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T O P I C R E V I E W
Gazza1712
So Darren styles released a mixtape on his SoundCloud a couple of weeks ago and whilst there is still a few hardcore tracks on the mix the rest don't resemble the hardcore sound, gammer has also been making music that isn't really hardcore and breeze has been doing it for years now,making his own stuff and playing anything by Darren styles..
Anyway whilst this sound that they are now pushing isn't my cup of tea they are just making what they are feeling. Styles are breeze are both in there 40s and gammer is early thirties ( I myself am 36 ) but still love the elements that made happy hardcore all them years ago like build ups breakdowns pianos and vocals maybe they have grown out of the hardcore sound?
, and I see a lot of debate about this sound that these guys are making, and I think the problem lies with the promoters who are putting on hardcore events like slammin ravers htid etc etc continuing to book these guys, it seems like styles and gammer target audience is now the American market ( they have just done a tour of America )
It's an interesting topic of debate isn't it, why book a dj who isn't playing hardcore for a hardcore event? Just because of there name.
Do you think promoters should think about this? Or does it show they just want to make money from each event and don't actually care about the future of hardcore?
Guest
the problem is down to it being soft, since 2000 drum & bass and dubstep ruled the world and bass is what people like, which is one of the reason hardcore took over, and mainstream which has all the same elements of old skool hardcore
wong
How dare you disrespect happy hardcore
Guest
uk hardcore is disrespecting, hardcore is original happy hardcore that carried on in 1996
then drum & bass took over and sy and vibes invented uk hardcore, while hardcore carried on
Guest
need to rock some ramos and druid, for the other half
trippnface
honestly; everytime Gammer posts; I have to refrain from calling him a jackass piece of shit
arpz
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
honestly; everytime Gammer posts; I have to refrain from calling him a jackass piece of shit
Yeah me too, he comes across so badly. Obviously some of his fans think it's hilarious but it's just pathetic really. The psuedo-modesty and shit attempts at irony are fully cringeworthy, it's annoying, I think he'd be really likable if he dropped all the shit
wong
I honestly think he calls it happy hardcore to piss the likes of us off rather than to appeal to the Aus/US audience
djDMS
I like how he sees those of us who genuinely love(d) the music as haters for not following him blindly down whichever route he fancies taking the scene down this week.
Would love to think he was doing it for the wider scene, but no, it's for him and him alone.
Happy Hardcore my arse!
trippnface
maybe I am a bit butt hurt ( YUP ) but come the **** on!
seriously ?
" If you'd have told me Happy Hardcore could sell out a show in LA, id have never believed it "
...... Where to start....
it has happened... it does happen.. and it will happen again... no ****ing thanks to him though? .. sure could have... if he actually had put in any effort to be a part of the " happy hardcore scene " in the last 5 + years.
or maybe the fact; that less than 1/10 of anything they played was happy hardcore?
Or maybe how; everytime he posts some dumb shit like this; hundreds of uneducated ravers start mixing up genres and generally ruining perceptions of what different sounds are worth and why? and in America; that is the LAST thing the ACTUAL happy hardcore scene needs.
oh well. Pretty sure he gunna move over here soon and become a part of Murica. he just can't get enough of the absolute worst aspects.
Win for you guys!
bet money 85% of the people in that room have zero idea what the **** happy hardcore is
skankineddie666
Hello! Haven't posted here in a LONG TIME... Anyways I just recently (Thursday) got the opportunity to watch Gammer & Styles in Phoenix on their US tour. I have to say it was amazing but yes it was not what I expected. First of all they didn't play any classics (I don't remember I was pretty buzzed) probably the oldest tune they dropped was satelite by DS. Also gammer kept dropping his infamous Kayne pop/cover songs. It was a good show don't get me wrong but I agree that it shouldn't have been labeled happy hardcore. It sucks that the new generation of ravers will have a misconception of what happy hardcore is/was. It's funny this topic came up cause that same day I had a little experiment with a friend of mine. I put on club land xtreme hardcore 3 DS mix on our way to the show since he's never heard DS. Once we left the show my friend said to me and i quote "dude the music you played in the car was nothing like what we just saw. I felt like I was at a knife party set" regardless what genre they are I agree that they shouldnt be labeling them self for what they aren't anymore.
