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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,072 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2016/08/18 : 16:25:39
quote:
Originally posted by trippnface:
it's about people who kept asking him for new music. I presume he justifed the 100 x 100gpb price on what he usually earns for 10 tracks under his Hamilton name. If that's false and is much higher than he actually earns, his joke about "not the same as Seduction" reared it's ugly face and showed that HAM is even more of a money grabber than Seduction ever was.
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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ViolonC
Average Member
Germany
243 posts
Joined: Sep, 2014
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 19:15:34
I have thought about it for a bit and i fail so how this could be anything else than about money or his own ego if it's carried out as expressed. Because artificially limiting something is only done because of those two reasons. Any people who say it adds value, let's guess in what this 'more value' is measured. He's not helping the scene, he's not doing it for the music.
I'm though curious what will happen if the thing leaks. It's to be expected and Ham doesn't need to care about it after he got paid.
Maybe there is a turn-around and all the backers get a golden shiny vinyl or CD or small Statue with their name in and the album is digitally released for all - better even: free. This would actually be awesome. But i guess that wouldn't be enough to make 100 people feel "special" enough to pay 100 bucks.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,072 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 19:43:33
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
I have thought about it for a bit and i fail so how this could be anything else than about money or his own ego if it's carried out as expressed. Because artificially limiting something is only done because of those two reasons. Any people who say it adds value, let's guess in what this 'more value' is measured. He's not helping the scene, he's not doing it for the music.
I'm though curious what will happen if the thing leaks. It's to be expected and Ham doesn't need to care about it after he got paid.
Maybe there is a turn-around and all the backers get a golden shiny vinyl or CD or small Statue with their name in and the album is digitally released for all - better even: free. This would actually be awesome. But i guess that wouldn't be enough to make 100 people feel "special" enough to pay 100 bucks.
Well 4 people bought that 1 million dollar diamond app on apple itunes store. Heck one even DIDNT ASK for refund
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 20:22:11
Luna-C has written a piece about it - http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/posts/4-reasons-you-are-wrong-about-hams-album-idea/
It's good, should read
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soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Vladel
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,514 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 20:43:41
the thing that worries me is if more people start doing it, could be the death of the whole music ownership.
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remain calm do not be alarmed do not attempt to leave the dancefloor
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 20:51:13
I don't get what you mean by that?
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Vladel
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,514 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 21:01:17
Before i explain myself i just wanna say that hardcore is already expensive compared to other genres and it's also a niche genre. We have songs that are never released which is bad enough and 10 quid for a 10 track album is bad enough when a 12 song pop album goes for 7 quid. We also have to wait longer than any other genre for a lot of releases on top of that so here comes Ham and his idea of a ridiculously overpriced exclusive music that a select bunch of people will pay for.
Assuming this goes ahead and Ham makes his money, others will look at this model you can bet and the few idiots that put up with this can contribute to it becoming more the done thing. All of a sudden premium costs would just be acceptable and the majority of people would just be excluded from ownership of anything considered "top tier" in a scene that lets say would be considered "working class" at best. Meanwhile the odd few with more money than sense would slowly be the very cause of the demise of the scene for the sake of exclusivity.
I know it's an extreme example of what could happen but it could. This needed to be laughed off the face of the earth and the enthusiasm by some is frankly scary to me because i love hardcore i want to be able to carry on buying music and clothe my kids at the same time.
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remain calm do not be alarmed do not attempt to leave the dancefloor
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 21:27:40
No point me commenting directly, but f*** me this stirred up a hornets nest.
The take-away is... the genre is clearly doomed. No respect for talent, no idea what is required to entice the same, we're literally saying "the love" is a replacement for any talent, experience, track record and worth. Gargle your CV, the part timers are here.
I really pray you don't all treat your medical needs similarly.
TEN grand to have a time-proven-anthem-production-genre-defining engineer come back on a passion derived whim seems unreasonable? Over six months? That's less than minimum wage.
