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T O P I C R E V I E W
rafferty
With all these whingers and moaners saying UK Hardcore has to sound same as it did back in the 2000's Trance era and never ever change on this forum.
I thought I would show you a clip of how well the evolved sound is working. While I wasn't a huge fan of 160-165 bpm initially. It has grown on me. I like the fuzed elements of Hardstyle/EDM/Reverse Bass incorporated into UK Hardcore.
Have been some unbelievable releases on Electric Fox lately.
Anyways here is a load of clips of Darren Styles playing the new sound at an event down under in Melbourne on Instagram. Before covid obviously. The crowd is well up for it and probably one of the biggest crowds UK Hardcore has been played to.
To me it is big F you to all the haters stuck in the past hating on people for doing things fresh and innovative in the scene.
Darren Styles live at Knockout Outdoors Melbourne below.
Wow that was slow, boring trash. That sounds like pure garbage and doesn't work at all.
How about you leave this forum instead of complaining about the people who don't like the same stuff as you?
warped_candykid
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
With all these whingers and moaners saying UK Hardcore has to sound same as it did back in the 2000's Trance era and never ever change on this forum.
I thought I would show you a clip of how well the evolved sound is working. While I wasn't a huge fan of 160-165 bpm initially. It has grown on me. I like the fuzed elements of Hardstyle/EDM/Reverse Bass incorporated into UK Hardcore.
Have been some unbelievable releases on Electric Fox lately.
Anyways here is a load of clips of Darren Styles playing the new sound at an event down under in Melbourne on Instagram. Before covid obviously. The crowd is well up for it and probably one of the biggest crowds UK Hardcore has been played to.
To me it is big F you to all the haters stuck in the past hating on people for doing things fresh and innovative in the scene.
Darren Styles live at Knockout Outdoors Melbourne below.
It's well and fine to like 160 - 165 bpm stuff, I like it. But to label it UK Hardcore, or Happy Hardcore is a different question.
LeVzi
That's the sort of stuff Cally has been playing for years.
It is NOT Hardcore. So its not a slap in the fact to haters, it proves them right.
Samination
How is that any different from Hard House?
There is nothing there that resembled anything I'd ever call Hardcore, even the stuff I hate to called Hardcore!
And to be honest, I dont mind this part, if it was just a mid section or what'd they're called. But when these kind of sections take up 70% or more of a track, and belong closer to 160 than 170? No, that's not Hardcore anymoer
warped_candykid
Electric Fox, OneSeventy, & BionicBear are getting showcased on the ZYX CD Series: Technobase.FM, which is mostly "Hands Up"/Hard Trance/Hardstyle blend, so they're adding "Happy Hardcore" on the CD cover because of these labels, so it's like a double-edged sword: The genre is getting some time to shine outside of HU, BUT the 160-165 tracks are being pushed to crowds as "Happy Hardcore", so that's why it's becoming big.
Samination
Well, based on what I've heard people discuss the Force & Styles interview, the thought of slowing down Hardcore has been going for a long time, longer than UK Hardcore or even Upfront Hardcore existed as genre names
Triquatra
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
That's the sort of stuff Cally has been playing for years.
It is NOT Hardcore. So its not a slap in the fact to haters, it proves them right.
100%
Just grab the Euphoria Hard Dance Awards album from ...2010? Same stuff.
Personally I don't think it's bad, but don't kid yourself that it's in any way 'new'!
DJGouda
quote:Originally posted by warped_candykid:
Electric Fox, OneSeventy, & BionicBear are getting showcased on the ZYX CD Series: Technobase.FM
Very interesting that you mention these compilation albums. I'm from Germany where these compilations are released and for the most part also compiled. Similiar to Happy/UK Hardcore Hands Up music is also considered to be mostly dead. The style was huge during the mid 00s being featured on some of the most commercially successful German compilation albums. This changed when House started to take over. Most big Hands Up producers started also producing House which resulted in a huge decilne in the amount and quality of releases. Sine a few years this series is the only one to survive with a focus on Hands Up music. The series is doing suprisingly in sales for a genre that's been considered dead.