Samination
Well Rock today still has the same name as Rock (n Roll) 50 years ago, and they don't sound that similar.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by skankineddie666:
Hello! Haven't posted here in a LONG TIME... Anyways I just recently (Thursday) got the opportunity to watch Gammer & Styles in Phoenix on their US tour. I have to say it was amazing but yes it was not what I expected. First of all they didn't play any classics (I don't remember I was pretty buzzed) probably the oldest tune they dropped was satelite by DS. Also gammer kept dropping his infamous Kayne pop/cover songs. It was a good show don't get me wrong but I agree that it shouldn't have been labeled happy hardcore. It sucks that the new generation of ravers will have a misconception of what happy hardcore is/was. It's funny this topic came up cause that same day I had a little experiment with a friend of mine. I put on club land xtreme hardcore 3 DS mix on our way to the show since he's never heard DS. Once we left the show my friend said to me and i quote "dude the music you played in the car was nothing like what we just saw. I felt like I was at a knife party set" regardless what genre they are I agree that they shouldnt be labeling them self for what they aren't anymore.
*drops mic*
trippnface
my buddy showed my a little chat with breeze; and basically my buddy was being super respectful and sayinf we miss some breeze sounds and asked what breeze was up too. my buddy asked said he should do some collabs with some other hardcore labels and this was literally his response
" Why? I have my own label ".
What massive; absolutely; massive; egotisical sold out ****s. Can't stand the scene that made them famous; can't stand the music that made them famous; can't stand the fans that made them famous; but yet they want to abuse the whole lot; to push their current dogshit.
Really makes you feel for CDJay and anybody still tryinng to piece this cluster**** together. What a sad headache.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
Well Rock today still has the same name as Rock (n Roll) 50 years ago, and they don't sound that similar.
This is a great point. With some of the same problem.
You ask hippies if rock today sounds like rock then; they will laugh and say turn that shit off.
Things evolve. 50 years is quite a span of time.
Compared to hardcore; which has been around since the 90's ; hardcore evolved or changed way faster!
You could have watched the scene birthed; then shift direction massively ; all under 10 years.
rock stayed moderately the same for 20 years plus.
Still a generalization though; and serious people would classify modern rock as modern rock; to distinguish between classic rock. and if abunch of old hippies paid for a classic rock show; and got abunch of creed and green day; you bet your ass they would be furious.
Basically; if Gammer and Styles had even the slightest amount of respect for hardcore; they would have put waaaaaay more effort into making properly labels
wong
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
" Why? I have my own label ".
Doesnt surprise me one bit, the blokes a bellend. And a KIK perv ...
ViolonC
Not sure what you guys are wining about. The British side of Hardcore never had an original spark since you started calling it UK Hardcore ripping other genres off one by one. Guest is right (ffs that i have to say this): innovation moved to D&B and back to the Netherlands with a few exceptions.
Now american EDM has taken over the dance scene worldwide but you guys are still baffled that UK Hardcore is hard to market outside of the UK. US culture doesn't have this strong "one event one genre" culture that Europe does so from people who get them sets and productions are more diverse.
While in the UK producers rip off Hardstyle as the "newest" thing and make it into UKHC. It's not bad but certainly nothing original.
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that. Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing? Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway? Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
</rant>
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Not sure what you guys are wining about. The British side of Hardcore never had an original spark since you started calling it UK Hardcore ripping other genres off one by one. Guest is right (ffs that i have to say this): innovation moved to D&B and back to the Netherlands with a few exceptions.
Now american EDM has taken over the dance scene worldwide but you guys are still baffled that UK Hardcore is hard to market outside of the UK. US culture doesn't have this strong "one event one genre" culture that Europe does so from people who get them sets and productions are more diverse.
While in the UK producers rip off Hardstyle as the "newest" thing and make it into UKHC. It's not bad but certainly nothing original.
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that. Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing? Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway? Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
</rant>
i feel alot of what you said; but for me alot of it comes down to really getting sick of having to explain to an endless sea of uneducated ravers ( literally educated in propaganda by Gammer) that trap music is NOT ****ing happy hardcore.
Why can't he just stop?
He is not helping anything or anybody; except maybe confusing and embarassing raver noobs; that will eventually be properly educated. Then it is like finding out someone you look up to lied to you!!
What then Gamz!?!!
