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T O P I C R E V I E W
Gaz mace-E 1988
Firstly, a warm hello to you all! As this is my first post, apologies if there is a welcome section within this forum as I could not find one. Now that the hello Is out of the way, may I proceed to my question. Back story, when I was a kid, I grew up listening to happy hardcore (must of been said countless times I guess) to the likes of Slipmat, vibes, midas etc etc. I followed hardcore like a religion back then. Then came the millennium, when I was in high school (I'm now 27) with albums such as universal hardcore were out, and in my personal opinion was the pinnacle of hardcore was out, around 2000-2006. At which point I aquired my first set of decks which were vestax pdt 5000's with a Gemini mixer, where my vinyl collection grew to a, at the time, satisfactory collection, which I also started producing tracks too (available on my sound cloud), but, sadly responsibilitys took over and left the hardcore scene behind. And with it, producing and djing. I've had my fare share of raves (not performed at btw) including westfest and more recently totally lost it events at bowlers in Manchester, but by this point I hard started collecting and mixing the more trippy (and oldschool/piano) side of dance taking inspiration from the likes of Carl cox F.A.C.
T mixes and techno trance. When I recently tried to return to the scene having bought "clubland x-tremendous hardcore 8", I was mortified to find that every track took on a commercial, electro, dubstep type style which which made me rather sad, and, as a result, stopped listening to the scene full stop.To know a scene I loved and believed in and was involved in had turned out in such a way. I don't know if this is just my opinion or one shared by many, perhaps (or rather knowingly) that clubland x treme is a bad example and obviously and hopefully not a representative of all current hardcore. The magic I felt seemed as it it had gone, and we were left with this commercial joke left from what was once a scene I used to feel proud to be part of. What I wonder now tho is, what is the scene currently like? Has it moved past this stage or are we still in this electro/dubstep sounding stage, as I'm at a time in my life where I'd love to bring back my many feelings, emotions, and love, that I had for hardcore. Any replies appreciated, as I miss the glory days, where hardcore was my life.
latininxtc
Your biggest mistake is thinking that CXH8 is an adequate representation of the current scene, even the scene at the time it was released. It isn't. There's far more variety out there than whatever came from that album. You should consider getting some of the Hardcore Underground volume albums. You can pick up Hardcore Underground 3, 6 and 7 on this site:
Also pick up Happy Hardcore Underground. It has more happier 90s hardcore influences in most, if not all of the tracks.
You can pick up HU Presents 2013 as well for a "bargain" price of 3 quid. Although depending on who you ask, some might say even that's too much to pay for that album lol
Vladel
There is a lot of great emotional and magical hardcore around, you just have to look forward to it and hardcore underground is the road to most of it.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
There is a lot of great emotional and magical hardcore around, you just have to look forward to it and hardcore underground is the road to most of it.
*ignore what I said, I competly forgot to check user names :( Sorry Gaz*
Hard2Get
No it's not just you. Hardcore has been unlistenable to me (with the exception of hand full of tracks which are good but still not in the same way as older stuff) for many years now. In the space of 15 years most genres of evolved beyond recognition and this is also true for Hardcore.
Smoogie
Welcome to the forums!
I don't even follow Hardcore anymore, not the recent stuff anyway and haven't since 2007 when I got sick to death of the same old, same old Trancy Raverbaby stuff getting ripped on every other label.
The only new stuff I heard is Old Skool sounding stuff, Casket Crusherbeing a good example who makes excellent tunes!
I also make my own tunes now and enjoy it, but I do it for myself but it gives me something to listen to.
But it seems that the 'Electro/ Dubstep' stuff is just another ploy into the commercial side of things just like the Trance side of things 10 years ago.
Gaz mace-E 1988
Thanks Smoogie :) do you host your tracks anywhere?
Yeah its pretty much how I feel on the whole subject, the last track I actually liked probably was in 2008 with Hixxy vs dougal & gammer - phaze 2 phaze which I think was on the Raverbaby label? Also I didn't think at the time of writing that, to were I thought the pinnacle of hardcore was for me, it may of even peaked far earlier for others etc. I mean, how hardcore evolved from the mid 90s to let's say, 2004, I actually liked the way it was evolving and the direction it was heading, but sadly things changed :(. I'll check this HU out too.
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Origianally posted by Vladel:
There is a lot of great emotional and magical hardcore around, you just have to look forward to it and hardcore underground is the road to most of it.
