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T O P I C R E V I E W
Triquatra
i dont know how many other people get the newsletters/mailers from CLSM.net...but i recived this one a few weeks back and was suprised not to see anybody commenting on it...
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DIZSTRUXSHON 17th BIRTHDAY @ DONCASTERþ
The CLSM live PA along with the rest of the Freeformation room has been cancelled for this Saturday. This was our final CLSM booking in the diary for any PA or DJ work. Of course other gigs may come up in the future. We may do something 'CLSM' in the Autumn as Ned will be around. Thanks to all of your support on the hardcore front, but I am sure you will understand, hardcore is a terrible place to work in and not very enjoyable - most of the people who buy our stuff left for other scenes around 2005!
A rough studio priority list has been drawn up 11 days ago. In that list are the 7 things I currently do in music. Somewhere near the top of that is a new Bassline House act called 'Maximus Baxter' very exciting stuff- I heard they are pretty cool. Also 75 Numbers who are signed to canyoufeelitmedia.com seem to have familiar members. Good news on the store front as we have all the new Darwin, Fracus and Cube::Hard stuff via Hardcore Underground/RFU recordingz.
""""""""""""""""""
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i love clsm :( and never got to see them live ...i hope thats not the last last time they play out.. hense there is a question mark at the end of the topics title
Mortis
Gutted.
EvoDave101
seems to be coming the norm :\
its a shame, CLSM's sound is really something different, i hope its not a full quit from the scene
näkkk
NOES D; one of my favourite acts from day one of listening to hardcore, this sucks :(
Rayovac
And no, I'm not joking. This f*cking sucks.
FingazMc
Damn man, dito on the previous comments really
CLSM kicks ass!
SPOOX
Shame. I've always been a fan of CLSM.
"Hardcore is a terrible place to work in & not very enjoyable"
Who next to leave then???
Triquatra
i dont think there is an official "we are leaving" in there - it looks more like a taking a back seat whilst working on other projects type mailer...
Brian K
wtf?! they did more live pa's? I thought they quit doing those several years ago?
I feel kind of guilty as I didn't listen to them as much as I did when they pressed their stuff to vinyl...
CDJay
If I had to summarise it would be this:
CLSM was involved in HU3, arguably one of the most critically revered albums in recent times, and one done with a hugely limited budget at exceeding personal risk to myself and Fracus. Despite a year of full time work, and literally bankrupting ourselves and putting our cars/houses/lives on the line, not much has changed.
Do you see the HU3 DJs on the big event line-ups? Do you see CLSM playing to decent crowds across the UK reguarly?
Is HU3 even likely to place top three at the HH awards?
No, no, no?
After many years of service, he's formed the opinion that we are better off leaving or hugely reducing activity IE not propping up something that is intent on treading on anyone and anything alternative. This is fair and intellectually justifiable.
We haven't suffered as long, and are collectively stupid enough to persist. It is *our* job to MAKE IT WORTH him doing more material and gigs.
CLSM is a hero. Through and through. Got hardcore on radio 1, huge musical contribution, been honourable and honest to a fault. So don't blame the player, blame the game. This is their fault, and this is our fault.
Every time someone like Fade, CLSM or DNA leaves our scene it is a testament to both the evils inherent to the "establishment" and our collective impotent inactivity. Not to mention the apathy of the modern "enthusiast".
IMO, YMMV.
CDJay
TheOneNOnly
quote:Originally posted by CDJay:
CLSM is a hero. Through and through. Got hardcore on radio 1, huge musical contribution, been honourable and honest to a fault. So don't blame the player, blame the game. This is their fault, and this is our fault.
QFT.
Though I was oddly listening to (2Morrow Is Our) Future (Remix of it) while listening to this.
Jester MC
not up for a ramble, though i have one.
just really disapointed.
Orbit1
jon should do some tech trance and some hardstyle :)
acidfluxxbass
really bad news. i find it strange after the sucess of his album with cotts...
ABET
Im gutted, relly love CLSM.
One of the few people who have always done there own thing.
Lilley
quote:Originally posted by Orbit1:
jon should do some tech trance and some hardstyle :)
yeh thats where the money is. would love for him/you to do good hardtrance, both euphoric and dark
Meathead
quote:Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
really bad news. i find it strange after the sucess of his album with cotts...
I got this email a few weeks ago, only a month since he released his album with Cotts. That did really well didn't it? Wouldn't have expected that he'd pack it in so soon after the sucess, but i guess he has his reasons.
On the flipside some CLSM Tech Trance sounds interesting. What will he be doing regarding the Hardscape?
redwingz
I love CLSM, one of the true greats of hardcore who seem to do it for the love and are not scared to push boundaries.
The 'Bathford Welcomes....' album shows that unlike most mainstream DJs/Producers, they have a personality.
I also heard CLSM on Kraftyradio.....I have never laughed so much in my life.
This type of talent would find success in any genre, I just hope he sticks with hardcore!
Starstruck
This is a big shame. But i don't find it too suprising.
