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rafferty
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: Feb, 2012
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 Posted - 2014/11/15 : 07:39:36
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:
Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-)
Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible
Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity.
The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced.
The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube.
Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020.
Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business.
Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition.
Jcore is probably the worst form of hardcore there is. Hardcore might have gained new fans with its anime and candy but it probably lost twice that number at the same time in Europe.
Hardstyle has pretty much incorporated all the original aspects of Hardcore apart from the speed. And look what has happened, Hardstyle is now head and shoulders the biggest Hard dance genre and has djs in the top 100. People won't ever take Hardcore seriously in the wider dance scene with cringeworthy shite like anime being part of it. Look how well Future World is doing without anime or candy as part of the music.
Okay, that post will need some dissecting.
J-core has become very popular in Japan, meaning there's a scene in Japan and therefore business for UK DJ's. Just recently Gammer's and Scott Brown went out there for an event. In your opinion, it may be the worst for whatever reason, but Shimamura and M-Project are on a number of UK labels such as Lethal Theory, so there's good signs of UK and US fans embracing and enjoying it.
There's no evidence of fans leaving Hardcore or stopping listening to it as result of anime's presence. It bears little influence on conventional releases or events, and is simply an extension of what there already is. People have left Hardcore because they've outgrown it. Hardcore in the UK, for the last 5 or 6 years hasn't appealed to young people and they haven't gotten involved. I'd love to see a statistic on the average age of event goers, because I'd say it's rising relentlessly on my experience.
Hardstyle has done well, but it's another type of music altogether. FutureWorld's success is very debatable. Releasing digitally is an easy thing to do, and volume of releases doesn't indicate the volume of sales. Futureworld in my eyes has been slow off the mark. Meanwhile anime themed releases in Japan are abundant. Every year new releases are put to press for seasonal conventions such as M3. Tano*c has a larger array of albums than most UK labels put together. M-Project run a huge amount of albums out of his studio too. There's simply albums everywhere and they are all-round great releases.
Hardcore in the UK is lacking not because of anime, but because it's run out of the easy ideas and won't risk something out of the ordinary. New people need to be reached. If someone with the label and meane doesn't do it, Hardcore as it has been for the last twenty years will wither and stop. Eventually it will be a genre that exists entirely on the Internet with only occasional small raves for the enthusiasts. It's a grim prediction, but where do we really see Hardcore in 10 years? It's natural that people move on and focus on family or careers, so who exactly will take up the reigns as a big promoter or label owner? I'm struggling to see the candidates, and more and more I can only image Hardcore as a genre celebrated through online radio festivals, YouTube and digital releases.
I went off on one there..
I don't think hardcore will end up just on the internet. The sound is evolving and UK hardcore djs are playing some of the smaller rooms at big festival events like Defqon.
Future of Hardcore apart from the occasional club and large scale events is festivals. EDM and Hardstyle are the two big festival sounds at the moment.
You can see alot of producers realising this and taking alot of infuences from these two genres. People like Darren Styles, Klubfiller, Chris Unkown, Recon, Mark Breeze as well as alot of new names too.
Hardcore Reached it peak in 1996, so who knows what can happen with 20 year music cycles. 2016 possibly???
__________________________________
STREETWEAR, GYMWEAR, SPORTSWEAR, HARDCORE.
Candy & anime was just a faze & a total embarrassment that everyone mocks and laughs at now.
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Edited by - rafferty on 2014/11/15 07:44:18 |
RobW
New Member
United States
23 posts
Joined: Jul, 2014
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Posted - 2014/11/21 : 06:23:48
I don't even call it "happy hardcore" I just call it Hardcore.
I think adding the word "Happy" to it makes it sound stupid and not meant to be taken seriously as a style of music.
I can just picture someone asking me what kind of music do I like and I respond with "I like happy hardcore", that they'll just look at me weird and laugh, like wtf?! Happy hardcore?!!
