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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| dj switchback |
Just heard reports that the company Resist , which does the Bonkers and Hardcore Heaven albums have went bust. (again , after react done so in 04)
Sad day like. :( |
| SixFeet |
OH NOEZ!!1 TEH BONKAHZ!!!1 (Except for Sharkey's CD) |
| dj switchback |
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
OH NOEZ!!1 TEH BONKAHZ!!!1 (Except for Sharkey's CD)
I have no idea what your trying to say , but it's not gonna be the end of Bonkers. The company did go bust a few years ago , and look.
Companies come and go heh , no doubt Bonkers/HH etc etc will move to a new company , or if something takes Resists place.
No indication of Hardcore though , again must just be bad business.
|
| Dj Satsky |
Bonkers CDs will still be there. |
| Ghetto_smurf420 |
What Are These Peoples Problems Runnin There Businesses Into The Ground :'( |
| Jay-Owen |
Bonkers will live on! :D HH can go die though :( |
| Dj Satsky |
Can't believe it 3 years on and know Resist has gone as well. |
| nightfire |
resist was react, but got new money to keep going, but that didnt work either!!!! |
| TypeR |
Bonkers cd's will still get made, and they still won't be available in the states through stateside distro.
Wanna know why alot of us in the states don't care? Because it's not available to us anyway. |
| Leto |
^^What about Sharkey's artist CD? Hopefully that won't get delayed too much more. |
| TypeR |
You may not have been around for his first Artist cd, it took forever too. However it was good to hear once it came. |
| Orbit1 |
man, this is 100% bad news.
First Amato, then Resist, sorry guys. Its the end. |
| The Doc |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
man, this is 100% bad news.
First Amato, then Resist, sorry guys. Its the end.
its the end of what? December has Clubland, Mos and Gut with major releases which will sell tons of albums! all full of commercial shite! but still hardcore, so as these albums get bigger others fall away! bonkers 17 is by far the best relaese for ages but didn't sell well, think we all have a choice in hardcores future at the mo! but in the end nobody wins! It dies again and 90% of young people here now will never be into the music when it starts again!
|
| Orbit1 |
I was being deliberately vague. |
| The Doc |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
I was being deliberately vague.
but it also has truth!
|
| TypeR |
Once upon a time Alphamagic died, and in my mind seperated the men from the boys as far as how hard labels were going to try to keep afloat. The truly hardcore survived and weeded out the garbage. Distro has died again and hopefully it will have the same effect. There is far too much garbage feeder labels out there that put out crap music, now they won't get distro so they will fade away into shitty musical history while the truly good labels that saved their pennies and worked hard to maintain will still be able to provide.
I say good riddance.
Now people will have to work again to be producers. |
| Orbit1 |
But the problem is Bobby is that it probably won't happen again.
The more commercial guys, they're ok. They have money. But what about the smaller and more innovative labels where every unit of vinyl counts?
Its not going to weed out anything? It will mean that more people are going to try and more more commerical and less innovative music to try and tell more.
What labels are pumping out garbage right now? Maybe the tiny digital labels where it doesn't cost them a thing to put mp3s up, but as far as I know most of anything coming out is actually decent.
If anything, its going to sift out those that are more more marketable and more commercial from the underground and make that rift even bigger. The underground sound getting less and less sales and probably dropping off, the more commercial remixing pop tunes, not really innovating and then the whole thing going stale.
I hope it doesn't happen, but it will probably go that way.
:( |
| Ghetto_smurf420 |
Ok Ive Been On The Resist Site And It Says Nothing .... Are We Maybe Not Getting Ahead Of Ourselves A Little Bit....? |
| Orbit1 |
or perhaps the site is well behind. Its also very very early saturday morning.
Probably won't hear anything official until monday. |
| Jimmygoat |
Some of you are complete twats when it comes to using your brains (actually its probably a lack of understanding, but thats the outcome... i am only addressing the retard who's name i cant be bothered to agknowledge- it would be wrong!)- I think one of the hardest hit has been next generation in the last week or so. Thye pressed their own records and released 2 a month without fail where quite a few other labels either didnt have so much caught in the pipeline OR were pressed by amato and therefore didnt lose their money (just wont get the profits).
Resist going bust hurts the smaller artists who were relying on those payouts.
This has hit most hardcore producers hard... what needs to be done now is some serious thinking about the value of our tunes and why sales dropped off- where is the income for producers...
Its not in vinyl.
Its no longer in compilations (not much left for MOST people as tracklists are heavily owned by the djs mixing)- surely cd packs have to stop now as producers cant afford to give their music away??
Also, its worth pointing out clearly, that its not due to overwhelming high sales that these things are happening despite the popularity or hardcore. Sadly, i think it wont filter through to all the people buying cd packs and downloading music/ sharing that these are knock on consequences.. Rarrr.. |
| Orbit1 |
Agree with you 100% jimmygoat.
The thing that confuses me the most is exactly that, hardcore is getting more and more popular, but sales are at an all time low!
No real income for produces on the black crack, or on the digital, and the smaller peeps will be locked out of albums! what do we do? |
| Jimmygoat |
a few other genres have got over the file sharing thing to some extent- house music for example has a healthy amount of downloads, the younger generation dont understand quite as much the importance of not just taking things for free. The house music crowd are a bit older, one of my friends releasing soulful house music does over 600 downloads on one store alone and just under that on another store- the run of the mill equivelent hardcore download does less than 60.
However, i think anyboy thinking they can change that attitude is facing a losing battle! A good example would be to type in a hardcore artist such as darren styles on youtube and you get a picture of extreme euphoria cover and somebody has taken the time to upload the tune- do the same for my house music friends label and it doesnt need the so called promotion (its not there) or subliminal records etc. Its just an age/ culture thing- the kids dont realise how self destructive they are and the cd pack producers are happy to take the money! |
| Samination |
Could that be the reason why raverbaby only keeps selling HTID cd/tape packs than rather releasing singles?
Some of you people know that I fileshare (should you all know that? :P), and I wont try to defend myself by saying that I do not hurt Hardcore, but I dont think it's that much. Ofcourse, going digital also means it will be easier for the twats (I wont say me, as I actually buy Hardcore in most formats, and don't download.. or buy the stuff I don't want) to get the tracks.
And trying to put some kind of copy-protection on the files are just the same as ripping a vinyl.
So in the end, filesharing will always be there.
I want labels to atleast do more CD Singles, but if distrubitors keep getting bust... It may never happen I guess, but will it open up for digital sales? I hope so, and if it means I have to stop fielsharing, I'd be glad to (atleast when it comes to CD and digital) |
| Jimmygoat |
but if you multiply up all the people you share to (lets pretend its only 3) then all of them do a few more each and so on- the one file you sent out is 30- oops- in the vinyl days that was 30 sales. You are just one of many who dont understand, so pointless just punching you in the head, but it would make a start. |
| Orbit1 |
fact is, its just gotten to the stage where sales are so bad in hardcore that *every* unit counts.
Producers need every penny just to survive. As far as I'm away CD singles just don't work either.
I'll be honest with everyone here, as much as I love my hardcore (and I do love my hardcore) I'm gonna be forced to direct the majority of my effort and attention elsewhere.
I'm sure loads of other producers are going to be the same too.
Really crap news :( |
| Samination |
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmygoat:
but if you multiply up all the people you share to (lets pretend its only 3) then all of them do a few more each and so on- the one file you sent out is 30- oops- in the vinyl days that was 30 sales. You are just one of many who dont understand, so pointless just punching you in the head, but it would make a start.
Atleast I'm not denying it am I?
I got into hardcore throu filesharing, and if I had never fileshared, I would propably still not know what Hardcore was. I actually had both Off Yer Nut!! 1 and 2 before I i started to download Hardcore, but I disliked them |
| TypeR |
I dont understand how my opinion makes me a twat. You see, since there isn't any distro in the states then how am I supposed to feel about it? We can't go to the record store and buy hardcore records. We can't go buy Bonkers 136 or any of those cd's. When we do order something, it takes weeks or months to get here and once it does it has gotten cained by everyone on the planet by then.
Hardcore dj's and producers that know me personally know that I make every attempt to purchase tunes or records from them personally so that the money goes to them directly into their bank account, so needless to say most of the time I don't have to rely on record stores and such. If they can't press vinyl, then guess what? I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever paying the same price for a download from them. If they said that the download were to cost the same as a vinyl, I would gladly pay that price because it gets them the hard earned cash that they deserve.
So before you go on calling me a twat, why don't you go ask the producers that I pay directly for their music how much money they've gotten from me personally. You see, some of these guys I would consider friends of mine and I wish no harm to come to them financially, so instead of paying Nuenergy.co.uk for their tracks I paypal it to them into their account.