Good luck to CLSM and future productions and work, made a big contribution to the Hardcore scene which won't be forgotten!
xMx
CLSM is what pulled me into hardcore ever since Rita told me to look them up. I was listening to Basshunter at the time, ick. Hah. This is terrible news though. I'm deeply saddened. : ( When I listen to the Maximus Baxter tracks, they're alright, but when I listen to them and how slow they are, and then knowing where it comes from.. I don't know, it doesn't feel right. I think the tracks are even tagged as fidget? Some of the ones he has out now. Yeah, FIDGET. Lame. Anyway, I seriously hope they return with something new in the fall, I can't stand to see them go. Favorite music of all time, for sure.
Wilky
i was talking to jon on facebook a while ago and he was very depressed about it all..
he just doesnt think he can do anything with hardcore at the moment.. he tried something new with hardcape which didnt really take off and doesnt know where to go with hardcore.
dont blame him really a he isnt into clubland like most of us.. the next person will be scott brown.. he isnt really producing much anyway so he's as good as left
Triquatra
into clubland like most of us?
im certainly not and seems like that would be a good question, i find it hard to believe that most people on here are into clubland
Jester MC
quote:dont blame him really a he isnt into clubland like most of us.. the next person will be scott brown.. he isnt really producing much anyway so he's as good as left
oh god dont say that! *Knocks on wood. Scotty LOVES hardcore (not to mention gabber) and he's been doin it a long while....i dunno how well Livewired sold, and yes he's been noticably absent from productions...but if Scotty leaves, its a sign we are well and truly ****ed, if not already
Wilky
quote:Originally posted by Jester MC:
quote:dont blame him really a he isnt into clubland like most of us.. the next person will be scott brown.. he isnt really producing much anyway so he's as good as left
oh god dont say that! *Knocks on wood. Scotty LOVES hardcore (not to mention gabber) and he's been doin it a long while....i dunno how well Livewired sold, and yes he's been noticably absent from productions...but if Scotty leaves, its a sign we are well and truly ****ed, if not already
well we'll just have to wait and see
quote:Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
into clubland like most of us?
im certainly not and seems like that would be a good question, i find it hard to believe that most people on here are into clubland
read it again.. it say's "like most of us" lol
Triquatra
i see what you mean, just worded oddly
Real_Fuckin_Hardcore
ahh i liked CLSM
Watson.
Gutted. That's another one of the producers who wasn't afraid to try something new gone; much like it was with Cube :: Hard.
The quote from him about Hardcore not being enjoyable speaks volumes, about the current state of things, really.
DJ-Intensity
Sad to see him go another very good hardcore producer on his way out of the scene I am absoultely gutted too.
ChrisDale
thats sad to hear, well good to CLSM in future productions.
Samination
I hope this is how he/they really feel. I'd feel gutted if their lying just to sound nice. BE LIKE DJ DNA FFS
EvoDave101
quote:Originally posted by Wilky:
dont blame him really a he isnt into clubland like most of us.. the next person will be scott brown.. he isnt really producing much anyway so he's as good as left
scott brown is here there and everywhere...i personally dont think he has time to produce much anymore
he hasnt even been on any albums in a while
if he retires from dj;ing i think he should defo get back in the studio full time
DJ Fracus
A sad indictment of how little things have changed really, and how by and large, people choose not to bother seeking out good music. Jon Doe's contribution to Hardcore has been immeasureable, and I'm very sad that we weren't able to do more to support someone who, simply put, deserves SO much better than this. Just listen to 'Wastelands (CLSM Remix)' as soon as you've read this post, then go and listen to 'Takes You Higher', then 'Pressure Rush' and so on. Try to comprehend just how much of a loss this is to Hardcore. It actually makes me want to cry.
There's a staggering lack of support shown for people like Jon Doe. He managed to be innovative with almost every Hardcore record he wrote, he managed to push boundaries, to be interesting, to release music that made people like me wish they had more balls EVERYTIME they went into the studio. Thats what puzzles me. Listen to the music, that's what its about! Not what your mates say you should be listening to, or whats easiest to download from <insert one of 10 billion filesharing sites>. If you're into Hardcore, how can you not be into CLSM too? Why would you not want to hear that music live or support that act?
I hope CLSM isn't a name consigned to Hardcore's past, whilst we're still here we will do what we can to support in the future. But HU isn't enough, not nearly enough. When people like JD can no longer emotionally (nevermind financially) justify making Hardcore, you know something is seriously seriously wrong. It just has to change, before we all drown in a sea of fileshared 'Set You Free' bootlegs made on a Fruity Loops crack.
"DJ Rankin' in the mix mother****er, cos there's nobody else left"
Oli G
"Most" peoples almost absolute refusal to seek out new artists and different music is an absolute crime to "Most" of the people who make it, maybe other sub genres of electronic music have people who are more willing to seek out the different and the innovative.
This isn't just Hardcore's problem however, its the same reason why 99% of people (86% of statistics are made up on the spot) are fine and dandy listening to generic radio stations, to a playlist created by businessmen, not by artists and music lovers.
