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T O P I C R E V I E W
DJ Lawlzy
I'm surprised there's no topic for something this important, but again the vast majority of people registered here are European. You may be under the false assumption that this U.S. legislation doesn't affect you, however it affects everyone who uses the internet.
What will be will be. The world is a ****ed up place.
Be Happy
I've been hearing about this for a while and i'm glad that it's being spoken about more openly because it really does affect everyone who uses the internet because sites like Youtube and other multimedia sites would be shut down or blocked if they have any bit of copyrighted material.
Dys7
The reason it will affect worldwide is because sites will have to start manually screening everything posted there to make sure nothing copyrighted is used.
Basically- Silver will have to choose between hiring a team of monkeys to check every HHC post, or letting all US users lose access to this site.
Dys7
That's actually why I put the censor on my avatar- I'm doing it for every site I'm a part of, in protest.
NekoShuffle
Very much against this. As I said elsewhere, aside from this bill being very heavy handed, it's being backed by Viacom/CBS...who own CNet, and CNet were the distributors of Limewire, Kazaa...all the P2P and even DRM-Removal software and wrote articles comparing the P2P software and the download speed you'd get from each one, and in all the examples they used to prove the download speed...They all used copyrighted material! AND CNet provided LINKS right on their main-page navbar to 'free mp3 download' websites. And what did CBS/Viacom do afterwards? They sued anyone they could catch downloading copyrighted material using that software for millions of dollars - it was an underhanded set-up right from the beginning and NOBODY saw it coming. They gave people the software, gave them the links to the free music, even gave them DRM-removal tools for those tricky DVDs and Blu-ray Disks and basically let the end users walk through a minefield blindfolded knowing full well what would happen.
silver
I'm all for helping the artists and labels get paid but I don't like this bill from the US, basically gives the power to permanently shutdown any site with no chance of any sort of appeal.
If they actually did it like youtube does with copyright complaints that might work, where youtube emails you and gives you a chance to explain what you are doing. But with this, BAM your site, your paypal, everything gone. I really don't like that, it is really a massive big brother situation or heck even China internet.
The fact I've personally received in the past (mistakenly I should add), legal letters from the RIAA and PRS claiming for whatever reason I'm breaking copyright by having a link in the forums to a sound clip that the artist and label themselves posted... I'm not joking either. For a site (happyhardcore.com) that is really basically anti-piracy for hardcore music and tries very hard to support that artists I fear for the power this bill gives the US.
Dys7
There are easy ways to get past the filter block though, so I'm not TOO worried.
silver
quote:Originally posted by Dys7:
There are easy ways to get past the filter block though, so I'm not TOO worried.
Its not just a filter block, for example if the US shut downs the credit cards and paypal accounts and forms of payment for a website the website will not be able to pay for hosting. The site is shutdown.
Triquatra
Now I love americans, but the ruccus that is being made about this is really actually kind of annoying me (i'll start by stating, I am against it btw - though if you read this you'll probably end up thinking otherwise..but i hope my additions make some sense).
in the UK we have the Digital Economy Act which labour rushed through the house right at the end of their final term in power - which is essentially building on the same thing. That was 2 years ago, since then practically nothing has happened because it's been held up in the European Courts (due to a host of legal issues) so whilst we "have" it, we dont actually "have it" at all.
anyway, two things annoy me 01. the way that this effects others outside of the US is a really tenuious link, its based on the fact that we use (some) US websites, which may (or may not) shut down in protest or because of copywrited media, leaving us without..erm, well, to be honest - if a US site shuts down, it will just open up somewhere else (outside the US), by someone else (see a need fill a need etc etc) and on the pretense that websites would begin "screening themselves" so they will show up on search engines in the USA, again very unlikely there's more to the world than just the US. On the ACTA agreements, they claim the because they are international that somehow everyone will have to fall in place with the USA's rules - whereas ACTA tends to be there solely so that there is clarification over what is IP (interlectual property) what it defines and stretches to encompass counterfit goods (clothes etc, which does need an ACTA as that is international). after ACTA its then that individual countries go one step further as to how they deal with it (with acts like SOPA/DE in regards to digital media and others to cover other types of IP)
to summerise there, whilst there is always a chance other countries will follow suit after america leading by example - this is still just a bit of scaremongering to get people on the side that is against the bill
02. when the digital economy act was rushed through Americans didn't bother to come to our assistance, even though all the arguments they are making against SOPA are the same arguments against our DEA.
this leaves me feeling like "**** you America" and thats the first time i've felt like that, ever. lol
in short, despite what i've written, I am against it (as much as anyone who isnt in the primary country can be)
but at the same time I can't help feeling theres a massive bias of information and misinformation out there.
seriously, why couldn't they be bothered to pull this shit off whilst it was us with exactly the same thing under the hammer?? but now they're under the hammer and its going to effect EVERYONE so EVERYONE must come to their aid.