One day; all the trap zombies will turn on you?
then; will the hardcore elite you have forsaken choose to raise your humbled being from the ashes of abject failure; in a pure act of unconditonal love!?!?
We will see.
But in the meantime; trap and " EDM" is already dying in the USA; DNB is still going stupid strong; and Psytrance/ trance are the most popular of all. the festie " EDM" kids are very fickle. they change with the wind. Gammer is chasing hype. hype that will be dead; as the fickle dicks become placid once more; and chase the next big thing ( psytrance)
oh no. looks like i am not the only on who gets pissed for paying to hear A CERTAIN TYPE OF MUSIC; and they play something ****ing else entirely.
# deserved it
Samination
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Not sure what you guys are wining about. The British side of Hardcore never had an original spark since you started calling it UK Hardcore ripping other genres off one by one. Guest is right (ffs that i have to say this): innovation moved to D&B and back to the Netherlands with a few exceptions.
Now american EDM has taken over the dance scene worldwide but you guys are still baffled that UK Hardcore is hard to market outside of the UK. US culture doesn't have this strong "one event one genre" culture that Europe does so from people who get them sets and productions are more diverse.
While in the UK producers rip off Hardstyle as the "newest" thing and make it into UKHC. It's not bad but certainly nothing original.
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that. Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing? Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway? Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
</rant>
rafftery, is that you? :P
Anyways, a few years ago Hardstyle (which isn't Hardstyle if you ask purists) took elements that UK Hardcore had used years before that, so whos' copying who actually? :P
latininxtc
Totally missed them when they were here on Thursday. Was busy packing. Even if I wasn't I probably wouldn't have gone anyways. Saw footage of their event here and good to see that they had a decent crowd. They added a stop in Dallas, which is about 4hrs from Houston and a lot of those folks were already planning the drive from there to here.
Smoogie
Well Styles, Breeze and Gammer where big a few years ago now so I doubt they would want to make the exactly the same stuff as they where making back in 2005!
I will have to give some of these 'new' styles of Hardcore a listen some time but at this precise moment I am just listening to Hard House which has developed it's own sound against the old stuff without going too far off the mar:
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by Alexbturbo:
Come on, own up. Who threw a bottle at him
oh no. looks like i am not the only on who gets pissed for paying to hear A CERTAIN TYPE OF MUSIC; and they play something ****ing else entirely.
# deserved it
Sounds like your stuck in the past and need to move with the times. If you got into hardcore in the 2000s, it was never real hardcore in the first place. Is just a rippoff of trance riffs sped up at 170bpm. So now when the genre is evolving again your complaining that it is not real? Dude your hardcore was never real. Proper traditional hardcore is labels like Hectic, Fusion, Impact Records, Just Another Label. So unless you were into hardcore at this time, you basically have no reason to complain.
So many hardcore names are getting influence from edm/dubstep/trap/hardstyle/electo and hiphop. Why do you want to only pick on just Gammer?
At the end of the day most hardcore djs have well and truly moved on from Ian Van Dahl remixes. Darren Styles, Mark Breeze, Alex Prospect, Dougal, Clarkey, Klubfiller, Mob, Gammer, Chris Unknown, Iyf, Macks Wolf, Recon. Are all pushing the newer sounds and doing it very well.
And at the end of the day, these djs are still getting crowds dancing with their evolved sounds. So looks like your in the minority with your complaining.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Alexbturbo:
Come on, own up. Who threw a bottle at him
-- Anyway, this thread has got me like a kid in a candy store. I don't even know where to start.
Sure, I'm a hater but Gammer doesn't have to make it so fucking easy.
Elliott
First thing's first: I should probably listen to this shit before I dismiss it as shit.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by wong:
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
" Why? I have my own label ".
Doesnt surprise me one bit, the blokes a bellend. And a KIK perv ...
Story time
Impulse_Response
Hi Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
EDIT: Changed wording to clarify that my post is a statement to Rafferty rather than a statement about him.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
To Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
Exactly. "Shut up and enjoy it" is Gammer logic.
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
Hi Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
EDIT: Changed wording to clarify that my post is a statement to Rafferty rather than a statement about him.
Trance riffs are over used. Like do you really want to keep rehashing the same old shit for another 15 years. Is way too stale.
It kind of amuses me how Scott Brown calls his label evolution records when he has not evolved in 15 years. Still signing the same old Hard Trance sound at hardcore speed.