I personally love this series and I do own all entries so far on CD but that's mostly because I'm also a big fan of Hands Up (the albums are full of unreleased on exclusives tracks). The UK Hardcore track selection rarely manages to convince me.
quote:Originally posted by warped_candykid:
[...] which is mostly "Hands Up"/Hard Trance/Hardstyle blend, so they're adding "Happy Hardcore" on the CD cover because of these labels
I think the inclusion of the Happy Hardcore tag on the front cover is fair as Hands Up and Happy Hardcore are pretty much the only two styles featured on these compilations. Hard Trance and Hardstyle tracks are very rare (if any).
Also with the last few entries in the series the trend shows that the amount of Hardcore tracks is constantly increasing. Starting from volume 16 there was usually at least one mix featuring 3-4 hardcore tracks at the end of a mix (out of 75 tracks in total). With the latest few volumes about 20-25% of the featured tracks are UK Hardcore.
If your issue though is with the term Happy Hardcore being used instead of UK Hardcore, I agree. However Happy Hardcore is clearly a term that more people are aware of (remember that these are mostly for the german market), so I get why they're using it.
quote:Originally posted by warped_candykid:
BUT the 160-165 tracks are being pushed to crowds as "Happy Hardcore", so that's why it's becoming big.
Yeah, the "Happy Hardcore" selction deserves a lot to be desired. Most of these tracks are by the same 5 artists or from one of the three big labels that you named. The reason for that is very obvious though. All three discs are mixed by DJs/producers that are home to Hands Up and don't know any of the more underground producers. Also quite a few Hands Up producers have tried their hand on producing UK Hardcore lately (Quickdrop, Ziggy X, Critical Strikez, DJ Gollum, Nick Unique, ...). So these tracks are also obviously more likely to end up on the tracklists.
The bpm the tracks are being played at least varies a lot though. Some prefer to keep the tracks at 160, others however play them at 175.
Vladel
DLMD is actually one of the better 160 bpm tracks in my opinion and i bought it however, it is not stored with my UK hardcore music. It's part of a folder names 160 stuff because it doesn't fit any other classification for me, let alone either UK or Happy Hardcore.
I remember a dougal interview in 1998/1999 on channel 4 where he spoke of changing the music and slowing it down etc so it is an idea that has been kicking around for a long time. Didn't work so well last time.
To Rafferty - Anyways here is a load of clips of Darren Styles playing the new sound at an event down under in Melbourne on Instagram. Before covid obviously. The crowd is well up for it and probably one of the biggest crowds UK Hardcore has been played to.
To me it is big F you to all the haters stuck in the past hating on people for doing things fresh and innovative in the scene.
It's not UK Hardcore.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
With all these whingers and moaners saying UK Hardcore has to sound same as it did back in the 2000's Trance era and never ever change on this forum.
I thought I would show you a clip of how well the evolved sound is working. While I wasn't a huge fan of 160-165 bpm initially. It has grown on me. I like the fuzed elements of Hardstyle/EDM/Reverse Bass incorporated into UK Hardcore.
Have been some unbelievable releases on Electric Fox lately.
Anyways here is a load of clips of Darren Styles playing the new sound at an event down under in Melbourne on Instagram. Before covid obviously. The crowd is well up for it and probably one of the biggest crowds UK Hardcore has been played to.
To me it is big F you to all the haters stuck in the past hating on people for doing things fresh and innovative in the scene.
Darren Styles live at Knockout Outdoors Melbourne below.
It's a super basic downgrade from gabber. Pretty unexciting imo.
I would always take a uk hardcore set over a gabber one, but i'd take either over this crap.
Gazza1712
Darren doesn?t play hardcore anymore, he doesn?t even label what he produces as hardcore either, it?s basically edm and said in that interview he labels it as 160 edm music not hardcore.
Nothing wrong with pitching it up to 170 plus though and playing it with current hardcore tracks
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by Gazza1712:
Darren doesn?t play hardcore anymore, he doesn?t even label what he produces as hardcore either, it?s basically edm and said in that interview he labels it as 160 edm music not hardcore.