But I do like the music, especially the older breakbeat stuff. Just a stupid name was given to it without too much thought.
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2014/11/21 : 07:31:31
quote:
Originally posted by RobW:
I don't even call it "happy hardcore" I just call it Hardcore.
That's fine and dandy among your personal clique that knows you and knows what you play, but not when you're talking to the electronic music community as a whole. The majority of people around the world will think of gabber hardcore when you just say hardcore. Some won't even recognize UK/happy hardcore because they've never heard of it, it's that much of a niche in some areas. And when they do recognize it, many still call it "happy" hardcore.
quote:
Originally posted by RobW:
I think adding the word "Happy" to it makes it sound stupid and not meant to be taken seriously as a style of music.
But I do like the music, especially the older breakbeat stuff. Just a stupid name was given to it without too much thought.
Your profile says you were born in 1980, making you 34 years old. How long have you been listening to "happy" hardcore? If you listened to the 90s stuff, then "happy" was the correct description and name for the UK/happy hardcore of that time. There were a shit ton of albums, both in the UK, North America and in Europe, that had albums with that very name. Scooter was one, which was a big-name act in Europe that produced a whole happy hardcore album. Remember also Happy2bhardcore by anabolic Frolic, a Canadian? And there wasn't anyone at that time that was a serious fan of the music that didn't call it "happy hardcore."
You can't call today's "happy" hardcore happy anymore because that just is not the direction the music has headed towards, and I don't see it permanently going backwards. It has evolved, for better or worse, into something that doesn't have that cheesy stigma from the 90s. I still like the 90s cheesy style, but I also love today's style from certain labels.
quote:
Originally posted by RobW:
I can just picture someone asking me what kind of music do I like and I respond with "I like happy hardcore", that they'll just look at me weird and laugh, like wtf?! Happy hardcore?!!
If you really liked a certain type of music, then you wouldn't give a shit who thinks what about it. I simply say UK hardcore these days because that's more the proper name for today's stuff.
And seeing as you are an American I do hope that you're not a kandy kid. Because the name of what you listen to should be THE LEAST things you should be embarrassed about.
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Edited by - latininxtc on 2014/11/21 07:40:44 |
Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2014/11/21 : 07:53:42
quote:
Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:
Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
To be fair it only seems to be the Americans who bother with the candy thing. Aye it's cringey as fcuk but so are Americans in general ;-)
Anime and Candy in hardcore should be left as far away from Hardcore as possible
Take away those elements and Hardcore halves in size and popularity.
The anime side of things is heavy in Japan's Hardcore - of course. With it you have great looking albums that always seem to be far more vibrant and detailed than anything the West has produced.
The anime side of things also opens up Hardcore to demographics around the world. Anime fans globally seem to enjoy Hardcore, partially thanks to J-core, but also thanks to promoters on YouTube.
Believe it or not, people listen to the music for the anime artwork. It's a great combination, and it's something that has made jordesuvi, xy4Trance and other similar channels more popular than the non-anime equivalent; Mozz020.
Candy is also prevalent pretty much everywhere. There are still people who enjoy that aspect, and you'll be hard stretched to go to a rave in the UK and not see florescent skirts or socks. Scar rocked the candy attire all the time, and of course Kikwear has grown into quite a successful little business.
Take these aspects away and you look most American fans, you lose most of the reach to non-hardcore fans on YouTube, you lose J-core, and what you're left with is a bunch of raving 40-year-olds with cocaine on their breath. That's pretty much the UK scene anyway, but the anime side of things is a lifeline, and the candy thing is simply tradition.
Jcore is probably the worst form of hardcore there is. Hardcore might have gained new fans with its anime and candy but it probably lost twice that number at the same time in Europe.