All I can say is thank fark for all the hardcore produces that are making fresh sounding hardcore with influences from edm & hardstyle. Because rehashing Trance from over a decade ago is just insulting peoples intelligence and won't bring the scene any new fans.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
Hi Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
EDIT: Changed wording to clarify that my post is a statement to Rafferty rather than a statement about him.
Trance riffs are over used. Like do you really want to keep rehashing the same old shit for another 15 years. Is way too stale.
It kind of amuses me how Scott Brown calls his label evolution records when he has not evolved in 15 years. Still signing the same old Hard Trance sound at hardcore speed.
All I can say is thank fark for all the hardcore produces that are making fresh sounding hardcore with influences from edm & hardstyle. Because rehashing Trance from over a decade ago is just insulting peoples intelligence and won't bring the scene any new fans.
Hardcore's most popular era in the UK outside of the '90s was when it was at its cheesiest and tranciest. In case you haven't noticed, the new sound isn't exactly winning fans here. The net movement of fans in and out of the scene has heavily favoured the "out" direction ever since the big guys started ****ing around with the sound.
Maybe sacrificing the UK in pursuit of the US is considered a worthy tradeoff by Gammer, Styles and co but let's not pretend that it isn't what it is. Event attendance, music sales and online interest are objectively at their lowest point since probably the turn of the century. Whatever it is that was supposed to happen hasn't happened. The "plan", if there was one, has failed -- at least in the UK.
The funny thing is that everyone followed the big boys down this road when it's practically suicidal for all but the top tier. Who's getting the bookings in the US? It sure as hell isn't your average producer. They helped sabotage the UK scene in a naive hunt for a piece of a pie that's never going to materialise.
I can't answer for anyone else but, yeah, I'd have liked it if they'd carried on "rehashing the same old shit". Also get your timeframes right. The golden era of hardcore wasn't anything close to 15 years long. It was about half that, maybe. There was plenty of change and evolution during the '00s as well. It wasn't as drastic as the transition between happy hardcore and UK hardcore but still obvious to anyone who knows the era.
Don't even get me started on the Scott Brown comment. So it's not enough for you that 95% of the old guard are now producing this hollow EDM trainwreck? Are we not allowed to have any artists still producing our preferred style? It just seems like an odd thing to bitch about. I would've thought diversity would be welcomed and, if anything, your lot should be feeling pretty happy right now. You already won. No need to take away our scraps.
ViolonC
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
rafftery, is that you? :P
Anyways, a few years ago Hardstyle (which isn't Hardstyle if you ask purists) took elements that UK Hardcore had used years before that, so whos' copying who actually? :P
Okay, now i get it. :D
Anyway i'm pretty sure for 3 out of 4 of those elements i'll find you the gerne that had used them even before Hardcore.
CDJay
It's the third rebirth, and it's an alignment.
We're a year or so away from the hoorah, but it won't involve two year old Edm noises as a major theme.
Reclaim Pride. The signs are there.
CDJay
djDMS
I've said it a thousand times before - there is nothing at all wrong with progression and change, but that doesn't have to mean copying the latest fad and expecting everybody else to follow in order to stay relevant.
Rehashing the same old shit?
Or
Rehashing somebody else's old shit?
I know which I'd choose.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
rafftery, is that you? :P
Anyways, a few years ago Hardstyle (which isn't Hardstyle if you ask purists) took elements that UK Hardcore had used years before that, so whos' copying who actually? :P
Okay, now i get it. :D
Anyway i'm pretty sure for 3 out of 4 of those elements i'll find you the gerne that had used them even before Hardcore.
Nobody cares. We weren't wanking ourselves off over masterful transitions between time signatures or inspired uses of the Balinese pentatonic scale. We were too busy buzzing to music we actually enjoyed. Nobody gave a shit where it came from.
Although I actually agree with Sam's point regarding hardstyle, my entire point is who the **** cares?
Impulse_Response
I keep seeing the comments about UK artists "selling out" to pursue the US market, and it makes me curious - is the EDM sound more popular here than in the UK or elsewhere?
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
I keep seeing the comments about UK artists "selling out" to pursue the US market, and it makes me curious - is the EDM sound more popular here than in the UK or elsewhere?