So to anyone that says that I may not support the hardcore scene, you're dead ****ing wrong because I support them directly. Right into their hands, not to a distro site. If artists haven't gotten any money from me, it's because I don't support their music. That isn't unfair of me to say one bit.
Everyone wants to complain that there won't be anymore mix cds to buy anymore.
How about this, and this may come to a surprise:
Stop buying event tape packs and support the artists directly.
If you want them to make tunes for you to dance to and play for other people, pay them, not someone else that may end up ****ing them over.
Robbie Long told me once, "A plumber buys his tools so that he can get paid for his job. A dj pays for his records so that he can get paid for his job as well."
That stuck with me and impacted me in such a way that I have no problem sending him money. I buy tunes directly from the label sites when possible, That way the artists get the money in the bank.
Maybe you should follow my example instead of calling me a twat.
If the hardcore artists that I support ask me to pay them directly for their product I gladly have pen and checkbook in hand for them. I pay them the ammount that they ask to be paid and they get it immediately.
So all assumptions aside, what do you think of me now? Not so much of a retard now am I. I don't support distro that can potentially **** over artists and labels when they go tits up, I support the artists and labels directly when I can. |
| Brainchild |
Let's say that Resist did go bankrupt. I'm not saying it has or it hasn't because I'm awaiting the official announcement. But let's say for arguments sake that they did go to the wall. I do personally believe that it will be the end of Bonkers. Certainly as it is at the moment, if not forever.
For starters, I can't see who would want to pick it up. AATW have Cluland Extreme Hardcore. Nukleuz have Hardcore Adrenaline and Ministry of Sound have their Helter Skelter albums. So I can't see any of them picking it up.
Secondly, even if someone did decide to pick up Bonkers and continue makin it, I very much doubt they'll continue with number 18. It will be most likely in my view, and it is only my view, that it will begin back at number 1. Probably with a new logo and a different look as well as possible different DJ's. Just to seperate it from the old. |
| TypeR |
So now that I know that Jimmygoat is CLSM it makes a little more sense as to why he came at me all sideways about it.
Offer stands. If I feel as though I would benefit as a dj to support your music as well, I'd buy it from you personally.
You see, I support only a few Artists and Producers personally because I only play their music. I don't go and buy every new release just because it's hardcore. I don't support online record shops unless I have to because I want the artists to have all the money, not only part of it.
I don't own but 3 commercial hardcore mix cd's. One of them was a gift from Robbie. One I bought from Brisk from his site along with 15 records and 3 tee shirts (when Next Gen still had a store) And the other from Simon Apex.
They are that hard to get ahold of unless you buy from hardbeatstore.com or Choice or IMO.
Labels I support:
Thin and Crispy first and foremost. I own their entire catalog past present and future. I buy directly from Robbie.
Next Generation and Blatant Beats. I buy from hardbeatstore.com only because I have to. If Paul were to call me and tell me that I can purchase directly from him, believe me, he'd have my money sitting in his had immediately, and I've told him so, just waiting on a reply since he's a pretty busy dude.
Future Dance. Only about for the past few tunes released though. Also purchased from Hardbeatstore.com. Didn't have an option.
Artist I support, Robbie, Stormtrooper, D-Lyte, Injured Rez, MD, Brisk, Ham, Joey Riot, Kurt, Ethos
If you aren't on the list, that means that I don't play your music currently.
If you want me to play your music, make it available to me as an option to purchase it directly from you so that you get paid, and guess what, you'll get played, and paid.
*edited to say: Almost all of the artists tracks are on the same label, as not to create confusion that I personally send each one of them money. I send it to the label.*
|
| Orbit1 |
Bobby, buying direct from Robbie is great, but I can almost guarrantee vinyl doesn't actually bring him a profit. Most labels either do it and breakeven or press at a loss.
Smaller labels NEED the bigger distros/companies to throw their weight around. The majority of most labels income doesnt come from vinyl. Vinyl doesn't make money, at least not in hardcore. It comes from the big compilation CDs and when a company like Resist goes bust, it means that advances going to the artists and labels don't get paid. And thats a serious loss.
Yes, its great that you actually pay the artists directly, but once again, in the grand scheme of things, its still peanuts compared to what the distributors or bigger labels like React/Nukleuz/GutTV actually pay the labels and the artists.
Will be interesting to see if you'll play my forthcoming tunes on TNC too :P |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
Will be interesting to see if you'll play my forthcoming tunes on TNC too :P
we'll just have to see ;)
You can bet your money the answer is yes.
I was just making a point to inform Mr. Clsm that I do in fact know what I'm talking about, and in the grand scheme of things, my peanuts can add up. I don't play his tunes, and after so fondly being called a retard by him on public forum, I doubt I will in the future either. You see, retention is also key. Just because I don't play his records doesn't mean that I don't respect him. He doesn't actually care how I feel since he personally doesn't see my money, I'm just a bunch of white letters inside a blue box on a web forum. But in real life I'm a stateside hardcore dj going seven years strong. Not in a bedroom, but at raves. But we don't really matter as much because we aren't seen.
You see, Bonkers is great and all. If it were something that everyone could have instead of just the British, then it would be greater.
Imagine how much better sales would be if it were just a little bit easier to purchase huh.
Retention of business means to retain business. If you don't want to retain business, you lose business. If you don't want to make money, don't make your product available to everyone willing to purchase. If it takes ten years to recieve a purchase from a store, trust me, that will turn off a lot of people from purchasing it again. So big budget cds turn a distro tits up. Imagine how less tits up it would be if it weren't only exclusive to a country as big as the state of Texas. There are 49 other states over here full of hardcore fiends that would die to be able to buy that shit at the local Walmart.
It isn't going to happen, it will never happen, so all in all distro companies ate themselves by offering a product to only a select market, the share wasn't enough to pay the bills and business folds.
It's a big world out here, and sometimes, we all want a piece of the action. And are willing to pay top dollar for it.
|
| Orbit1 |
Thing is, you're going on the assumption that it was B17 that sent the resist bust. Resist/React did a whole lot more than just hardcore. And being in the compilation CD business I highly doubt that they limit themselves. Infact just looking at their discogs, they did house, trance and drum and bass, hardly limiting themselves to the underground.
Problem is that there isn't much/any distribution for electronic music in the US. I went to a huge music store in LA and the electronic music section was about the size of a school desk. Everything else was indy, emo, metal, general guitar "I'm going to whine and pretend I'm a rockstar" nonense.
I went to a record store in chicago, and they had plenty of house, nice selection of trance and breaks, but no hardcore.
Fact is, there is no company to distribute hardcore in the states, cds or vinyl. |
| SixFeet |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
No real income for produces on the black crack, or on the digital, and the smaller peeps will be locked out of albums! what do we do?
It's always been that way. Hardcore is a niche within a small genre of music to start with. The possibility of making any proper money is abismally small. So when people get the chance to mix a CD on a major compilation they're just going to showcase as much of there own songs and labels songs as possible for advertising. Coupled with the fact that they'll stick to the same formula of making the music as to not run the risk of having a record that won't make them money you end up hearing very similar songs every album over and over.
Majority of the new interest in the music is from 15-16 year old chavs and they're surely not going to be buying the albums. I doubt many old hardcore fans are going to then be willing to shell out £15 for an album of repetitive stuff so sales are dropping.
Because of the very small profit margin in the music and peoples greed anything that doesn't fit the mold set will never get any advertisement or major play time on any commericial album ever. When was the last time on a Bonkers album you saw Hixxy wityh less than 75% Raverbaby material, or Scott Brown with less than 75% Scott Brown material?
The way hardcore is produced and advertised by the big name DJ's is very short sighted with the focus being on making as much money for themselves and **** the rest before it drops off the face of the earth again. Of course not all, just most.
So smaller producers are left to there own accord. Not being brought through, just left in obscurity to fend for themselves and try and muster up a little money through word-of-mouth advertising. |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
Thing is, you're going on the assumption that it was B17 that sent the resist bust. Resist/React did a whole lot more than just hardcore. And being in the compilation CD business I highly doubt that they limit themselves. Infact just looking at their discogs, they did house, trance and drum and bass, hardly limiting themselves to the underground.
Problem is that there isn't much/any distribution for electronic music in the US. I went to a huge music store in LA and the electronic music section was about the size of a school desk. Everything else was indy, emo, metal, general guitar "I'm going to whine and pretend I'm a rockstar" nonense.
I went to a record store in chicago, and they had plenty of house, nice selection of trance and breaks, but no hardcore.
Fact is, there is no company to distribute hardcore in the states, cds or vinyl.
So when almost half of the world wants to buy something and they can't, guess what happens to those sales figures? Nothing. You can't sell something that is not available to purchase without paying unreal fees and shipping. Toss in a month and a half of waiting on shipping and even the diehard fan will stop buying.