*ignore what I said, I competly forgot to check user names :( Sorry Gaz*
Haha its cool man! :)
CDJay
I can't really recommend starting with Happy Hardcore Underground enough
CDJay
warped_candykid
quote:Originally posted by CDJay:
I can't really recommend starting with Happy Hardcore Underground enough
CDJay
Is there going to be a Vol.2????
Vladel
There better be! I want a fracus & Darwin heart of gold remix
latininxtc
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
There better be! I want a fracus & Darwin heart of gold remix
Ugh I'd rather not. I'm sick to death of Heart of Gold.
But it might be doable. Although I was thinking it could a real challenge considering how hard it was for Jon to try and make Darwin's ToyTown remix happen on the first edition, which unfortunately backfired. But looking at the tracklist, a Harmony and Apollo 13 remix, both F&S tracks, did make the cut, but only on the mixes. The same would be for a Heart of Gold remix I'm sure.
Vladel
yeah i don't think there have been that many remixes of heart of gold since the nineties, there's the hixxy remix on Bonkers 9 and the crappy breeze and styles one later on but i reckon Fracus & darwin could smash it it the tune gets the same treatment here i am got.
Cyrax
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
There better be! I want a fracus & Darwin heart of gold remix
Ugh I'd rather not. I'm sick to death of Heart of Gold.
I know exactly what you mean, it's like hearing Sweet Harmony for the billionth time!
shades316
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
There better be! I want a fracus & Darwin heart of gold remix
^^ I like the sound of that. True to the original but with a new twist.
shades316
quote:Originally posted by Mortis:
^^ I like the sound of that. True to the original but with a new twist.
Yeah me too. More of a remake than a remix... along the same lines as the F&D mix of Hear I Am and Al Storm's mix of Have It All which featured on HHU.
I assume its done by F&D?? Would be good to hear a better quality clip. :)
Does anyone know if the sets from Sound Wave were recorded?
DJ_FunDaBounce
Would love to hear/have a clean version of that one! Definitely a remake yet even the kick sounds updated.
Awesome! :)
warped_candykid
I wish they could hack into those old Dutch/German tunes like...
And
And
Samination
Don't show that TAke me to the moon track to S3rl, he'll just remix it to hell and back :P
Vladel
quote:Originally posted by shades316:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
There better be! I want a fracus & Darwin heart of gold remix
I like they kept the original vocals by Jenna and didn't use the Kelly Llorenna ones from the '98 Remix :)
arpz
Hope it can get cleared for release!
rafferty
Hate to say it but I think I have to disagree. All that has happened to hardcore is it has become alot more versatile.
2005-2010 alot UK Hardcore was all sounding the same and I became very discouraged with the lack of creativity. Every track was Trancey sounding and cheesy as fark. Even freeform went to shit. Where it was alot more creadible back when it was TranceCore in the late 90s.
Now you have producers with so many influences. From Hardstyle to Dubstep to EDM House and Drum n Bass.
There are still producers making the old sound that you guys like too. Just look at the Australian djs. They all seem to be about 10 years behind what we are doing in the UK and the US with Hardcore productions.
Australian djs like Haze, Weaver and JTS all still seem to make the dated Trancey Hardcore.
Vladel
perhaps they just don't like the edm inspired stuff
rafferty
Not sure what the reason is. Maybe they don't know how to as the new edm Hardcore productions are more intelligent and technical to produce.
All I know is everytime I hear a Weaver, Haze or Jts tune it sounds like what Breeze and Styles were doing over ten years ago and so dated.
Chris Unknown, Alex Prospect, Klubfiller, Darren Styles, Mark Breeze, Macks Wolf, Fracus & Darwin, Recon, Iyf & Nobody are all pushing the boundaries with Hardstyle and Edm influences.
Samination
what bounderies are they actually pushing? other than our nerves that is :P
Vladel
I'm sorry but mark breeze hasn't been near hardcore for a long time and Chris unknown has been working to ruin the memory of all the good music he ever made with sy.
Rodz90
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Maybe they don't know how to as the new edm Hardcore productions are more intelligent and technical to produce.
More intelligent to produce.....
What in the world are you even saying mate? lol
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Hate to say it but I think I have to disagree. All that has happened to hardcore is it has become alot more versatile.
2005-2010 alot UK Hardcore was all sounding the same and I became very discouraged with the lack of creativity. Every track was Trancey sounding and cheesy as fark. Even freeform went to shit. Where it was alot more creadible back when it was TranceCore in the late 90s.