I literally don't know what to say.
This isn't about "this", at all, but it shows true colours from all corners.
The entitled upstarts begrudging anyone with a fanbase, the listeners who think that someone capable of excelling in any area should dance on their stage for free just because... ****ing hell. I really don't get it at all. Vinyl costs a **** load to manufacture, we're still bordering in the red on "Diversions" and trust me when I say we can sell more than *anyone* in genre. We do shit because we want to, not because it's sane.
****ing hell, kids. If you want to be left with super special forever princesses playing "Come Running" (and ever, amen) and genuinely still think THAT'S worth more money for their genuinely timid squeamish splurting than a verifiable scene legend back from the brink actively offering you an entire album of new shit just for Y'ALL then it's fairly clear where it's all gone wrong.
Just.. what? This scene is ****ed because over and over again it fails to reward talent, effort and results. This is a seemingly simple sideshow, but a very telling one IMO. The creeping death of a genre never felt so sexy, entitled and regal.
CDJay
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Edited by - CDJay on 2016/08/18 21:50:08 |
arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 22:16:11
Vladel, things that are niche tend to cost more money, that's the way of it. I think trying to give some value to the music is a very noble endeavour, HU adds worth by making physical items with nice art, that sets them apart from the rest, this is another way to achieve the same goal.
I'm not entirely sure why a kickstarter for a ten quid CD isn't preferable to him but I do like the idea of the exclusivity thing. He says he'd rather deal direct so I assume it's partly to do with dealing with 100 people is a lot easier than dealing with 1000.
I don't think we'll end up with the future you're predicting, I don't think there's that many artists that would even get the interest at this price point. Without this option, there is no album and Hamilton continues to pump out loads of quality DNB, this gives an opportunity to hear more from him.
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soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 22:19:51
Thumpa's 2 hour tribute in case you've forgotten what Ham does ;)
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soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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SparkzMusic
Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts
Joined: Apr, 2011
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 22:24:36
"time-proven-anthem-production-genre-defining engineer come back on a passion derived whim"
Where's the passion?
You should know more than most that a lot of artists gave up with core partly because they hated the new direction. Another reason I have heard from the people themselves is they don't mind the new scene but technology has surpassed them and they wouldn't know how to make the newer sound.
Ham has done nothing towards the scene for many years. Drum and bass is very different to hardcore so how do you know that this "10k" pot for 6 months of studio work wouldn't be 5 months of getting used to producing the newer hardcore sound and 1 month to get 10 tracks made? Why should the consumer pay someone else's bills while they get used to making a genre of music for a 1 off release?
It wouldn't be half as bad if there were some sort of clips of the style of production that will be done in the 10 tracks. Yet no, there's nothing at all. Surely 1 day in the studio putting down ideas and showcasing what to expect wouldn't break the bank?
Nope. There's nothing. Just "hello there, i'm Ham, I was a big name, you have my word for ?100 you get 10 awesome tracks".
"verifiable scene legend"..... of the past. Ghostbusters was a classic, legendary film of the past. Does that mean any potential remake was going to be just as legendary? Not at all. Same franchise, same genre (sort of), but it turns out it was for most, a load of shit.
"No respect for talent".... I could argue this all day. There is so much talent out there. More than ever. Much of this talent is wasted. Year after year I hear so many tracks by others, that exceed anything else in the scene. Yes the mastering might sound poor, the eq a bit of a mess but the whole ideas around it are phenomenal.
Do they get "respect for talent" ? For most, no. Do they give a shit? Again, for most, no. They work their day jobs and spend a lot, if not most of their free time in the bedroom studio making tracks for even just 1 or 2 people who stumble across it and give them a thumbs up or comment positively about what they have made. Some have had offers of label signings but have turned it down and chosen to just make free tracks for others to enjoy.