I do not steal music. I'd just as soon not have it. I buy it. I know I'm only one person, but that's alot more than zero people. And just because it only adds up to peanuts, those peanuts to me are a paycheck that I had to earn at a real job so that I could buy these songs and records. I'm not a dj for a job. I'm a Union Electrical Material Handler, and every cent that I earn I earned proper. If labels, producers, or fellow djs don't want those cents then they won't have it. The attitude of carrying on about, "you are only one in many" doesn't help your case. If you are a producer and that is your job, it would be within your best interests as a businessman to not discredit the peanuts that are given to you. If the current affairs are as bad as you say, then wouldn't you want to retain business rather than put it away since that business is half a world away? America may be out of sight out of mind since it's so far away and the UK is thriving with events and such, and that is good and all, but if I were in the business of selling music, I'd make pretty damn sure it was available to anyone that was willing to pay a reasonable ticket price on it.
|
| Orbit1 |
which is why I'm actually work on getting an album out there in the USA. I've spent most of my Saturday helping some guys out in LA the logistics of it :P
of course I know everything counts, but you dont have to get all high and mighty about it. What I'm trying to say is that because of these big companies going down, its going to severely (possibly even take down) those they relied on them.
Arguing about the potential in the USA doesnt help because while there at loads of punters, there's no method of reaching them: distribution
Yes, it is my job. And you know what most producers including myself will most likely do? Just move to more profitable projects. Don't get loving in one place, just go somewhere else. |
| Samination |
Or move to Sweden, get a real job, and make music in the free time you get (usually, you only need one fcuking job here). It may take longer to make a track, but hey, look at Raverbaby, they got all the time in the world and they still dont give out shit.
(I actually ment the first statement.) |
| Orbit1 |
Or what about do what I want to, do what makes me happy? Isn't thats what its all about? |
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
Or what about do what I want to, do what makes me happy? Isn't thats what its all about?
Well said! |
| Jimmygoat |
Hello- read your replies, read my post carefully, it does call you a twat, but i should have made it clearer as to why,- this kind of made me mad having been hit hard by alphamagic and totall y diasgreeing with the situation:
"Once upon a time Alphamagic died, and in my mind seperated the men from the boys as far as how hard labels were going to try to keep afloat. The truly hardcore survived and weeded out the garbage. Distro has died again and hopefully it will have the same effect."
No, it kills all sorts of people. I also limited your twatyness to your thinking- not as a person, which i reinforced by called you a retard. Both of which ar slightly over the top, so if you are personally insulted then sorry- however I hope your views are challenged-
and you might accept 'how hard somebody is trying by their persistence to release things in a format you like' could be wrong.
Anyway, just to re-iterate, its to discredit your idea and not you. Dont feel I am trying to be nice to rope you into buying stuff or similar- CLSM has delivered straight to the public, bypassing promo mail outs for longer than anybody else. Stay calm, its the internet! |
| 95_was_the_time |
why dont they just re-release bonkers 1 and 2 again seeing as that's the only good bonkers albums out of all of them.
no wonder they're bust, maybe people have been listening to me all this time and started realising how crappy the hardcore music is these days.
bring back the 1995 1996 sounds I say, **** the new stuff, it's shite. |
| Orbit1 |
I swear they did release the old bonkers...Bonkers 2 - http://www.discogs.com/release/550780 |
| The Doc |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
I swear they did release the old bonkers...Bonkers 2 - http://www.discogs.com/release/550780
they get released all the time! (I own the 2003 versions) hes just a dick with nothing original to say!
|
| Brainchild |
All I want to know is if it is the end of Bonkers? It's the only true happy hardcore album as far as I'm concerned. Plus it's the only one that has an original title. Not like the albums released now that use the word "Hardcore" in the title. |
| Audio X |
At the end of the day, does it really matter if Bonkers ceases to exist? The series has 17 albums under its belt, which is a lot more than a lot of compilation series can say. It may be time to move on. I think the Hardcore Heaven series alongside Freeformation and Scott Brown's Hardwired series pretty much cover everything that Bonkers did, and if Hardcore Underground keeps going, we've got pretty much a full spectrum minus the KFA-esque stuff, and even it has the almighty Supaset to give it exposure.
The point is, companies go bust all the time and there's always another one lined up to take its place. It may be a little different, but the same purpose is served. We may have to accept a few changes, and hell... the punters probably won't even notice, because they don't care what goes on behind the scenes, but we will keep going.
To reiterate -- The sky is not falling. |
| Orbit1 |
^^^ Hardcore Heaven being distributed by Resist. |
| DJ Mole |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
Thing is, you're going on the assumption that it was B17 that sent the resist bust. Resist/React did a whole lot more than just hardcore. And being in the compilation CD business I highly doubt that they limit themselves. Infact just looking at their discogs, they did house, trance and drum and bass, hardly limiting themselves to the underground.
Problem is that there isn't much/any distribution for electronic music in the US. I went to a huge music store in LA and the electronic music section was about the size of a school desk. Everything else was indy, emo, metal, general guitar "I'm going to whine and pretend I'm a rockstar" nonense.
I went to a record store in chicago, and they had plenty of house, nice selection of trance and breaks, but no hardcore.
Fact is, there is no company to distribute hardcore in the states, cds or vinyl.
The Bonkers CD's were the ones that sold most on Resist |
| whispering |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
At the end of the day, does it really matter if Bonkers ceases to exist?
IMO, no. I stopped buying after 14, and even then it wasnt really delivering anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by Brainchild:
All I want to know is if it is the end of Bonkers? It's the only true happy hardcore album as far as I'm concerned. Plus it's the only one that has an original title. Not like the albums released now that use the word "Hardcore" in the title.
I remember when i started properly listening hardcore, odd 4-5 years ago. Used to search netstores that sold hardcore, by just going to the site and searching 'Hardcore', if it didnt find anything, went to another store. It made finding out about new albums so much easier, since majority of stores dont categorize the CD's that well ...and bonkers isnt that much diffrent "Hardcore Mutations", "Hardcore Strikes Back", "Hardcore Horror Show" etc |
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
^^^ Hardcore Heaven being distributed by Resist.
Not the point. There are tons of companies that put out compilations. They'll move to another.
|
| dj switchback |
Just like when React went tits up in 2004 , it was all the same remarks... Oh , is this the end of Bonkers etc etc
There will be something that takes it's place. Resist isn't the be all and end all. It's shit no doubt about it , but something will happen. (and no , not the death of the scene) lol |
| CDJay |
Short term it's seriously f**ed up a lot of mid tier producers.
Factor in that Bonkers/HH were pretty much the only "open" mainstream UK Hardcore albums left...... and it's pretty worrying.
The rich get richer....... the poor get stamped on until they run away or stop moving.
CDJay
|
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
Short term it's seriously f**ed up a lot of mid tier producers.
Factor in that Bonkers/HH were pretty much the only "open" mainstream UK Hardcore albums left...... and it's pretty worrying.
The rich get richer....... the poor get stamped on until they run away or stop moving.
CDJay
Now's your chance to seize power, Jon! Roll on HU3! :D
|
| this-is-bonkers |
this is a sad day for Hardcore.. |
| Dj Satsky |
Hardcore will still go on even if Resist has decided to go bust. |
| this-is-bonkers |
i specifcally meant bonkers, its my tie to hardcore & my fav compilation of all time! |
| Samination |
I got into hardcore throu happy2bhardcore, so I wouldnt bother if bonkers went down ;P...
generally, it was only Sharkey who played music from lesser known artists |
| Im_British |
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
When was the last time on a Bonkers album you saw Scott Brown with less than 75% Scott Brown material?
Bonkers 17.
Then Resist went bust.
Therefore, Scott Brown should have done 100% Evolution and everything would have been OK.
(Obvious sarcasm, but I do love Evo though :D ) |
| Dj Satsky |
They'll prob come up with another name to replace Resist. |
| Hard2Get |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
Bonkers cd's will still get made, and they still won't be available in the states through stateside distro.
Wanna know why alot of us in the states don't care? Because it's not available to us anyway.
It's easier to order online anyway either way, so no loss :P |
| Dain-Ja |
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
I got into hardcore throu happy2bhardcore, so I wouldnt bother if bonkers went down ;P...
generally, it was only Sharkey who played music from lesser known artists
h2bh was complete trash
...anyways, back on topic
This is definately not good for hardcore but we still haven't had confirmation that this is true. |
| SixFeet |
quote:
Originally posted by Im_British:
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
When was the last time on a Bonkers album you saw Scott Brown with less than 75% Scott Brown material?
Bonkers 17.
Then Resist went bust.
Therefore, Scott Brown should have done 100% Evolution and everything would have been OK.
(Obvious sarcasm, but I do love Evo though :D )
Just went and checked the tracklist at play.com to see it as I hadn't seen it before. That looks like a great tracklist!
|
| Hard2Get |
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
No real income for produces on the black crack, or on the digital, and the smaller peeps will be locked out of albums! what do we do?