Now you have producers with so many influences. From Hardstyle to Dubstep to EDM House and Drum n Bass.
There are still producers making the old sound that you guys like too. Just look at the Australian djs. They all seem to be about 10 years behind what we are doing in the UK and the US with Hardcore productions.
Australian djs like Haze, Weaver and JTS all still seem to make the dated Trancey Hardcore.
Weaver's been doing some good stuff lately. But what you call dated, I call superior. :P
Anyway, round here hardcore peaked in popularity in 2007 when it was good. Nobody gives a shit about it now because it's bad. I haven't heard a hardcore track at a house party since 2010 when it was still pretty good.
brodster
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Not sure what the reason is. Maybe they don't know how to as the new edm Hardcore productions are more intelligent and technical to produce.
Do you make music? If you did you would know that the new "edm hardcore" takes no more skill than the "outdated trance hardcore" does to produce. If anything the new stuff is simpler than the older stuff.
Vladel
quote:Originally posted by brodster:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Not sure what the reason is. Maybe they don't know how to as the new edm Hardcore productions are more intelligent and technical to produce.
Do you make music? If you did you would know that the new "edm hardcore" takes no more skill than the "outdated trance hardcore" does to produce. If anything the new stuff is simpler than the older stuff.
Yeah the new stuff must be easier to make if you aren't actually trying to make it sound good
djDMS
1. You're wrong
2. You might want to a bit less patronising.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
1. You're wrong
2. You might want to a bit less patronising.
I can't tell who you're replying to but if it's Brodster, I suggest you check out his music. From a technical standpoint, the guy absolutely slays it (listen to the engineering quality on Citylights for example). I trust his opinion on the matter. For my part, I've never tried to make a "modern hardcore" track because I hate that style but I really don't see how it would be any more difficult than the traditional supersaw-driven stuff. The leads are a lot weaker on the newer tracks anyway so I assume a lot less work goes into layering.
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by brodster:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Not sure what the reason is. Maybe they don't know how to as the new edm Hardcore productions are more intelligent and technical to produce.
Do you make music? If you did you would know that the new "edm hardcore" takes no more skill than the "outdated trance hardcore" does to produce. If anything the new stuff is simpler than the older stuff.
No that is wrong. EDM has far more technical basslines, sample kicks and riffs than your standard UK Trancey Hardcore of the 2000s.
Making a Trancey Hardcore Track is simple as.
- Standard Kick and bassline
- Standard Simple Trancey tune
- Standard Breakdown
Now how is that technical lol???
One of the reasons UK Hardcore went down hill so fast was the lack of imagination and creativity. Everyone sounded the same.
If you want to make Hardcore that has been done a million times before that is fine. Just don't expect to go anywhere lol
All the new producers that are rising to the top fast are the ones trying new things and have their own sound and not trying to emulate stale boring dated sounds like 2000s Trance on speed at 170bpm.
Samination
... As soon as you've made a bassline, it becomes a template for reuse. Then it becomes a standard aswell. I don't know much about production either, but i have seen how it's made atleast...
brodster
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by brodster:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Not sure what the reason is. Maybe they don't know how to as the new edm Hardcore productions are more intelligent and technical to produce.
Do you make music? If you did you would know that the new "edm hardcore" takes no more skill than the "outdated trance hardcore" does to produce. If anything the new stuff is simpler than the older stuff.
No that is wrong. EDM has far more technical basslines, sample kicks and riffs than your standard UK Trancey Hardcore of the 2000s.
Making a Trancey Hardcore Track is simple as.
- Standard Kick and bassline
- Standard Simple Trancey tune
- Standard Breakdown
Now how is that technical lol???
One of the reasons UK Hardcore went down hill so fast was the lack of imagination and creativity. Everyone sounded the same.
If you want to make Hardcore that has been done a million times before that is fine. Just don't expect to go anywhere lol
All the new producers that are rising to the top fast are the ones trying new things and have their own sound and not trying to emulate stale boring dated sounds like 2000s Trance on speed at 170bpm.