The general public and "Most" people are thoughtless sheep who are almost too scared to seek out something else for fear of it wasting their time, or another stupid excuse.
Massive shame that CLSM will be taking a step back from hardcore, im sure he loves everything he produces, but its so hard to pour time and effort into music when you get no response back, it is a feedback driven thing.
In the words of a great modern poet... "DOH!"
xMx
"Has anybody seen, the staaaate we're in... can anyone believe.. the liiiiies between, has anybody seen, the staaaate we're in, as we all lose our way in the waaastelaaaand."
We should have all just heeded the Chavbots warning to keep away from those CD packs. : |
lozowen
a sad sad day.
Bonkers4Life
Hardcore should be the....no IT IS....the best electronic genre out there.
Djs shouldnt be ditching it....Djs Should be joining it.
I think if all Djs were to play Hardcore, they would be more famous.
just my opinion
acidfluxxbass
quote:Originally posted by Bonkers4Life:
Hardcore should be the....no IT IS....the best electronic genre out there.
Djs shouldnt be ditching it....Djs Should be joining it.
I think if all Djs were to play Hardcore, they would be more famous.
just my opinion
erm...
so you think tiesto would be more famous making hc rather then his cheap trance?
DarrenJ
im still waiting for no barriers to be released :O
anyway this happened a few years ago, they said no more PA.
Warp-9
going back to Scott Brown, i just think the simple reason he aint releasing anything on his label at the moment is that he aint on any compilations whether it be his own CD on a compilation or his material on other djs cds (which for the latter hardly ever happens these days) and thats the best way that he can get the most people to hear his new material. now i reckon until this happens he wont be releasing anything anytime soon so simple get the man on a compilation!
*waits patiently*
the only news i have heard recently regarding listening to any new releases from him is that hes on the list to be one of the guest djs on brisk & fracus's next gen podcast
Jackol
****! Hardcore is falling apart in front of my eyes.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Jackol:
****! Hardcore is falling apart in front of my eyes.
Never heard the chavbots song, but the USHers have been sayign this for years now :P
TBH, I dont know where JD/CLSM wanted to get with Hardscape. So the most natural evolution of Hardcore, is to get back to the more slower Hard Dance music? Well I guess it's quite obvious. From being fast and adrealine pumping happy hardcore, to the more trancier uk hardcore... but then the others went electro, no wonder clsm got pissed off :P
ABET
quote:Originally posted by Bonkers4Life:
Hardcore should be the....no IT IS....the best electronic genre out there.
Djs shouldnt be ditching it....Djs Should be joining it.
I think if all Djs were to play Hardcore, they would be more famous.
just my opinion
Thats possible the most redundant thing I have ever heard and shows a complete lack of understanding for why there is a problem in the first place.
Entity
To say this is a shame is a major understatement.
As already mentioned, production-wise he cannot be accused of being lazy or formulaic. I’ve seen him work a number of times and the things he does are amazing – he is always trying something new and coming up with new techniques for doing stuff and so on. The tunes aren’t too shabby either - I still regard “Roof on fire” as the best tune I’ve ever heard.
It’s not just about his productions. It’s also about the “hidden packages”, Ned’s birthday party being held in a cave at the top of a big hill at night (complete with glowstick goats), the Ned-Chi in the “Chill Tunnel” and the whistle-stop tours (PA’s at the side of a busy dual carriageway, on a school playing field and so on). Who else in hardcore has gone out of their way to do stuff like this?
Oh, and then there’s the small matter of getting hardcore onto Radio 1, but not that that’s important.........
*edit* - And then there's Underground TV.
I know I’ve waffled on a bit, but this is shit. He’s done so much for hardcore and has helped me out no-end over the last few years, so to hear this news is just.... meh. Fracus hit the nail on the head – his contribution has been immeasurable and really deserves so much better than this.
As it says in the email, there may still be gigs and CLSM stuff occurring in the future – and it would be great if, somehow, everything sorts itself out and CLSM return full-time before too long.
Mortis
quote:Originally posted by Jackol:
****! Hardcore is falling apart in front of my eyes.
You've only just noticed?
blatentbeat
a huge shame..but im sure when the scene becomes 'cool' again they will be back
DJ Fracus
Yeah cos Jon Doe was always about photoshoots and clothing sponsorship - never music (!)
redwingz
quote:Originally posted by Oli G:
"Most" peoples almost absolute refusal to seek out new artists and different music is an absolute crime to "Most" of the people who make it, maybe other sub genres of electronic music have people who are more willing to seek out the different and the innovative.
This isn't just Hardcore's problem however, its the same reason why 99% of people (86% of statistics are made up on the spot) are fine and dandy listening to generic radio stations, to a playlist created by businessmen, not by artists and music lovers.
The general public and "Most" people are thoughtless sheep who are almost too scared to seek out something else for fear of it wasting their time, or another stupid excuse.