It's always been that way. Hardcore is a niche within a small genre of music to start with. The possibility of making any proper money is abismally small. So when people get the chance to mix a CD on a major compilation they're just going to showcase as much of there own songs and labels songs as possible for advertising. Coupled with the fact that they'll stick to the same formula of making the music as to not run the risk of having a record that won't make them money you end up hearing very similar songs every album over and over.
Majority of the new interest in the music is from 15-16 year old chavs and they're surely not going to be buying the albums. I doubt many old hardcore fans are going to then be willing to shell out £15 for an album of repetitive stuff so sales are dropping.
Because of the very small profit margin in the music and peoples greed anything that doesn't fit the mold set will never get any advertisement or major play time on any commericial album ever. When was the last time on a Bonkers album you saw Hixxy wityh less than 75% Raverbaby material, or Scott Brown with less than 75% Scott Brown material?
The way hardcore is produced and advertised by the big name DJ's is very short sighted with the focus being on making as much money for themselves and **** the rest before it drops off the face of the earth again. Of course not all, just most.
So smaller producers are left to there own accord. Not being brought through, just left in obscurity to fend for themselves and try and muster up a little money through word-of-mouth advertising.
Couldn't have said it better, and i'm glady you said it because it's exactly what i would want to say!
Anyway, it's a sad story. |
| latininxtc |
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
Thing is, you're going on the assumption that it was B17 that sent the resist bust. Resist/React did a whole lot more than just hardcore. And being in the compilation CD business I highly doubt that they limit themselves. Infact just looking at their discogs, they did house, trance and drum and bass, hardly limiting themselves to the underground.
Problem is that there isn't much/any distribution for electronic music in the US. I went to a huge music store in LA and the electronic music section was about the size of a school desk. Everything else was indy, emo, metal, general guitar "I'm going to whine and pretend I'm a rockstar" nonense.
I went to a record store in chicago, and they had plenty of house, nice selection of trance and breaks, but no hardcore.
Fact is, there is no company to distribute hardcore in the states, cds or vinyl.
Yea it really sux that there isn't any easier access to hardcore than big distribution sites here in the US. I was a big supporter of the Happy2BHardcore series because it was one the compilations easily accessed here in the states. Then Moonshine, which is the label it belonged to, went bust. We can't blame it on the hardcore albums because I believe that was the only hardcore series they had and to my knowledge it was one of their more successful albums. The rest of their genre was progressive house/trance, D&B, etc.
I do agree with you that the choice of electronic is pathetic in the US. I grew tired of this "trance" they have out that seems to go slower and slower and that is why I have gone to Hardcore. Been a fan since 2000. And it is so difficult to be a big fan when you have to rely on buying compilations that come out every 2 to 3 months apart and sometimes they may not be good.
To the member named BOBBYRITALIN: It's great that you support the producers in hardcore directly, but for those of us who are big fans of the genre but are not trying to be DJs themselves it is extremely hard. There is no good website that provides downloadable mp3s of hardcore that is catered to all the labels. And I don't mean to be cheap about it, but I find it rather expensive to pay 2.50 US dollars (converted from pounds) when you can get songs from iTunes for $1 or less. That is the reason why an iPod is useless to me because I ONLY listen to hardcore.
And bonkers will live on. Someone who's given a big damn to the scene will not let it go away and I know whoever it is that will pick it up will take it into a new direction. I think of this incident as a renaissance and there will be a new enlightenment to the scene and I hope it is for the better. Sorry for the longwinded post but I've been wanting to get alot off my chest on these topics and this is a good one. |
| Hard2Get |
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
I got into hardcore throu happy2bhardcore, so I wouldnt bother if bonkers went down ;P...
generally, it was only Sharkey who played music from lesser known artists
h2bh was complete trash
Haha, i was thinking the same thing, i just wasn't going to say it :P
|
| Dain-Ja |
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
I got into hardcore throu happy2bhardcore, so I wouldnt bother if bonkers went down ;P...
generally, it was only Sharkey who played music from lesser known artists
h2bh was complete trash
Haha, i was thinking the same thing, i just wasn't going to say it :P
mixed by horrifyingic trainwreckic |
| whispering |
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
mixed by horrifyingic trainwreckic
But the tune selection was very good, which is the most important part of compilations. |
| DJ Fracus |
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmygoat:
Some of you are complete twats when it comes to using your brains (actually its probably a lack of understanding, but thats the outcome... i am only addressing the retard who's name i cant be bothered to agknowledge- it would be wrong!)- I think one of the hardest hit has been next generation in the last week or so. Thye pressed their own records and released 2 a month without fail where quite a few other labels either didnt have so much caught in the pipeline OR were pressed by amato and therefore didnt lose their money (just wont get the profits).
Resist going bust hurts the smaller artists who were relying on those payouts.
This has hit most hardcore producers hard... what needs to be done now is some serious thinking about the value of our tunes and why sales dropped off- where is the income for producers...
Its not in vinyl.
Its no longer in compilations (not much left for MOST people as tracklists are heavily owned by the djs mixing)- surely cd packs have to stop now as producers cant afford to give their music away??
Also, its worth pointing out clearly, that its not due to overwhelming high sales that these things are happening despite the popularity or hardcore. Sadly, i think it wont filter through to all the people buying cd packs and downloading music/ sharing that these are knock on consequences.. Rarrr..
*claps* |
| DJHaze |
None of this surprises me at all. Couldn't have come at a worse time.
I understand that mismanagement and the other views was the reason given regarding Amato ETC.
But bit off topic I strongly believe it is just going to get worse. Small labels just don't stand a chance. How long did ppl expect us to keep releasing units just to break even or more so? The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
Point is. I have no doubt that hardcore will survive this. New distribution will come up and big labels will be able to get through this.
Small Labels will be hit hard and possibly be gone all together.
I can't imagine anyone wanting to continue especially in this day in age.
It is just not worth it... 
|
| Jax |
you cant think of all those 100's of people who are downloading your tunes to be possible customers, ill bet at least 80% are in the midset that if its free they will download it if not they will do without |
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
This is actually easier to remedy than you'd think. Join the site, send a PM to the admin stating that you don't want them putting your stuff up, and they will blacklist your tracks and tracks from your label from the site. Simple. It may not stop the massive p2p sharing, but it stops the goings-on from these sites by some margin. Most filesharing sites are very accomodating when it comes to this (I know personally, as I belong to one a couple for another type of...er, "hardcore" [that's PORN, for you people who have apparently misunderstood me] and it's the same way lol).
|
| DJHaze |
quote:
Originally posted by Jax:
you cant think of all those 100's of people who are downloading your tunes to be possible customers, ill bet at least 80% are in the midset that if its free they will download it if not they will do without
So that makes it ok?
That just shows me the appreciation has gone.
If people wouldn't buy it or download it but they do anyways because they can? How is that right?
Give me the days where people use to spend time searching for a vinyl release and appreciate its value.
Not download it just because they can but they wouldn’t if they had to pay for it.
Unbelievable.
What message is that sending to the producers? |
| DJHaze |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
This is actually easier to remedy than you'd think. Join the site, send a PM to the admin stating that you don't want them putting your stuff up, and they will blacklist your tracks and tracks from your label from the site. Simple. It may not stop the massive p2p sharing, but it stops the goings-on from these sites by some margin. Most filesharing sites are very accomodating when it comes to this (I know personally, as I belong to one a couple for another type of...er, "hardcore" and it's the same way lol).
Myself and multiple producers have tried to do that for the past 2 years on this one particular site. I joined a year ago to try and stop that. It did not work. I have done what you said on about 4 other websites and they have obliged. A new one always pops up. I understand what you are saying but it is never that easy to stop it. Its always going to be a battle.
|
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
This is actually easier to remedy than you'd think. Join the site, send a PM to the admin stating that you don't want them putting your stuff up, and they will blacklist your tracks and tracks from your label from the site. Simple. It may not stop the massive p2p sharing, but it stops the goings-on from these sites by some margin. Most filesharing sites are very accomodating when it comes to this (I know personally, as I belong to one a couple for another type of...er, "hardcore" and it's the same way lol).
Myself and multiple producers have tried to do that for the past 2 years on this one particular site. I joined a year ago to try and stop that. It did not work. I have done what you said on about 4 other websites and they have obliged. A new one always pops up. I understand what you are saying but it is never that easy to stop it. Its always going to be a battle.
Note that I said "by some margin". It's true that a new one pops up for each one that goes down, but at the same time it drives them further underground to the point where the people using the sites won't be the type to buy anything in the first place. At the very least it's damage control.
|
| DJHaze |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
This is actually easier to remedy than you'd think. Join the site, send a PM to the admin stating that you don't want them putting your stuff up, and they will blacklist your tracks and tracks from your label from the site. Simple. It may not stop the massive p2p sharing, but it stops the goings-on from these sites by some margin. Most filesharing sites are very accomodating when it comes to this (I know personally, as I belong to one a couple for another type of...er, "hardcore" and it's the same way lol).