The way that we use the term "EDM" on this forum is kind of a misnomer (perhaps because the term has never really caught on in the UK and is openly mocked by DNB and grime MCs). We're referring to quite a specific sound. "Echoey" big room kicks, clean bass sounds and weak, whiny, "monolayer" leads with a lot of portamento or tape-stop style effects on them. At least 90% of the hardcore you'll see people on here complaining about conforms to that archetype.
I can only speak for my area (and it does vary quite a lot in the UK) but we're not overly enamoured with that sound. Nonetheless, it is the predominant style in mainstream dance music right now and that applies pretty much everywhere. When it comes to the most commercial stuff, trends tend to be cross-Atlantic to a fairly large extent (although Europe has an even higher internal concordance).
I think it's more a case that the US has shown signs of being more receptive to the style of hardcore currently being pushed. People are seeing the likes of Gammer and Styles get booked at big US festivals and they're seeing the opportunity for a "clean break" from the baggage of the UK scene where things have been in freefall for many years. Like it or not, half a dozen people decide the musical direction of the entire scene and those people couldn't figure out how to reinvigorate the UK scene. Their answer seems to be to attempt to cross over to the US with a concomitant change in musical direction, which, as usual, has propagated down through the scene hierarchy resulting in hardcore maintaining its uniformity (ironically that which many of its current proponents profess to despise).
Whether hardcore sounds like it does because it started to (allegedly) take off in the US or whether the US is becoming more receptive to hardcore because it sounds like it does now is a classic chicken-and-egg question. I don't think there's a simple answer. It seems to be a feedback loop coming from the very top: Gammer and Styles produce tune X -> tune X is well-received in the US and leads to festival bookings -> everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and starts to produce their own tune Xs -> Gammer and Styles get lots of bookings -> Gammer and Styles produce tune X2 (note that at no point in this cycle or sequence does anyone except the huge names really benefit from any of this).
ViolonC
quote:Originally posted by Elliott:
Nobody cares. We weren't wanking ourselves off over masterful transitions between time signatures or inspired uses of the Balinese pentatonic scale. We were too busy buzzing to music we actually enjoyed. Nobody gave a shit where it came from.
Although I actually agree with Sam's point regarding hardstyle, my entire point is who the **** cares?
You at least enough to write a reply. And some ppl here have been complaining that it's EDM that's been ripped off as the newest development. Apparently they care, too. Because it's the only thing: care what to rip off next. ;)
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
...and expecting everybody else to follow in order to stay relevant.
This is the real cancer of the hardcore scene. There never seems to be room for more than one major style. A lot of people wouldn't be complaining if we still had a healthy selection of trancey, supersaw-driven hardcore.
Nobody will ever convince me that everyone gave up that style of their own volition. Too many people held on for too long. I've spoken to several artists (probably broadly considered somewhere in the middle of the pack) who stopped producing hardcore because they felt that continuing with their favoured sound was a dead end.
It's a subtle system of peer pressure and outright dictatorship that determines the dominant style rather than any real artistic preference (except for perhaps the chosen few) or democratic choice and that's a sad state of affairs. Rising through the ranks in hardcore is just a function of how prepared you are to compromise your artistic integrity and conform to the norm.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that.
Legit
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing?
You're giving us far too much credit. We're just a dozen forum obsessives: the hardcore of the hardcore hardcore. Nothing we say about anything actually matters (well, except that time Gammer wasted a solid hour of his time making a diss track aimed at me -- but that says far more about him than me).
What's the point of having a discussion forum if not to have these kinds of debates? Sure, they come up ad nauseum but I'd say it's actually a welcome relief from the never-ending soap opera that is the hardcore scene. If I wanted to splatter Gammer's Pigface with my cum, I'd join the bukkake hivemind on Soundcloud. To each their own.
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway?
That's a leading question but even if we accept the implicit proposition, hardcore is thieving its way around the world right now.
Devalue hardcore? Maybe. A lot of people are rightly pissed off that they've chosen to piggyback off the "happy hardcore" label with music that neither resembles "happy" nor particularly "hardcore". To some people, this will be the only "happy hardcore" they ever know and some of us don't want this current crop to be considered a representation of our beloved genre.
There was a great post about genres earlier. I forgot who made it. The original Woodstock crowd probably feel very much the same way as we do about what passes for "rock" music these days.