Massive shame that CLSM will be taking a step back from hardcore, im sure he loves everything he produces, but its so hard to pour time and effort into music when you get no response back, it is a feedback driven thing.
In the words of a great modern poet... "DOH!"
My views exactly!
Jimouk
quote:Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
quote:Originally posted by Bonkers4Life:
Hardcore should be the....no IT IS....the best electronic genre out there.
Djs shouldnt be ditching it....Djs Should be joining it.
I think if all Djs were to play Hardcore, they would be more famous.
just my opinion
erm...
so you think tiesto would be more famous making hc rather then his cheap trance?
Trance isn't cheap by all means. And Tiesto doesn't make Trance, he hasn't done for years.
This is indeed quite sad news, but I'm sure things will pick up again in the future. I hate being so pessimistic about these sorts of things, yes CLSM is awesome I will agree but if he wants to move on thats fine. I still enjoy Hardcore as to thousands of other people. And "stepping back" isn't codeword for never touching the genre again, so the sky isn't falling just yet don't worry.
Meathead
quote:Originally posted by blatentbeat:
a huge shame..but im sure when the scene becomes 'cool' again they will be back
1st - As Fracus said has already pointed out, Jon Doe has never been a cover boy, in it for mopney and photoshoots of him looking off into the middle distance. Fracus was being sarcastic btw. I feel it's important to point that out as, given your reply, you're obviously not capable of working it out for yourself.
2nd - Hardcore is more popular and in the mainstream than it has ever been. It is "cool", depending on your idea of cool obviously. I personally think it's shit but it's at it's highest peak at the minute so if anybody is to latch on and jump on the band-wagon they would be doing so1 now, not leaving.
3rd - Welcome to the forum!
DJ-Intensity
But never rule out a return to the scene.
DJ SCOTT DEVOTION
quote:Originally posted by DJ Fracus:
A sad indictment of how little things have changed really, and how by and large, people choose not to bother seeking out good music. Jon Doe's contribution to Hardcore has been immeasureable, and I'm very sad that we weren't able to do more to support someone who, simply put, deserves SO much better than this. Just listen to 'Wastelands (CLSM Remix)' as soon as you've read this post, then go and listen to 'Takes You Higher', then 'Pressure Rush' and so on. Try to comprehend just how much of a loss this is to Hardcore. It actually makes me want to cry.
There's a staggering lack of support shown for people like Jon Doe. He managed to be innovative with almost every Hardcore record he wrote, he managed to push boundaries, to be interesting, to release music that made people like me wish they had more balls EVERYTIME they went into the studio. Thats what puzzles me. Listen to the music, that's what its about! Not what your mates say you should be listening to, or whats easiest to download from <insert one of 10 billion filesharing sites>. If you're into Hardcore, how can you not be into CLSM too? Why would you not want to hear that music live or support that act?
I hope CLSM isn't a name consigned to Hardcore's past, whilst we're still here we will do what we can to support in the future. But HU isn't enough, not nearly enough. When people like JD can no longer emotionally (nevermind financially) justify making Hardcore, you know something is seriously seriously wrong. It just has to change, before we all drown in a sea of fileshared 'Set You Free' bootlegs made on a Fruity Loops crack.
"DJ Rankin' in the mix mother****er, cos there's nobody else left"
Could not be more spot on!!!!
It's soul destroying watching people leave this scene that are forward thinking and hold PASSION for the music. It seems like a trend now. To me Hardcore has been raped of it's roots and meaning, but we all hold our thoughts on it all.
I hope things dont keep going like this and people feel they need to go off, it's odd that you dont see CLSM at events playing more, (imo) and other talent also get know feature. But then, other acts are playing out all over and you think WHY? Back to front scene!
Ken Masters
quote:Originally posted by Jester MC:
quote:dont blame him really a he isnt into clubland like most of us.. the next person will be scott brown.. he isnt really producing much anyway so he's as good as left
oh god dont say that! *Knocks on wood. Scotty LOVES hardcore (not to mention gabber) and he's been doin it a long while....i dunno how well Livewired sold, and yes he's been noticably absent from productions...but if Scotty leaves, its a sign we are well and truly ****ed, if not already
I can't see Scott Brown leaving the scene. Yeah, hes been quiet but he's gotta hav a few ideas up his sleeve. Scott Brown is Hardcore till he dies but I can see where your coming from. If he does leave it'll just go to show the people that push the boundaries of hardcore aren't getting the rewards & respect they deserve
VERY VERY sad to hear CLSM are taking a step back. wtf is goin on here? All the real players in Hardcore are givin up the game!
"but I am sure you will understand, hardcore is a terrible place to work in and not very enjoyable"
Who are the people this is aimed @? Who are the people that are single-handedly pulling our scene apart just for an extra buck? This is seriously guttin news!
acidfluxxbass
quote:Originally posted by DJ SCOTT DEVOTION:
quote:Originally posted by DJ Fracus:
A sad indictment of how little things have changed really, and how by and large, people choose not to bother seeking out good music. Jon Doe's contribution to Hardcore has been immeasureable, and I'm very sad that we weren't able to do more to support someone who, simply put, deserves SO much better than this. Just listen to 'Wastelands (CLSM Remix)' as soon as you've read this post, then go and listen to 'Takes You Higher', then 'Pressure Rush' and so on. Try to comprehend just how much of a loss this is to Hardcore. It actually makes me want to cry.