Myself and multiple producers have tried to do that for the past 2 years on this one particular site. I joined a year ago to try and stop that. It did not work. I have done what you said on about 4 other websites and they have obliged. A new one always pops up. I understand what you are saying but it is never that easy to stop it. Its always going to be a battle.
Note that I said "by some margin". It's true that a new one pops up for each one that goes down, but at the same time it drives them further underground to the point where the people using the sites won't be the type to buy anything in the first place. At the very least it's damage control.
I disagree. But we all have our opinions. It shouldn't be anyone’s right. Underground or not to freely distribute a track without the permission of the label owner or the artist. I know you aint implying that either. I just don't believe in damage control on distribution of tracks. The sites should not be up all together.
|
| The Doc |
anyway back to the thread topic please! I think Resist tried to much to soon this year! (or could it of been desperation) They did loads of the budget CD's! (copying the decadance route) and also trying new formats like HF&F to sell CD's! and then their final release B17 which didn't sell well (we all know why) has finished them! |
| Meph751 |
bonkers 17 didn't sell well? where'd you get that info just out of curiosity? i thought it was a pretty good compilation. |
| TypeR |
So I as a consumer has two options, and I'll use this for example only:
I have a whiz bang camera phone. I like art. I take a picture of art. I blow up picture on my wall because it looks real. Now I have art on my wall. I didn't buy it but I like it.
or
I have money. I like art. I wish to buy a painting of art. I purchase the art for my wall because it looks good and feels good to own an original work. Now I have art on my wall. I paid a fortune for it.
So, read both of those examples. One example will cause artists to have to find jobs for the first time since they were kids because they are no longer selling art. Selling art is their job. It may not affect them right away, however once they decide to go buy new paint, they find to their dismay that they cannot afford it anymore.
So they have to quit being artists
Don't steal art. |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Meph751:
bonkers 17 didn't sell well? where'd you get that info just out of curiosity? i thought it was a pretty good compilation.
Just because you personally thought it sounded good to your ears, doesn't mean that it sold units.
|
| silver |
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
This is definately not good for hardcore but we still haven't had confirmation that this is true.
Sorry read the news page :) this is 100% confirmed, I have confirmed this with former staff. |
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
This is actually easier to remedy than you'd think. Join the site, send a PM to the admin stating that you don't want them putting your stuff up, and they will blacklist your tracks and tracks from your label from the site. Simple. It may not stop the massive p2p sharing, but it stops the goings-on from these sites by some margin. Most filesharing sites are very accomodating when it comes to this (I know personally, as I belong to one a couple for another type of...er, "hardcore" and it's the same way lol).
Myself and multiple producers have tried to do that for the past 2 years on this one particular site. I joined a year ago to try and stop that. It did not work. I have done what you said on about 4 other websites and they have obliged. A new one always pops up. I understand what you are saying but it is never that easy to stop it. Its always going to be a battle.
Note that I said "by some margin". It's true that a new one pops up for each one that goes down, but at the same time it drives them further underground to the point where the people using the sites won't be the type to buy anything in the first place. At the very least it's damage control.
I disagree. But we all have our opinions. It shouldn't be anyone’s right. Underground or not to freely distribute a track without the permission of the label owner or the artist. I know you aint implying that either. I just don't believe in damage control on distribution of tracks. The sites should not be up all together.
Oh believe me, I'm with you on that one, but the fact is that they are there, and there really isn't anything we can do except to know who is distributing what and where and make sure that the proper actions are taken to control the flow of traffic to that location or somehow blacklist our tracks from those sites by dealing with the administrators.
I'm not saying it's the ideal situation, but what other options do we have at this point? |
| dj switchback |
quote:
Originally posted by The Doc:
anyway back to the thread topic please! I think Resist tried to much to soon this year! (or could it of been desperation) They did loads of the budget CD's! (copying the decadance route) and also trying new formats like HF&F to sell CD's! and then their final release B17 which didn't sell well (we all know why) has finished them!
I'm assuming you are thinking that it was partly due to Bonkers 17 , and your saying we all know why it didn't sell? No Raverbaby artists etc etc
Well your incorrect for FACT mate. Bonkers 17 has done well from what i can gather , and this is no fault of Hardcore in the slightest.
Just cause the Bonkers line up changed , and some new projects were tried , that wasn't the reason why the company collapsed. |
| DJHaze |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
This is actually easier to remedy than you'd think. Join the site, send a PM to the admin stating that you don't want them putting your stuff up, and they will blacklist your tracks and tracks from your label from the site. Simple. It may not stop the massive p2p sharing, but it stops the goings-on from these sites by some margin. Most filesharing sites are very accomodating when it comes to this (I know personally, as I belong to one a couple for another type of...er, "hardcore" and it's the same way lol).
Myself and multiple producers have tried to do that for the past 2 years on this one particular site. I joined a year ago to try and stop that. It did not work. I have done what you said on about 4 other websites and they have obliged. A new one always pops up. I understand what you are saying but it is never that easy to stop it. Its always going to be a battle.
Note that I said "by some margin". It's true that a new one pops up for each one that goes down, but at the same time it drives them further underground to the point where the people using the sites won't be the type to buy anything in the first place. At the very least it's damage control.
I disagree. But we all have our opinions. It shouldn't be anyone’s right. Underground or not to freely distribute a track without the permission of the label owner or the artist. I know you aint implying that either. I just don't believe in damage control on distribution of tracks. The sites should not be up all together.
Oh believe me, I'm with you on that one, but the fact is that they are there, and there really isn't anything we can do except to know who is distributing what and where and make sure that the proper actions are taken to control the flow of traffic to that location or somehow blacklist our tracks from those sites by dealing with the administrators.
I'm not saying it's the ideal situation, but what other options do we have at this point?
I agree mate. I might PM you so we can talk about this further so other people can talk about Resist directly in this thread. Would be good to see what sites you know about so you might be able to help me if that is ok. 
|
| Audio X |
All the sharing sites I belong to are for a more... erm, "adult" sort of hardcore. 
But I'd be glad to tell you what I know! LOL |
| TypeR |
but you can't sit on the high horse of "don't steal MY types of files" if you yourself steal files. that's talking out of both sides of your mouth. it's either steal or don't steal. you're no better than someone that steals hardcore if you are against the illegal download of hardcore file sharing, yet you fileshare to steal something else. it's still file sharing and it's still wrong to do even if it's not for hardcore tunes. |
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
but you can't sit on the high horse of "don't steal MY types of files" if you yourself steal files. that's talking out of both sides of your mouth. it's either steal or don't steal. you're no better than someone that steals hardcore if you are against the illegal download of hardcore file sharing, yet you fileshare to steal something else. it's still file sharing and it's still wrong to do even if it's not for hardcore tunes.
For the record, porn is a multi-billion dollar industry regardless of the filesharing. Hardcore is not, so yeah, I can be a bit of a hypocrite about it and not lose sleep at night. What I'm against is stealing from the little guys. Independent artists/labels, and more underground music. I have downloaded mainstream music and I still do every once in a while, because the people involved are already enjoying their new BMWs and "cribs". If you steal from, say, Mumsbasement Records and they don't break even, the people involved might have to cut back on groceries for a little while.
Ever heard of Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor, etc? It's a good book. You should download it sometime. |
| TypeR |
I was just saying that all is fair in love and war.
Copyright law.
It's a good one, you should follow it sometime.
Stealing is stealing, plain and simple. You wouldn't go shoplift at a big department store just because they made a trillion dollars that day, but not steal from the corner store because it's smaller. Billions or not, it's still stealing.
Either way, Resist must have been big. Big enough to carry other genres. If everyone had the same idea about it like you, however thought that Resist was the biggest thing in the world and stole every copy of Bonkers that they could, that could in turn make them bankrupt. So, in turn, The little guy just turned around and ****ed the little guy then.
Your idea of big and other peoples ideas of big aren't always the same.
What if everyone thought that CLSM (we'll use him as an example) was super duper huge. In our genre he is, but in the grand scheme of things he's the little guy. So since the kids that think he's a super big rockstar decided to never pay for his tracks because they thought that he was driving around a Bently and could afford to have the tracks be ripped off from him. Only a few people are doing it so it shouldn't really matter right? Well let's figure he only sells five records a month at ten bucks a piece, that's only fifty bucks (if he sold them directly without distro.) Now say that 36 people stole the track rather than buying it. He still only made 50 bucks. Say it cost 2000 bucks to press that record to vinyl and he has 500 copies of it at home. He would have to sell 41 units a month to sell all of them in a year to get rid of all of them. And he'd have to make 166 bucks a month on those sales to break even on his investment. If he only sold 5 units and only made fifty bucks that month, then he is well behind the 8ball on his money. So long story short, he has a ton of records on his desk at home and no money because everyone in the land stole his tunes.