You cite JTS and Weaver as examples of dated production. Sure they may use trancey riffs still but they use very similar kicks and basslines to the stuff guys like Gammer and Styles are making now. If they wanted to they for sure could make stuff similar to Gammer and Styles, but they don't because they prefer the trance style. I agree things get old when they are done a lot but it is only a matter of time before the edm starts sounding old (one can argue it already does). We shouldn't focus so much about what is new and old but about what sounds good and having a diverse range of sounds to choose from is better than having one sound and it getting old. It's a good thing that guys like Gammer and Styles are making fresh edm inspired hardcore just like it is a good thing that guys like Weaver and Technikore are making older style trancy hardcore albeit with more modern sounding kicks and basses. Diversity is what makes hardcore a fun genre.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by brodster:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Not sure what the reason is. Maybe they don't know how to as the new edm Hardcore productions are more intelligent and technical to produce.
Do you make music? If you did you would know that the new "edm hardcore" takes no more skill than the "outdated trance hardcore" does to produce. If anything the new stuff is simpler than the older stuff.
No that is wrong. EDM has far more technical basslines, sample kicks and riffs than your standard UK Trancey Hardcore of the 2000s.
Making a Trancey Hardcore Track is simple as.
- Standard Kick and bassline
- Standard Simple Trancey tune
- Standard Breakdown
Now how is that technical lol???
One of the reasons UK Hardcore went down hill so fast was the lack of imagination and creativity. Everyone sounded the same.
If you want to make Hardcore that has been done a million times before that is fine. Just don't expect to go anywhere lol
All the new producers that are rising to the top fast are the ones trying new things and have their own sound and not trying to emulate stale boring dated sounds like 2000s Trance on speed at 170bpm.
You're arguing with someone who has actually produced both styles to a high standard about which one is harder to make.
Seems kinda futile to me.
brodster
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
Yeah the new stuff must be easier to make if you aren't actually trying to make it sound good
When I say "Simpler" I do not mean easier to make. Bigroom/Melbcore is simpler and generally less melodic than "Trancey-core". What I mean to say is the new stuff is really no different than the old stuff. The same production philosophies are still applied they are just using different sounds for the new stuff.
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
You're arguing with someone who has actually produced both styles to a high standard about which one is harder to make.
Seems kinda futile to me.
Lol I appreciate that Elliot, but you don't need to defend me so much. I'm not an amazing producer. I just think it makes no sense to say that one style of music is objectively better than another style.
djDMS
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
1. You're wrong
2. You might want to a bit less patronising.
I can't tell who you're replying to but if it's Brodster, I suggest you check out his music. From a technical standpoint, the guy absolutely slays it (listen to the engineering quality on Citylights for example). I trust his opinion on the matter. For my part, I've never tried to make a "modern hardcore" track because I hate that style but I really don't see how it would be any more difficult than the traditional supersaw-driven stuff. The leads are a lot weaker on the newer tracks anyway so I assume a lot less work goes into layering.
My mistake, thought I'd quoted Rafferty.
I'm all for 'progress'. But if that progress means just grabbing whatever is popular at the time then it can't be can it?
And for the record, I don't want Hardcore to sound like it did 10 or 20 years ago, I want it to have it's own identity like it did in the beginning. I've played recent Hardcore to people and the reaction was unanimous- 'oh, that just sounds like....'
Vladel
Well when I listen to the edm stuff I don't think "wow this must have been really hard to make," I'm thinking more like "this sounds shit, if I had the talent, I'd make something better"
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
1. You're wrong
2. You might want to a bit less patronising.
I can't tell who you're replying to but if it's Brodster, I suggest you check out his music. From a technical standpoint, the guy absolutely slays it (listen to the engineering quality on Citylights for example). I trust his opinion on the matter. For my part, I've never tried to make a "modern hardcore" track because I hate that style but I really don't see how it would be any more difficult than the traditional supersaw-driven stuff. The leads are a lot weaker on the newer tracks anyway so I assume a lot less work goes into layering.
My mistake, thought I'd quoted Rafferty.
I'm all for 'progress'. But if that progress means just grabbing whatever is popular at the time then it can't be can it?
And for the record, I don't want Hardcore to sound like it did 10 or 20 years ago, I want it to have it's own identity like it did in the beginning. I've played recent Hardcore to people and the reaction was unanimous- 'oh, that just sounds like....'
Yeah, that does make more sense. I agree completely.
I immediately feel the need to defend trancey hardcore from attack. That *is* UK hardcore to me. If people ever stop producing the trancey '07 style stuff, I'm gone. Diversity is a very good thing. I know a lot of people who really liked that old sound. Those same people can't relate to the new style of hardcore at all. Or, as you said, they just consider it a rip-off of <insert big name EDM producer>. There will always be room in hardcore for the 00s sounds and that's the way it should be. Is anyone seriously going to sit there and say that the big room inspired stuff has more variation than '07 era hardcore?
