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SixFeet
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,285 posts
Joined: Jan, 2005
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 Posted - 2008/02/08 : 12:16:33
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
Originally posted by redwingz:
The U.K is decent, its just the government that are crap
Well you could live in the US.....
We're just a miniture US, it's not like we're head and shoulders above them in terms of ethics now is it...
I don't know anything about politics, and personally i think it's a load of bollocks; but i would definately not say we are anything like the US ethically :P
We're certainly not far behind. The only reason the affect of the terror scare campaign doesn't work on the majority of British people is because we have become desensitised to it. We've been having terrorist attacks for hundreds of years. We were quite implicit in forging documents and defying all UN regulation and international laws in invading Iraq the second time.
We along with the US and Australia directly armed, supported and quelled any reporting on General Suharto after his military coup of Indonesia in 1965 and continued to support him till his death in 1998. This man was responsible for an estimated 500,000-1,000,000 in Indonesia alone using Army trained by Australian and British special forces, weapons suuplied by the British, Aircraft and missiles supplied by the British and Intelligence supplied by the US. Not only that but we supported and covered up his illegal invasion and occupation of East Timor where he slaughtered 20% of the population.
We kept all this under wraps as we got part of both Indonesia and East Timor's vast natural resources. Thatcher called Suharto as "One of our very best and most valuable friends". Suharto has been wanted by the UN throughout his regime ruling for corruption of which $15-35,000,000,000 is what he is recorded to have embezzled from the countries and genocide. The CIA described it as one of the worst mass-murders of the 20th century. Of course this was only after they'd backed, funded and supported him and the truth was starting to be leaked towards his death and he became an embarassment. Thatcher and John Major continued to quell reports upon his actions and continually funded with with billions of pounds of military hardware, paid for by the tax payer of which only the elite companies of the country recieved the benefits from.
Also from the first Gulf war there has not been a year were the English haven't bombed Iraq. In 2007 more was spent than any year preceeding the second invasion of Iraq on bombing campaigns but this is no longer reported by the media. The art of journalism has all but died out. No-one no longer investigates what the truth is, they just regurgitate biased reports leaked by the British government and military intelligence pushing their own agendas. They call the 'involvement' of Iraq a 'mistake'. Under UN and international laws Blair and Bush are war criminals but this is never reported.
In the first Gulf war we used depleted uranium in our tank shells. The rise in birth deformities and cancer has risen thousands of times to what they once were because of this. he UK Atomic Energy Authority quoted a theoretical "500,000 potential deaths" in the region following the Gulf war if only 8% of the depleted uranium dust was inhaled. Studies indicated that because of this in Basra 40-48 percent of people will develop cancer. After they did this they put in place economic sanctions they say to "cripple Saddam".
This did nothing of the sort, he already had embezzled billions of dollars, this only served to kill an estimated million innocent civilians that no longer could afford water, electricity, food and hospitals that would no longer recieve essential medical supplies as they were classified "dual use". These included baby food, varities of argicultural equipment, ambulances, heart and cancer drugs amongst others. It was estimated by Amnesty International and UN officials that before the second invasion of Iraq between 1,000,000 and 1,500,000 had died directly and indirectly due to the UK and US, half of which were children. Because of these sanctions within 2 years, 3 appointed people humanitarion co-ordinator in Iraq by the UN with almost 100 years of experience in doing similar roles in the UN quit saying how disgraceful the sanctions forced upon these people were.
Now don't get me wrong I believe Saddam was a dispicable man, however we have supplied and contributed to far worse dictator's than Saddam. Oh wait the US and UK also supplied Saddam with arms, training, intelligence and even chemical weapons when they were at war with Iran. These of which he later used against his own people and used what we supplied him with to kill our own troops. "In 1989, the literacy rate was more than 90 per cent; parents were fined for failing to send their children to school. The phenomenon of street children was unheard of. Iraq had reached a stage where the basic indicators we use to measure the overall wellbeing of human beings, including children, were some of the best in the world. Now it is among the bottom 20 per cent." That was Unicef's senior repreentative in Iraq. None of this is ever reported in the media to the Western world.
I'm not trying to say Saddam was a good man, he was a fascist dictator that needed to be brought to justice. What I'm trying to highlight here is the complete double standard imposed by the Western world and the complicity of the media in it. Saddam had been in power over a decade before the start of the first Gulf War performing these atrocious acts. He only suddenly became a threat when he wanted to stop deporting the majority of the huge oil reserves off to the western world and use them to develop his own country.
The majority of this coming from a country promoting a "War on Terror" where their are more people seeking exile and recieving it wanted by the UN under mass violations of human rights than any other country. Democracy is a sham, the Western world does not care what you do as leader as long as you comply to their demands.
These are just a few examples of which the US and UK have directly and indirectly supported and funded, there have been dozens including the funding and backing of Pol Pot into power who is responsible for the "Cambodian Killing Fields" where millions were executed.
Long post, doubt it will get read!
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2008/02/08 : 12:33:20
quote:
Originally posted by Chris B:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Arace:
well HOW THE HELL DO THEY THINK TIESTO OR KURT OR STYLEZ,GAMMER, NO LEFT TURN OR ANY OR GOOD ARTIST GOT TO WHERE THEY ARE.....