There's a staggering lack of support shown for people like Jon Doe. He managed to be innovative with almost every Hardcore record he wrote, he managed to push boundaries, to be interesting, to release music that made people like me wish they had more balls EVERYTIME they went into the studio. Thats what puzzles me. Listen to the music, that's what its about! Not what your mates say you should be listening to, or whats easiest to download from <insert one of 10 billion filesharing sites>. If you're into Hardcore, how can you not be into CLSM too? Why would you not want to hear that music live or support that act?
I hope CLSM isn't a name consigned to Hardcore's past, whilst we're still here we will do what we can to support in the future. But HU isn't enough, not nearly enough. When people like JD can no longer emotionally (nevermind financially) justify making Hardcore, you know something is seriously seriously wrong. It just has to change, before we all drown in a sea of fileshared 'Set You Free' bootlegs made on a Fruity Loops crack.
"DJ Rankin' in the mix mother****er, cos there's nobody else left"
Could not be more spot on!!!!
It's soul destroying watching people leave this scene that are forward thinking and hold PASSION for the music. It seems like a trend now. To me Hardcore has been raped of it's roots and meaning, but we all hold our thoughts on it all.
I hope things dont keep going like this and people feel they need to go off, it's odd that you dont see CLSM at events playing more, (imo) and other talent also get know feature. But then, other acts are playing out all over and you think WHY? Back to front scene!
Both very true comments... CLSM contributed allot of new styles and great songs that weren't heard enough and weren't played enough... CLSM deserves the appearences on major albums, and deserves more attention toward his label...
It hurts when you never know whats gone, til its gone...
treetherealest
I agree with most things said, but I will try to give another view on this situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of these producers make their music from their own personal studios? In that case, it really wouldn't take much money to produce tracks. Just time. I know it would be nice to make a living off of music, but I would like to think some of these hardcore producers just purely enjoy making the music and don't care what happens as long as they don't LOSE money. I personally like having actual CDs and I know it costs money to press them, but if they press the bare minimum I'm sure it would still be rather easy to get rid of those copies and make some profit. I think a problem might be getting too involved with labels and hoping for the next big club hit. ::shrug::
acidfluxxbass
quote:Originally posted by ABET:
quote:Originally posted by Bonkers4Life:
Hardcore should be the....no IT IS....the best electronic genre out there.
Djs shouldnt be ditching it....Djs Should be joining it.
I think if all Djs were to play Hardcore, they would be more famous.
just my opinion
Thats possible the most redundant thing I have ever heard and shows a complete lack of understanding for why there is a problem in the first place.
Meathead
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
I agree with most things said, but I will try to give another view on this situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of these producers make their music from their own personal studios? In that case, it really wouldn't take much money to produce tracks. Just time. I know it would be nice to make a living off of music, but I would like to think some of these hardcore producers just purely enjoy making the music and don't care what happens as long as they don't LOSE money. I personally like having actual CDs and I know it costs money to press them, but if they press the bare minimum I'm sure it would still be rather easy to get rid of those copies and make some profit. I think a problem might be getting too involved with labels and hoping for the next big club hit. ::shrug::
Could you please slap yourself in the face? Only you're all the way in America and i don't have the money to be spending on a flight there and back so i can do it myself. Thank you in advance.
acidfluxxbass
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
I agree with most things said, but I will try to give another view on this situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of these producers make their music from their own personal studios? In that case, it really wouldn't take much money to produce tracks. Just time. I know it would be nice to make a living off of music, but I would like to think some of these hardcore producers just purely enjoy making the music and don't care what happens as long as they don't LOSE money. I personally like having actual CDs and I know it costs money to press them, but if they press the bare minimum I'm sure it would still be rather easy to get rid of those copies and make some profit. I think a problem might be getting too involved with labels and hoping for the next big club hit. ::shrug::
misguided view of the economics within hardcore...
maybe now we can quit the bitching and re-evaluate why people are leaving?
Triquatra
if you cant be bothered to read the proceeding rant, summed up basically it reads
im pretty depressed about this, because they bought klf inspired lunacy and originality to what apparently is a very unappreciative scene who just didnt care - and that really makes me confused as to just where to look for that, because what other scene have CLSM.