Hardstyle has pretty much incorporated all the original aspects of Hardcore apart from the speed. And look what has happened, Hardstyle is now head and shoulders the biggest Hard dance genre and has djs in the top 100. People won't ever take Hardcore seriously in the wider dance scene with cringeworthy shite like anime being part of it. Look how well Future World is doing without anime or candy as part of the music.
Okay, that post will need some dissecting.
J-core has become very popular in Japan, meaning there's a scene in Japan and therefore business for UK DJ's. Just recently Gammer's and Scott Brown went out there for an event. In your opinion, it may be the worst for whatever reason, but Shimamura and M-Project are on a number of UK labels such as Lethal Theory, so there's good signs of UK and US fans embracing and enjoying it.
There's no evidence of fans leaving Hardcore or stopping listening to it as result of anime's presence. It bears little influence on conventional releases or events, and is simply an extension of what there already is. People have left Hardcore because they've outgrown it. Hardcore in the UK, for the last 5 or 6 years hasn't appealed to young people and they haven't gotten involved. I'd love to see a statistic on the average age of event goers, because I'd say it's rising relentlessly on my experience.
Hardstyle has done well, but it's another type of music altogether. FutureWorld's success is very debatable. Releasing digitally is an easy thing to do, and volume of releases doesn't indicate the volume of sales. Futureworld in my eyes has been slow off the mark. Meanwhile anime themed releases in Japan are abundant. Every year new releases are put to press for seasonal conventions such as M3. Tano*c has a larger array of albums than most UK labels put together. M-Project run a huge amount of albums out of his studio too. There's simply albums everywhere and they are all-round great releases.
Hardcore in the UK is lacking not because of anime, but because it's run out of the easy ideas and won't risk something out of the ordinary. New people need to be reached. If someone with the label and meane doesn't do it, Hardcore as it has been for the last twenty years will wither and stop. Eventually it will be a genre that exists entirely on the Internet with only occasional small raves for the enthusiasts. It's a grim prediction, but where do we really see Hardcore in 10 years? It's natural that people move on and focus on family or careers, so who exactly will take up the reigns as a big promoter or label owner? I'm struggling to see the candidates, and more and more I can only image Hardcore as a genre celebrated through online radio festivals, YouTube and digital releases.
I went off on one there..
I don't think hardcore will end up just on the internet. The sound is evolving and UK hardcore djs are playing some of the smaller rooms at big festival events like Defqon.
Future of Hardcore apart from the occasional club and large scale events is festivals. EDM and Hardstyle are the two big festival sounds at the moment.
You can see alot of producers realising this and taking alot of infuences from these two genres. People like Darren Styles, Klubfiller, Chris Unkown, Recon, Mark Breeze as well as alot of new names too.
Hardcore Reached it peak in 1996, so who knows what can happen with 20 year music cycles. 2016 possibly???
If what I've seen, have been told by promoters and am reading is anything to go by, Hardcore is continually finding it harder to fill up its rooms. To say that Hardcore will be present in any scale at festivals is ambitious I think. Though I agree that Hardcore SHOULD be looking at festivals more as a way to popularize, as Hardstyle, Drum & Bass and House has.
You make the argument that Hardcore taking influence will help its popularity, but I feel the case is different. I believe that Hardcore is slow to pick up on trending sounds, and that can be quite damaging. The current trend in the UK is deep house and quite a few genres, such as Liquid Drum & Bass, have maneuvered to accommodate elements of that style, but I've not heard any of it in Hardcore. You bring a dated sound to fans, and they'll be more bored of a style that's already been tired out in the mainstream.
Hardcore's peak in 1996 came with a lot of momentum. It's bouncy style propelled it into it's own league after the success of Acid House and later breaks. There were new producers all with new ideas. Fast forward 18 years and you have the same producers all producing there and abouts the same styles of music, and Hardcore is slowing down rather than speeding up. What evidence of a peak in 2016 do you see? You admitted that Hardcore's not as big as it could be, but you wrongly blamed anime and kandi were the reasons why.
