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Squishy Star
Advanced Member
United States
2,242 posts
Joined: Mar, 2004
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 Posted - 2004/08/03 : 22:44:30
Isn't Bush's brother the govenor of the state of Florida?
Hmm...I wonder why of all states, Florida was the state where there was some sort of problem?
But anyways, read this:
"The Florida Supreme Court properly ruled that under Florida Law, when a voter writes "Al Gore" and circles "Al Gore" the intent is clear. This is a vote for Al Gore. Also, ballots where a voter punched the card but the hole didn't clear completely are votes unless there were partial holes (blocked by chads) for more than one candidate. But when a voter punches Al Gore and Pat Buchanan, it's impossible to tell which one the voters wanted. So that is a ruined vote.
Machines often cannot tell a clear legal vote from an unclear wasted vote. Sometimes the punch cards stick together and the machines cannot read either of them. When disputed ballots could change the apparent outcome, Florida law requires a hand counts. That happened in Florida, and by law there should have been a full, fair hand count. There never was. The US Supreme Court "changed" Florida law by overturning the FL SC ruling.
It gets worse. Pro-Bush Floridians counted all the possible votes for Bush, but Bush sent in the lawyers who sued to block hand counts which might have helped Gore. When it favored Bush, Pro-Bush officials held hand-counts in 6 counties which favored Bush, but if it might favor Gore, the Republicans claimed neither vote should count, which is in violation of the law. That's immoral, dishonest and wrong. It's also wrong to claim Gore tried to block any military votes. Right wingers claim that happened, but it never did. Bush officials threw out Gore votes, not the other way around."
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Edited by - Squishy Star on 2004/08/03 22:46:26 |
pacman
Advanced Member
Australia
1,132 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
190 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/08/04 : 05:44:37
grrr i wish i didn't take so long to get into this! i like this debate, just everyone please keep it objective and not personal!!!
please bear with me while i refute some previous comments made in the thread...
Comet:
quote:
Think of it this way.. you have a kid. He starts breaking stuff in the house and you warn him to stop it or he'll get in trouble. He doesn't listen and it happens once again. What do you do then? You can either just let him off easy again and he'll go back to doing it time after time, or you can discipline him and make him learn his lesson so he won't do it again. That's what I'm talking about. Do you HONESTLY think we would've done better if there was no war? You want us to get pushed around by anyone else that easily? They attacked us.. attacked us with no warning. And most people didn't want war. So... that's like someone attacking your girlfriend/wife and you just standing by to watch. See, people don't think about the big picture.
Your reasoning here is exactly why America thought itself justified and had some international support in attacking Afghanistan (I don't agree with this but that's another matter entirely). Iraq on the other hand was not the person who attacked your girlfriend/wife.
Think about it using your own analogy: a metalhead attacks/murders your wife/girlfriend. So you take retribution on another group of metalheads, without any solid evidence that there is any connection between them and the one that hurt your wife/gf. That is not right. I understand your argument of retaliation and needing to protect yourself, but there was no evidence, and still is no evidence, that Iraq in any way harmed, or could have harmed American civilians or soldiers (before the time of invasion).
quote:
See, we don't know if they tried to work it out or not. That mentallity is skewed to me. Have ever tried that to a bully? You get slugged in the chest and instead of fighting back, you go, "Okay now.. there's no need for fighting. Let's just be friends." They don't stop, they just hit 10x more.
Um, just a small logistical point in your argument. It's open to interpretation, but most of the world sees the USA as the bully in this situation. They have endless amounts more firepower than any terrorist group could ever dream of, and proved it by walking over the Taliban, capturing Saddam Hussein, a highly dangerous and resourceful dictator. How can you say the USA was bullied?
As a percentage of their population, over 30 times the amount of Afghani civilians were killed by US troops on Afghani soil than Americans slain on 09/11/2001. Retribution is one thing. Heavy-handed retaliation is another matter entirely.
Excessive:
quote:
People critisize Bush for the war saying it was for oil. The Man decides to get it from his own country and he is still critisized. You cannot have it both ways. Global warming? Everybody contributes to global warming you cannot pin that one on bush. I am not a fan of bush but he cannot be blamed for everything that goes wrong in the world. You probably have been using oil products for years and never cared whos environment it was destroying until it came a bit closer to home.
you make out like there is no way for him to win in people's minds... there is. Bush could spend far more of his budget on working on new renewable energy sources. Maybe some of the money that he's spending on the missile defence system???