Now imagine if CLSM produced and cut to vinyl 2 tracks a month.
He'll be broke and go out of business.
Now that is only 1 artist out of many. Say that happens to every artist that presses vinyl. Everyone will go out of business because of "Robin Hood" |
| Meph751 |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
quote:
Originally posted by Meph751:
bonkers 17 didn't sell well? where'd you get that info just out of curiosity? i thought it was a pretty good compilation.
Just because you personally thought it sounded good to your ears, doesn't mean that it sold units.
i know that, i just have heard nothing about bonkers 17 doing poorly, and see no reason it would do any worse than the previous cds, which to the best of my knowledge, were pretty successful?
|
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
I was just saying that all is fair in love and war.
Copyright law.
It's a good one, you should follow it sometime.
Stealing is stealing, plain and simple. You wouldn't go shoplift at a big department store just because they made a trillion dollars that day, but not steal from the corner store because it's smaller. Billions or not, it's still stealing.
Either way, Resist must have been big. Big enough to carry other genres. If everyone had the same idea about it like you, however thought that Resist was the biggest thing in the world and stole every copy of Bonkers that they could, that could in turn make them bankrupt. So, in turn, The little guy just turned around and ****ed the little guy then.
Your idea of big and other peoples ideas of big aren't always the same.
What if everyone thought that CLSM (we'll use him as an example) was super duper huge. In our genre he is, but in the grand scheme of things he's the little guy. So since the kids that think he's a super big rockstar decided to never pay for his tracks because they thought that he was driving around a Bently and could afford to have the tracks be ripped off from him. Only a few people are doing it so it shouldn't really matter right? Well let's figure he only sells five records a month at ten bucks a piece, that's only fifty bucks (if he sold them directly without distro.) Now say that 36 people stole the track rather than buying it. He still only made 50 bucks. Say it cost 2000 bucks to press that record to vinyl and he has 500 copies of it at home. He would have to sell 41 units a month to sell all of them in a year to get rid of all of them. And he'd have to make 166 bucks a month on those sales to break even on his investment. If he only sold 5 units and only made fifty bucks that month, then he is well behind the 8ball on his money. So long story short, he has a ton of records on his desk at home and no money because everyone in the land stole his tunes.
Now imagine if CLSM produced and cut to vinyl 2 tracks a month.
He'll be broke and go out of business.
Now that is only 1 artist out of many. Say that happens to every artist that presses vinyl. Everyone will go out of business because of "Robin Hood"
But you could also look at it on the flip side, if he did sell the quota unit ammount every month and didn't spend a cent all year, he'd make a million dollars cash.
*edited to say*
You can't profess to others how they shouldn't rip people off if you yourself rip people off. It's called the golden rule, maybe you should follow it sometime. And I laugh because you are supposed to be the "professional"
|
| Vitalism |
although i do see both sides, what bobby has to say here is true whether you like to admit it or not. and when you get right down to the principle, stealing is stealing. |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by alex_e:
although i do see both sides, what bobby has to say here is true whether you like to admit it or not. and when you get right down to the principle, stealing is stealing.
but i guess if you are a "superstar" like Audio-X then it's ok to rip off some porn since he's too rockstar for actual pussy
|
| Leto |
^^Where are you getting the quotes from. Not sure Audio X has called himself a superstar or a rockstar or anything of the sort. |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Leto:
^^Where are you getting the quotes from. Not sure Audio X has called himself a superstar or a rockstar or anything of the sort.
go to his myspace, you'll get it after that. Brisk and Robbie Long don't even call themselves the Premier in their own respects
|
| Leto |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
quote:
Originally posted by Leto:
^^Where are you getting the quotes from. Not sure Audio X has called himself a superstar or a rockstar or anything of the sort.
go to his myspace, you'll get it after that. Brisk and Robbie Long don't even call themselves the Premier in their own respects
He definitely says he's one of the premier hardcore artists of the Southeast. Argue that. Seriously. I don't know any other hardcore artists in the Southeast besides DJ Sash and he's certainly not premier (no offense Sash.)
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| Audio X |
"Premier" means the first, and is really a tongue-in-cheek way of saying "the only". Apart from Michael Mansion, who moved from LA, there's nobody else down here who produces at all.
@Bobbyritalin: Yeah, I've got an ego. But at least I'm doing something for the scene apart from whining about how shit everyone else is. ****twat. |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
"Premier" means the first, and is really a tongue-in-cheek way of saying "the only". Apart from Michael Mansion, who moved from LA, there's nobody else down here who produces at all. Jackass.
So even though you suck at it, since you're the only one that does it must mean that you're the best in your class. Priceless.
Look dude, you can say anything that you want, and flame me all day long. I won't stop saying that you are a hypocritical nobody. Your point was people shouldn't steal yet you yourself steal. Ever since I called you out on it, you begin flaming on other threads. Cool man, it's your paycheck not mine. See, I don't get paid to be a producer, and judging by the quality of your music, neither do you.
|
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
"Premier" means the first, and is really a tongue-in-cheek way of saying "the only". Apart from Michael Mansion, who moved from LA, there's nobody else down here who produces at all.
@Bobbyritalin: Yeah, I've got an ego. But at least I'm doing something for the scene apart from whining about how shit everyone else is. ****twat.
doing something like what? I've been djing since before you stole your first copy of Fruity Loops to "make" "music" and have thrown the largest Hardcore events ever to happen in the Pacific Northwest. Trust me, I've been pretty active.
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| Leto |
^^Ummm...
Right, what about Audio X's music is bad again?
I'm a fan. And apparently so are other people, like AC Slater, Ruffage, etc. I mean, do you have a track on Hardcore Underground??
Stop insulting. That's directed in general. |
| TypeR |
I'm not even going to try anymore, see just because you like it and 2 other dj's played ten seconds of his tune once at a house party doesn't mean it's a platinum seller. It was on an album, right on. Every hardcore tune released this year is on an album it seems. Just because it's put on an album doesn't mean that it's off the charts, dj's knowingly put filler tracks in to keep their tracklists full of quantity, over quality. It's a commercially proven tactic. |
| Leto |
^^**** off.
No more from me. ;) |
| TypeR |
That's classic of this site. Someone says something about stuff that other people like and they get results like that. |
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
"Premier" means the first, and is really a tongue-in-cheek way of saying "the only". Apart from Michael Mansion, who moved from LA, there's nobody else down here who produces at all.
@Bobbyritalin: Yeah, I've got an ego. But at least I'm doing something for the scene apart from whining about how shit everyone else is. ****twat.
doing something like what? I've been djing since before you stole your first copy of Fruity Loops to "make" "music" and have thrown the largest Hardcore events ever to happen in the Pacific Northwest. Trust me, I've been pretty active.
I own my software, and I've been producing for almost ten years. But you know what? I don't take myself seriously unlike you, and that's why you come off as an egotistical dick. I can call myself the PREMIER ARTIST OF THE SOUTHEAST!!!!!!111 because I don't mean it. There's nobody else down here, so it's kind of a sarcastic tagline that makes me smile. It's called a sense of humor. You should grow one.
And I've never said anywhere that I have a huge problem with filesharing. In fact, I condone it to an extent. Yeah, it sucks for some people who are trying to run a record label, but in my opinion that comes down to the way our entire scene is run. It's too stuck on vinyl, and it's dragging us down. The mainstream music companies have actually been able to make filesharing A GOOD THING. It's become a kind of viral advertising for them, and it works.
So yes, I share porn, and I'm not ashamed of saying it. In fact, the site is WWW.EMPORNIUM.US and I guarantee you that half of the people who read this post will sign up for it. Good for them! You'd be surprised who shares certain types of files. Even some of the biggest names in our scene download some things, and I bet you do too, although you're too much of a coward to admit it.
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| TypeR |
I buy stuff from people. There is no pride in stealing it. I like to buy stuff, it helps out with the economy of things. I don't actually take myself too seriously, but I take music and the hardcore scene very seriously because it's my passion. There is no shame in that either. Some of these artists that are hurt by all of this stuff happen to be friends of mine and it pains me to think that once they are gone, I won't be able to buy their new tunes or mixes anymore. As for movies and other types of music, I like to buy them too so that there is a package to see and hold. You get to find gems and the thrill is in the hunt. Stealing it has no thrill to it, it's way to easy. Most of the tunes in my record collection are priceless gems that would have lost their magic if I had just ripped them off. You would understand if you were holding a white label of follow the sun in your hot little hands, or Force and Styles Dubplates, not mp3's or test presses, or promos even, but actual dubplates. |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
"Premier" means the first, and is really a tongue-in-cheek way of saying "the only". Apart from Michael Mansion, who moved from LA, there's nobody else down here who produces at all.