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by brodster:
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
Yeah the new stuff must be easier to make if you aren't actually trying to make it sound good
When I say "Simpler" I do not mean easier to make. Bigroom/Melbcore is simpler and generally less melodic than "Trancey-core". What I mean to say is the new stuff is really no different than the old stuff. The same production philosophies are still applied they are just using different sounds for the new stuff.
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
You're arguing with someone who has actually produced both styles to a high standard about which one is harder to make.
Seems kinda futile to me.
Lol I appreciate that Elliot, but you don't need to defend me so much. I'm not an amazing producer. I just think it makes no sense to say that one style of music is objectively better than another style.
Your tracks are very well engineered. If I ever achieve the same standard, I'll be happy. It's unlikely though because my ears suck!
You should post mixing advice :)
brodster
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
Your tracks are very well engineered. If I ever achieve the same standard, I'll be happy. It's unlikely though because my ears suck!
You should post mixing advice :)
I am flattered haha. My tracks aren't even that well engineered to be honest. I just copy what other people do and try to do it myself. The only mixing advice I can really give is to use high quality samples and sounds and to compare your tracks to other people's tracks so you can try to match how they are mixed. It's not that your ears are bad or that I have better ears than you. You can achieve the same results I can you just have to practice and train your ears on what to listen for :)
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
1. You're wrong
2. You might want to a bit less patronising.
I can't tell who you're replying to but if it's Brodster, I suggest you check out his music. From a technical standpoint, the guy absolutely slays it (listen to the engineering quality on Citylights for example). I trust his opinion on the matter. For my part, I've never tried to make a "modern hardcore" track because I hate that style but I really don't see how it would be any more difficult than the traditional supersaw-driven stuff. The leads are a lot weaker on the newer tracks anyway so I assume a lot less work goes into layering.
My mistake, thought I'd quoted Rafferty.
I'm all for 'progress'. But if that progress means just grabbing whatever is popular at the time then it can't be can it?
And for the record, I don't want Hardcore to sound like it did 10 or 20 years ago, I want it to have it's own identity like it did in the beginning. I've played recent Hardcore to people and the reaction was unanimous- 'oh, that just sounds like....'
I agree with you that Hardcore should have it's own identity. I think it always will to be honest.
As for hardcore following whats popular. Hardcore did that very thing in 2000 when it was named UK Hardcore.
In 2000 Trance was as big as EDM is now and everyone jumped on the popular Trance bandwagen. Hixxy even said I remember in an interview that all the Raver Baby producers at the time were heavily influenced by Trance producers.
So many of the tracks out were Trance ripp offs too. Nothing Hardcore about them. Just faster with a heavier kick.
So I really don't get why people don't like Hardcore getting influences from Edm and House music again. Hardcore pretty much started with House and Techno music influences and now your complaining about it going to it's roots in a newer better produced form.
Music has to evolve guys. Hardstyle even has evolved. It is probably one of the biggest genres around since they starting using Distorted Kicks.
That very evolution from Hard Trance to Hardstyle is what has put the genre on the map and respected.
I am certain if UK Hardcore evolves it will get alot bigger. Hardstyle kicks are becoming really poplular in Hardcore as well as edm House riffs.
Vladel
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
1. You're wrong
2. You might want to a bit less patronising.
I can't tell who you're replying to but if it's Brodster, I suggest you check out his music. From a technical standpoint, the guy absolutely slays it (listen to the engineering quality on Citylights for example). I trust his opinion on the matter. For my part, I've never tried to make a "modern hardcore" track because I hate that style but I really don't see how it would be any more difficult than the traditional supersaw-driven stuff. The leads are a lot weaker on the newer tracks anyway so I assume a lot less work goes into layering.
My mistake, thought I'd quoted Rafferty.
I'm all for 'progress'. But if that progress means just grabbing whatever is popular at the time then it can't be can it?
And for the record, I don't want Hardcore to sound like it did 10 or 20 years ago, I want it to have it's own identity like it did in the beginning. I've played recent Hardcore to people and the reaction was unanimous- 'oh, that just sounds like....'
I agree with you that Hardcore should have it's own identity. I think it always will to be honest.