**in addition as I said DE is still being held up by the european courts, so it just show how hard this crap is to impliment anyway - perhaps one of the few things that the european courts have actually saved this country from?**
Triquatra
you (and I) can certainly pick holes in 01 btw - but essential I don't really care about that part, its 02 I actually care about.
bitter? yesh.
silver
quote:well, to be honest - if a US site shuts down, it will just open up somewhere else (outside the US)
I think people are not reading enough, the bill main purpose is to target websites in other countries where the US has no power by shutting down their payment methods, receiving methods, DNS, IP address' you name it... whatever the US can get their hand on.
Triquatra
^ again, these things will just move elsewhere. in many cases the US wouldnt be able to act anyway as they have no jurisdiction in other countrys, even if they give themselves it - which is where SOPA comes in, filtering out Sites which the USA is unable to do anything about.
I'm still more concerned about point #2, much more so, as to me point #2 massively overshadows #1.
I'd rather be discussing that point rather than seemingly arguing for a bill that I'm against.
Archefluxx
whispering
quote:Originally posted by DJ Lawlzy:
I'm surprised there's no topic for something this important
I rather like this quote from the BBC, regarding the recent shut down of MegaUpload
"It begs the question that if you can find and arrest people who are suspected to be involved in piracy using existing laws, then why introduce further regulations which are US-only and potentially damaging."
Archefluxx
Be Happy
quote:Originally posted by Archefluxx:
I can see people doing that if this gets passed.
Dys7
quote:Originally posted by Be Happy:
quote:Originally posted by Archefluxx:
I can see people doing that if this gets passed.
I've honestly seen people say this whole thing is being orchestrated by the Illuminati.
Be Happy
quote:I've honestly seen people say this whole thing is being orchestrated by the Illuminati.
People are always quick to jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon in my opinion, and honestly i'm not surprised that people are claiming that because everything is apparently a conspiracy or has a conspiracy behind it in today's society. Especially in the US because there are tons of people who employ scare tactics and for some reason people willingly believe them.
Lilark
quote:Originally posted by Be Happy:
quote:I've honestly seen people say this whole thing is being orchestrated by the Illuminati.
People are always quick to jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon in my opinion, and honestly i'm not surprised that people are claiming that because everything is apparently a conspiracy or has a conspiracy behind it in today's society. Especially in the US because there are tons of people who employ scare tactics and for some reason people willingly believe them.
Couldn't agree more. People looking for attention spread stupid rumors, it happens. But the ILLUMINATI? That's an interesting one at least xD
Yoko
I live in the States, my take on the matter is this:
Wikileaks, TPB, and similar sites have been an annoyance of the US government and corporate IP owners for years. Wikileaks caught the US government with it's pants down, and TPB has been raided, taken to court, raided again, but is still up and running. Many US, UK, and Japanese companies have filed lawsuits against TPB, but apparently in Sweden what TPB is doing is not technially against the law. (Correct me if I'm wrong here please.) SOPA is an attempt for the US to go beyond it's physical reach and use the Internet as a conveyance to enforce laws that are US based.
Essentially, SOPA would allow the US government to block websites from coming into the US. As some have said before, it would cut off their funding through services like PayPal, ISP's would be forced under penalty of law to block their DNS addresses, and search engines like Google and Yahoo would be forced by law to block the links to their websites.
Sure, it all sounds rather noble at the core, but the way it is written invites abuse by the US government and corporate interests. Let's be honest, if it did pass, or something similar that blocked piracy websites, we all know of "other" places to find material. IRC for example.
Furthermore, the way it is written essentially allows someone to make a false claim against an innocent website. Get enough complaints gathered up, and you have yourself a legal DDoS. Get the picture? It happens on YouTube all the time, someone e-mails YouTube saying that they are the copyright holder and that they would prefer not to file a DMCA complaint, so could they just remove the video and/or sound. The appeal process is a long and audacious one to tell YouTube that you were not breaking any rules or laws in the first place, and most people just give up.
Dys7
Heres an update:
A big hurrah to you!!!!! Weve won for now -- SOPA and PIPA were dropped by Congress today -- the votes weve been scrambling to mobilize against have been cancelled.
The largest online protest in history has fundamentally changed the game. You were heard.
On January 18th, 13 million of us took the time to tell Congress to protect free speech rights on the internet. Hundreds of millions, maybe a billion, people all around the world saw what we did on Wednesday. See the amazing numbers here and tell everyone what you did.
This was unprecedented. Your activism may have changed the way people fight for the public interest and basic rights forever.
The MPAA (the lobby for big movie studios which created these terrible bills) was shocked and seemingly humbled. This was a whole new different game all of a sudden, MPAA Chairman and former Senator Chris Dodd told the New York Times. [PIPA and SOPA were] considered by many to be a slam dunk.
'This is altogether a new effect,' Mr. Dodd said, comparing the online movement to the Arab Spring. He could not remember seeing 'an effort that was moving with this degree of support change this dramatically' in the last four decades, he added."