@Bobbyritalin: Yeah, I've got an ego. But at least I'm doing something for the scene apart from whining about how shit everyone else is. ****twat.
doing something like what? I've been djing since before you stole your first copy of Fruity Loops to "make" "music" and have thrown the largest Hardcore events ever to happen in the Pacific Northwest. Trust me, I've been pretty active.
I own my software, and I've been producing for almost ten years. But you know what? I don't take myself seriously unlike you, and that's why you come off as an egotistical dick. I can call myself the PREMIER ARTIST OF THE SOUTHEAST!!!!!!111 because I don't mean it. There's nobody else down here, so it's kind of a sarcastic tagline that makes me smile. It's called a sense of humor. You should grow one.
And I've never said anywhere that I have a huge problem with filesharing. In fact, I condone it to an extent. Yeah, it sucks for some people who are trying to run a record label, but in my opinion that comes down to the way our entire scene is run. It's too stuck on vinyl, and it's dragging us down. The mainstream music companies have actually been able to make filesharing A GOOD THING. It's become a kind of viral advertising for them, and it works.
So yes, I share porn, and I'm not ashamed of saying it. In fact, the site is WWW.EMPORNIUM.US and I guarantee you that half of the people who read this post will sign up for it. Good for them! You'd be surprised who shares certain types of files. Even some of the biggest names in our scene download some things, and I bet you do too, although you're too much of a coward to admit it.
All joking aside, this is a serious question, why would you promote yourself as the premier at something if you didn't want to promote yourself as the best? Isn't that the idea?
|
| Audio X |
Because I'm not the best. There are producers who blow me away with their technical skill, like Cube::Hard, Darwin, Luna-C, Ephexis, etc. I've missed some even, but I don't want to drop all kinds of names and sound like an ass-licker. The point is, I make music because I like to, and I really don't expect a lot of money out of it either, but you seem to have missed that idea along the way somewhere. A lot of artists never see more than 3 figures a year for their work, if that.
At any rate, I'll leave you to your massive library of paid-for pornography then... we all know how you like to hold your package.
You've sure got me beat. You must be related to Jesus! |
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
I'll leave you to your massive library of paid-for pornography then... we all know how you like to hold your package.
You've sure got me beat. You must be related to Jesus!
The point I was trying to make is that the idea of having an actual possession rather than a computer file would be better in my opinion.
|
| Future_Shock |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
I'm not even going to try anymore, see just because you like it and 2 other dj's played ten seconds of his tune once at a house party doesn't mean it's a platinum seller. It was on an album, right on. Every hardcore tune released this year is on an album it seems. Just because it's put on an album doesn't mean that it's off the charts, dj's knowingly put filler tracks in to keep their tracklists full of quantity, over quality. It's a commercially proven tactic.
That's a prety naive thing to say. I mean, who says to be successful and a 'Hardcore verified artist' you have to have a paltinum seller?
You started off being like "who are you, nobody knows who you are" when i reality everyone who bought (or downloaded as the argument is) HU2 knows who he is. To me, featuring on a compilation makes you an artist. And a successful one at that. What exactly is your argument here?
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| TypeR |
I've never heard that album before, not alot of hardcore albums are available in the states unless you order it from abroad, and that is very expensive sometimes so no, until today I didn't know he was on that album. My mistake, and I'll own up to that. But that doesn't mean that he's a well known name everywhere know what I mean? If distro goes up in smoke, even if compilation cd's survive the fallout they will still be just as hard to get a hold of in the states. |
| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
I'll leave you to your massive library of paid-for pornography then... we all know how you like to hold your package.
You've sure got me beat. You must be related to Jesus!
The point I was trying to make is that the idea of having an actual possession rather than a computer file would be better in my opinion.
I wholeheartedly agree with you when it comes to music, but I like my porn like I like my toilet paper: easy to reach and disposable. 
|
| Mental_Adam |
quote:
we all know how you like to hold your package.
  |
| TypeR |
[quote]Originally posted by Audio X:
Because I'm not the best. There are producers who blow me away with their technical skill, like Cube::Hard, Darwin, Luna-C, Ephexis, etc. I've missed some even, but I don't want to drop all kinds of names and sound like an ass-licker. The point is, I make music because I like to, and I really don't expect a lot of money out of it either, but you seem to have missed that idea along the way somewhere. A lot of artists never see more than 3 figures a year for their work, if that.
quote]
*you had edited it after I had quoted it the first time*
Money helps a little bit, but wouldn't you want to make more? There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I don't think you give yourself credit. Just because I don't like you music, I guess if you're tunes get cained by Aaron and you've got a tune on a big cd you've got something going for you.
I haven't missed the idea of making money at making music because I don't make music. I'm terrible in the studio. However as a dj, I prefer to make money at it so that I can drive back and forth to gigs, buy new records, clothes, food, bills, on and on. If you make a commercially viable form of product, shouldn't you expect to draw profit?
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| Audio X |
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
[quote]Originally posted by Audio X:
Because I'm not the best. There are producers who blow me away with their technical skill, like Cube::Hard, Darwin, Luna-C, Ephexis, etc. I've missed some even, but I don't want to drop all kinds of names and sound like an ass-licker. The point is, I make music because I like to, and I really don't expect a lot of money out of it either, but you seem to have missed that idea along the way somewhere. A lot of artists never see more than 3 figures a year for their work, if that.
quote]
*you had edited it after I had quoted it the first time*
Money helps a little bit, but wouldn't you want to make more? There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I don't think you give yourself credit. Just because I don't like you music, I guess if you're tunes get cained by Aaron and you've got a tune on a big cd you've got something going for you.
I haven't missed the idea of making money at making music because I don't make music. I'm terrible in the studio. However as a dj, I prefer to make money at it so that I can drive back and forth to gigs, buy new records, clothes, food, bills, on and on. If you make a commercially viable form of product, shouldn't you expect to draw profit?
If I made a commercially viable product, then yes. But it's hardcore. There's very little money in this genre if you're just an artist. You get some royalties here and there, but it's nothing fantastic. Pocket money if anything. I've even put out a few records knowing full well that I wouldn't get paid for them. But I like having my tracks on vinyl, so it's worth it to me. Like you said in another thread, the real money is in engineering. My tracks are just for the sheer love of it.
|
| TypeR |
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by BobbyRitalin:
[quote]Originally posted by Audio X:
Because I'm not the best. There are producers who blow me away with their technical skill, like Cube::Hard, Darwin, Luna-C, Ephexis, etc. I've missed some even, but I don't want to drop all kinds of names and sound like an ass-licker. The point is, I make music because I like to, and I really don't expect a lot of money out of it either, but you seem to have missed that idea along the way somewhere. A lot of artists never see more than 3 figures a year for their work, if that.
quote]
*you had edited it after I had quoted it the first time*
Money helps a little bit, but wouldn't you want to make more? There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I don't think you give yourself credit. Just because I don't like you music, I guess if you're tunes get cained by Aaron and you've got a tune on a big cd you've got something going for you.
I haven't missed the idea of making money at making music because I don't make music. I'm terrible in the studio. However as a dj, I prefer to make money at it so that I can drive back and forth to gigs, buy new records, clothes, food, bills, on and on. If you make a commercially viable form of product, shouldn't you expect to draw profit?
If I made a commercially viable product, then yes. But it's hardcore. There's very little money in this genre if you're just an artist. You get some royalties here and there, but it's nothing fantastic. Pocket money if anything. I've even put out a few records knowing full well that I wouldn't get paid for them. But I like having my tracks on vinyl, so it's worth it to me. Like you said in another thread, the real money is in engineering. My tracks are just for the sheer love of it.
I couldn't imagine seeing my name on a label in the center of the vinyl, that would be too cool.
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| Samination |
Seriously, in the end, music isn't something you can touch.
You can't touch the sound, but you can ofcourse touch the bloody
thing that generates it, but not the sound itself. NUFF SAID.
You can't get to the pirates, if you don't forcible change the people's right to live in the whole world (Hell, ofcourse we got chinese who listen to hardcore :P)
I legally download my hardcore (in the past 6 months I've only illegally downloaded 1 track), and I illegally download most other things (tho If I like it much, I will buy that aswell).
just for the heck of it, Im going to quote myself what I said on USH
quote:
So, because you want want to let vinyl live, the labels should just give up on CD's or digital?
Does that mean I have to buy a vinyl every single time, just to ripp it, and then throw the vinyl out, just because I dont have any need for it anymore? In any way, Both of us (label and I) will lose money on that, because you hardcore antagonist's want to stick to only vinyl, and let us who actually buy CD or digital singels in decline. Even if it's not much money, it's still money.