As for hardcore following whats popular. Hardcore did that very thing in 2000 when it was named UK Hardcore.
In 2000 Trance was as big as EDM is now and everyone jumped on the popular Trance bandwagen. Hixxy even said I remember in an interview that all the Raver Baby producers at the time were heavily influenced by Trance producers.
So many of the tracks out were Trance ripp offs too. Nothing Hardcore about them. Just faster with a heavier kick.
So I really don't get why people don't like Hardcore getting influences from Edm and House music again. Hardcore pretty much started with House and Techno music influences and now your complaining about it going to it's roots in a newer better produced form.
Music has to evolve guys. Hardstyle even has evolved. It is probably one of the biggest genres around since they starting using Distorted Kicks.
That very evolution from Hard Trance to Hardstyle is what has put the genre on the map and respected.
I am certain if UK Hardcore evolves it will get alot bigger. Hardstyle kicks are becoming really poplular in Hardcore as well as edm House riffs.
The difference being the trance influenced stuff was good and the edm stuff is not
Elipton
Production these days is hilariously easy. You don't need anything more than the software and a pair of headphones. Production techniques and styles of music are infinitely more complex, but that's because the simplicity of production has allowed more to be done. You can have one section of a track, and constantly refine it with new layers or finer detail. That doesn't necessarily make the music more popular or better. Martin Garrix is one of the biggest flukes in music history for Animals.
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but in Hardcore the music has become simple. Sure the actual sounds are actually far nicer than previously, but VST's and software makes it a lot easier to get a cleaner output. Ironically, the music seemed more interesting and sounded better to most people when studio's were more primitive and certain techniques were harder to do - if not, impossible. Perhaps producers now have found a good balance between having a quick turnover of music and having it still be popular. Virtually all of the money in Hardcore is made from events now, so why spend so much time on tracks, eh?
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
No that is wrong. EDM has far more technical basslines, sample kicks and riffs than your standard UK Trancey Hardcore of the 2000s.
Making a Trancey Hardcore Track is simple as.
- Standard Kick and bassline
- Standard Simple Trancey tune
- Standard Breakdown
Now how is that technical lol???
You're making a lot of sweeping assumptions based on what? EDM envelopes hundreds of genre's and most of them do the same stuff with sampling. You talk about standard kicks and basslines, breakdowns and all that crap, but in House or Future Bass, each of their elements are 'standard' in their own respect. You will find the odd producer in each doing things completely differently, but you have that in Hardcore if you look hard enough.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Elipton:
Martin Garrix is one of the biggest flukes in music history for Animals.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
The funny thing is that if I'd wrote that track, I'd have thrown it away. Guess I don't understand what people like.
Samination
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by Elipton:
Martin Garrix is one of the biggest flukes in music history for Animals.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
The funny thing is that if I'd wrote that track, I'd have thrown it away. Guess I don't understand what people like.
One guy's trash is another guy's treasure?
Elipton
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by Elipton:
Martin Garrix is one of the biggest flukes in music history for Animals.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
The funny thing is that if I'd wrote that track, I'd have thrown it away. Guess I don't understand what people like.
One guy's trash is another guy's treasure?
Can't dispute that people like it. It topped a lot of charts, but it was a one-off miracle track. There have been many tracks like Animals and they've faded into obscurity. The style of music and the talent needed to make it is unremarkable, but it was the perfect track for that moment and Garrix became a house-hold name. Stranger things have happened when the planets are aligned..
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by Vladel:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
1. You're wrong
2. You might want to a bit less patronising.
I can't tell who you're replying to but if it's Brodster, I suggest you check out his music. From a technical standpoint, the guy absolutely slays it (listen to the engineering quality on Citylights for example). I trust his opinion on the matter. For my part, I've never tried to make a "modern hardcore" track because I hate that style but I really don't see how it would be any more difficult than the traditional supersaw-driven stuff. The leads are a lot weaker on the newer tracks anyway so I assume a lot less work goes into layering.
My mistake, thought I'd quoted Rafferty.
I'm all for 'progress'. But if that progress means just grabbing whatever is popular at the time then it can't be can it?
And for the record, I don't want Hardcore to sound like it did 10 or 20 years ago, I want it to have it's own identity like it did in the beginning. I've played recent Hardcore to people and the reaction was unanimous- 'oh, that just sounds like....'
I agree with you that Hardcore should have it's own identity. I think it always will to be honest.