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
Both. Although the way you've expressed the latter sentiment makes us sound rather pathetic. I already addressed the former.
Gammer has been very disparaging about '00s hardcore, including even his own work in that period, over the last few years. In a response to me, he stopped just short of saying "my old music was shit and you're an idiot if you liked it" (honestly, I'm barely paraphrasing here).
He doesn't have to "love us" anymore but I think that any successful person or business owes a basic level of respect to the people who put them where they are and, generally speaking, that would include not calling beloved products shit and labelling us neanderthals for having bought them.
Anyone who was a fan of Gammer in the '00s (and I'm not ashamed to say that he was one of my musical idols back then) and has kept up with proceedings recognise that he seems to want to pretend that the '00s never happened. Mystifying at best; insulting at worst.
It's a shame that he underwent a personality transplant and/or lobotomy sometime in about 2012. He went from being this geeky kid - like a lot of us - who just loved playing around with sounds and faders to an overly-opinionated, conceited, sarcastic hipster ******* (and I'm definitely not in the minority in thinking that he's changed a whole lot, even if I express it in harsh terms). I can't imagine '00s Gammer telling his own fans to love his new shit or go **** themselves. I guess, though, that this was just his underlying personality all along. Sometimes it takes fame and an endless supply of e-sycophants to bring out one's true character.
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
This is just disingenuous. Yes, there are half a dozen semi-prolific (and oft-struggling) labels still trying to keep the happier sounds alive. Their stuff constitutes no more than a few percent of the overall scene output and an utterly negligible percentage when weighted by importance. There was more diversity when the scene was split into supersaw anthems and what was commonly - and incorrectly - referred to as dubcore. If this music was easy to find or plentiful, I wouldn't be having this conversation and I certainly would've have my own thread on here dedicated to finding it.
Sure, new artists could fill the vacuum but for well-known reasons that I've already gone into in this thread, they're unlikely to do so. A handful of people are still doing it for the love of the game, like I was, but few of us got close to the requisite production standards, which is actually why I personally gave up -- I got sick of not being able to make my tracks sound as good as I wanted them. Anyway, hobbyists can only achieve so much and hobbyists are all the hope we have for the future.
Samination
Elliott: The Golden Era is jsut a reference to a specific time period, not when it was selling the most. In comics, the Golden age is around the 30-40 (or earlier?), but I wouldn't be suprised if comics sold the best around 90-2000.
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
Elliott: The Golden Era is jsut a reference to a specific time period, not when it was selling the most. In comics, the Golden age is around the 30-40 (or earlier?), but I wouldn't be suprised if comics sold the best around 90-2000.
I didn't mean to imply that equivalence. My idea of hardcore's golden era, which is obviously subjective anyway, just happens to have a large overlap with when it was most commercially successful.
Edit: Outside of the '90s of course.
Doc Mcfly
My problem with new UK Hardcore is that its been turned into sped up electro house. Its not UK Hardcore anymore. Its EDM crap. In my opinion the 1992-2008 era was the best of Hardcore. Soaring supersaws, fat kick drums, gorgeous piano riffs, groovy breakbeats, deep beautiful pads, massive string synths, etc. Now its all just wub wub and bloop bloop.
Smoogie
quote:Originally posted by Doc Mcfly:
My problem with new UK Hardcore is that its been turned into sped up electro house. Its not UK Hardcore anymore. Its EDM crap. In my opinion the 1992-2008 era was the best of Hardcore. Soaring supersaws, fat kick drums, gorgeous piano riffs, groovy breakbeats, deep beautiful pads, massive string synths, etc. Now its all just wub wub and bloop bloop.
Hardcore has always been 'sped up' something though.
We had sped up pop music, IE Happy Hardcore, sped up Trance, IE Raverbaby and now sped up Electro?
Also there is/ was Freeform which is/was sped up Hard House, dare I say it!
Samination
Well Freeform did have a little bit of it's own identity back in the early 2000 to mid 2000
Bring Me Round To Love
I always check out Gammers new tracks, the red drink party one, not sure if its for real or just him takin the piss, horrible sound alease to my ears.
djDMS
I actually liked Red drink foam party
Samination
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
I actually liked Red drink foam party
I can't read this for some reason? Could you copy and paste what it says please? When I click the link it just says unavailable.
trippnface
the homie : " he was really good before happy trapcore. that's what we are calling it now. **** people calling it new hardcore "
whiny bitch : back when i was " good" i drove myself into clinical depression for fear of upsetting people like you"
aw shit; must be the reason he blows off and never helped push or do anything productive with the rest of the actual hardcore scene these last years too.