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I find it so sad to hear you guys talking about how we should have respect for George Bush simply because he is President (barely even democratically elected mind you). America has always been such a great country because you COULD question what was going on. It is a very dangerous situation when people can not question those with great amounts of power. Those with the power of George Bush should be under more scrutiny, as they have more powers to abuse. If i had large amounts of power at my fingertips, i would expect people to watch that i stay on track and use my powers correctly.
To those who say that the invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with Oil: Halliburton (yes, what a suprise - Vice Pres Cheney's old company) received a contract for "protecting Iraq's oil fields" against Hussein burning them (a threat that has been used in the past). It is one fact i cannot prove, but it was reported from inside Iraq that oil was taken during this period. Why else would a company capable of extracting oil be in charge of defending an oil field, rather than defense forces???
Many extremely large contracts were handed to American companies to provide services in Iraq needed to 'rebuild' the country.
Look at the 'rebuilding' that the US promised the world it would do in Afghanistan!? The country is in political and infrastructural chaos.
I would like you to even try to convince me, and wait, not only me, but most of the world, on why America's invasion of Iraq was just.
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So when you hear someone say, "never, never shake a baby," you listen because, even though it is funny, it is hard to breathe when a baby is paralyzed to your head
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If Yoda so Smart in Force Is, Why Words in Right Order he Put Not?
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Edited by - pacman on 2004/08/04 06:42:53 |
DJ Affliction
Junior Member
United Kingdom
123 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
149 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/08/04 : 17:58:40
i wudnt say a hate em more dislike coz dnt know all da ins an outs like every1 else(specially da ameriacan population lol.)
john kerry next president!!!!!!
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Everything is random, your probably not ment to read this!!!!!!!!
DJ Affliction
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Everything is random, your probably not ment to read this!!!!!!!!
DJ Affliction
[email protected]
[email protected]
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KinokoBoy
Senior Member
United States
465 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2004/08/04 : 18:16:25
I'm Kinokoboy, and I agree with Pacman!!!
Hardcore will die if it goes Cheezy!!! Keep it Hard and Trancy!!!!
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nrXic
Junior Member
Canada
117 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
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Posted - 2004/08/06 : 20:17:06
quote:
I mean it's totally disrespectful to insult someone in power so badly. I cannot believe how rude everyone has become these days to openly bash someone in such great power. People these days have no respect for anyone.. pisses me off.
So I guess that means we can't diss other World leaders such as Stalin and Hitler? How about Saddam Hussien?
Just because they have power, doesn't mean that they are doing something good and right for the World or for their own nation.
As far as Dubya is concerned, I hate everything he stands for rather than the person himself.
Racist domestic policies (Patriot Act, thousands of Middle Easterners have been arrested for no reason, and held for years in jail with no charge, leaving their families to sell off their homes and are living in poverty in the US), a hypocritical stance on the World (countries like Iraq have to be invaded when they are SUSPECTED of breaking UN resolutions, but it's neighboring countries like Saudi Arabia and Israel can openly violate similar resolutions along with human rights abuses), tolerant of torture by Americans (and just recently the news that Iraqi CHILDREN were RAPED in MANY coalition jails, http://www.sundayherald.com/43796), belongs to a party with many racist attitudes (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=684&e=16&u=/ap/eugenics_candidate), and he is someone who lied to the public, putting Americans at risk to even more terrorism.
A good question would be...what's to like about the Bush Administration?
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^^^Mah Chewnz
"From the mean streets of Calgary, Alberta, Canada!" - Jericho
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http://www.soundclick.com/nrxic
^^^Mah Chewnz
"From the mean streets of Calgary, Alberta, Canada!" - Jericho
http://www.myspace.com/nrxic
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ecstatic_manic_erocdrah
Senior Member
United States
353 posts
Joined: Aug, 2004
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 Posted - 2004/08/06 : 23:27:11
like i said a liberal DICK-TATOR! HA! and he is a money grubbing facist neo nazi F{_}CK! BUT what we can't do anythin about!
WEAPONS OF MASS DELICIOUSNESS
HARDCORE
HYPERACTIVE and PURE HAPPINESS
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[PEACE] IS FREE!
War? You have to pay for that.
--htid_ostid--
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Comet
Advanced Member
United States
1,544 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
745 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/08/07 : 05:17:28
Both you guys. Why are you comparing him to Hitler? He hasn't done nearly anything as bad as Hitler did. "Killing soldiers" doesn't count as an answer. First, they signed up to fight in war. It's not like there was a draft. Second, he didn't kill anyone unlike Hitler where he tortured and killed so many. It's so stupid to call him a nazi when there is nothing that makes him nazi like whatsoever.