Nothing wrong with pitching it up to 170 plus though and playing it with current hardcore tracks
This. Not sure why people are getting so offended by it. Not my thing either but he isnt trying to claim that its hardcore. Styles will always be a legend in my eyes for his back catalogue and the memories but life goes on and hes free to make what he wants.
Samination
I'm not offended that Darren Styles makes the stuff. I'm more offended rafferty keeps calling this the new hardcore, or the direction Hardcore should take.
And if it's like Triq said, it's more of a devolving of hardcore, not evolving.
The drunken scotsman
Is there even such a thing as hardcore these days? Genuine question. I dont even try to keep up with it anymore and was under the impression that most people on this forum were in the same boat and only here because of a love of hardcore in the past.
LeVzi
I genuinely wonder why at this "Meeting" they decided the best course of action was to slow it all down.
It was the crowbarring of the trancey sound (Bang the Future etc) into the scene at the time I guess, but how they arrived at that
There was a winning formula, it filled a club out every single Friday night for many many years and it never stopped until the club stopped.
This was the winning formula, Kinetic never changed, even the slower DJ's like Dougal had to speed up. And even the cheese music sounded better at 175+ Stu Allan , Demand, Mikey B, this formula only ever really made it to the bigger raves in the form of Brisk.
I used to go to Kinetic as often as I could, and I'd go to a local rave called Southern Style Exposure. And when was hanging about with the Kinetic faithful, i'd play Southern tape packs, and they all said the same thing, "Fk thats slow" Same tunes by same DJ's (Apart from Brisk) but played slower. And Southern was popular but it died quicker. I think if they'd speeded things up, and allowed this messy fast as fk style to rule hardcore, the UK Hardcore evolution would have had a bouncy HHC sound and that would have been really interesting.
Pitching shit up and getting messy with it, was the essence of it for me. I always played UK Hardcore at 180+ I play Dutch Hardcore now at similar speeds
Vladel
I still buy the modern hardcore that I still like. It is made easier by the fact the gabber scene also interests me with the re-style and Korsakoff releases.
Triquatra
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
And if it's like Triq said, it's more of a devolving of hardcore, not evolving.
Nah, there's no regression there, just continuation, nothing wrong with that! :)
Archefluxx
Nothing has really changed here. DS charted in the late 00's because the radio versions of his tracks were slowed down.
Our genre is a niche because it's too fast and too frantic for most people's liking.
Having a niche genre that's successful is a bit of a juxtaposition, so it's very hard to maintain.
That said, there has always been a softening of our genre for the masses to enjoy more, and perhaps we need more of it to funnel people toward the less accessible stuff.
AWal
The more I skim over these kind of threads, the more I wonder I'm the last one left playing 160s at a comfy 175 and timestretching 150 Hard Dance tracks with that solid bass lead to my liking.
Alex Threat
quote:Originally posted by AWal:
The more I skim over these kind of threads, the more I wonder I'm the last one left playing 160s at a comfy 175 and timestretching 150 Hard Dance tracks with that solid bass lead to my liking.
I'll play some 160 tracks at 176. I have done one mix of 160 / 165 bpm tracks all played at 168bpm. It actually really works for me and I didn't think I would like the slow style of mixing but the tracks are great
Sulphurik
The Electric Fox releases are being described as "Happy Hard" so could be known as happy hardstyle?
When UK Hardcore re-emerged again in 2002, it was referred to as UK Hardcore and Happy Hardcore was used alot less but Happy Hardcore seems to be used more commonly again?
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by Sulphurik:
The Electric Fox releases are being described as "Happy Hard" so could be known as happy hardstyle?
When UK Hardcore re-emerged again in 2002, it was referred to as UK Hardcore and Happy Hardcore was used alot less but Happy Hardcore seems to be used more commonly again?
Happy Hard UK Style Core.
Anon.
Styles is massively massively overrated, his tracks these days are like hot garbage.
Theres a couple of tracks where he is in collaboration with another artist where the track is good, but his own production is terrible.
Samination
But hasn't that always been one of Styles' problem. He's good at producing/putting together the tracks, but not the actual composition/writing?