Samination
Gammer being Gammer I see. The Whiny ****s are probably a reference to happyhardcore.com
Elliott
Gammer is the gift that never stops giving. First, he gave us years of fantastic music. Now, he gives us funny discussions on HH.com.
If he really did become depressed because of people like us, I'd suggest that he needs to harden the **** up. I don't even say that in a harsh or mean-spirited way. If avoiding criticism causes you that much distress then you have a serious problem that actually needs addressing. People don't survive in the real world without being able to handle criticism. I used to get worse off my managers in a ****ing supermarket when I was 15 and I couldn't press the "ignore" button on them.
iggyk23
A guy goes to a comic convention, his favorite artist is a bit rude to him and he makes a youtube video about how the bad old man was rude to him, this is the world we live in today.
Such people would get eaten alive in the world of the old.
I remember steve angello saying f u to people that dont like his music. It was on twitter.
Now thats not very mature is it. Even if you dont like his music doesnt mean you dont respect his success so...
Sulphurik
What a track.
Sulphurik
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
the homie : " he was really good before happy trapcore. that's what we are calling it now. **** people calling it new hardcore "
whiny bitch : back when i was " good" i drove myself into clinical depression for fear of upsetting people like you"
aw shit; must be the reason he blows off and never helped push or do anything productive with the rest of the actual hardcore scene these last years too.
Take a listen to this and you might change your mind! Love the sound of bassline at start
Name me some of the "so called happy trapcore" tracks you say Gammer has done.
Any word of any new Hixxy tracks?
Sulphurik
I know there has been some crap "trap core"/ EDM style songs from Gammer with collabs with Dougal and Darren Styles from last couple of years with most of them wasn't familar with.
Here's some Gammer tracks have liked the sound
Gammer & Whizzkid - Love you everyday. Bit different but sounds ok, don't think enough to buy it.
Gammer - Burn you tonight
D&G - Make it if we try
Darren Styles - Sun is rising sounds great.
Sulphurik
Just found this, Redux version of love you everyday, sounds awful.
One of the only newer style tracks I have heard that has stood out for me is one called guiding me home and it's by stu infinity and outforce, I can't find a clip of it on its own anywhere but I first heard it at the clubland / ravers weekender and loved it, its in the below mix at 54 minutes, for the most part though newer hardcore all sounds crazy repetitive and bores me really.
I don't see the problem with that Gammer remix, quite like the drop and the switch up of styles. What is it specifically you don't like about it? Be a bit more constructive with your criticism
Elliott
quote:Originally posted by Rodz90:
I don't see the problem with that Gammer remix, quite like the drop and the switch up of styles. What is it specifically you don't like about it? Be a bit more constructive with your criticism
It used to be good and now it is bad.
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by Rodz90:
I don't see the problem with that Gammer remix, quite like the drop and the switch up of styles. What is it specifically you don't like about it? Be a bit more constructive with your criticism
Usually I'd agree with the principal of that statement. However, in this case I think an exception is warranted. No in depth analysis required, that is quite simply a shite tune and particularly shite when compared with Gammer tracks of the past. Nothing remotely enjoyable about it.
martinj1985
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Rodz90:
I don't see the problem with that Gammer remix, quite like the drop and the switch up of styles. What is it specifically you don't like about it? Be a bit more constructive with your criticism
Usually I'd agree with the principal of that statement. However, in this case I think an exception is warranted. No in depth analysis required, that is quite simply a shite tune and particularly shite when compared with Gammer tracks of the past. Nothing remotely enjoyable about it.
this! i totally agree what you say!
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by martinj1985:
that is awful!
it's ****ing trash. just like every other pile of absolute utter shit he vomits out his ass .
Rodz90
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Rodz90:
I don't see the problem with that Gammer remix, quite like the drop and the switch up of styles. What is it specifically you don't like about it? Be a bit more constructive with your criticism
Usually I'd agree with the principal of that statement. However, in this case I think an exception is warranted. No in depth analysis required, that is quite simply a shite tune and particularly shite when compared with Gammer tracks of the past. Nothing remotely enjoyable about it.
