotsman
Funnily enough there was a programme on last night which explained the way the towers fell. It was likely the burning aluminium from both planes mixing with water and other substances, thereby causing the explosions that were heard moments before the towers collapsed. I don?t think the official report picked up on that which probably has added weight to the conspiracies. Its all very well that structural engineers have commented about the way the towers fell but we haven?t ever seen anything on this scale involving large buildings burning away with jumbo jets lodged inside them.
An entire demolitions team would have had to have been rigging up wiring and explosives inside some of the busiest office buildings in the US for days if not weeks and no one saw them and queried it? No one who was involved in that small part of it has broken cover in almost 20 years?
That one task would have required the silence of thousands of people. To pull the whole thing off, with a nod to many of the theories, would have required the cooperation of (amongst others) politicians, federal employees, all branches of the military, airport security, air traffic control, aviation engineers......
Why go to all that effort in the first place? Surely 2 planes crashing into the worlds most iconic buildings in a blatant act of terrorism would be enough to get the message across without making the buildings collapse?
djDMS
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Funnily enough there was a programme on last night which explained the way the towers fell. It was likely the burning aluminium from both planes mixing with water and other substances, thereby causing the explosions that were heard moments before the towers collapsed. I don?t think the official report picked up on that which probably has added weight to the conspiracies. Its all very well that structural engineers have commented about the way the towers fell but we haven?t ever seen anything on this scale involving large buildings burning away with jumbo jets lodged inside them.
An entire demolitions team would have had to have been rigging up wiring and explosives inside some of the busiest office buildings in the US for days if not weeks and no one saw them and queried it? No one who was involved in that small part of it has broken cover in almost 20 years?
That one task would have required the silence of thousands of people. To pull the whole thing off, with a nod to many of the theories, would have required the cooperation of (amongst others) politicians, federal employees, all branches of the military, airport security, air traffic control, aviation engineers......
Why go to all that effort in the first place? Surely 2 planes crashing into the worlds most iconic buildings in a blatant act of terrorism would be enough to get the message across without making the buildings collapse?
This. Exactly.
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
There were people rejoicing, in the UK, and that makes me sick to my stomach. I won't go into detail as i'm sure it would trigger some snowflakes here.
I never saw anyone rejoicing in the UK. I know that the Guardian ran a nasty piece on it but they have since backtracked on it. In Britain we have great sympathy
you just said you were 14, so you'd hardly be exposed to that. My mate was working in a factory that day, with men from a certain ethnicity who were happy about it, and showed that. I've since heard stuff myself to that effect.
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Funnily enough there was a programme on last night which explained the way the towers fell. It was likely the burning aluminium from both planes mixing with water and other substances, thereby causing the explosions that were heard moments before the towers collapsed. I don?t think the official report picked up on that which probably has added weight to the conspiracies. Its all very well that structural engineers have commented about the way the towers fell but we haven?t ever seen anything on this scale involving large buildings burning away with jumbo jets lodged inside them.
An entire demolitions team would have had to have been rigging up wiring and explosives inside some of the busiest office buildings in the US for days if not weeks and no one saw them and queried it? No one who was involved in that small part of it has broken cover in almost 20 years?
That one task would have required the silence of thousands of people. To pull the whole thing off, with a nod to many of the theories, would have required the cooperation of (amongst others) politicians, federal employees, all branches of the military, airport security, air traffic control, aviation engineers......
Why go to all that effort in the first place? Surely 2 planes crashing into the worlds most iconic buildings in a blatant act of terrorism would be enough to get the message across without making the buildings collapse?
So why did building 3 collapse ?
Smoogie
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
There were people rejoicing, in the UK, and that makes me sick to my stomach. I won't go into detail as i'm sure it would trigger some snowflakes here.
I never saw anyone rejoicing in the UK. I know that the Guardian ran a nasty piece on it but they have since backtracked on it. In Britain we have great sympathy
you just said you were 14, so you'd hardly be exposed to that. My mate was working in a factory that day, with men from a certain ethnicity who were happy about it, and showed that. I've since heard stuff myself to that effect.
I only heard about what the Garbage said quite a few years later. There was a worrying lot of sneering coming from the left and a 'few others'
The drunken scotsman
Why dont you tell me why you think building 3 collapsed? See my post again. How many professionals with no conscience would have had to be involved in this murderous act?
Ill concede that, on the face of it, it looks suspect but for all of these theories there is a logical explanation which is much more believable than the actions which would have needed to occur for there to be something more sinister at play. In this case, the logical explanation is that it was in the vicinity of 2 of the worlds biggest skyscrapers which happened to crash down. This is far more believable than anything else Ive heard. There is further evidence out there but most people buying into the theories arent interested in looking at it.
Triquatra
I don't think it's that suspcious to be honest. The whole thing wreaks of human incompetence, error and panic.
I do find it pretty funny that people believe that the Bush administration were so wickedly intelligent and clever as to keep something so far-reaching, under wraps, even from wikileaks...and everyone involved, despite being a country so well known for chasing the money/fame, staying utterly, stone cold silent.
or is it more likely that third hand reporting issues that arose on the day were down to incompetence and panic?
Building 3 has a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I guess the entirety of the NIST were someone 'payed off' too, haha.
djDMS
There HAS to be an alternative theory for everything these days.
As soon as it happens -
'False flag'
'Inside job'
'What aren't they telling us'
'If you believe the official line you're a Sheep, government shill etc etc'
Oh bore off!
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Triquatra:
I don't think it's that suspcious to be honest. The whole thing wreaks of human incompetence, error and panic.
I do find it pretty funny that people believe that the Bush administration were so wickedly intelligent and clever as to keep something so far-reaching, under wraps, even from wikileaks...and everyone involved, despite being a country so well known for chasing the money/fame, staying utterly, stone cold silent.
or is it more likely that third hand reporting issues that arose on the day were down to incompetence and panic?
Building 3 has a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I guess the entirety of the NIST were someone 'payed off' too, haha.
Wikileaks has already proven themselves being on Russia/GoP's side anyways
The drunken scotsman
My theory is that Bin Laden was frustrated with the state of the UK Hardcore scene at that point and was simply venting. It seemed to work well as we did see a major resurgence shortly after.
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Why dont you tell me why you think building 3 collapsed? See my post again. How many professionals with no conscience would have had to be involved in this murderous act?
Ill concede that, on the face of it, it looks suspect but for all of these theories there is a logical explanation which is much more believable than the actions which would have needed to occur for there to be something more sinister at play. In this case, the logical explanation is that it was in the vicinity of 2 of the worlds biggest skyscrapers which happened to crash down. This is far more believable than anything else Ive heard. There is further evidence out there but most people buying into the theories arent interested in looking at it.
I don't want to believe that it was an inside job, but look at where building 3 was in comparison to the other two, and it's hard to understand, but hey i'm no structual engineer.
Bottom line is, for me, 2 air planes fresh in the air, full of kerosine, hit 2 buildings, and they eventually collapse, none of which was expected to happen.
Al Queada claimed they organised it. THat's good enough for me.
Si Thompson
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