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Traffic Cone
Starting Member
United Kingdom
16 posts
Joined: Oct, 2003
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 Posted - 2006/01/16 : 20:06:03
No, I wouldn't say bouncy techno is happy hardcore either.
It was a big influence on happy hardcore...it changed it's direction, sure. By about 97, happy hardcore had taken elements of bouncy techno and there weren't really any people making bouncy techno any more...
But look at it this way, bouncy techno's been around since 93, and until about 96 was wildly different from happy hardcore. Happy hardcore was breakbeat-based, and happy, with pianos being a key part of the music. Bouncy techno had more emphasis on hoovers and stabs, and usually didn't have any breakbeats. It was also usually faster. If anything, it was closer to gabba than happy hardcore - it was far more popular in Holland than it was in England. As Holland became more influenced by the happy stuff (mainly due to the size of the scene growing and the push towards commercialism), the happy English stuff became closer to the Dutch and Scottish sounds.
The best way to put it really is that bouncy techno is halfway between gabba and happy hardcore, probably a little closer to gabba really. As happy hardcore developed, some elements of bouncy techno were added to it - eg, the tougher kicks. And as bouncy techno ran out of ideas, happy hardcore got more popular (at this time the Dutch hardcore was going in the opposite direction, as people got fed up of commercial happy stuff). There weren't even really any truly bouncy techno labels in England (excluding the North East) - the odd bit on Diehard, Dance Paradox and Sonic Boom being about as close as it got.
Hope that makes it a bit clearer ;)
If you want a first bouncy techno tune, by the way, I'd state early classics of the genre (from 93) as any of: Genetic - Violator, Lord of Hardcore - Go Berzerk, Bass Reaction - Technophobia, Bass X - Atomic, Rythmic State - No DS Allowed, Dance Overdose - Overdose Stomp, Bass Generator - The Event...an English tune that was pretty close, too, would be Panic by Force Mass Motion. Same kinda vibe - lots of stabs and the emphasis on kicks, not breaks.
But i guess the first full stop would be Bass X - Hardcore Disco.
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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/01/16 : 20:23:09
quote:
Originally posted by Traffic Cone:
If you want a first bouncy techno tune, by the way, I'd state early classics of the genre (from 93) as any of: Genetic - Violator, Lord of Hardcore - Go Berzerk, Bass Reaction - Technophobia, Bass X - Atomic, Rythmic State - No DS Allowed, Dance Overdose - Overdose Stomp, Bass Generator - The Event...an English tune that was pretty close, too, would be Panic by Force Mass Motion. Same kinda vibe - lots of stabs and the emphasis on kicks, not breaks.
But i guess the first full stop would be Bass X - Hardcore Disco.
Top tunes there mate dont no a couple of them so will check them out, dunno if you'll remember me i met you at the last raindance i think it was. Didnt speak for long was just saying hello to paul zykotic but you defo no your stuff on the old days.
Take it easy mate
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tonyology
Starting Member
United Kingdom
1 post
Joined: Dec, 2005
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 03:46:34
This is defo a topic i'm interested in.
Gonna do some research too.
Lets keep it going
1st post btw, yup another newbie, (we still using that word?)
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Brian K
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United States
8,663 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
528 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 04:34:50
bouncy techno was mostly the scotts and the dutch...more so the scotts. the dutch vibe was more of a gabberhouse while the scotts stuck more with to techno.
some main record labels for the stuff were bass generator, evolution, twisted vinyl, screwdriver, shoop, dwarf, baby boom.
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silver
Admin
Japan
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 08:03:17
I would argue that bouncy techno is just happyhardcore or a genre that never actually made it out of happyhardcore even if it tried to in 1995.... but for the sake of getting things moving I wont argue the point...
I like the direction this is heading, had a few thought riding my motorbike home yesterday.
To help us identify genres, we should actually define what exactly defines a happyhardcore track:
I would say as a base, a 4/4 beat with tinny piano and or high pitch syth.
We should also define the first happyhardcore tracks, Toytown, SMD?
Thoughts?
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ryg0r
Advanced Member
Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
34 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 10:31:37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_trance
What the hell is up with that?!
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silver
Admin
Japan
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 10:50:56
quote:
Originally posted by ryg0r:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_trance
What the hell is up with that?!
Stay on subject please, but that page is a current description of the "raver baby" or trancey hardcore style of hardcore which doesn't have a name at the moment but I don't recommend the name "hardcore trance" and really that page should be deleted.
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ferocious
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United Kingdom
74 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 11:48:11
quote:
We should also define the first happyhardcore tracks, Toytown, SMD?
Well SMD is from the "Breakbeat Hardcore" lineage from around 1993. There's stuff like complex breakbeats and Jungle deep basslines. It doesn't really fit into the definition above.
Toytown arrived a few years later something that evolved as DJ Vibes described and sounds more along the lines you mention of what most would define as a Happy Hardcore track.
Without trying to keep going back to the same thing again, stuff like Celebration and React/Amnesia came out before this. There's magazine reviews calling these Bouncy Techno by that term in 1992. These are the building blocks to this different lineage of music. Surelly if it's just the same - it radically changes the entire complexion of this then?
quote:
I would argue that bouncy techno is just happyhardcore or a genre that never actually made it out of happyhardcore even if it tried to in 1995.... but for the sake of getting things moving I wont argue the point...
