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rafferty
Hixxy had a big discussion about this in on his latest Rinse FM show. He seemed to be supportive of slower Hardcore productions and just freedom of speed in Hardcore.
But to me when I hear all that 92 stuff he plays, it doesn't even sound like Hardcore. Is about the speed of House Music.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SO MANY HARDCORE DJS GOING SLOWER? I am not a fan.
Vibes - plays & produces slower 92 style
Slipmatt - plays slower 92 style
Seduction - producing slower 92 style
Billy Bunter - plays 92 style on podcast
Darren Styles - Slower 160bpm
Dougal - slowed his productions to 160 with Minus the crown
Joey Riot - Also slowed his productions down to 160 with Minus the crown.
Hixxy - playing constant slower 160 tracks on his podcast
Mob now Mike Reverie - slower 160
Respect to the guys who are not doing a DARREN STYLES and watering down their sound.
170 crew
Fracus, Darwin, Scott Brown, AL Storm, Nobody, Rob IYF etc
Impulse_Response
Hardstyle is also a lot of garbage though. Not a real comparison here.
Honestly, why do you even hang around this forum? Isn't there a hardstyle or EDM forum that suits your interests more?
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
Hardstyle is also a lot of garbage though. Not a real comparison here.
Honestly, why do you even hang around this forum? Isn't there a hardstyle or EDM forum that suits your interests more?
There is a lot of shit Hardstyle around of course. But I do like the Hardcore Elements of Hardstyle.
So impulse response, your a Hardcore fan. What do you think of Hardcore getting slower and slower? Do you like it or not?
LeVzi
In terms of Hardcore, as in Happy Hardcore / UK Hardcore, it should never be that slow.
I'm not the biggest fan of Hardstyle, but there are some good tracks from it, but I don't like it in the Hardcore we'd hear in this country.
Brisk always played at the speeds I like, especially at Kinetic fast as fk, Mikey B was similar, and Demand, they played a lot quicker, in fact most people played fast as fk there. Apart from Dougal, who was consistently slow. And he wasn't as popular for it.
around 190bpm is decent. People start getting pissy for music that fast, but then its fking hardcore.
I listen to the World of Rave podcast Slipmatt does , it's pretty decent to listen to, good memories, but bores me when live. Last party I went to, Slipmatt played at that speed, was OK, Shades of Rhythym did too, was again nice cos it was nostalgia, but then Sy turned up and played 90's hardcore and I lost the plot, that energy came back n we was off at the races.
MusicILove
I HATE it. It just feels like an attempt to get a bigger following.
They are trying to appeal to the Hardstyle audience to get in at their festivals & events. All about money again.
Hardcore should be played at 170 minimum. I know there are some classic UK Hardcore tracks that are slower. Did you know You?re my angel is 167 BPM but it should be played faster than that. I have always wanted to play faster in my own mixes but it concerns me that people won?t like the faster speed.
Even Hixxy said a few months ago that hardcore is at 170. It?s at 1 minute 24 seconds.
I can instantly tell when something comes on if it?s slower then it instantly gets turned off.
If they want freedom in production then go make something else at that speed don?t call it hardcore!!!! It?s NOT hardcore!!!!
Samination
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Dougal - slowed his productions to 160 with Minus the crown
Joey Riot - Also slowed his productions down to 160 with Minus the crown.
Hixxy - playing slower tracks on his podcast
Hasn't Dougal always played slower? I've heard that most of his 90's Bonkers mixes were below 170
And Joey Riot playing slow? Well maybe when he's with Dougal, but with Destructive Tendencies? I rarely believe they go below 185 there
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by MusicILove:
I HATE it. It just feels like an attempt to get a bigger following.
They are trying to appeal to the Hardstyle audience to get in at their festivals & events. All about money again.
Hardcore should be played at 170 minimum. I know there are some classic UK Hardcore tracks that are slower. Did you know You?re my angel is 167 BPM but it should be played faster than that. I have always wanted to play faster in my own mixes but it concerns me that people won?t like the faster speed.
Even Hixxy said a few months ago that hardcore is at 170. It?s at 1 minute 24 seconds.
I can instantly tell when something comes on if it?s slower then it instantly gets turned off.
If they want freedom in production then go make something else at that speed don?t call it hardcore!!!! It?s NOT hardcore!!!!
Your exactly right. Seems to be more about money than keeping it real.
Every time I listen to Hardcore djs playing this 160 shit I fast forward to the faster tracks or listen to another mix.
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
In terms of Hardcore, as in Happy Hardcore / UK Hardcore, it should never be that slow.
I'm not the biggest fan of Hardstyle, but there are some good tracks from it, but I don't like it in the Hardcore we'd hear in this country.