I haven't seen anyone say how much an artist/label earns for each vinyl sold, or each mp3 sold. I wouldn't mind that some tracks are sold at half the price of a PRESSED vinyl (that would mean they would earn more per track, since there's no pressing cost on a fukcing mp3), as long as I like it (If I didn't like it, I wouldn't even buy it if it was 99p).
And blaming filesharing, when Jay just said that some of the top tier labels sells in the 1000's... I don't get it, but then those are the easiest/most sought after labels on filesharing communities, and their not digital (except for the promos that are given out... the artists must be giving out the promo's to people who fileshares them on purpose).
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Vinyls. But FOREMOST, I'm a hardcore listener, and not a bedroom/fulltime DJ, as some people would think, or what my ush-name says. So I just want my music in easiest way for me to listen, and if I like it, I wouldn't mind paying abit more for it to get it on CD or mp3 (preferbly wav tho)
|
| kathryn |
Does that mean no more Bonkers ever? |
| Dj Satsky |
Prob by the time the next Bonkers CD comes out they'll have come up with a replacement for Resist. |
| kathryn |
Why cant the dj's who came together to make the Bonkers cd's speak up and keep Bonkers going?
Come on Scot Brown
Sharky
Hixxy
Breeze
Styles
and anyone else who helped to put Bonkers together.
Dont let Bonkers die |
| Xanergy |
I'd assume that lots of companies would jump at the chance to host Bonkers. I wonder if there's really a reason to worry about this. Sorry for my ignorant reply, I'm just getting into the understanding of all this. |
| Samination |
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
Why cant the dj's who came together to make the Bonkers cd's speak up and keep Bonkers going?
Come on Scot Brown
Sharky
Hixxy
Breeze
Styles
and anyone else who helped to put Bonkers together.
Dont let Bonkers die
I never imagined that you'd not say Vibes :P |
| kathryn |
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
Why cant the dj's who came together to make the Bonkers cd's speak up and keep Bonkers going?
Come on Scot Brown
Sharky
Hixxy
Breeze
Styles
and anyone else who helped to put Bonkers together.
Dont let Bonkers die
I never imagined that you'd not say Vibes :P
oops its the old brain and memory thing |
| dj switchback |
Dunno why folk this would be the end of Bonkers. I don't recall it being the end of Bonkers in the summer of 2004 when React went bust.
A new company will no doubt come along and take Resist place.
It's not all doom and gloom , even though short term it is shit. |
| SixFeet |
I'm off to take a big dump. Will post pictures of my escapades later.
Discuss! |
| Ghetto_smurf420 |
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by Audio X:
quote:
Originally posted by DJHaze:The websites for illegal downloads is out of control. The 2 that come to mind I wont mention just for the pure chance ppl on here don't know them but I will say every single one of my Executive releases and Digital downloads are on there a day after they are released and I look at the thread views and cringe at the fact 100s of people have downloaded these tunes for free. I see every major artists tune on there including most of the raverbaby tunes and I see members on this forum and USH posting on there and downloading the tracks for free.
This is actually easier to remedy than you'd think. Join the site, send a PM to the admin stating that you don't want them putting your stuff up, and they will blacklist your tracks and tracks from your label from the site. Simple. It may not stop the massive p2p sharing, but it stops the goings-on from these sites by some margin. Most filesharing sites are very accomodating when it comes to this (I know personally, as I belong to one a couple for another type of...er, "hardcore" and it's the same way lol).
Myself and multiple producers have tried to do that for the past 2 years on this one particular site. I joined a year ago to try and stop that. It did not work. I have done what you said on about 4 other websites and they have obliged. A new one always pops up. I understand what you are saying but it is never that easy to stop it. Its always going to be a battle.
Note that I said "by some margin". It's true that a new one pops up for each one that goes down, but at the same time it drives them further underground to the point where the people using the sites won't be the type to buy anything in the first place. At the very least it's damage control.
I disagree. But we all have our opinions. It shouldn't be anyone’s right. Underground or not to freely distribute a track without the permission of the label owner or the artist. I know you aint implying that either. I just don't believe in damage control on distribution of tracks. The sites should not be up all together.
How About Everybody Just Does What I Do And Buy Every Single Happy Hardcore Cd There Is Truly Support The Industry You Claim TO Love By Buying Every Cd Before Hearing It WIthout Judgements About The Djs The Tracklist And All The Other Crap You Peeps Whine ABout In These Forums Right Now I Have 45 Total Compilation Albums Making It About 100 Cds I get 2 Or 3 More A Month I Dont Care That I Have Some Songs On 5 Albums Its Differant Mixes Everytime.......................I Dunno Its Just A Suggestion |
| Samination |
ehm, less use of caps = more trustworthy :P
anyways, what does buying every single CD help anyone? only thing (except Shanty's Electronica Exposed at the moment) on CD's nowadays are bloody compilations... If I wantedto support the artist I enjoy listening to, I rather, just like Bobby Ritalin, pay them directly. if anything, wouldn't that the artist feel appreciated? |
| Xanergy |
I agree with DJ Samination. I'd prefer to pay the artist direct. I'd feel good about supporting them and they'd feel good that I went direct to them for the sounds.
The thing about p2p users is, at least in my case, I never knew where else I could find the good tracks. I'd bought a few CD's from my local store and they turned out to be crap. It was then I decided not to buy stuff thats not good, and just get music for free thats only "possibly" junk. If it is, I don't waste money, if not, then I scored a free song that kicks ass. I started getting into it so I decided to make a transition where I'd search artists and when I found that their music is good, I'd go out to buy their CD's for the main purpose of support. Now, I never use the p2p programs and purchase all of my music. Legally.
The problems remain tho. I'm sure some people followed the same path as me but odds are, majority of them would rather get everything for free than go out and spend their money. I mean who wouldn't? But its the people that have the right mindset and feel good about the fact that they're supporting that are okay with spending money to get what they want even tho they very well kno that they could easily get it for free.
There aren't enough people like this around and its a shame.
A plus side to the fact that people use p2p networking is that names get out there and artists are discovered. Also the fact that users like to create viruses and spread them using p2p programs. So hopefully when a users computer crashes because of said viruses, the users will learn their lesson and stop the downloading, and go out to buy the tracks of their "newfound artist's" themselves. Thats what I did. I'm just lucky I had the music buying epiphany before something deadly happened to my CPU. |
| Meph751 |
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
I'm off to take a big dump. Will post pictures of my escapades later.
Discuss!
*waits patiently* |
| Xanergy |
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
I'm off to take a big dump. Will post pictures of my escapades later.
Discuss!
Nice. |
| Samination |
quote:
Originally posted by Xanergy:
I agree with DJ Samination. I'd prefer to pay the artist direct. I'd feel good about supporting them and they'd feel good that I went direct to them for the sounds.
The thing about p2p users is, at least in my case, I never knew where else I could find the good tracks. I'd bought a few CD's from my local store and they turned out to be crap. It was then I decided not to buy stuff thats not good, and just get music for free thats only "possibly" junk. If it is, I don't waste money, if not, then I scored a free song that kicks ass. I started getting into it so I decided to make a transition where I'd search artists and when I found that their music is good, I'd go out to buy their CD's for the main purpose of support. Now, I never use the p2p programs and purchase all of my music. Legally.
The problems remain tho. I'm sure some people followed the same path as me but odds are, majority of them would rather get everything for free than go out and spend their money. I mean who wouldn't? But its the people that have the right mindset and feel good about the fact that they're supporting that are okay with spending money to get what they want even tho they very well kno that they could easily get it for free.
There aren't enough people like this around and its a shame.
A plus side to the fact that people use p2p networking is that names get out there and artists are discovered. Also the fact that users like to create viruses and spread them using p2p programs. So hopefully when a users computer crashes because of said viruses, the users will learn their lesson and stop the downloading, and go out to buy the tracks of their "newfound artist's" themselves. Thats what I did. I'm just lucky I had the music buying epiphany before something deadly happened to my CPU.
That would only work if the users are completely off when it comes to Computers and Internet.... wait SLSK users are utterly useless since they dont understand how to get DCpp working ^^
|
| kathryn |
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
I'm off to take a big dump. Will post pictures of my escapades later.
Discuss!
Hope its some good shit Kev |
| Samination |
can I ripp that shit`? |
| kathryn |
quote:
Originally posted by DjSamination:
can I ripp that shit`?
Dig that shit |
| lionhart_3001 |
thats what u get for releasing the same songs again and again. why would anyone buy a cd full of songs they already have in a different order. |
| SixFeet |
It was a false alarm. There I was primed, readied to unleash the fury but I got stage fright!
I will keep you updated on my toilet escapades. |
| kathryn |
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
It was a false alarm. There I was primed, readied to unleash the fury but I got stage fright!
I will keep you updated on my toilet escapades.
Will be thinking of you Kev at this akward time |
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