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DJseaking
Average Member
Canada
242 posts
Joined: Jul, 2010
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 Posted - 2010/10/13 : 03:03:03
-4,-4
I pay to much attention to politics
But i do love a good quiz
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2010/10/13 : 06:03:08
http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-5.38&soc=-1.28
hope this link works. if not, i'll upload a pic
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Dante
Advanced Member
Vatican City State (Holy See)
1,185 posts
Joined: Dec, 2009
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Posted - 2010/10/13 : 11:37:34
Dunno what libertarian is, I'm guessing pretty much the same as liberal? If so I'll probably be down there somewhere, cba taking the test atm :p
Also, what are the differences between socialism and communism anyway, apart from communism being a dictatorship and its followers being up for armed revolution, aka killing people to grasp power? Is communism just an extreme form of socialism?
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2010/10/13 : 18:27:49
Libertarianism is the advocacy of individual liberty, especially freedom of thought and action.
Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.
Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless society structured upon communal ownership of the means of production and the end of wage labour and private property. The exact definition of communism varies and it is commonly used interchangeably with socialism, however, communist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the way to communism.
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atomsk
Advanced Member
United States
1,660 posts
Joined: Jan, 2009
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Posted - 2010/10/13 : 23:30:09
Yep, not sure what that really means...
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,698 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2010/10/14 : 09:25:56
quote:
Originally posted by Dante:
Dunno what libertarian is, I'm guessing pretty much the same as liberal? If so I'll probably be down there somewhere, cba taking the test atm :p
Also, what are the differences between socialism and communism anyway, apart from communism being a dictatorship and its followers being up for armed revolution, aka killing people to grasp power? Is communism just an extreme form of socialism?
Communism isn't about dictatorship, if anything it's an extreme form of democracy. No nation state (that I know of) has every truly been communist. Soviet Russia, Cuba, China etc. are all communist in name only. Americans seem to get conditioned to some degree to think communism is a bad thing.
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/10/14 : 12:03:19
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
quote:
Originally posted by Dante:
Dunno what libertarian is, I'm guessing pretty much the same as liberal? If so I'll probably be down there somewhere, cba taking the test atm :p
Also, what are the differences between socialism and communism anyway, apart from communism being a dictatorship and its followers being up for armed revolution, aka killing people to grasp power? Is communism just an extreme form of socialism?
Communism isn't about dictatorship, if anything it's an extreme form of democracy. No nation state (that I know of) has every truly been communist. Soviet Russia, Cuba, China etc. are all communist in name only. Americans seem to get conditioned to some degree to think communism is a bad thing.
You can thank the Cold War for that. Propaganda filled the minds of generations that because the Soviet Union is "Communism", and Cuba is "Communism" THEY ARE EVIL! Because, obviously, one nation who says they're communism and does something bad means all nations who say they are communism are bad. Obvious is obvious.
Communism =/= Dictatorships, Genocides, etc. Those are the people behind it who where in a country that called themselves Communist, not the actual Communist theory itself.
Just like Fascism =/= Nazi's. Nazism was just an extreme form of Fascism that took it to another level beyond and decided to mass murder innocent people under a false accusation. The basis of Fascism has nothing to do with basic Nazi beliefs.
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.
Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless society structured upon communal ownership of the means of production and the end of wage labour and private property. The exact definition of communism varies and it is commonly used interchangeably with socialism, however, communist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the way to communism.
I thought I would just try to clear this up as best I could, because this looks like copy-la-paste.
Socialism, as he said above, is just a "stage" of Communism laid about by Karl Marx (who, mind you, wasn't the person to create Communism; he just publicized it when he joined the 'revolution') where all business is still privately owned by individuals, and is not controlled by the government, though they may all still be government owned fully or partially.
Communism, on the other hand, is where a class-less society it formed. Where there aren't people who are top paid executives making $400 million a day for sitting on their ass, and the people who work in the factories all day to make the products and do the real work barely make above minimum wage.
See, nobody in a "true" Communist system would ever get paid. As Karl Marx put it "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"; simply put really is what each person could submit to society, meaning what type of word they can do best, they would put in and in return they would get what they need to survive. No one ever makes a "wage", everyone would get what they needed to survive (all "paid" for by the government, as the governmental body would distribute everything between everyone as fit).