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
But hasn't that always been one of Styles' problem. He's good at producing/putting together the tracks, but not the actual composition/writing?
I think it's the other way around. Because I spoke with Force once about a track of theirs, and he said all the musical stuff was Darren, and he was more the engineer.
Styles is a musician, and really needs a good engineer, he's probably learned a lot since the F&Evolution days, working with Force, then Breeze I reckon he had someone engineer his album but he wrote all the tracks.
I'd say he's a better producer than most, but not up to the scott brown standard
Samination
What? I had heard that just like Dougal, Breeze couldn't engineer. it was so long ago now so i dont know where I had heard that...
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
What? I had heard that just like Dougal, Breeze couldn't engineer. it was so long ago now so i dont know where I had heard that...
tbh anyone who produces tracks must have some idea how to engineer, even if Styles wasnt good at it back in the day, Force was, and he'd have learned a lot from that time. Breeze had been writing long before he paired with Styles I think so he must have had a good base, so 2 minds together n all that.
Dougal is a good example. And Vibes tbh, ppl who cannot engineer but can be creative.
9oh9
Styles back in the day was more focused on the music than engineering. I guess over the years he learnt more about the production side of things, which is only natural. Definitely wouldn't say he's overrated; OK his more recent stuff may not be to your taste (or mine), but he's produced some gold standard tracks over the years, and is doing very well with his latest sound.
As for UK Hardcore vs Happy Hardcore, that was originally to draw a distinction between the 1) 90s cheese, 2) The newer/trancier early-00s stuff, and 3) What the rest of the world calls "hardcore" (i.e. gabber). For whatever reason, some artists have decided that happy hardcore is a marketable name again; I guess the younger people going to raves won't have the negative associations with the "uncool" 90s sound?
Samination
I dont think it was the sound per se that made people look down on (happy) hardcore, but the association woth heavier drugs that makes people roll their eyes time someone mentions the genre or says its a "rave" genre.
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by 9oh9:
Styles back in the day was more focused on the music than engineering. I guess over the years he learnt more about the production side of things, which is only natural. Definitely wouldn't say he's overrated; OK his more recent stuff may not be to your taste (or mine), but he's produced some gold standard tracks over the years, and is doing very well with his latest sound.
As for UK Hardcore vs Happy Hardcore, that was originally to draw a distinction between the 1) 90s cheese, 2) The newer/trancier early-00s stuff, and 3) What the rest of the world calls "hardcore" (i.e. gabber). For whatever reason, some artists have decided that happy hardcore is a marketable name again; I guess the younger people going to raves won't have the negative associations with the "uncool" 90s sound?
That couldn't be further from the truth. UK Hardcore was the noughties version of happy hardcore , it had evolved, was it's own thing. No one said it needed to be called that so no one would think it was the same as HHC. In fact, across Europe when they hear UK Hardcore they call it Happy Hardcore. UK Hardcore is it's own thing. It's constantly drawing lines in the sand to segregate genres, that actually damages the scene. Have a giant rave, give each room a different genre, but watch people really enjoy themselves because they have a choice.
9oh9
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
That couldn't be further from the truth. UK Hardcore was the noughties version of happy hardcore , it had evolved, was it's own thing.
No argument there!
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
No one said it needed to be called that so no one would think it was the same as HHC.
Not sure I follow; there was 100% an effort to rebrand away from the name "happy hardcore" in the early 2000s. As you said, the music evolved into something different, therefore needed a new name to distinguish it from the earlier 90s sound?
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
In fact, across Europe when they hear UK Hardcore they call it Happy Hardcore. UK Hardcore is it's own thing. It's constantly drawing lines in the sand to segregate genres, that actually damages the scene. Have a giant rave, give each room a different genre, but watch people really enjoy themselves because they have a choice.
Not suprising; in the early 00s I think the UK scene was pretty much irrelevant in Europe? Aside from a bit of crossover with makina... I can't imagine the "UK hardcore" name caught on.
Samination
I didnt think the UK Hardcore name caught on until 2004 or later. I think it was called Upfront Hardcore until that point
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