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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2014/11/21 : 08:53:30
I would pay good money to see this thread animated in flash.
__________________________________
Triquatra/Bee Trax/Cuttlefish
http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -
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Cyrax
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
623 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2014/11/21 : 09:31:19
Hardcore is not cool that's why we listen to it because listening to uncool music actually makes you cool, which makes you cool , which actually makes you uncool................
I'm lost now
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Captain Triceps
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,184 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2014/11/21 : 11:24:08
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
And there wasn't anyone at that time that was a serious fan of the music that didn't call it "happy hardcore."
I barely knew anyone that called it happy hardcore in the 90s, I certainly didn't, and I know a lot of the big names of the time didn't approve of the name either. It was just 'hardcore'. I only saw the term 'happy hardcore' on CD albums and occasionally for events, but normally if I read or heard about 'happy hardcore' it was either in articles (often derogative) or from people who weren't into the music.
A lot of people, myself included, only started referring to 'happy hardcore' in the 2000s when the new UK hardcore sound was about.
I realise this wasn't the most important part of the topic, but ya know...
__________________________________
Some of my remixes, original tracks and mixes here:
https://soundcloud.com/bradders-tracks-and-remix
https://soundcloud.com/bradders1982
https://soundcloud.com/paulbradley1982
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2014/11/21 : 19:33:05
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax:
Hardcore is not cool that's why we listen to it because listening to uncool music actually makes you cool, which makes you cool , which actually makes you uncool................
I'm lost now
I don't know how the ironic cool thing works either!
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Sulphurik
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
954 posts
Joined: Jan, 2009
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Posted - 2014/11/24 : 20:00:45
The UK Hardcore scene between 2002 to 2008 (roughly) was a great period. Im my opinion that period was the 'coolest' it has ever been. I know around that time many hardcore fans would have said it was too trancey sounding but there was some great ideas from many producers and many different styles from the various producers and labels so for me that was a good time. There were a good number of albums and compilations being released.
The Clubland X-treme Hardcore series for me is one of the main reasons for the way Hardcore has progressed and evolved to what it is today. I think it moved on too quickly and to change the sound taking influences from commercial dance and Clubland related styles.
The style has also become less uplifting and many tracks have taken influences from hard dance. For me I like the uplifting/melodic sound to hardcore with good kick drums and basslines also. Nowadays that is becoming less common. There are still some producers producing some hardcore that I like including Scott Brown but I've actually gone off Scott's music now after hearing some recent tracks.
1996 to 1998 was a great time also. The old skool 'happy' hardcore sound eg. which featured on the Bonkers albums I have been a very big fan of...until now. There are still of course many old skool tracks I'm still and always will be a fan of but I'm not really as interested to listen to the older sound now as I used to be.
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Ph33rViper
Senior Member
Australia
250 posts
Joined: Dec, 2005
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Posted - 2014/11/27 : 06:53:02
Hardcore hasn't been good for years.
I totally agree that 2002 to 2008 was a great time for Hardcore especially with Next Generation and the major labels pumping out track after track and they were very good tracks release after release.
Hardcore having trance elements and being uplifting was fantastic and also most of the tracks weren't as cleesey. surely some of the track were cheesey but they still had that harder sound to them too.
Sadly Hardcore went downhill from 2006. That was the beginning of it. 2006 to 2008 were good years but once that was over I was getting over it.
I have made the switch to Trance since it is much more enjoyable, more variety and much better tracks and so many classics. To make Hardcore good again I would bring bring the good elements of what made Hardcore really good like the old school sound, trance elements, uplifting sound and add some elements of cheese.
Tracks being completely cheesey puts me off completely these days. I like Hardcore to have that decent kick with a harder like sound.
I like mixing hardcore still but I won't return to listening to it full time like I did back in 2005 to 2010.
I havre moved on and I will be sticking to Trance for a long time.
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Is hardcore the uncoolest it has ever been?
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