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Kriegmann
New Member
Ireland
39 posts
Joined: Aug, 2004
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Posted - 2004/08/07 : 06:54:06
I have nothing against GB as a person but hes not fit to be president of any country let alone the most powerful country in the world. Maybe he should stick to cattlewrangling.
STAMPUUUUUH GVD
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pacman
Advanced Member
Australia
1,132 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
190 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/08/07 : 08:45:04
quote:
Originally posted by Comet:
EDIT: The reason I don't reply to any of your recent statements is because for one reason, I want this topic to die. And two because no matter how much we discuss back and forth, I will never change your opinion and you'll never change mine. So what's the point?
the point is to show that you don't have any response to the arguments that were made. i challenge you to come up with some reasonable answers for what has been said rather than just stating that your opinion will not be changed. the fact that you can't respond shows that your opinion should be changed, just that your too stubborn to allow it.
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So when you hear someone say, "never, never shake a baby," you listen because, even though it is funny, it is hard to breathe when a baby is paralyzed to your head
__________________________________
__________________________________________
If Yoda so Smart in Force Is, Why Words in Right Order he Put Not?
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KinokoBoy
Senior Member
United States
465 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2004/08/08 : 04:38:26
Pacman is a smart fellow!!!
Hardcore will die if it goes Cheezy!!! Keep it Hard and Trancy!!!!
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pacman
Advanced Member
Australia
1,132 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
190 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2004/08/08 : 17:05:41
^^^ the interest wasn't lost because of that. it was lost because one side of the debate realised it couldn't debate any longer and dissapeared.
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So when you hear someone say, "never, never shake a baby," you listen because, even though it is funny, it is hard to breathe when a baby is paralyzed to your head
__________________________________
__________________________________________
If Yoda so Smart in Force Is, Why Words in Right Order he Put Not?
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KinokoBoy
Senior Member
United States
465 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2004/08/08 : 17:31:15
All too true. Comet....convert now or forever be a conservative bastard!!!
Hardcore will die if it goes Cheezy!!! Keep it Hard and Trancy!!!!
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Comet
Advanced Member
United States
1,544 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
745 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2004/08/08 : 22:09:18
Hey, I was never here in the first place to debate. I was pissed off at such extreme statements such as how he's a racist, or how he's a nazi. Hell, I'm not a political activist. I know barely anything about politics because I hate how sad and childish it's become. No one in this world has actual facts about any of this. It's all what kind of media you get it from.
I can't take your challenge as I'm not into politics and don't care to research about it. I just was stating my opinions and defending them. The things that seemed way far fetched. I think it's pretty sad if you care so much about me fighting back. I'm normally not like that. I was just offended at some comments said here.
So yeah, this is my last post in this topic. I don't understand why we can't just be here for the music. Everything has to be ruined by something. I'm here for the music. Not personal issues. I swear next year, I'll stay offline during the election. There's no point in getting myself stressed.
KinokoBoy, please shut up. You're making yourself look worse every post.
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ecstatic_manic_erocdrah
Senior Member
United States
353 posts
Joined: Aug, 2004
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Posted - 2004/08/08 : 22:52:16
ok..YEA I SAID HE WAS A "NAZI"...its a figure of speech. i have facts on him! im not pulling this out of a hat or my a$$. my biggest beef with this
stupid ignorant person is he worries more about WHO THE **** IS GETTING MARRIED IN THIS ****ING NATIOn than he is about "freedom iraq". innocent civilians get killed everyday. He makes all the appearances on tv and speeches but its nothing he like hitler he does THESE PERSAUDING and POWERFUL speeches but its all crap. like i said yes i was the only one to say he is a liberal dictator i hate this bullsh!t and another thing public school education is quite scarce...i should know i till go to skool and its horrible!
all im saying is what comet said was sorta true about its all media yea granted it is medis but alot of this crap george has done to himself his dad was doin the same sh!t back in 1990!
WEAPONS OF MASS DELICIOUSNESS
HARDCORE
HYPERACTIVE and PURE HAPPINESS
__________________________________
[PEACE] IS FREE!
War? You have to pay for that.
--htid_ostid--
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KinokoBoy
Senior Member
United States
465 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2004/08/08 : 23:49:31
Comet, I disagree with you that HappyHardcore.com is just about music. Dude, it is very common for people to talk about random issues on the forums. I like the fact that I'm able to converse and listen to people from different countries on a wide range of topics. It helps me get a better perspective on what people are thinking around the world.
Hardcore will die if it goes Cheezy!!! Keep it Hard and Trancy!!!!
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