Fair enough then, maybe my taste in music is pretty bad or getting worse :(
Elipton
There's nothing wrong with trying new stuff, but it surely has to be balanced with tracks that apply to the trend to keep him relevant.
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what Gammer takes to shows to play now to impress the crowd at Hardcore events. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?
Samination
I would've been more offended if he had labeled it as Hardcore, but it seems like he didn't so I won't complain since it's nothing I listen to.
HARRIBO
there is decent music out there away from the styles/gammer love in!
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
I would've been more offended if he had labeled it as Hardcore, but it seems like he didn't so I won't complain since it's nothing I listen to.
you can bet your ass he will play it during a "hardcore" set; though.
thank God during blu the roof he had not quite yet reached the peak level of patheticness he currently operates at. i would have been WAY to ashamed and embarassed to show that to anybody and call it " happy hardcore" . stil was a shit set though. Al storm & M project ftw.
Sulphurik
I quite like the first 50 seconds of Go Bezerk remix. It has an old skool breakbeat influence and quite like sound of the riff but then after that breakdown it goes downhill quickly. Wasn't the way I would have expected it to have gone.
trippnface
"Last year I stopped trying to please everyone else and focused on pleasing myself
Now I'm traveling the globe and spreading my happiness to others
Thank you to everyone supporting me on my new journey "
"More than a few years ago; I stopped trying to please; even though I had already been traveling the Globe; and spreading my happiness to others. " FIXED.
Well anyways; his he throwing in the towel for his " hardcore" !?!!?
We can only hope so. The amount of people confusing hardcore for shitty trap music will go WAAAY DOWN. What an absolute blessing.
The drunken scotsman
Gammer hasn't made anything approaching decent in about 2 years now. If he wants to make that kind of music then all the best to him but I certainly won't be listening to it, not that he'll give a flying **** about that.
Fishy
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
quote:Originally posted by martinj1985:
that is awful!
it's ****ing trash. just like every other pile of absolute utter shit he vomits out his ass .
Wow cool track :D:D
ViolonC
Can you fukcs please rent a room and get if over with?
Thad dude hasn't been releasing any HHC tune like a year along but you still think he is obliged to. Let it go and wonder why Ganar just moved on to do Bounce tunes.
skarr
maybe he should release an 'album' and charge onefiddy for it? oi bloody oi!!!!!!! instead of making music he actually likes and NOT RIPPING PEOPLE OFF, cause that's what hardcore is all about nowadays, banging out 10 tracks of complete SHITE and charging the average Joe half a weeks wage for it. But Gammer is in the wrong for not ripping people off and actually doing ok out of it?
Vladel
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Can you fukcs please rent a room and get if over with?
Thad dude hasn't been releasing any HHC tune like a year along but you still think he is obliged to. Let it go and wonder why Ganar just moved on to do Bounce tunes.
Ganar didn?t help himself slagging off Hixxy.
trippnface
lol WOOOOW ok my last comment there is prtty harsh. God damn. I def need to chill out a little bit.
Though in my defense. I listened to that track again; and nodded in complete approval of my comment; regardless of its brash dickishness. I still feel validated ;)
Though I will try to be less ofr a dick in the future... sorry.
skarr
quote:Originally posted by trippnface:
"Last year I stopped trying to please everyone else and focused on pleasing myself
Now I'm traveling the globe and spreading my happiness to others
Thank you to everyone supporting me on my new journey "
"More than a few years ago; I stopped trying to please; even though I had already been traveling the Globe; and spreading my happiness to others. " FIXED.
Well anyways; his he throwing in the towel for his " hardcore" !?!!?
We can only hope so. The amount of people confusing hardcore for shitty trap music will go WAAAY DOWN. What an absolute blessing.
the amount of people confusing 'appy 'ardcore with music worth paying onefiddy for 10 tracks of sh it will also hopefully go down, hopefully more so than people that slag off Gammer for not being a snidey sneaky rip off **** like ham was and vibes is going to be? at least Gammer has stood up for himself and has not tried to make an ABSOLUTE CU NT out of hard working Steve from Normaltown. By charging hardworking Steve silly, SILLY amounts of money for 10 mp3s of 'real breakbeats and vocals '
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