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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,701 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2010/05/05 : 02:11:52
quote:
Originally posted by Smoogie:
Sounds like the UK. Just wait until you get loads of foigners taking your jobs
There are more job vacancies in the UK than there are people out of work.
quote:
and a rise in crime rates when thugs get let out of prison early on 'good behavior'
Because if they'd stayed inside a bit longer it would have made a difference? There's a rise in crime because in order for the deterrent of jail to work people need both something to lose, and the belief that they'll get caught, and many have neither. We need to invest in our kids more, we need prevention, not to keep spending more and more on a non existent cure and end up like America.
quote:
That was the UK in the 2000s. Now were in the 2010s and in 2 days time it will all change!
Of course it will. The idiot majority will vote in the Conservatives who's backward policies will make things 10 times worse and regress the nation by a decade or two. This is the first time an election has actually worried me.
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 02:19:42
Vote for me ;D
I'm running with my party in every known country, except America, where I must pay lots of money to be recognized, and get 103 votes because everyone is one or the other party, and if you're not one of those, you're made fun of, but if you are one of those, the other one of the two will make fun of you anyway. YAY RUN-ON SENTENCE!
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DJ Specimen
Senior Member
United States
350 posts
Joined: Apr, 2010
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 03:35:07
Three cheers for improper grammar!
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DarrenJ
Advanced Member
Australia
2,626 posts
Joined: Jul, 2003
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 14:42:49
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
FFS you know how much cancer costs? tablets alone costs thousands just for a weeks supply, goverment pays 99% of it.
Smokers cost less to the health care system then non smokers, even before taking into account the taxes paid through cigarette tax.
How?
quote:
Smoking causes 20% of all cancers, 21% of all heart disease and costs $12.7 billion a year in health care, lost productivity and other costs (1998).
Its not cheap at all in aus.
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Edited by - DarrenJ on 2010/05/05 14:46:43 |
DJ Specimen
Senior Member
United States
350 posts
Joined: Apr, 2010
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 16:30:29
What country was that statistic from? According to my Biology book: "80% of all cancers are thought to be related to the use of tobacco products"
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 18:02:47
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
How?
Simple statistics, you take a bunch of people and compare how much a non smoker has used health care and how much a smoker has used.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/terveys/200810068379693_tr.shtml
Its basicly our prime minister that quoted a medical research on a seminar. Hes an absolutist non smoker himself. Found an english link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=1
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
Its not cheap at all in aus.
I suppose all non smokers in aus die in their sleep of old age. Here, they die because of diseases, the body slowly falls apart. Its just that smokers do it quicker. Hence the smaller price tag. Were a quarter cheaper, no need for the thanks, its a tough job but somebody has to do it.
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Edited by - whispering on 2010/05/05 18:14:50 |
DarrenJ
Advanced Member
Australia
2,626 posts
Joined: Jul, 2003
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 18:49:30
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
How?
Simple statistics, you take a bunch of people and compare how much a non smoker has used health care and how much a smoker has used.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/terveys/200810068379693_tr.shtml
Its basicly our prime minister that quoted a medical research on a seminar. Hes an absolutist non smoker himself. Found an english link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=1
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
Its not cheap at all in aus.
I suppose all non smokers in aus die in their sleep of old age. Here, they die because of diseases, the body slowly falls apart. Its just that smokers do it quicker. Hence the smaller price tag. Were a quarter cheaper, no need for the thanks, its a tough job but somebody has to do it.
Well ofcourse most country has the issue of pensioners and aging populations. Just pointing out smoking taxes should go towards smoking related treatment, its expensive as hell.
I do think goverment needs something towards obesity like Influx said, Im not sure a tax is the answer, I mean a simple 50dollar tax break if your a member of a gym for the last 12months of the finical year would be a good idea as example.
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DJ Specimen
Senior Member
United States
350 posts
Joined: Apr, 2010
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 18:54:52
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
Well ofcourse most country has the issue of pensioners and aging populations. Just pointing out smoking taxes should go towards smoking related treatment, its expensive as hell.
I do think goverment needs something towards obesity like Influx said, Im not sure a tax is the answer, I mean a simple 50dollar tax break if your a member of a gym for the last 12months of the finical year would be a good idea as example.
In the US food that qualifies as "junk food" has a much higher tax rate. For instance, in Chicago tax on healthy foods is one tenth of normal tax; so if I go to the store and buy a bag of chips, I get taxed 10.25%. If I buy an apple instead, tax is only 1.025%.
However that can only help so much, considering health foods are expensive as **** anyway. I can hardly afford to have them put real wheat in my bread while paying for a college education at the same time.
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 19:57:54
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Specimen:
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
Well ofcourse most country has the issue of pensioners and aging populations. Just pointing out smoking taxes should go towards smoking related treatment, its expensive as hell.