To get to a true Communist state, Marx laid out the epochs to which society would go through:
First: Primitive Communism
Second: Slave Society
Third: Feudalism
Fourth: Capitalism
Fifth: Socialism
Six: Communism
I suggest you read The Communist Manifesto, and Das Kapital (Capital, Volumes 1-3) I own all of them, plus other works done by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.
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Edited by - TheOneNOnly on 2010/10/14 12:06:18 |
Dante
Advanced Member
Vatican City State (Holy See)
1,185 posts
Joined: Dec, 2009
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Posted - 2010/10/14 : 14:23:22
Doesn't sound too good to me, I think people should have a chance to do what they want, instead of being forced into a particular labour by the government :p Also, executives who make $400 million usually have worked their asses off to build their empire from nothing, so if they want to relax a bit when they're doing good, that's their prerogative.
And if USSR, China and Cube aren't communist states, what are they? Fascists?
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2010/10/14 : 17:14:44
quote:
Originally posted by Dante:
Also, executives who make $400 million usually have worked their asses off to build their empire from nothing, so if they want to relax a bit when they're doing good, that's their prerogative.
And if USSR, China and Cube aren't communist states, what are they? Fascists?
unless they inherit that empire. but in reality there are A LOT of ppl out there who make tons of money and do very little, and many of those didn't start from scratch and work their way up.
and yea my definitions were cut & paste lol i didn't put the rest b/c didn't want a hugeass post
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,698 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2010/10/15 : 01:59:38
quote:
Originally posted by Dante:
Doesn't sound too good to me, I think people should have a chance to do what they want, instead of being forced into a particular labour by the government :p Also, executives who make $400 million usually have worked their asses off to build their empire from nothing, so if they want to relax a bit when they're doing good, that's their prerogative.
Yes, but the lifestyle of a billionaire is dependant on the poor below them, just like our lifestlyes in the West are dependant on other countries being poverty stricken shit-holes. Which is worse, some people having a great life with many more a shite one, or everyone having a decent life?
I personally think that some form of communism is where our civilization should be heading, but I don't think it will be viable before materialism is meaningless. In other words, once we get to the point technologically where most of what keeps the world ticking over is automated, and people can pretty much have whatever they like, and money is irrelevant.
quote:
And if USSR, China and Cube aren't communist states, what are they? Fascists?
I'd say there were fairly extreme socialist dictatorships, which Marx predicted was a necessary stepping stone between a capitalist society and the implementation of a communist one.
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Edited by - jenks on 2010/10/15 11:23:24 |
TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/10/15 : 18:44:53
quote:
quote:
And if USSR, China and Cube aren't communist states, what are they? Fascists?
I'd say there were fairly extreme socialist dictatorships, which Marx predicted was a necessary stepping stone between a capitalist society and the implementation of a communist one.
Neither are Socialist because both had planned economies, and everything was state owned. Socialism is the complete opposite of it.
While Cuba and the USSR both have Communist-style economics, they weren't truly "Communist", if you understand what I mean. Money was still a value there, and there can't be any real Communism unless there entire world is Communist in nature, where money means nothing. Which was the case for neither, and both had oppressive dictatorships that pretty much goes against everything Communism is.
quote:
Originally posted by Dante:
Doesn't sound too good to me, I think people should have a chance to do what they want, instead of being forced into a particular labour by the government :p Also, executives who make $400 million usually have worked their asses off to build their empire from nothing, so if they want to relax a bit when they're doing good, that's their prerogative.
And if USSR, China and Cube aren't communist states, what are they? Fascists?
The big guys are nothing without the little man in business, don't agree the people actually doing the hard work should be paid more then bare minimum wages then? It's hard to make it to the top when the guys already on top keep pushing you down more. It isn't always about working ass off as much as it is knowing the right people, and being a good talker in my opinion.
And no, I don't think you know what Fascism is, either.
Fascism is really the belief in a very strong central government, with a collective identity, and believing acting on war is a way to keep your country afloat. A lot of people misinterpret collective identity as racism, which it can be, but that isn't always the case. It's just bringing everyone in the country under one banner, we are all American, Russian, Canadian go us! Fascism started in Italy, and really follows the belief of Corporatism. Which groups of classes are brought together in a whole to make functioning class types, meaning there are still different types of working classes, but it's not everybody against everybody. Fascists see everyone as whole community, not individual people, and this plays into their politics and laws naturally.
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Edited by - TheOneNOnly on 2010/10/15 18:45:53 |
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