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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
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 Posted - 2010/10/07 : 16:35:20
quote:
Originally posted by simdog:
i saw something in the paper the other day about google offering a 20 million dollar prize if you land a robot on the moon and have it travel a certain distance, i don't know all the details but the basic idea is to motivate the development of new technology to make it cheaper to get to and from the moon so we can start doing stuff up there. this is something i read about a week ago while hungover so i don't remember 100% but were multiple teams/companies/whatever from all around the world that have started building, i think the deadline for the 20mil was 2012 then it goes down to 15mil
most people will opt for the easier option of standing on stage for x-factor :(
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simdog
Senior Member
Sweden
457 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2010/10/07 : 16:58:29
all of the prototypes i saw in the newspaper cost more than the potential prize money. the main prize is winning. my guess is they put the 20mil prize on it to get people to develop new cheaper technology rather than to inspire people to build rockets in their backyards to try and get rich....
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Audio Warfare
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,047 posts
Joined: Mar, 2009
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Posted - 2010/10/07 : 17:20:26
quote:
Originally posted by simdog:
the main prize is winning
& a big advertising campaign if a company/company sponsored team wins. ;)
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DJ Specimen
Senior Member
United States
350 posts
Joined: Apr, 2010
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Posted - 2010/10/07 : 18:18:35
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
people on the moon, you must have missed that bit - everybody knows unmanned mission happen here and there.
I know there is an international space station (everyone knows) - that is very different to the effort i'm refering to.
it being "cool" was never a reason i gave for it.
someone will have to remind me to spell things out for speciman, he always seems to forget how to read correctly ;)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070603234456AAsRhew
12 Americans have set foot on the moon, some of them more than once. I don't recall any unmanned missions to the moon (by NASA, I know the USSR blindly fired some robots that smashed on the surface just so they could be the first ones to litter on another galactic body), that's fairly ridiculous. The only reason we send unmanned missions to mars is because not many astronauts are fond of the idea of a one way ticket on an 8 month trip to mars w, let alone to possibility of waiting up to 2 years for the planets to align before you can take off. Even if they were, packing enough supplies (medication, exercise equipment for prolonged exposure to cosmic radiation, food, water, water recycling equipment, all the other crap that accommodates human life) would take up (off the top of my head) 3 times as much fuel, and a bit more time because of the slower speed. However this isn't about mars, it's about the useless rock ambling about leisurely just a few hundred miles away.
Let's consider the possibility of using the moon as a port of sorts to get to other planets. The mass of the moon is close to 7.4e22 kg. The average space shuttle has a mass of 2.05e6 kg. Gravity on the moon is about 1/6 times gravity on the earth. That makes it about 1.67 m/s^2. The average space shuttle's engine and two boosters provide 1.66e6 J of thrust. The escape velocity of the moon 2380 m/s.
I'll finish that when I get back from class...
Also, my name is specimEn, don't mock my reading skills, mr. tryguta.
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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/10/07 : 18:51:52
yep - bit a misfire there - what i meant by that was that there are many unmanned missions into space etc etc.
why you're farting on about using a moon as a port i'm not sure, though i would love to see where you're going with that - I rate your knowledge on the subject (subject being, going back to the moon for whatever reasons sake) far higher than i would..say...NASA..
it's ok, we'll just leave you in the mid-west when we fly off to find Pandora, and you can go explore Canton, much more fun i'm sure! ;)
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2010/10/07 18:55:35 |
DJ Specimen
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United States
350 posts
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Posted - 2010/10/07 : 21:24:19
What I was getting at is that numerous shuttles taking off from the moon would actually move the moon in space. For instance when you jump, leaving the earth, you move it an infinitesimally small amount in the other direction. Now imagine that with masses within 15 orders of magnitude of each other rather than 100 orders.
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Dante
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Vatican City State (Holy See)
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Posted - 2010/10/07 : 23:32:50
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
Mars hasnt got an atmosphere so telescopes more powerful than the hubble could be used.
Yes it does.
Doesn't matter since Hubble is in orbit outside of the earth's atmosphere :p
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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 07:57:21
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Specimen:
What I was getting at is that numerous shuttles taking off from the moon would actually move the moon in space. For instance when you jump, leaving the earth, you move it an infinitesimally small amount in the other direction. Now imagine that with masses within 15 orders of magnitude of each other rather than 100 orders.
lol muppet.