I'm sure it's a question that deeply plays on the mind of your average american citizen.
Heh. :P Living the UK hardcore dream mate.
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reenz
Advanced Member
Australia
928 posts
Joined: Sep, 2005
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Posted - 2008/02/08 : 13:37:29
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Arace:
You ppl have the right idea bout the USA....it sucks arse... but you really don't kno how bad it is till you livee there.... and i do unfortunately... the citizens arrogance disgusts me... i hate my" fellow americans" when i was in the bahamas this october, ppl would ask me where i was from i would use my decent and say i was from Puerto Rico or Italy... it sucks here... When i told m,e family that i was movin here i got the whole speech about, there is no place like the US and, We are the super power of the world , but honestly... i don't give a rats arse wat they say cause they are so caught up in the AMERICAN DREAM.... they flipping tell me i cant make it as a dj or musician in Europe or the UK cause rest of the world doesn't offer the same "benefits" america does... well HOW THE HELL DO THEY THINK TIESTO OR KURT OR STYLEZ,GAMMER, NO LEFT TURN OR ANY OR GOOD ARTIST GOT TO WHERE THEY ARE......HINT HINT, THEY DIDN"T LIVE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE USA really should stand for the UNUNITED STATES OF *******S
from what i could see, the standard of living in australia is sooo much better than the standard of living in america..... the only place i would like to live in america is new york or boston..... i found both cities to have a certain charm.... you know... if someone held a gun to my head :P
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2008/02/08 : 13:37:59
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
Pointless war in the Falklands? Wash your ****ing mouth out. If defending British citizens and soil from invasion isn't reason enough for war then nothing is.
Dont really know much about the war, but didnt they become British citizens after the war?
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,698 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
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Posted - 2008/02/08 : 23:03:24
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
Pointless war in the Falklands? Wash your ****ing mouth out. If defending British citizens and soil from invasion isn't reason enough for war then nothing is.
Explain what right we have to occupy the Falklands? You seem to be mistaking that I'm all for the regime that was ruling Argentina at the time (the coup which saw them come to power was infact subsidised by the CIA) taking control of the islands. I'm saying the Falkland's should belong to the Falkland's people.
Occupy the Islands? The same right we have to occupy London. It's British soil and had been long before Argentina had any claim. Falklands belong to Falklands people? Sounds fair, if you're ignorant of the fact that the Falklands people so desperately wanted to be British, and were willing to risk their lives to stay British. I find the idea that we should abandon them disgusting to be honest, and totally illogical. Calling it a pointless war is an insult to the people who died liberating the Falklanders from a dictatorship.
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SixFeet
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,285 posts
Joined: Jan, 2005
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Posted - 2008/02/09 : 12:26:03
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
Occupy the Islands? The same right we have to occupy London. It's British soil and had been long before Argentina had any claim. Falklands belong to Falklands people? Sounds fair, if you're ignorant of the fact that the Falklands people so desperately wanted to be British, and were willing to risk their lives to stay British. I find the idea that we should abandon them disgusting to be honest, and totally illogical. Calling it a pointless war is an insult to the people who died liberating the Falklanders from a dictatorship.
Comparing a small group of islands half way around the world to our capital city isn't a very even comparison. Just because it's tradition doesn't make it acceptible and just. You think the people of the Falkland's when Argentina attacked thought "Shit, they're attacking our land" or "Shit, the Queen!" They defended themselves and risked their lives to defend their island, not the British empire. The only reason British troops were moved was not for the people of the Falkland's but because of our own agenda. If it was not a British colonial island you think we would have been involved? And calling it pointless is not insulting anyone that fought in it. I'm criticising the reason for going and the people in charge, not the army soldiers that had no say and were simply doing their job.
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,698 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2008/02/10 : 04:00:41
quote:
Originally posted by SixFeet:
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
Occupy the Islands? The same right we have to occupy London. It's British soil and had been long before Argentina had any claim. Falklands belong to Falklands people? Sounds fair, if you're ignorant of the fact that the Falklands people so desperately wanted to be British, and were willing to risk their lives to stay British. I find the idea that we should abandon them disgusting to be honest, and totally illogical. Calling it a pointless war is an insult to the people who died liberating the Falklanders from a dictatorship.
Comparing a small group of islands half way around the world to our capital city isn't a very even comparison. Just because it's tradition doesn't make it acceptible and just. You think the people of the Falkland's when Argentina attacked thought "Shit, they're attacking our land" or "Shit, the Queen!" They defended themselves and risked their lives to defend their island, not the British empire. The only reason British troops were moved was not for the people of the Falkland's but because of our own agenda. If it was not a British colonial island you think we would have been involved? And calling it pointless is not insulting anyone that fought in it. I'm criticising the reason for going and the people in charge, not the army soldiers that had no say and were simply doing their job.
I suggest you learn more on the matter, the Falklanders are immensely proud of being British, they risked their lives to stay British and if offered independence, they wouldn't take it. You question the motives behind the liberation, what exactly do you think they are? What was our secret agenda? And just out of interest, what should we have done?
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