Lilark
quote:Originally posted by Dys7:
Heres an update:
A big hurrah to you!!!!! Weve won for now -- SOPA and PIPA were dropped by Congress today -- the votes weve been scrambling to mobilize against have been cancelled.
The largest online protest in history has fundamentally changed the game. You were heard.
On January 18th, 13 million of us took the time to tell Congress to protect free speech rights on the internet. Hundreds of millions, maybe a billion, people all around the world saw what we did on Wednesday. See the amazing numbers here and tell everyone what you did.
This was unprecedented. Your activism may have changed the way people fight for the public interest and basic rights forever.
The MPAA (the lobby for big movie studios which created these terrible bills) was shocked and seemingly humbled. This was a whole new different game all of a sudden, MPAA Chairman and former Senator Chris Dodd told the New York Times. [PIPA and SOPA were] considered by many to be a slam dunk.
'This is altogether a new effect,' Mr. Dodd said, comparing the online movement to the Arab Spring. He could not remember seeing 'an effort that was moving with this degree of support change this dramatically' in the last four decades, he added."
For now? What, do they expect it to happen again after they were outvoted that hard? It's stupid of them to even consider a vote, considering that almost-a-billion people obviously don't want it passed. That's not just going to decrease with time.
Triquatra
no? no one coming to our rescue? even know whats going on?
wiki and hotmail going to shut down in protest?
No its not happening directly to America, so I don't suppose any fuss will be made, even if you can make the same arguments and even if its potentially even more of an invasion into the privacy of any user communicating with anyone in the UK....
Dys7
I'd say were doing about as much as Europe did towards SOPA, honestly. We're spreading awareness as we learn about it, but I'm not going to fly overseas and take down the European Parliament. Is there something specific you could recommend I do?
Triquatra
the point is, i'm not talking about sopa! :D
Dys7
I know, you're talking about ACTA. Parliament is voting on it in June.
cruelcore1
ACTA:
Go to a music shop and steal a CD with 12 tracks
> few months jail sentence, or fine of few hundreds of dollars
Illegally download the same album
> few/several years jail sentence, or fine up to 2 million dollars
monitoring millions of people? yeah right! I cant wait to see that, its gonna be hilarious.
Triquatra
^ it works by having the ISP save the details, not a central agency or central database - just lots of little ones. Govenment would then be able to access details they need without a warrent (currently they need a warrent).
this kind of bill wouldn't be able to be brought in in the USA as you are protected by your constitution, of course just like SOPA/PIPA it can still affect you if you interact with anyone in the UK...
course, it hasn't gone anywhere just yet...its only at the debating stage.
it all comes back to the freedom vs privacy thing, no system is perfect but when it comes to freedom and privacy I think the states are very very lucky to have such a strong constitution that is keeping politicans in check who sometimes lose sight of freedom and privacy in place of safety.
cruelcore1
Oh, I thought itd be worse. So, randomizing people hoping to inspect the whole nation within a year? I don't think that'd work. After all, politicians' parties need votes on further elections. Ruining people's privacy might make them less popular.
Promote internet shopping and in several years time much more considerable amount of people will buy legally.
EDIT: What am I saying. People vote for a specific party because their family or friends told them to, and they rarely change attitudes. Not because someone promotes their privacy.
Warnman
Isn't this EU-law? Germany still needs to adopt it as well, but our liberal party thankfully has been blocking it, risking the EU to fine our country.
The best way to safe your contry is to stay away from our European dictatorship.
Triquatra
nope this specific to england, though there is half a chance that it may get blocked at the European court? *shrugs*
Dys7
quote:Originally posted by Triquatra:
^ it works by having the ISP save the details, not a central agency or central database - just lots of little ones. Govenment would then be able to access details they need without a warrent (currently they need a warrent).
this kind of bill wouldn't be able to be brought in in the USA as you are protected by your constitution, of course just like SOPA/PIPA it can still affect you if you interact with anyone in the UK...
course, it hasn't gone anywhere just yet...its only at the debating stage.
it all comes back to the freedom vs privacy thing, no system is perfect but when it comes to freedom and privacy I think the states are very very lucky to have such a strong constitution that is keeping politicans in check who sometimes lose sight of freedom and privacy in place of safety.
Constitution is no good in America, the government is violating it horribly already.
Government currently has the right to access all your private information and wiretap you without your consent or even knowledge.
They also can arrest and detain anyone without a trial for as long as they want. Look up the 2012 NDAA and the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act.
Both go against not only the constitution but the universal declaration of human rights as well.
Dys7
I've literally written essays on why this isn't true. :
We've been violating cruel and unusual punishment since Abu Ghraib, as well. Forget waterboarding, we've chained people completely still for days, had women pee on them, make them wear dog collars and perform tricks, a whole lot of bad stuff.
Triquatra
your constitution is still stronger that what we have over here, which is what i was getting at
jenks
I think sad reality is that constitutions count for very little if they get in the way of something there is serious pressure for.
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