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Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 14:39:33
quote:
Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
technically yes, but apparently it has only 10 tonnes of atmosphere... and even thats always being blown away by 'solar winds'.
dunno about the mass, but at it's thickest is only about 1 kPa, where Earth's is 100kPa. So yeh, slight difference.
quote:
Originally posted by simdog:
i saw something in the paper the other day about google offering a 20 million dollar prize if you land a robot on the moon and have it travel a certain distance, i don't know all the details but the basic idea is to motivate the development of new technology to make it cheaper to get to and from the moon so we can start doing stuff up there. this is something i read about a week ago while hungover so i don't remember 100% but were multiple teams/companies/whatever from all around the world that have started building, i think the deadline for the 20mil was 2012 then it goes down to 15mil
That would be epic. It would only cost, like, 100 mill to make it happen.
quote:
Originally posted by Fire Shadow:
Just think where we'll be in another 100 years.
Still right here on Earth mate. Until it takes less than several hundred lifetimes to reach the next star (wont happen) this is where we are staying. The only way space travel vehicles can work is by exhaust thrust. Which requires a finite amount of fuel. Nuclear reactors can't drive them unfortunately, so until we can turn nothing into something, we are staying right here.
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Specimen:
What I was getting at is that numerous shuttles taking off from the moon would actually move the moon in space. For instance when you jump, leaving the earth, you move it an infinitesimally small amount in the other direction. Now imagine that with masses within 15 orders of magnitude of each other rather than 100 orders.
lol muppet.
He's actually right. However, all that will affect is the moons distance to earth. Ie. how long it takes to orbit the earth, the run of the tides, and just about everything that require the moon. The way to counteract that is to have the rockets leaving from points evenly spread over the moon.
All that he seems to have forgotten is that
a) it's ROCKETS that do the moon voyages, space shuttles are exactly that - shuttles to space stations, not the moon
b) The lower mass and gravity of the moon mean the rockets only require a minuscule amount of energy to escape the moon when compared to escaping earth. This means less fuel required to leave the moon which means less mass required on the rocket to hold the fuel which means less fuel required to leave the moon, which means... etc.
Not forgetting the inspection process that each rocket must undertake between each launch. Pretty much stripped down to bare bones and rebuilt.
Oh and the fact that there is no air on the moon, that's a pretty major point.
Or cheese.
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Edited by - Lilley on 2010/10/08 14:42:26 |
Triquatra
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 14:42:43
oh i wasnt saying he was necessarily wrong - i was just calling him a muppet.
dont think he's taking earths gravitational pull into account either.
plus the koreans have already thought about all of this, their spacecraft dont use the same "rocket" propulsion that the rest of us are used to.
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 14:46:16
quote:
Originally posted by Dante:
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
Mars hasnt got an atmosphere so telescopes more powerful than the hubble could be used.
Yes it does.
Doesn't matter since Hubble is in orbit outside of the earth's atmosphere :p
wtf does that have to do with anything? for the record, hubble was a pretty strong telescope anyway.
These dots in the pic? They are all galaxies. This was the photo taken from a three day exposure on a black spot of space the size of a pin head.
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 14:53:44
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
dont think he's taking earths gravitational pull into account either.
or orbital motion and momentum. The moon wont be going anywhere.
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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 16:00:52
its hard to grasp that that just just a pin-hole size of space...pretty epic tbh
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 16:22:03
yeh it was the cover of a national geographic back in the 80's or 90's i think. pretty fricken awesome.
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whispering
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Finland
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Posted - 2010/10/08 : 17:52:52
TBH, i havent been keeping tabs on this issue on a while, but didnt they try to design a moonbase which they could use as a stepstone to a manned mission to mars? A gas station type of thing, bed and breakfast or something like that.
ISS is a multinational effort, and it'll soon be finished. Also didnt Obama set goals for Nasa that they start preparing a manned flight to mars? Which many opposed mind you.
Also to those who oppose these type of things. Loads of stuff has been invented because of scape agencies. We need to move forward. Always. Personally i dont think theres anything more important then to better our understanding on the universe.
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