<pastes rant from other thread>
this is a mixed up rant, but i have alot on my mind this evening, so if it doenst make sense, tough.
im annoyed - because in my opinion its a catch 22 situation, they had quirky fun klf style inspired ideas for a scene that has been, or has turned unappreciative and clearly been bloated out with chavs and skinheads who will label any throwaway trash "a bangin track"
who couldnt apperciate the lunacy of Ned-Chi or the meetups/Chill Tunnel and of course it doesnt stop there.. NedEx, Hardscape (would love to know why a hardscape clsm show was declined on di.fm/happyhardcore.com radio as im sure that didnt help matters), Ned's home movies..
whilst having to contend with massive companys throwing out whatever "safe" music they can get their money greased hands on, music that has taken a dive, from producers taking short cuts and producing songs that a pieced together from presets and samples and throwing out tunes that have no real love in them whatsoever. i dont want to make this about companys though - beause i feel its not as much about them as the people the scene is attracting now.
Chill Tunnel, Church of Ned, NedEx and all it entailed, Ned, CLSM, Bathford, Quirky Humour, MCing to Sheep, giving out vinyl, exploring Ned's world...friends.
see this is what the scene should be..
this is how its supposed to be
where the hell is the cult of CLSM - thats where it should be right now
people should be donning Ned-style masks and marching to the highest point of the moors just for the sake of it - Rites of Mu style.
ive had a shitty holiday, and ive eaten too much which isnt helping matters.
its grim up north.
*edit*
i want to start an uprising now.
Meathead
Dammit Rowan i was just about to go to sleep when i read your rant. I agree with it 100%. Especially the bit about the Hardscape show being declined on di.fm/happyhardcore.com radio, seriously what the ****?
Agreed the companies and producers aren't entirely at fault, as i said in the other thread. It's us.
Uprisings may just be in order, i'll get my dreadlocks and we'll do this thing!
Rayovac
Darn it Meathead... I had typed up a long reply, and then you basically just summed it up there in three sentences!
But yes, Triquatra summed it up quite well.
From an MSN conversation:
"(6:01:11 PM) Chris: Most hardcore 'listeners' these days are just flat-out brainless chavs, born and raised to be social-welfare leeches. And guess what: they don't give a flying flip about the quality of any electronica music. Do a half-assed remix of Set You Free in your pirated copy of Acid Pro, post it on a popular hardcore forum/Youtube, and all you'll get is "Put that on a white label 12" and send it to the clubs!""
And yet it's a wonder how most hardcore music has manifested itself into shit over the past years.
acidfluxxbass
quote:Originally posted by Rayovac:
Darn it Meathead... I had typed up a long reply, and then you basically just summed it up there in three sentences!
But yes, Triquatra summed it up quite well.
From an MSN conversation:
"(6:01:11 PM) Chris: Most hardcore 'listeners' these days are just flat-out brainless chavs, born and raised to be social-welfare leeches. And guess what: they don't give a flying flip about the quality of any electronica music. Do a half-assed remix of Set You Free in your pirated copy of Acid Pro, post it on a popular hardcore forum/Youtube, and all you'll get is "Put that on a white label 12" and send it to the clubs!""
And yet it's a wonder how most hardcore music has manifested itself into shit over the past years.
thats another good point.
very little was really keeping it alive apart from the masses of chavs who dont really understand it. thats the difference between AATW and, say rebuilt records... chavs...
xMx
What if someone aired a show on the radio featuring CLSM tracks and related stuff. Y'know, Hardscape and stuff.. I don't know, it sounds like a good idea?
Triquatra
i would hope its not too late to backtrack
but i would say it looks like damage has already been done..
acidfluxxbass
quote:Originally posted by xMx:
What if someone aired a show on the radio featuring CLSM tracks and related stuff. Y'know, Hardscape and stuff.. I don't know, it sounds like a good idea?
lolwut?
you can't walk onto radio 1 and just simply play a discography of clsm XD
xMx
I mean, blah. Nevermind.
Well, what needs to be done then?
What can anyone do?
Is it possible to spark a renaissance?
acidfluxxbass
quote:Originally posted by xMx:
I mean, blah. Nevermind.
Well, what needs to be done then?
What can anyone do?
Is it possible to spark a renaissance?
yeah its possible. one skilled somebody's got to create something people like that it unique and totally different from convention hardcore..
tbh I dont think by any stretch that hardcore will do this needed movement... in 1999-2000, when the music became more trancey and less vocal based, the first transition into what we listen to today, the scene collapsed with few ravers and even fewer producers (hixxy, breeze, dougal, sy, s.brown etc) but eventually it picked up and built into how we know it today.. point is, would anyone today risk that, again?
despite us believing hardcore to be dying, its still quite fruitful... Hu3 was apparently a sucess, and AAtw are leeching what they can with their stuff (much re-released), so why would people change anything? aatw wouldn't if they're doing well... It'll just take someone to make a good sound that'll become popular enough to turn into a subgenre and take its own route to becoming the next hardcore..
else, if hardcore stys the same, it'll only a certain amount of time until people lose ideas. hopefully the progression into something new will be natural (and soon)
Entity
quote:Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
quote:Originally posted by xMx:
What if someone aired a show on the radio featuring CLSM tracks and related stuff. Y'know, Hardscape and stuff.. I don't know, it sounds like a good idea?
lolwut?