Brisk always played at the speeds I like, especially at Kinetic fast as fk, Mikey B was similar, and Demand, they played a lot quicker, in fact most people played fast as fk there. Apart from Dougal, who was consistently slow. And he wasn't as popular for it.
around 190bpm is decent. People start getting pissy for music that fast, but then its fking hardcore.
I listen to the World of Rave podcast Slipmatt does , it's pretty decent to listen to, good memories, but bores me when live. Last party I went to, Slipmatt played at that speed, was OK, Shades of Rhythym did too, was again nice cos it was nostalgia, but then Sy turned up and played 90's hardcore and I lost the plot, that energy came back n we was off at the races.
Yeah Brisk has never watered down his Hardcore sets. Slipmatt did play 170 round 2007 and then went back to House speed again.
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Dougal - slowed his productions to 160 with Minus the crown
Joey Riot - Also slowed his productions down to 160 with Minus the crown.
Hixxy - playing slower tracks on his podcast
Hasn't Dougal always played slower? I've heard that most of his 90's Bonkers mixes were below 170
And Joey Riot playing slow? Well maybe when he's with Dougal, but with Destructive Tendencies? I rarely believe they go below 185 there
Yeah Joey Riot plays slower with Minus the crown but not with Dustructive Tendencies.
I think Dougal was about bang on 170 or 168 minimum on Bonkers but never 160 on Bonkers.
Si Thompson
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Hixxy had a big discussion about this in on his latest Rinse FM show. He seemed to be supportive of slower Hardcore productions and just freedom of speed in Hardcore.
But to me when I hear all that 92 stuff he plays, it doesn't even sound like Hardcore. Is about the speed of House Music.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SO MANY HARDCORE DJS GOING SLOWER? I am not a fan.
Vibes - plays & produces slower 92 style
Slipmatt - plays slower 92 style
Seduction - producing slower 92 style
Billy Bunter - plays 92 style on podcast
Darren Styles - Slower 160bpm
Dougal - slowed his productions to 160 with Minus the crown
Joey Riot - Also slowed his productions down to 160 with Minus the crown.
Hixxy - playing slower tracks on his podcast
Mob now Mike Reverie - slower 160
Macks Wolf - slower 160
Respect to the guys who are not doing a DARREN STYLES and watering down their sound.
170 crew
Fracus, Darwin, Scott Brown, AL Storm, Nobody, Rob IYF etc
But... 1992 Breakbeat stuff is Hardcore. It was called Hardcore way before Happy and UK stuff.
I wouldn't even bother mentioning Vibes, Slipmatt & Seduction. They no longer produce UK Hardcore.
As for speeds. 170-175 is fast enough for UK Hardcore IMO.
Si Thompson
As for making UK Hardcore at 160. Well.. That's too slow for me. I make Jungle and Breakbeat stuff at 165.
Triquatra
Some of the stuff on Bonkers 4 was 160-165 tbf
LeVzi
What the tracks were produced at and what they are played are used to be 2 different things.
As I said before, Kinetic, everything was faster, apart from Dougal, who insisted on keeping the slower pace.
I've heard Sy play at Brisk speed, on his own, not b2b with Brisk. In fact I remember one night in Wales, Sy played a mega hard set with a lot of Dutch hardcore at the time, was mad tbh.
Hardcore needs to be fast and needs the energy, otherwise it's simply not hardcore.
As for Riot playing fast not in DT, its a different genre. Has to be fast.
Guest
hardcore is about bass in the car, uk hardcore is about EDM
Si Thompson
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:Hardcore needs to be fast and needs the energy, otherwise it's simply not hardcore.
There are different types of Hardcore. The term Hardcore was about way before the scene split in 1994 to Jungle and Happy.
It doesn't have to be fast to be Hardcore, but Happy and UK Hardcore should be a least 170bpm. I'm guessing that's the point you were trying to make.
Triquatra
Come to think of it, isn't Shooting Star 164 bpm or something.
trippnface
I can deal with old skool breakbeat at 165, because it still contains plentiful elements of sweet female vocals and banging piano riffs. I forget it's slower, because the music is so good.
this current 160 style "hardcore", typically doesn't **** with female vocals or piano that much anymore. it's just the same recycled hard style lead and abunch of uninspired sounds, that makes every track sound the same. I feel that way though about IYF's sound too though, even at 170.
It's not good. Those going to a hardcore show are expecting faster energy, same reason I would go to a dnb show, and not a dubstep show.
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:Hardcore needs to be fast and needs the energy, otherwise it's simply not hardcore.