Fair enough. It only makes the entire thing very complex if trying to do so, and also conflicts with the printed material on the entire scene from back then. It was pretty much common knowledge back then. It also discredits the two diverse scenes at that time, particually the very patriotic scene in the North.
I'll just add Bouncy Techno never evolved from Happy Hardcore to make it out of Happy Hardcore. Something that may be hard to grasp for people looking back at something from 15 years ago.
i) Happy Hardcore & Jungle evolved from "English" Breakbeat Hardcore (South UK)
ii) Bouncy Techno evolved from "Belgium/Italian" Rave Techno (North UK)
You mentioned it in your first post...
"I am suggesting the following sections: - Split of jungle and hardcore"
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ryg0r
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Australia
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 11:51:54
I've suggested that it should be merged with the Happy Hardcore page.
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Chris B
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 17:11:48
quote:
Originally posted by ferocious:
Without trying to keep going back to the same thing again, stuff like Celebration and React/Amnesia came out before this. There's magazine reviews calling these Bouncy Techno by that term in 1992. These are the building blocks to this different lineage of music. Surelly if it's just the same - it radically changes the entire complexion of this then?
quote:
I would argue that bouncy techno is just happyhardcore or a genre that never actually made it out of happyhardcore even if it tried to in 1995.... but for the sake of getting things moving I wont argue the point...
Fair enough. It only makes the entire thing very complex if trying to do so, and also conflicts with the printed material on the entire scene from back then. It was pretty much common knowledge back then. It also discredits the two diverse scenes at that time, particually the very patriotic scene in the North.
I'll just add Bouncy Techno never evolved from Happy Hardcore to make it out of Happy Hardcore. Something that may be hard to grasp for people looking back at something from 15 years ago.
i) Happy Hardcore & Jungle evolved from "English" Breakbeat Hardcore (South UK)
ii) Bouncy Techno evolved from "Belgium/Italian" Rave Techno (North UK)
spot on mate you've explained things very well, it's also true about the patriotic bit i really wouldnt be happy with bouncy techno being made out to be just a sub genre to happy hardcore. Through the interest in north uk, ireland and holland i'd argue bouncy techno was bigger than all happy hardcore ever has been, and a lot of the main principles are totally different. As traffic cone said it's more close to gabba apart from a small phase where there was a happy influence.
Anyway sorry to keep digging up the old points i just really agree with that post, and anyone curious about bouncy techno should listen to him.
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Traffic Cone
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United Kingdom
16 posts
Joined: Oct, 2003
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 19:38:17
the trouble with that definition of happy hardcore, silver, is that for a few years of happy hardcore's history, right up till 95, is that some tracks didn't have a 4/4 beat (as in a strong kick on every beat, before some pedant points out breakbeat is still 4/4 ;)) . EG, Future Primitive, the Zodiac Records stuff, and so on.
Happy hardcore when it first arrived was still quite close to jungle - while it's easy to pick out SMD1, which I think most people would class as the first, there's other tracks around the time like The Slammer, which was on a label that would choose jungle, made by artists that then went on to do jungle...but was pure happy stuff.
And if you identify it with the kicks, then it begs the question what jungle techno stuff like Basement, Sound Entity, Formation etc would count as :)
I think it's fair to say that bouncy techno IS essentially a different style, but it basically merged with happy hardcore, and the two were one and the same by 96. Rather than bouncy techno being something that was a sub-style of happy or something. Cos if you compare The Slammer and Hardcore Disco, they're pretty damn different ;)
It might seem like pointless pedantry to make the distinction, and to be fair it is to a degree. But for the curious, it's good to say exactly how these things develop. Plus if someone's into their old breakbeat happy hardcore, they'd want to know bouncy techno's different before spending money on old Shoop records, say ;)
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Traffic Cone
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 19:43:56
quote:
Top tunes there mate dont no a couple of them so will check them out, dunno if you'll remember me i met you at the last raindance i think it was. Didnt speak for long was just saying hello to paul zykotic but you defo no your stuff on the old days.
Take it easy mate
Oh man, I don't remember that :$ Unless I'd know you by a different name. But then there's a lot I don't remember from the last Raindance, haha. Cheers anyway mate :D
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Chris B
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 20:08:51
quote:
Originally posted by Traffic Cone:
Oh man, I don't remember that :$ Unless I'd know you by a different name. But then there's a lot I don't remember from the last Raindance, haha. Cheers anyway mate :D
aye man is uk's best party in my eyes anyway, i just remember speaking to you cos you dont get many other people from glasgow at the raves this far south. Was only saying hello and everyone was pretty battered by that time, you gonna be at the one in february? If you are i'll pop say alright.
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2006/01/17 : 20:10:38
quote:
Originally posted by silver:
Stay on subject please, but that page is a current description of the "raver baby" or trancey hardcore style of hardcore which doesn't have a name at the moment but I don't recommend the name "hardcore trance" and really that page should be deleted.
UK Hardcore is by far the most used name to describe the new UK Hardcore.
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HardCore Latina
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United States
611 posts
Joined: Sep, 2004
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Posted - 2006/01/21 : 18:00:50
It's not entirely wrong, but it does have some parts where you're like "huh??" They definitely need someone to re-do the page. Nice try, but try again.
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