you can't walk onto radio 1 and just simply play a discography of clsm XD
That would be cool... Having said that, Kutski did a CLSM mix only a few weeks ago
treetherealest
quote:Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
I agree with most things said, but I will try to give another view on this situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of these producers make their music from their own personal studios? In that case, it really wouldn't take much money to produce tracks. Just time. I know it would be nice to make a living off of music, but I would like to think some of these hardcore producers just purely enjoy making the music and don't care what happens as long as they don't LOSE money. I personally like having actual CDs and I know it costs money to press them, but if they press the bare minimum I'm sure it would still be rather easy to get rid of those copies and make some profit. I think a problem might be getting too involved with labels and hoping for the next big club hit. ::shrug::
misguided view of the economics within hardcore...
maybe now we can quit the bitching and re-evaluate why people are leaving?
I said I agreed with what was said, but was trying to give another viewpoint. I can see both arguements as being right. You and Meathead didn't really explain your responses, except I guess I'm just too "stupid" to understand the economics of hardcore. Could one of you guys give a detailed answer why that point of view is so WRONG? I've been involved in independent music for quite a while and it doesn't seem that complicated. Could one of you guys please explain your response?
djDMS
When i saw the words 'Doncaster', 'Dizstruxshon' and 'Freeform' in the same sentence i knew there would be a problem.
It's criminal what's STILL happening in Hardcore.
Meathead
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
quote:Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
I agree with most things said, but I will try to give another view on this situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of these producers make their music from their own personal studios? In that case, it really wouldn't take much money to produce tracks. Just time. I know it would be nice to make a living off of music, but I would like to think some of these hardcore producers just purely enjoy making the music and don't care what happens as long as they don't LOSE money. I personally like having actual CDs and I know it costs money to press them, but if they press the bare minimum I'm sure it would still be rather easy to get rid of those copies and make some profit. I think a problem might be getting too involved with labels and hoping for the next big club hit. ::shrug::
misguided view of the economics within hardcore...
maybe now we can quit the bitching and re-evaluate why people are leaving?
I said I agreed with what was said, but was trying to give another viewpoint. I can see both arguements as being right. You and Meathead didn't really explain your responses, except I guess I'm just too "stupid" to understand the economics of hardcore. Could one of you guys give a detailed answer why that point of view is so WRONG? I've been involved in independent music for quite a while and it doesn't seem that complicated. Could one of you guys please explain your response?
Not too stupid, just naive. It's not as simple as you think. It costs a lot of; money, time, commintment and plenty of kicks to the balls (depending on which side you take Commercial or Underground). You do not understand the economics of Hardcore, the ins and outs of the industry, nor do i, but it's not quite as simple as you think.
djbood
jon will be a huge miss but am sure this isn't the last we will see of him hardcore wise...its in his blood!
I dont think blaming 'chavs' is right either. Every style of music evolves and it looks like Jon has decided to do something different in this moment of time, there isnt anything wrong with that, just a shame we will be hearing less from him hardcore wise. Imo all styles of hardcore are amazing and all provide different vibes from clubland to the more progressive sound of clsm's stuff.
Looking forward to all future hardcore albums to come and lets hope clsm and scott brown are amongst there which i'm sure they will be! :)
treetherealest
quote:Originally posted by Meathead:
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
quote:Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
I agree with most things said, but I will try to give another view on this situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of these producers make their music from their own personal studios? In that case, it really wouldn't take much money to produce tracks. Just time. I know it would be nice to make a living off of music, but I would like to think some of these hardcore producers just purely enjoy making the music and don't care what happens as long as they don't LOSE money. I personally like having actual CDs and I know it costs money to press them, but if they press the bare minimum I'm sure it would still be rather easy to get rid of those copies and make some profit. I think a problem might be getting too involved with labels and hoping for the next big club hit. ::shrug::
misguided view of the economics within hardcore...
maybe now we can quit the bitching and re-evaluate why people are leaving?
I said I agreed with what was said, but was trying to give another viewpoint. I can see both arguements as being right. You and Meathead didn't really explain your responses, except I guess I'm just too "stupid" to understand the economics of hardcore. Could one of you guys give a detailed answer why that point of view is so WRONG? I've been involved in independent music for quite a while and it doesn't seem that complicated. Could one of you guys please explain your response?
Not too stupid, just naive. It's not as simple as you think. It costs a lot of; money, time, commintment and plenty of kicks to the balls (depending on which side you take Commercial or Underground). You do not understand the economics of Hardcore, the ins and outs of the industry, nor do i, but it's not quite as simple as you think.
Well, I know the "industry" is a pretty tough place. However, why be a part of of it? I remember hearing something about music being compared to bottled water. Why do we need labels to bottle up our hardcore for us, when we can go to the river and get it ourselves without their help? It sounds like the politics of the industry are what is killing hardcore, so maybe it should remove itself from it. I know for you guys over in the U.K. that hardcore is not just music, it can also be an experience. Going out to clubs and hearing it and feeling it, but over here in the U.S. it's extremely rare to find any place that plays hardcore, so I'm just used to just loving the music.