There are different types of Hardcore. The term Hardcore was about way before the scene split in 1994 to Jungle and Happy.
It doesn't have to be fast to be Hardcore, but Happy and UK Hardcore should be a least 170bpm. I'm guessing that's the point you were trying to make.
I was gonna ask, you seen the name of this forum ? I know what types of hardcore there are. Happy hardcore / UK Hardcore should be played fast.
Well. Be more specific. You said 'Hardcore' should be fast. That's quite a broad statement. I actually guessed that was the point you were trying to make in my last sentence. I was just making sure.
Vladel
Apart from listening to individual tracks, I listen to hardcore at 178-186 BPM.
Sulphurik
So what speed should an average UK hardcore track be? Do you think 165+ bpm?
djDMS
170 minimum for me. Never mix at less than 175.
warped_candykid
I've noticed this trend as well, and I don't see how they're passing it off as "UK Hardcore". I would expect most UK Hardcore to be produced around 168 - 175 bpm. I hope this trend doesn't last and we get things back on track.
LeVzi
maybe it's as hardcore gets more readily accepted in the EDM world if it's slower.
Although Gammer played pretty quick at that american festival ,at least the set I saw, and they seemed to like it.
IZE
i can't believe happy hardcore these days is now associated with hardstyle
hardstyle is suppose to be hardcore with hard trance without all the fluff
how does this sound "happy" at all
LeVzi
Thats just hardstyle, if that started playing at a rave, i'd go home. Fking hate that sound, always have done.
Johnscardy
160bpm doesn't bother me... The fact that it's absolute shit does. Pitch it up to 170 and it will still be shit. You can't polish a turd!
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
170 minimum for me. Never mix at less than 175.
this is law
The drunken scotsman
quote:Originally posted by Johnscardy:
160bpm doesn't bother me... The fact that it's absolute shit does. Pitch it up to 170 and it will still be shit. You can't polish a turd!
Agreed!
carldj90
I just wanna say the 90's had a very unique feeling to that era. Life was different.
The 2000's still held that. We are about to be out of the 2010's and everything in music has a depressing feeling. From the style of cloths to the music we listen to.
So maybe the speed will pick up in 2030.
But maybe nothing has actually changed. From producing at a slower speed I know for a fact it has helped hard dance. Hardcore? Maybe not so much, but it will return.
When you update an old school sound you get what we have today. It happens to sound better at 160 sometimes.
Besty
quote:Originally posted by MusicILove:
They are trying to appeal to the Hardstyle audience to get in at their festivals & events. All about money again.
Even Hixxy said a few months ago that hardcore is at 170. It?s at 1 minute 24 seconds.
I can instantly tell when something comes on if it?s slower then it instantly gets turned off.
If they want freedom in production then go make something else at that speed don?t call it hardcore!!!! It?s NOT hardcore!!!!
The U.K scene goes through stages like this when DJ's and Producers can't make a living.
We have had DJ's produce and play hard-house and hardstyle in the raves, in the late 90s, when pickings were slim. Trixxy, Vinylgroover, Bunter, Brisk all had a go at hard-house.
Dougal's foray into semi-hardstyle is no different to this, when Showtek changed styles to play at Omnia in Vegas it was definitely a money grab and it was a criticism levelled at people like Dougal when they took UK Hardcore in early 1994 and merged it with Techno so they could increase the crowds.
Not everyone was happy with the Techno-room bods taking over the main-room and many people stopped going to hardcore raves and the scene split.
This is what needs to happen every cycle, some people will be lost, some will be gained.
U.K hardcore can be produced and played at a wide range of BPM's, the DJs and producers are taking a guess at who will be willing to pay to go to events and buy music.
The good news is that eventually, a new sound will emerge, i would expect that if the state of play continues, the acceptance probably is that this generation of DJs are getting older, so are the crowds and their habits.
History has shown that this is a very exciting time for new sounds as generally speaking, the best tunes arrive at the beginning and at the end of a cycle.
Whether that music appeals to you personally is another matter but it will be UK Hardcore, one way or another.
Jacco
Who's afraid of 1 7 8?
Vladel
178 is a good place to start
Entity
May I pimp my recent wares? Forthcoming EP on Brutal Kutz. One is 180, one is 190 and the other is 200. I'm 41 and piffle to this slowing-down bollocks.
Here's a Frenchcore update of Spice.
A love-letter to mid-90's Dutch happycore as I like to call it
And a 200 BPM happy & hard jobbie with Darwin.
Couple of mixdown tweaks needed here and there, but still. Pffffft etc. Rar.