As for hardcore following whats popular. Hardcore did that very thing in 2000 when it was named UK Hardcore.
In 2000 Trance was as big as EDM is now and everyone jumped on the popular Trance bandwagen. Hixxy even said I remember in an interview that all the Raver Baby producers at the time were heavily influenced by Trance producers.
So many of the tracks out were Trance ripp offs too. Nothing Hardcore about them. Just faster with a heavier kick.
So I really don't get why people don't like Hardcore getting influences from Edm and House music again. Hardcore pretty much started with House and Techno music influences and now your complaining about it going to it's roots in a newer better produced form.
Music has to evolve guys. Hardstyle even has evolved. It is probably one of the biggest genres around since they starting using Distorted Kicks.
That very evolution from Hard Trance to Hardstyle is what has put the genre on the map and respected.
I am certain if UK Hardcore evolves it will get alot bigger. Hardstyle kicks are becoming really poplular in Hardcore as well as edm House riffs.
The difference being the trance influenced stuff was good and the edm stuff is not
That sounds like an opinion from someone stuck in the past. There is a reason Tiesto ditched Trance. He saw that Trance had run it's course and there are newer less formulated sounds in the Edm scene.
You may think the Trance sound from over decade ago is better, but 90% of the next generation of ravers prefer EDM, Trap and Hardstyle influences.
Music will keep moving forward whether you guys like it or not.
If everyone in the scene though like you it would still be 1988 and all acid house and no evolution.
Why hold back progress of better more exciting produced music? There is more variety in Hardcore than there has been in years. Plenty of experimentation and fresh style productions. Which will only be healthy for the scene and keep the younger punters going to raves.
Samination
why hold back "innovation"? Well I dont know, I think Heavy Metal have done extremily well since Ozzy Ozborne helped introduce it in the 70's, without changing too much.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
why hold back "innovation"? Well I dont know, I think Heavy Metal have done extremily well since Ozzy Ozborne helped introduce it in the 70's, without changing too much.
Purists would argue that it has changed completely.
What's so great about innovation anyway? I still hate typing on a touchscreen as much as I did when those phones were introduced.
Quicksilver
I like both styles as much, to me the important bits are the melodies, drive and bass in the songs. I produce the old style but try to have a few influences from the newer style. I just make and listen to what I love, basically. Sometimes, however, I wish the new style was a bit "harder". I know, UK Hardcore was never really hard to begin with (in comparison to Gabber) but it's gotten way softer lately.
One particular style or trend that I absolutely dislike is the minimal drops. Now, if that had taken over I probably wouldn't be listening to hardcore anymore. I mean tracks that have awesome breakdowns and build-ups with melodies and synths and drum roll aaaaaaaand then just drops to the DJ intro with kick and bass, then layering some fart sounds and percussion.
CDJay
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
why hold back "innovation"? Well I dont know, I think Heavy Metal have done extremily well since Ozzy Ozborne helped introduce it in the 70's, without changing too much.
Purists would argue that it has changed completely.
What's so great about innovation anyway? I still hate typing on a touchscreen as much as I did when those phones were introduced.
Completely with you., but at all levels of the scene balance appears to be being slowly restored. Being dubby, trappy, EDMey, for the sake of it appears to have taken a back seat to actually integrating modern sounds into a genre without necessarily strapping an inverted dildo in a mask onto it and hoping it can survive on its own stomach contents.
There's hope.
This has happened before, circa 2001. Embrace it, and we might yet get another triumphant range of years.
CDJay
Laser
I'm fairly young, 21, been listening to hardcore for a while and I live in the states.
From what I'm seeing, hardcore is breaking molds it's been stuck in for years. I'm hearing A LOT of big room, drumstep, and whatnot and it's absolutely brilliant. some of it falls flat but not everything is gonna be a banger.
Music will always evolve and change, man that's just a fact. No genre ever stays the same. But appreciate how far it's come and how it's captivating more audiences now more than ever before thanks to the internet! :D
But yeah I'll agree I'm so in love with early 2000's hardcore. Classic is as classic was.
Doc Mcfly
Any fellow Scott Brown fans? (Well his older stuff anyway) I really love his tracks Blue Anthem and Definition Of A Bad Boy. I want more in the style of those two tracks so bad. Elysium is definitely a classic. I enjoy it but not us much as the other two I mentioned. I've heard his other tracks from the mid 2000's and they're ok but the two I mentioned above are the best in my opinion.
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