Meathead
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
Well, I know the "industry" is a pretty tough place. However, why be a part of of it?
That's basically the point of this thread and what CLSM is doing.
quote:Originally posted by treetherealest:
It sounds like the politics of the industry are what is killing hardcore, so maybe it should remove itself from it.
Correct! You now have a clearer understanding of what Hardcore has become.
djbood
too much negativity in these forums, take some of the unbelievable atmosphere from the hardcore raves n boast about it man!!! clsm wud want it this way haha
Leroy
I've browsed these pages for a couple of years now, but this thread has finally convinced me to join.
I first became interested in hardcore when I saw Dougal in Australia about 3.5 yrs ago. I had no comprehension of hardcore before this and was blown away at the speed and the general euphoria associated with it. Before too long, I'd researched the scene enough to know where it came from, who the major players were, and had started buying the odd compilation to support those players.
Herein lies the problem, though... those players (when hardcore was arguably at its best, 2002-2006) largely consisted of the Dougals, Scott Browns, Hixxys, Brisks and Sharkeys. Fast forward to now and (with the exception of Sharkey) all those big names are now pumping out formulaic tune after tune - offbeat bass stabs with female vocals. It seems they have been doing it for so long, that they ran out of ideas and turned to pop music to make their money...
Meathead is correct when he says hardcore is as popular as it ever way - but thats because the tunes have all become that formula I just mentioned. How many hardcore remixes of September's "Cry for you" were released? A disturbing amount. Did any of you see Hixxy's disc on the new Bonkers... how lazy.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of hardcore producers are not musically trained, and as such, stuck for so long to mimicking the big guys. The old guys have been there for so long now, they have a monopoly on the market - anything else will always be viewed as imitation crap.
Furthermore, the labels are aware of this - hence why the old guys all still have record contracts. The few that have dared to buck this trend (our beloved CLSM, for instance) have nowhere to go...
... (@ treetherealest)... which is why it is not worth it for independent producers to continue. Why bother making music at the expense of a higher paying full time job, when the only thing that may remotely pay the bills is fighting the old boys club to make more of the crap in the current scene?
treetherealest
quote:Originally posted by Leroy:
... (@ treetherealest)... which is why it is not worth it for independent producers to continue. Why bother making music at the expense of a higher paying full time job, when the only thing that may remotely pay the bills is fighting the old boys club to make more of the crap in the current scene?
I think everything you said is on point. However, some people make music NOT to pay the bills, but because they enjoy making music. It would be a PLUS to pay the bills with music, but for some people it's just in their blood. Even if it isn't their major source of income, they will still continue to make music on their own terms.
Leroy
Agreed to a small extent.... But as someone that is involved in independent music creation, you surely must understand just HOW MUCH time and effort must be spent making a decent track. Try looking at it like this:
Since I got into hardcore, CLSM has had at least 1 track on each bonkers compilation since X. That averages roughly at about 1 or 2 tracks every 6 months. That doesn't seem a lot at first.... but how many tracks did he(they) have to produce before the DJ mixing the album actually selected one of those tracks? For every track that makes an album there has to be at least 10 that don't.
Now assuming, as you say, he does it for the love of it and has a 9-5 job that pays the bills for him. That doesn't leave an awful lot of time to be writing and polishing music... Maybe he might get 1 track finished off every 2 - 4 weeks....
... and this is the problem: what if he does not have enough tracks that DJs want to spin? What if he is now only gonna get 1 track out to the public every 1-2 years?
All those late nights and weekends holed away in his room just for 1 track to have an insignificant impact on the occasional compilation album? It is simply not worth spending that amount of time to make music that no-one will ever hear... and even more demoralising when the crap we hear today is being chosen for albums over labours of love like that from CLSM.
Meathead
quote:Originally posted by Leroy:
... and this is the problem: what if he does not have enough tracks that DJs want to spin? What if he is now only gonna get 1 track out to the public every 1-2 years?
Do you even know anything about CLSM? Everything he produces is ****ing gold and he releases (did release) a fair few tracks, more than 1 a year.
Leroy
LOL - I'm not arguing with you on the quality, and of course I don't know how many he gets out (the numbers were for the sake of example)...
...but no artist EVER successfully publishes EVERYTHING they create.
marcand
This is a shame. I was excited to see them on iTunes this year, and now this. It's too bad, but I will be reloading my iPod with their best stuff in honor of their great work!
Thanks for the music and the memories!
glitzandglowz
In protest, I refuse to believe that CLSM is over.
Triquatra
they arent - as i said in the first post
glitzandglowz
Oh good :)
latininxtc
damn i just found about this and it's so sad!
but i'm glad to see that no 1 has had anything negative to say on such a great man and great producer, unless i've overlooked it but still
he will be greatly missed on this end and hope that he does return sooner than later
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Fracus hit the nail on the head – his contribution has been immeasurable and really deserves so much better than this.