"entitled upstarts begrudging anyone with a fanbase" No names but a 1997 scene name i'm not going to mention has a fanbase. Does that mean all people in the fanbase back then are still part of that fanbase now? No way. Many have overplayed the tracks 10000's of times, moved on with the times and will only play the tracks now and then for old times sake. It's not "entitled upstarts" it's "entitled former big names expectations"
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Edited by - SparkzMusic on 2016/08/18 22:56:47 |
CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 22:50:22
That's terrifyingly lucid and sane. If I had seen anything that reasoned my marbles wouldn't have choked as much. Have a respectful nod; I'll respond after sleep. 
CDJay
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SparkzMusic
Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts
Joined: Apr, 2011
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Posted - 2016/08/18 : 23:04:39
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
That's terrifyingly lucid and sane. If I had seen anything that reasoned my marbles wouldn't have choked as much. Have a respectful nod; I'll respond after sleep.
I will. I hint the sarcasm there of course :). Enjoy the hot chocolate and cigar. I will check tomorrow after picking up my giro and topping up the meter.
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Bring Me Round To Love
Junior Member
United Kingdom
116 posts
Joined: Mar, 2016
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Posted - 2016/08/19 : 09:04:28
Really enjoyed the DJ Thumpa 'DJ HAM Tribute mix' apart from the last 15 minutes, namely the 2008/2010 tracks, they sounded watered down compared to the 00/05 output.
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Edited by - Bring Me Round To Love on 2016/08/19 09:11:55 |
arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2016/08/19 : 10:46:01
Sweet! It's happening
DJ Ham Well what can I say? We did it!!! 🙏🙌😱🙌🙏
In only three days, you guys have given me an incredible mandate to write this album!
What an amazing feeling, I honestly keep thinking its some kind of dream and I'll wake up any second!!!!! I am genuinely touched by the faith you have shown me. I have asked a lot from you, a high price for music you've not heard or that has even been written yet, from an artist that has not been active for over 6 years and all purely based on speculation. It's easy to see why some may think it's taking the piss!
But you have proved to me and the rest of the world that music still does have real, tangible value, not for everyone, but for those for whom their passion runs very deep. You have also proved to everyone that said it wouldn't, couldn't or shouldn't happen, that it can!
And wow! I think we just *may* have made history. This idea is not new for sure, but I'm certain it's not been done in this way before. Simply amazing!!!
Just a heads up though... Although I have now have 100 registered, if you missed it, it's still worth registering as its *possible* some will drop out and if they do you could take their spot. This will still be down on the same basis of first come first served so it's fair.
Please believe me though when I say it really is not about the money, that's just purely a practicality of life, like it or not. My motivation has always been for happiness. I'm rich enough already thanks as I have three beautiful children that are my most prized possessions, a house to live in, a car, an iPhone, a few home comforts and I still get to do what I enjoy which is being in my studio day in day out. That's all I need. I don't need much else, only to pay the same bills as everyone else has to!
You ask anyone who knows me, I'm one of the least materialistic people you could meet. I've turned down very well paid tours because I couldn't be away from my children at the time, some things are just more important. I really don't give a **** about money, it's just that the mortgage company, the utility companies and the tax man etc really do give a **** about money and they ask me to pay them and if I don't, they'll force me to pay them. This is no different from anyone else in this crazy world we live in.
All I have done is be completely honest and upfront about what is realistically involved for a project like this to go ahead. Do I like holding my hand out and asking for money, no! To be honest it's ****ing embarrassing!
If they turned off the internet tomorrow and we want back to the old ways where a producer could make an ok living without all this shit I'm all over that! Who's gonna pull the plug for me? 😂😂
But... I can tell you this... 100 people being prepared to dig very deep to support your project just because they want to hear your music? **** me, that's the best ****ing feeling in the world!! 👊😍😭😍👊
A very surprised, amazed & shocked, but also extremely pleased DJ Ham! x
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soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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