<3
MusicILove
quote:Originally posted by Entity:
piffle to this slowing-down bollocks.
trippnface
quote:Originally posted by Entity:
May I pimp my recent wares? Forthcoming EP on Brutal Kutz. One is 180, one is 190 and the other is 200. I'm 41 and piffle to this slowing-down bollocks.
Here's a Frenchcore update of Spice.
A love-letter to mid-90's Dutch happycore as I like to call it
And a 200 BPM happy & hard jobbie with Darwin.
Couple of mixdown tweaks needed here and there, but still. Pffffft etc. Rar.
<3
lol ,**** yes bro <3
rafferty
quote:Originally posted by Entity:
May I pimp my recent wares? Forthcoming EP on Brutal Kutz. One is 180, one is 190 and the other is 200. I'm 41 and piffle to this slowing-down bollocks.
Here's a Frenchcore update of Spice.
A love-letter to mid-90's Dutch happycore as I like to call it
And a 200 BPM happy & hard jobbie with Darwin.
Couple of mixdown tweaks needed here and there, but still. Pffffft etc. Rar.
<3
Fark Yeah, awesome tunage!! Really well done 👊
Craigavon raver
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Hixxy had a big discussion about this in on his latest Rinse FM show. He seemed to be supportive of slower Hardcore productions and just freedom of speed in Hardcore.
But to me when I hear all that 92 stuff he plays, it doesn't even sound like Hardcore. Is about the speed of House Music.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SO MANY HARDCORE DJS GOING SLOWER? I am not a fan.
Vibes - plays & produces slower 92 style
Slipmatt - plays slower 92 style
Seduction - producing slower 92 style
Billy Bunter - plays 92 style on podcast
Darren Styles - Slower 160bpm
Dougal - slowed his productions to 160 with Minus the crown
Joey Riot - Also slowed his productions down to 160 with Minus the crown.
Hixxy - playing constant slower 160 tracks on his podcast
Mob now Mike Reverie - slower 160
Respect to the guys who are not doing a DARREN STYLES and watering down their sound.
170 crew
Fracus, Darwin, Scott Brown, AL Storm, Nobody, Rob IYF etc
Well if someone is playing or producing 1992 style it's obviously going to be slower, as hardcore was breakbeat at the time and wasn't as fast, but def agree aboutsome of the other stuff, hardcore has to be at least 170 bpm, don't listen to much new hardcore these days, but have heard clips of styles, and a bit of hixxy on rinse fm, and not sure whats going on, remember hearing the start of hixxy set on rinse fm and think I thought "is this hardcore" lol wasn't even sure, does he just play hardcore on rinse fm?
Craigavon raver
Or maybe I should read everything first! just making hardcore at a slower pace, nah has to be faster for me, 170 bpm at least like I already said, and I think i'd have to agree with a few people here and say they've slowed it down to try and appeal to other dance genre followers and to fit in more with other dance genres
LeVzi
The whole raver tots thing is to get younger people and their families into rave music from yesteryear.
the original rave sound is what people seem to promote now, and i'm done with it. I love it, I started raving to it, but the 94 sound is where it's at tbh. Faster breakbeat.
I don't think you can make that sound as popular as it was, but it doesn't harm to bring it to a new generation.
Craigavon raver
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
The whole raver tots thing is to get younger people and their families into rave music from yesteryear.
the original rave sound is what people seem to promote now, and i'm done with it. I love it, I started raving to it, but the 94 sound is where it's at tbh. Faster breakbeat.
I don't think you can make that sound as popular as it was, but it doesn't harm to bring it to a new generation.
Yeah I've seen that raver tots thing before, couldn't really believe it to be fair when i first seen it
Craigavon raver
And back on topic, never mind dj's making and producing slower hardcore these days, you never notice when the same dj's play classic sets from the mid 90's, that they play them (sometimes a good bit slower) than when they first came out, a good example was that ministry of sound cd last year, back to the happy hardcore mixed by dougal b2b hixxy, so slow at times i thought!!! pitch it up ffs, but then again trying to appeal more to other edm followers, and a ministry of sound release, no doubt a coincidence there! Hmmm
MusicILove
quote:Originally posted by Craigavon raver:
And back on topic, never mind dj's making and producing slower hardcore these days, you never notice when the same dj's play classic sets from the mid 90's, that they play them (sometimes a good bit slower) than when they first came out, a good example was that ministry of sound cd last year, back to the happy hardcore mixed by dougal b2b hixxy, so slow at times i thought!!! pitch it up ffs, but then again trying to appeal more to other edm followers, and a ministry of sound release, no doubt a coincidence there! Hmmm
At some points it sounded awful for someone who is used to how it should sound. Why the F did they licence the slow versions of some All Around The World tracks. If baffles me.
warped_candykid
quote:Originally posted by MusicILove:
quote:Originally posted by Craigavon raver:
And back on topic, never mind dj's making and producing slower hardcore these days, you never notice when the same dj's play classic sets from the mid 90's, that they play them (sometimes a good bit slower) than when they first came out, a good example was that ministry of sound cd last year, back to the happy hardcore mixed by dougal b2b hixxy, so slow at times i thought!!! pitch it up ffs, but then again trying to appeal more to other edm followers, and a ministry of sound release, no doubt a coincidence there! Hmmm
At some points it sounded awful for someone who is used to how it should sound. Why the F did they licence the slow versions of some All Around The World tracks. If baffles me.