I do think goverment needs something towards obesity like Influx said, Im not sure a tax is the answer, I mean a simple 50dollar tax break if your a member of a gym for the last 12months of the finical year would be a good idea as example.
In the US food that qualifies as "junk food" has a much higher tax rate. For instance, in Chicago tax on healthy foods is one tenth of normal tax; so if I go to the store and buy a bag of chips, I get taxed 10.25%. If I buy an apple instead, tax is only 1.025%.
However that can only help so much, considering health foods are expensive as **** anyway. I can hardly afford to have them put real wheat in my bread while paying for a college education at the same time.
If you think about it, that's actually a good strategy. You can't obviously control how much they charge for things in stores, but taxing less for healthy foods (which is kind of an incentive, if price didn't come into factor) and taxing more for unhealthy foods (which gets more sales for more income through taxes).
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 20:44:18
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
How?
Simple statistics, you take a bunch of people and compare how much a non smoker has used health care and how much a smoker has used.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/terveys/200810068379693_tr.shtml
Its basicly our prime minister that quoted a medical research on a seminar. Hes an absolutist non smoker himself. Found an english link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=1
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
Its not cheap at all in aus.
I suppose all non smokers in aus die in their sleep of old age. Here, they die because of diseases, the body slowly falls apart. Its just that smokers do it quicker. Hence the smaller price tag. Were a quarter cheaper, no need for the thanks, its a tough job but somebody has to do it.
Well ofcourse most country has the issue of pensioners and aging populations. Just pointing out smoking taxes should go towards smoking related treatment, its expensive as hell.
I do think goverment needs something towards obesity like Influx said, Im not sure a tax is the answer, I mean a simple 50dollar tax break if your a member of a gym for the last 12months of the finical year would be a good idea as example.
i just pointed out to you that its not expensive as hell, its actually really cheap. now if you think it should be taxed more so that people would live a healthier and longer life, thats a different issue. But money wise, on the governments point of view, people should smoke more.
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 21:40:01
quote:
Originally posted by TheOneNOnly:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Specimen:
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenJ:
Well ofcourse most country has the issue of pensioners and aging populations. Just pointing out smoking taxes should go towards smoking related treatment, its expensive as hell.
I do think goverment needs something towards obesity like Influx said, Im not sure a tax is the answer, I mean a simple 50dollar tax break if your a member of a gym for the last 12months of the finical year would be a good idea as example.
In the US food that qualifies as "junk food" has a much higher tax rate. For instance, in Chicago tax on healthy foods is one tenth of normal tax; so if I go to the store and buy a bag of chips, I get taxed 10.25%. If I buy an apple instead, tax is only 1.025%.
However that can only help so much, considering health foods are expensive as **** anyway. I can hardly afford to have them put real wheat in my bread while paying for a college education at the same time.
If you think about it, that's actually a good strategy. You can't obviously control how much they charge for things in stores, but taxing less for healthy foods (which is kind of an incentive, if price didn't come into factor) and taxing more for unhealthy foods (which gets more sales for more income through taxes).
hmm that must be in the state of illinois. here in TX you get taxed on things like chips and cokes, pretty much almost all already-made foods. never have we been taxed on things like eggs, milk, water, produce, meats, etc. those are staples, that doesn't mean it's healthier. it's what you do with it that makes it unhealthy.
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DJ Specimen
Senior Member
United States
350 posts
Joined: Apr, 2010
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 22:24:58
I guess each state has different distributions of taxes for different foods lol
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2010/05/05 : 23:37:39
It'ss got nothing to do with them trying to get people to quit.
A spokesperson for the initiative said that they expect 1-2% of smokers in Australia to quit.
17% of Australians smoke. That's about 3, 500, 000 people. They expect ~60,000 to quit.
I don't care which way you slice it, that isn't going to make much of a difference to ANY statistics. EXCEPT, the amount people are spending on cigarettes.
It's a tax grab, plain and simple. If it was a conscientious effort to get people to stop smoking, they'd make it cheaper to quit. Last time i tried to quit i spend ~400 on patches, gum etc etc.
When it's cheaper to smoke than try to quit, what's the point?
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,701 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2010/05/06 : 05:53:03
Consider it stupid tax.
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2010/05/06 : 07:06:16
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
It's a tax grab, plain and simple. If it was a conscientious effort to get people to stop smoking, they'd make it cheaper to quit. Last time i tried to quit i spend ~400 on patches, gum etc etc.
When it's cheaper to smoke than try to quit, what's the point?
If they would care about health here, they would allow electric cig's. But instead they just prohibited selling them because they couldn't decide if its a cig or medicine. You could say goodbye to most serious illnesses that come from smoking if you used it. Nicotine although highly addictive, isn't that harmful to the body.
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