Aaaand how they cut out some of the best parts of the tracks! I was very displeased with that release.
thedjjudah
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Hixxy had a big discussion about this in on his latest Rinse FM show. He seemed to be supportive of slower Hardcore productions and just freedom of speed in Hardcore.
But to me when I hear all that 92 stuff he plays, it doesn't even sound like Hardcore. Is about the speed of House Music.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SO MANY HARDCORE DJS GOING SLOWER? I am not a fan.
Vibes - plays & produces slower 92 style
Slipmatt - plays slower 92 style
Seduction - producing slower 92 style
Billy Bunter - plays 92 style on podcast
Darren Styles - Slower 160bpm
Dougal - slowed his productions to 160 with Minus the crown
Joey Riot - Also slowed his productions down to 160 with Minus the crown.
Hixxy - playing constant slower 160 tracks on his podcast
Mob now Mike Reverie - slower 160
Respect to the guys who are not doing a DARREN STYLES and watering down their sound.
170 crew
Fracus, Darwin, Scott Brown, AL Storm, Nobody, Rob IYF etc
You forgot the about the whole freeform crew...
Samination
quote:Originally posted by thedjjudah:
You forgot the about the whole freeform crew...
Freeform doesn't exist :P
Hardscape failed and the ones who tried to promote it are barely active any more, so I doubt that's the case with Freeform now
LeVzi
quote:Originally posted by thedjjudah:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Hixxy had a big discussion about this in on his latest Rinse FM show. He seemed to be supportive of slower Hardcore productions and just freedom of speed in Hardcore.
But to me when I hear all that 92 stuff he plays, it doesn't even sound like Hardcore. Is about the speed of House Music.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SO MANY HARDCORE DJS GOING SLOWER? I am not a fan.
Vibes - plays & produces slower 92 style
Slipmatt - plays slower 92 style
Seduction - producing slower 92 style
Billy Bunter - plays 92 style on podcast
Darren Styles - Slower 160bpm
Dougal - slowed his productions to 160 with Minus the crown
Joey Riot - Also slowed his productions down to 160 with Minus the crown.
Hixxy - playing constant slower 160 tracks on his podcast
Mob now Mike Reverie - slower 160
Respect to the guys who are not doing a DARREN STYLES and watering down their sound.
170 crew
Fracus, Darwin, Scott Brown, AL Storm, Nobody, Rob IYF etc
You forgot the about the whole freeform crew...
There's a reason why ......
thedjjudah
I know Nu Energy shut down, but there's still loads of artists on Stamina Records or the HBC. So maybe DJs like Sharkey and S3RL aren't playing anymore, there's still a lot of younger talent playing out. So while I think hardcore might not be that good right now (with everyone slowing down their tracks and copying hardstyle leads), I still think that freeform is pretty good. Of course, this may be because I haven't been to a proper rave in over ten years.
Impulse_Response
I had a hard time finding stuff I liked from Stamina. There were a few good ones, but overall too much grindy growly stuff and always a crushed master.
Dem Retak
quote:Originally posted by Entity:
May I pimp my recent wares? Forthcoming EP on Brutal Kutz. One is 180, one is 190 and the other is 200. I'm 41 and piffle to this slowing-down bollocks.
Here's a Frenchcore update of Spice.
A love-letter to mid-90's Dutch happycore as I like to call it
And a 200 BPM happy & hard jobbie with Darwin.
Couple of mixdown tweaks needed here and there, but still. Pffffft etc. Rar.
<3
Here comes the dreamer sounds dope af!!
Dem Retak
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by thedjjudah:
You forgot the about the whole freeform crew...
Freeform doesn't exist :P
Hardscape failed and the ones who tried to promote it are barely active any more, so I doubt that's the case with Freeform now
What are you talking about? Tons of labels and new tracks, events, podcasts. There's a lot going on in the freeform scene. Coming from a freeform dj and soon to be producer. Hell, we are even pushing the freeform scene here in Estonia!
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